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#1 (permalink) |
Pure Chewing Satisfaction
Location: can i use bbcode [i]here[/i]?
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California voting Republican?
Recalling Gray Davis and voting in a Republican (albeit Schwarzenegger) has got me thinking.... Are the Democrats in danger of losing California's electoral votes for the '04 election? The Republican party has been getting more and more power around the country in recent times, is this just another example of it?
Then again, it's hard for me to think that a vote for Ahhh-nold represents a prospective vote for Bush, even if they are members of the same party. |
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#2 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: San Jose, CA
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If you look at the voting record, the bay area is solidly democratic, the rest of california is not.
For example. here are the 2000 presidential election results: http://www.polidata.org/en2000/ca00pcy.pdf People like to think of the whole state as being full of granola-eaters, but in truth there are huge cities like Sacramento that are not very liberal at all. That said, I think the recall vote was more against Gray Davis than for Arnold. We've had republicans in charge before (remember that guy named Reagan?) and I don't think this recall election is a real sign one way or another. My sense is that California is the same as it has been. Arnold isn't much of a traditional republican, he's positively liberal in a lot of his views, so even if he creates a moderate republican vote in the state, I'm not sure how much of that rubs off on Bush. |
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#3 (permalink) |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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I'd be surprised if California went Republican in the next presidential election. They arn't that smart
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__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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#4 (permalink) |
Huggles, sir?
Location: Seattle
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Schwarezenneger also is not that much of a Republican, heh.
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seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames |
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#6 (permalink) | ||
Cracking the Whip
Location: Sexymama's arms...
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Wall Street Journal Online/OpinionJournal Quote:
Now to be fair, I've done this myself and majority rule is not always a good thing (e.g. slavery), but when it is used blindly to dismiss something like the California election, it becomes a crutch where the intellectually snobish do not have to deal with the issues at hand, i.e. Gray Davis was a terrible governor and a career politician whereas Arnold was percieved as a no nonsense get-something-done solution.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! |
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#7 (permalink) |
Huggles, sir?
Location: Seattle
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Jesse Ventura was also seen as an alternative, but while he said some gutsy (and stupid) things now and then, he did nothing to help Minnesota but invest millions of our dollars into a failure of a light-rail system.
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seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames |
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#8 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: San Jose, CA
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#9 (permalink) |
Upright
Location: Minneapolis
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Bucket of Chicken...mmmmmm.....
Seriously, though, I don't believe for a second that California will turn out for Bush. The only thing that could cause that state to support a reactionary, anti-environmental, oil industry tart like Bush is Chuck Hagel's rigged Diebold voting machines. And though Gray Davis sucked, Enron sucked harder--and for more money. Who was buddy-buddy with Kenny Boy Lay? Oh yeah...W! That will make him popular in Calif. for certain.
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"I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible)." -- Thomas Paine |
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#10 (permalink) | |
Banned
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#12 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: San Jose, CA
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I think the election was definitely a mandate that Californians wanted Gray Davis out of office. I'm not convinced that it was a mandate that people liked Arnold or his political platform. The rubber meets the road now. I'm curious to see how Arnold will repeal the car tax AND balance the budget. He does have some smart people on his team, but he will have to either cut government programs deeply OR raise revenues somehow to balance the CA budget. And remember, fixing things that he talked about, like corruption in the worker's comp system, actually cost you more in the short run. You have to hire consultants and extra staff to restructure the system to eliminate corruption, then slowly the corruption goes away. In the short run, the corruption is still there and you have the added expense of trying to fix it. It's a good goal in the long run, but in the short run it doesn't help him balance the budget. |
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#14 (permalink) | |
‚±‚̈ó˜U‚ª–Ú‚É“ü‚ç‚Ê‚©
Location: College
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Had a more popular democrat not so closely aligned with Davis run -- such as Dianne Feinstein -- the vote may have been much closer. |
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#15 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: San Jose, CA
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#17 (permalink) |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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While I think CA got a nice wakeup call with Grey Davis, I don't see the state swinging to the republican side anytime soon. It would be nice, but to many fringe left wing interests out there.
Lets take NJ for an example, they had a horrible corrupt senator and were going to vote for a republican. The democratic party at the last second put up a new canidate, violated state law, got the state supreme court to support the illegal action and they voted in a new senator who is quite possibly senile, but definately a democrat. If the dems in CA would have had a canidate better then Davis and Bustamonte, the state may not have swiched sides.
