"Wolverines Pack Fudge" - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

seretogis · 10-10-2003, 03:31 PM

This is another example of hypersensitive "journalists"-gone-wild over a non-issue. A friend of mine is hosting a site for anti-Michigan T-shirts which have a semi-sexual joke made towards Michigan Wolverines.

The site: http://oldschool.inf7.net/

Quote:

Wolverines Pack Fudge
These shirts are great for wearing during sports events or sitting around in your leisure time. Good for cracking up a friend!

Please refer to our disclaimer if you have any concerns.

Please know these shirts are not meant to discriminate against ANYBODY except people who like U of M.

We are selling the shirts for 10 bucks a piece. What a freekin' great deal!

The disclaimer linked on the site:

Quote:

Disclaimer

What our shirts mean:

"Wolverines Pack Fudge" means one thing, and one thing only: U of M likes to stick things in their bums. Our shirts DO NOT target any specific sexual orientation what so ever. Heterosexuals, bisexuals, lesbians, transexuals, and homosexuals can all equally pack plenty of fudge if they choose. Please do not take these shirts the wrong way.

What we want:

We want all students, no matter what sexual orientation, to unite against U of M. Our only intention is to make MSU people laugh, and U of M people go Grrrrr. Nothing more, nothing less. These shirts are not meant to divide social groups, but to unite our student body as a whole. Please help us unite!

Where we stand:

We are seniors at MSU trying to install spirit into the community. We are NOT trying to discriminate against any type of person, except people who like U of M of course.

Our beef:

We have had a few students express their distaste for these shirts. These students have gone to great measures to have the shirts banned from campus and selling of the shirts made illegal. To these students, please understand that we mean no harm, and we are sorry if you infer something that we are totally against: discrimination against any specific social group. We are lovers, not haters.

PS - Besides U of M people... We don't love them so much.

Thanks again!

<3 Your Favorite MSU Seniors

And, finally, the article by the hypersensitive Journalism major which will soon be piping their drivel into our newspapers: http://www.statenews.com/article.phtml?pk=19837

Quote:

Students angered by sexually explicit shirt flyers

By JOSEPH MONTES

The State News

Student leaders are angered at a sexually explicit flyer distributed on campus Tuesday night.

The flyer, which bore the phrase "Wolverines Pack Fudge" above an explicit drawing, is an advertisement for shirts being sold with the same drawing. The shirts are being distributed through a Web site run by telecommunication, information studies and media senior Joseph Doss, who could not be reached for comment Thursday.

Rae Marcus, spokesperson for Alliance of Lesbian-Bi-Gay-Transgender and Straight Ally students, said Wednesday the flyer had extra impact since this week is National Coming Out Days on campus.

"It's an outrage," Marcus said. "During this time, with National Coming Out Days, people come out and express sex and are proud of who they are."

In a statement on his Web site, Doss said he was using his Web space to help friends sell the shirt. He said he expected a controversy to arise but would not take the site down. Doss said the cartoon drawings were sexless and did not have an inference of homosexuality.

"I have always never cared about someone's sexual preference and I shall keep not caring about what people think about these T-shirts," Doss said on his Web site.

RHA spokesman Brian Winters said his organization condemned the flyer at its weekly meeting last night. Winters said he ripped them down when he saw them.

"I thought it was offensive to anyone of the homosexual persuasion, and if someone is sensitive to this sort of thing, then it offends me," Winters said.

Winters said he didn't know if any legal action would be taken against the creators of the shirt. He said RHA would discuss what its next action should be.

Marcus said the Alliance had yet to meet as a group and discuss how it would react to the flyer. A police report had not been filed Thursday afternoon.

After reading Doss's web site, Winters said he could not understand how Doss could think people wouldn't find the flyer offensive.

"He thinks this is funny and people are going to buy these shirts, but he is making a very ignorant joke," Winters said.

Lyman Briggs no-preference sophomore Vinny Pederson said he found the flyer under his door in East Holmes.

"It isn't the way to go about showing a rivalry," Pederson said. "It is discriminating against homosexuals to say everyone here thinks homosexuality is wrong."

Zoology sophomore Sarah Hay said she didn't see a problem with the flyer's statement. She said students were mature and old enough to not be offended.

"It's college and anything goes," Hay said. "Students shouldn't be upset. A lot of students said it was really funny. Most people were amused by it."