__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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#18 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: San Jose, CA
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#19 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: San Jose, CA
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#20 (permalink) | |
Banned
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#21 (permalink) | |
Banned
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#22 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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Now odds are Arnold would still have won, (though possibly not), but he wouldn't have had such an overwhelming vote in favor. |
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#23 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: San Jose, CA
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You said: Quote:
http://vote2003.ss.ca.gov/Returns/summary.html It would be interesting to see how many registered democrats voted against the recall and for Arnie. |
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#24 (permalink) |
Dead Inside
Location: East Coast, USA
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As a democrat looking at this from the other coast, I have no problem with Arnold winning this. I don't see Arnie as a wacko right winger or moron puppet to the christian right conspiracy.
If his new budget proposal comes up flat, we can call another recall, right? |
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#26 (permalink) |
Pasture Bedtime
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My god, one million is not that big for CA. Going by percentage is a much better way to look at the statistics.
I'm a roaring liberal who's pissed as anyone that the Terminator won, but people did not vote for him because "they were dumb." They were pissed off at Davis, they knew who Schwarzenegger was, they liked the sound of his moderate stance on everything more than those of his extremist rivals. |
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#27 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: San Jose, CA
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You, however, did say that not voting for Gray Davis equalled voting republican. I was pointing out that your statement was incorrect. |
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#28 (permalink) |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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The REAL question my friends is does voting for Arnold = voting Republican.
__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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#30 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: San Jose, CA
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The point of this thread was whether arnold winning was a sign of voter sympathies in California changing. Given a 55 to 45 split over the recall, I don't see that being the case. Nearly as many people voted against the recall (3.8 million) as voted for Arnold (4 million). I've said all I have to say on this thread. |
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#31 (permalink) |
Banned
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No I said a vote against Davis and those associated with him, ei the Democratic Party was a vote for the Rebublican Party. If it wasnt, than a third party would have one. Why are you so determined to not see that a democrat was so lousy in his job that the state kicked him out and placed a republican to fix his errors?
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#32 (permalink) |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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But the number who voted for Arnold AND McClintoc was something like 60%. Thats the number that scares the crap out of the DNC, not Arnolds number by itself.
__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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#33 (permalink) | |
Huggles, sir?
Location: Seattle
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__________________
seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames |
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#34 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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Mmmmm I think I got off topic ![]() |
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#35 (permalink) | |
Huzzah for Welcome Week, Much beer shall I imbibe.
Location: UCSB
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__________________
I'm leaving for the University of California: Santa Barbara in 5 hours, give me your best college advice - things I need, good ideas, bad ideas, nooky, ect. Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum: "Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt." |
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#36 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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#37 (permalink) | |
Huzzah for Welcome Week, Much beer shall I imbibe.
Location: UCSB
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Quote:
__________________
I'm leaving for the University of California: Santa Barbara in 5 hours, give me your best college advice - things I need, good ideas, bad ideas, nooky, ect. Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum: "Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt." |
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#38 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: San Jose, CA
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http://www.enquirer.com/editions/200...oc_amos26.html |
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#39 (permalink) |
Upright
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Ill echo that I don't think the success of the Californian recall is a vote for the Republican mandate, especially not the the Bush flavor of Republican. As successful as the Republican party is there seems to be some party fragmentation: You have your Neo-cons (Bush style big gov, "moral," interventionalist), Socially liberal / fiscally consvervative (Ah-hold) and then the Old school that still lurk somewhere (Nixon/Eisenhower types). While potentially I think California could vote republican if the reps ran a social liberal; however, there is NO WAY the south will allow that kind of hijacking of the good ol' Repbulican party. I still see California voting dems, pretty much no matter what (Everyone remember that Diane Feinstein, like the most ardently liberal member of congress, is still the most popular politician in Cali).
As for this comment: "The president, after all, is a graduate of both Yale and Harvard, and the governor-elect is a self-made immigrant businessman. It is possible for very intelligent people not to be snobs about it, not to adopt the pose of an "intellectual," and that would seem to describe both Bush and Schwarzenegger." While I dont want to sound like the "liberal intelligencia" I know Im going to: Bush didnt exactly earn those Ivy degrees like most of us would have liked him to have. Not only did his aristocratic background get him into Andover (a feeder high school for Ivys), but furthermore, his lineage basically openned the door for him to Yale (I believe the previous two generations of Bushes also went to Yale...and Andover). The fact he pulled C's is also a little disheartening. As for Harvard Business school, it admits pretty much on a "how powerful is your name basis" while not entirely, it definitely helps to bring that to the table for, as they describe, "to give a class of future business leaders with a diverse background of experience." Not to say that Bush is stupid though, he is an incredibly brilliant politician with excellent person to person people skills, but my opinion is that he represents the old money feeding candidates into the poilitical system. (To be fair, The Gore's are another family with this trait). If you guys need me to rebuke the Arnold characterization, I will, but I think that one is pretty easy to figure out. T PS Arnie is also married to a Kennedy...Strange bedfellows? Last edited by takrupp; 10-24-2003 at 06:30 AM.. |
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california, republican, voting |
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