Alliance spokesperson Marcus said the flyers put out a powerful message that could negatively affect society.

"Words lead to hate crimes," Marcus said. "I wonder if this person will learn a lesson. "You can't oppress people."

Ustwo · 10-10-2003, 04:28 PM

I hate U of M too.

sixate · 10-10-2003, 05:50 PM

I'm a Michigan fan and I think it's funny.
People need to learn how to deal with life. It's really sad to see just how easy it is to offend people.

HarmlessRabbit · 10-10-2003, 06:34 PM

I'm an Ohio State alumni... let's see, how did it go:

Hail to those motherfuckers,
Hail to those big cocksuckers,
Hail, Hail to Michigan
The cesspool of the world.

I'd just like to say that I 100% agree with Sixate.

Phaenx · 10-10-2003, 10:27 PM

Then it's agreed. Michigan sucks.

filtherton · 10-10-2003, 10:58 PM

I've got an idea for a new shirt.
Michigan: lazy like negroes.

No no, don't get offended.
We don't mean for that.
Why are you getting offended?
That's not what we meant, you're just misinterpreting what we mean.

seretogis · 10-10-2003, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by filtherton
I've got an idea for a new shirt.
Michigan: lazy like negroes.

No no, don't get offended.
We don't mean for that.
Why are you getting offended?
That's not what we meant, you're just misinterpreting what we mean.

That's not even funny...

...everyone knows it's Mexicans that are lazy, not negroes!

Seriously though, you have to jump to wild conclusions to assume that "Wolverines Pack Fudge" is in any way an offensive comment towards homosexuals. The only people who are offended are those to whom it is a job to become offended.

Lebell · 10-11-2003, 12:05 AM

Hmmm,

I'm actually going to disagree with you on this one, Seretogis.

While they put a "disclaimer" on their site, there is only one interpretation I've EVER heard for 'fudgepacker' and that is as a derogatory for homosexuals, refering to the practice of anal sex.

Had there been another interpretation in common use, I could see the PC argument, but I don't see it possible here.

I think it means exactly what we are supposed to think it means: U of M are a bunch of "fags".

filtherton · 10-11-2003, 12:25 AM

Ooooh, way to be controversial seretogis. You knew people would be offended, that is why you posted it here. So you could tell people that they overreact. Whoopdeedoo!
If it is so nonoffensive, why does it need a disclaimer?
It IS offensive when a bunch of people who are most likely straight use a phrase that straight people use to call someone a faggot to diss their rivals.
I know, its a "wild" conclusion i'm jumping to, but it's probably not a stretch to imagine a football player beating the hell out of someone for being a "fudge packer" because that actually happens.

Quote:

The only people who are offended are those to whom it is a job to become offended.

wtf is that supposed to mean? Because seretogis isn't offended, anyone who is offended is only offended because they are being put up to it?

Quote:

I'm a Michigan fan and I think it's funny.
People need to learn how to deal with life. It's really sad to see just how easy it is to offend people.

Sixate, it seems like you get offended when babies smile. You get offended by toddlers with leashes and homeless people getting fed. Who are you to denounce anyone for getting offended?

sixate · 10-11-2003, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by filtherton
Sixate, it seems like you get offended when babies smile. You get offended by toddlers with leashes and homeless people getting fed. Who are you to denounce anyone for getting offended?

Just shows how little you know me. I disagree and get pissed about things... NEVER offended. There is a huge difference.

HarmlessRabbit · 10-11-2003, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by filtherton
Ooooh, way to be controversial seretogis. You knew people would be offended, that is why you posted it here. So you could tell people that they overreact. Whoopdeedoo!
If it is so nonoffensive, why does it need a disclaimer?
It IS offensive when a bunch of people who are most likely straight use a phrase that straight people use to call someone a faggot to diss their rivals.
I know, its a "wild" conclusion i'm jumping to, but it's probably not a stretch to imagine a football player beating the hell out of someone for being a "fudge packer" because that actually happens.

Fag.

Seriously, you need context here. This isn't, as far as I can tell, an official student group, with any official endorsement. It's a bunch of guys making a t-shirt. Walk into a Spencer's gift shop, any "head" shop, or surf tshirtsthatsuck.com and see what you find there.

For example, look at this message:

http://www.thoseshirts.com/diversityfront.html

OMG THEY ARE MAKING FUN OF DIVERSITY. ANYONE WEARING THIS HATES ANYONE NON-WHITE. LET'S START A BOYCOTT!

Um, no. It's funny to a certain crowd. I would be offended if someone was wearing that shirt to work, but a bunch of people wearing "Wolverines Pack Fudge" shirts to a game aren't making a statement about gays.

I'm a liberal, but I really hate the use of "hate speech" to apply to ANY statement about a protected class. It stifles discussion.

OMG, Sixate and I agree. Pigs are flying! Hell has frozen over!

Food Eater Lad · 10-11-2003, 08:25 AM

I just bought the "celebrate Diverstity" shirt.

seretogis · 10-11-2003, 10:56 AM

Even if the shirt said "U of M are a bunch of fags", I think it would be a huge leap to assume that it is "hate speech" towards homosexuals, and not just a jab at Michigan students of all sexual persuasions. If you call someone a "retard", you are insulting that one person -- not every mentally handicapped person in the world. Every group (even rich white boys) can have the negative aspects of it used to be insulting.

By the way, the disclaimer was not on the site from the start.

HarmlessRabbit · 10-11-2003, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by seretogis
Even if the shirt said "U of M are a bunch of fags", I think it would be a huge leap to assume that it is "hate speech" towards homosexuals, and not just a jab at Michigan students of all sexual persuasions. If you call someone a "retard", you are insulting that one person -- not every mentally handicapped person in the world. Every group (even rich white boys) can have the negative aspects of it used to be insulting.

And now I'm agreeing with Seretogis. Wow.

Exactly what I was trying to say. Saying the word "fag" or "cocksucker" doesn't equal "hate speech". It may be "dumb" speech or "juvenile" speech, but not hate.

I grew up in a racist family. My mom and dad both talked about "Nigger this" and "Nigger that". It's a fact, nothing I can do to change history. Some of that rubbed off on me, and it wasn't until I got to college that my eyes got opened. I think these college students are learning an important lesson about what they can say and do in public versus in private. In the same way, Abercrombie & Fitch learned a lesson a few years ago when they put out a t-shirt that offended asians. Did I think A&F was practicing "hate speech"? No, they were just being a bit tactless.

Jumping to say "hate speech" stifles productive discussion.

filtherton · 10-11-2003, 11:54 AM

I don't think it is hate speech and i never said it was hate speech rabbit. As far as i can tell you were the one who brought that pretty little phrase up. So quit "stifling the productive discussion"!
I said it was offensive. Just because none of you are offended doesn't mean that something is automatically inoffensive or not worthy of offense or that people who are offended are overly sensitive.

These shirts seem to be have the message that The U of M are a bunch of fags. Not hate speech, but how could you possibly say that that shouldn't be considered offensive?
These shirts only serve to perpetuate the connection between homosexuality and derision. It's childish. How many of you straight people use "fag" as a casual insult? How many of you white people use "nigger" as a casual insult?

These shirts are the definition of inconsiderate childishness.

HarmlessRabbit · 10-11-2003, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by filtherton
I don't think it is hate speech and i never said it was hate speech rabbit. As far as i can tell you were the one who brought that pretty little phrase up. So quit "stifling the productive discussion"!

Um no, the ARTICLE brought up hate speech. Scroll up, you homo.

I didn't say it wasn't offensive. Last I checked, there was no constitutional right not to be offended.

filtherton · 10-11-2003, 12:05 PM

Maybe, i just read badly, but where exactly?

Lebell · 10-11-2003, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HarmlessRabbit
Um, no. It's funny to a certain crowd. I would be offended if someone was wearing that shirt to work, but a bunch of people wearing "Wolverines Pack Fudge" shirts to a game aren't making a statement about gays.
[/B]

Interesting, because I bought that specific t-shirt to irritate anyone silly enough to be irritated by it

Anyway, Hell really must have frozen over, because I agree with you both.

To get worked up over this t-shirt is silly.

HarmlessRabbit · 10-11-2003, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by filtherton
Maybe, i just read badly, but where exactly?

<b>"Words lead to hate crimes," Marcus said. "I wonder if this person will learn a lesson. "You can't oppress people."</b>

Other quotes in the article imply that these guys were wrong for making the shirt because people were OFFENDED.

filtherton · 10-11-2003, 12:31 PM

Words DO lead to hate crimes. Think about that the next time some jock is screaming fag in your ear while he is kicking you in the stomach.

Nobody ever says anything to the effect that "these shirts are hate speech". Nobody ever says anything to the effect that "The people who are selling these shirts are commiting hate speech"
Joseph Doss is either a moron or a marketing major.

Sledge · 10-11-2003, 01:18 PM

Just to clarify, it's not "just words" in this particular example. Click on the link. There's a nice picture on the shirt that removes all ambiguity:

With that in mind, we can ask a purer question: Should a comment that denigrates a particular subculture be censored?

Personally, I think it depends on the subculture. Homosexuals are still dealing with too much bigotry, and subjected to too many stereotypes, for this kind of thing to be okay. I'm all for edgy humor in my personal life. I've made enemies because of it. But there are some things that you don't joke about because the issues they're connected to are still too fucked up.

HarmlessRabbit · 10-11-2003, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by filtherton
[B] Words DO lead to hate crimes. Think about that the next time some jock is screaming fag in your ear while he is kicking you in the stomach.

Oh please. Censorship doesn't change anyone's belief. Just because the jock doesn't say "fag" out loud doesn't mean that he doesn't think it. And banning him from saying it certainly isn't going to make him rethink whether to kick your ass or not. Think about that while THE MIND CONTROL LASERS OF THE FUTURE ARE REPORTING YOU FOR THOUGHT CRIME.

http://www.aclu.org/FreeSpeech/FreeS...m?ID=9004&c=87

<b>Where racist, sexist and homophobic speech is concerned, the ACLU believes that more speech -- not less -- is the best revenge. This is particularly true at universities, whose mission is to facilitate learning through open debate and study, and to enlighten. Speech codes are not the way to go on campuses, where all views are entitled to be heard, explored, supported or refuted. Besides, when hate is out in the open, people can see the problem. Then they can organize effectively to counter bad attitudes, possibly change them, and forge solidarity against the forces of intolerance.

College administrators may find speech codes attractive as a quick fix, but as one critic put it: "Verbal purity is not social change." Codes that punish bigoted speech treat only the symptom: The problem itself is bigotry. The ACLU believes that instead of opting for gestures that only appear to cure the disease, universities have to do the hard work of recruitment to increase faculty and student diversity; counseling to raise awareness about bigotry and its history, and changing curricula to institutionalize more inclusive approaches to all subject matter. </b>

seretogis · 10-11-2003, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sledge
Just to clarify, it's not "just words" in this particular example. Click on the link. There's a nice picture on the shirt that removes all ambiguity:

You'll also note that the wolverines in the picture are sexless, nor is there any anal sex being performed between two males.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sledge
With that in mind, we can ask a purer question: Should a comment that denigrates a particular subculture be censored?

Absolutely not. I am willing to put up with as much "fag-hating" talk as necessary to be able to speak my mind about white-trash-"gangstas" or cake-eaters that have never had a job in their lives.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sledge
Personally, I think it depends on the subculture.

I disagree -- once you start favoring one subculture over another, you start down a slippery slope of elitism and political correctness.

Sledge · 10-11-2003, 02:37 PM

It takes a certain amount of willful blindness to not recognize the anti-homosexual overtones in that picture, especially when paired with the words. Yeah, maybe they're just playing leapfrog.

I think you have a good point, seretogis, when you say that censoring some and not others raises a multitude of problems. And the ACLU defends that argument very well. I'm forced to agree - this shirt shouldn't be censored, no.

But I don't think it's unreasonable or hypersensitive to be offended by it. In fact, I think you kind of have to be kind of an asshole to be fully aware of the implications of "Wolverines Pack Fudge" and still use it as though it doesn't insult homosexuals. Whether or not the law

Phaenx · 10-11-2003, 06:27 PM

I should buy one, and exercise my right to offend everyone. Then laugh for a week until I slip into a coma.

chavos · 10-11-2003, 08:26 PM

i wouldn't buy one...and i don't think they're in good taste, but banning them is just silly, and un-american.

filtherton · 10-12-2003, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Oh please. Censorship doesn't change anyone's belief. Just because the jock doesn't say "fag" out loud doesn't mean that he doesn't think it. And banning him from saying it certainly isn't going to make him rethink whether to kick your ass or not. Think about that while THE MIND CONTROL LASERS OF THE FUTURE ARE REPORTING YOU FOR THOUGHT CRIME.

Who is calling for censorship? Am i? Am i just not aware of the fact that i am? How about i think about that while YOU PUT WORDS INTO MY MOUTH AND IMAGINE MORE HATECRIME ACCUSATIONS. I don't care if some ass wants to wear a shirt like that. Better someone volunteers the fact that they're an ass sooner than later. What i'm saying is that none of you should delude yourlselves with the idea that anyone who would get offended by these shirts is overreacting.

I haven't read anything on here about anyone on here say that they want these fools shut down, just that they are selling offensive products. Why is that hard to understand?

HarmlessRabbit · 10-12-2003, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by filtherton
Who is calling for censorship? Am i? Am i just not aware of the fact that i am? How about i think about that while YOU PUT WORDS INTO MY MOUTH AND IMAGINE MORE HATECRIME ACCUSATIONS. I don't care if some ass wants to wear a shirt like that. Better someone volunteers the fact that they're an ass sooner than later. What i'm saying is that none of you should delude yourlselves with the idea that anyone who would get offended by these shirts is overreacting.

I haven't read anything on here about anyone on here say that they want these fools shut down, just that they are selling offensive products. Why is that hard to understand?

Ok. The shirts are offensive. If that's all we're discussing, I guess we're done.

debaser · 10-12-2003, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by filtherton
Words DO lead to hate crimes. Think about that the next time some jock is screaming fag in your ear while he is kicking you in the stomach.

Needs less hypocrisy.

filtherton · 10-12-2003, 10:46 AM

^^^ needs to elaborate.

debaser · 10-12-2003, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sledge
It takes a certain amount of willful blindness to not recognize the anti-homosexual overtones in that picture, especially when paired with the words. Yeah, maybe they're just playing leapfrog.

I see two sexually ambiguous cartoon creatures, one of whom is inserting an object into the others rectum. Only your personal predjudices would identify such a picture with homosexuality.

debaser · 10-12-2003, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by filtherton
^^^ needs to elaborate.

Quote:

Originally posted by filtherton
Words DO lead to hate crimes. Think about that the next time some jock is screaming fag in your ear while he is kicking you in the stomach.

filtherton · 10-12-2003, 04:09 PM

Quote:

I see two sexually ambiguous cartoon creatures, one of whom is inserting an object into the others rectum. Only your personal predjudices would identify such a picture with homosexuality.

Your personal prejudices, guided by the phrase "fudge packer" which some of you may be aware became popular as a derogatory term for homosexuals.

Quote:

quote:
Originally posted by filtherton
Words DO lead to hate crimes. Think about that the next time some jock is screaming fag in your ear while he is kicking you in the stomach.

Yep, you caught me trying to incite a hate crime against the peripheral and oft abused subgroup known as jocks. It was innapropriate and should have been phrased:
Words DO lead to hate crimes. Think about that the next time some PERSON is screaming fag in your ear while s/he is kicking you in the stomach.
Better?

debaser · 10-12-2003, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by filtherton

Better?

Yes.

Conclamo Ludus · 10-13-2003, 02:02 PM

Go Blue!

I'm not offended. I think its stupid, but I'm certainly not offended. Its obvious what they are saying, but so be it. If people want to wear something stupid, let them. Instead of getting offended, maybe you should smile knowing that their stupidity will probably be their undoing someday.

Go Blue!

The_Dude · 10-13-2003, 02:50 PM

lol, that's funny shirt indeed.

10-10-2003, 04:28 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	I hate U of M too. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

10-10-2003, 10:27 PM	#5 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	Then it's agreed. Michigan sucks. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

10-11-2003, 12:05 AM	#8 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Hmmm, I'm actually going to disagree with you on this one, Seretogis. While they put a "disclaimer" on their site, there is only one interpretation I've EVER heard for 'fudgepacker' and that is as a derogatory for homosexuals, refering to the practice of anal sex. Had there been another interpretation in common use, I could see the PC argument, but I don't see it possible here. I think it means exactly what we are supposed to think it means: U of M are a bunch of "fags". __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

10-11-2003, 10:56 AM	#13 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	Even if the shirt said "U of M are a bunch of fags", I think it would be a huge leap to assume that it is "hate speech" towards homosexuals, and not just a jab at Michigan students of all sexual persuasions. If you call someone a "retard", you are insulting that one person -- not every mentally handicapped person in the world. Every group (even rich white boys) can have the negative aspects of it used to be insulting. By the way, the disclaimer was not on the site from the start. __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

10-11-2003, 01:18 PM	#21 (permalink)
Sledge Pasture Bedtime	Just to clarify, it's not "just words" in this particular example. Click on the link. There's a nice picture on the shirt that removes all ambiguity: With that in mind, we can ask a purer question: Should a comment that denigrates a particular subculture be censored? Personally, I think it depends on the subculture. Homosexuals are still dealing with too much bigotry, and subjected to too many stereotypes, for this kind of thing to be okay. I'm all for edgy humor in my personal life. I've made enemies because of it. But there are some things that you don't joke about because the issues they're connected to are still too fucked up. Last edited by Sledge; 10-11-2003 at 01:21 PM..

10-10-2003, 05:50 PM	#3 (permalink)
sixate Registered User Location: Somewhere in Ohio	I'm a Michigan fan and I think it's funny. People need to learn how to deal with life. It's really sad to see just how easy it is to offend people.

10-10-2003, 06:34 PM	#4 (permalink)
HarmlessRabbit Junkie Location: San Jose, CA	I'm an Ohio State alumni... let's see, how did it go: Hail to those motherfuckers, Hail to those big cocksuckers, Hail, Hail to Michigan The cesspool of the world. I'd just like to say that I 100% agree with Sixate.

10-10-2003, 10:58 PM	#6 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I've got an idea for a new shirt. Michigan: lazy like negroes. No no, don't get offended. We don't mean for that. Why are you getting offended? That's not what we meant, you're just misinterpreting what we mean.

10-11-2003, 08:25 AM	#12 (permalink)
Food Eater Lad Banned	I just bought the "celebrate Diverstity" shirt.

10-11-2003, 11:54 AM	#15 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I don't think it is hate speech and i never said it was hate speech rabbit. As far as i can tell you were the one who brought that pretty little phrase up. So quit "stifling the productive discussion"! I said it was offensive. Just because none of you are offended doesn't mean that something is automatically inoffensive or not worthy of offense or that people who are offended are overly sensitive. These shirts seem to be have the message that The U of M are a bunch of fags. Not hate speech, but how could you possibly say that that shouldn't be considered offensive? These shirts only serve to perpetuate the connection between homosexuality and derision. It's childish. How many of you straight people use "fag" as a casual insult? How many of you white people use "nigger" as a casual insult? These shirts are the definition of inconsiderate childishness.

10-11-2003, 12:05 PM	#17 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Maybe, i just read badly, but where exactly?

10-11-2003, 12:31 PM	#20 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Words DO lead to hate crimes. Think about that the next time some jock is screaming fag in your ear while he is kicking you in the stomach. Nobody ever says anything to the effect that "these shirts are hate speech". Nobody ever says anything to the effect that "The people who are selling these shirts are commiting hate speech" Joseph Doss is either a moron or a marketing major.

10-11-2003, 02:37 PM	#24 (permalink)
Sledge Pasture Bedtime	It takes a certain amount of willful blindness to not recognize the anti-homosexual overtones in that picture, especially when paired with the words. Yeah, maybe they're just playing leapfrog. I think you have a good point, seretogis, when you say that censoring some and not others raises a multitude of problems. And the ACLU defends that argument very well. I'm forced to agree - this shirt shouldn't be censored, no. But I don't think it's unreasonable or hypersensitive to be offended by it. In fact, I think you kind of have to be kind of an asshole to be fully aware of the implications of "Wolverines Pack Fudge" and still use it as though it doesn't insult homosexuals. Whether or not the law

10-11-2003, 06:27 PM	#25 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	I should buy one, and exercise my right to offend everyone. Then laugh for a week until I slip into a coma. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

10-11-2003, 08:26 PM	#26 (permalink)
chavos Banned Location: St. Paul, MN	i wouldn't buy one...and i don't think they're in good taste, but banning them is just silly, and un-american.

10-12-2003, 10:46 AM	#30 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	^^^ needs to elaborate.

10-13-2003, 02:02 PM	#35 (permalink)
Conclamo Ludus Modern Man Location: West Michigan	Go Blue! I'm not offended. I think its stupid, but I'm certainly not offended. Its obvious what they are saying, but so be it. If people want to wear something stupid, let them. Instead of getting offended, maybe you should smile knowing that their stupidity will probably be their undoing someday. Go Blue! __________________ Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold. -Son House, Death Letter Blues

10-13-2003, 02:50 PM	#36 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	lol, that's funny shirt indeed. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal