"Wolverines Pack Fudge"
 

This is another example of hypersensitive "journalists"-gone-wild over a non-issue. A friend of mine is hosting a site for anti-Michigan T-shirts which have a semi-sexual joke made towards Michigan Wolverines.

The site: http://oldschool.inf7.net/

The disclaimer linked on the site:

And, finally, the article by the hypersensitive Journalism major which will soon be piping their drivel into our newspapers: http://www.statenews.com/article.phtml?pk=19837

I hate U of M too.

I'm a Michigan fan and I think it's funny.
People need to learn how to deal with life. It's really sad to see just how easy it is to offend people.

I'm an Ohio State alumni... let's see, how did it go:

Hail to those motherfuckers,
Hail to those big cocksuckers,
Hail, Hail to Michigan
The cesspool of the world.

:)

I'd just like to say that I 100% agree with Sixate.

Then it's agreed. Michigan sucks.

I've got an idea for a new shirt.
Michigan: lazy like negroes.

No no, don't get offended.
We don't mean for that.
Why are you getting offended?
That's not what we meant, you're just misinterpreting what we mean.

That's not even funny...

...everyone knows it's Mexicans that are lazy, not negroes! ;)

Seriously though, you have to jump to wild conclusions to assume that "Wolverines Pack Fudge" is in any way an offensive comment towards homosexuals. The only people who are offended are those to whom it is a job to become offended.

Hmmm,

I'm actually going to disagree with you on this one, Seretogis.

While they put a "disclaimer" on their site, there is only one interpretation I've EVER heard for 'fudgepacker' and that is as a derogatory for homosexuals, refering to the practice of anal sex.

Had there been another interpretation in common use, I could see the PC argument, but I don't see it possible here.

I think it means exactly what we are supposed to think it means: U of M are a bunch of "fags".

Ooooh, way to be controversial seretogis. You knew people would be offended, that is why you posted it here. So you could tell people that they overreact. Whoopdeedoo!
If it is so nonoffensive, why does it need a disclaimer?
It IS offensive when a bunch of people who are most likely straight use a phrase that straight people use to call someone a faggot to diss their rivals.
I know, its a "wild" conclusion i'm jumping to, but it's probably not a stretch to imagine a football player beating the hell out of someone for being a "fudge packer" because that actually happens.

wtf is that supposed to mean? Because seretogis isn't offended, anyone who is offended is only offended because they are being put up to it?

Sixate, it seems like you get offended when babies smile. You get offended by toddlers with leashes and homeless people getting fed. Who are you to denounce anyone for getting offended?

Just shows how little you know me. I disagree and get pissed about things... NEVER offended. There is a huge difference.

Fag.

:)

Seriously, you need context here. This isn't, as far as I can tell, an official student group, with any official endorsement. It's a bunch of guys making a t-shirt. Walk into a Spencer's gift shop, any "head" shop, or surf tshirtsthatsuck.com and see what you find there.

For example, look at this message:

http://www.thoseshirts.com/diversityfront.html

OMG THEY ARE MAKING FUN OF DIVERSITY. ANYONE WEARING THIS HATES ANYONE NON-WHITE. LET'S START A BOYCOTT!

Um, no. It's funny to a certain crowd. I would be offended if someone was wearing that shirt to work, but a bunch of people wearing "Wolverines Pack Fudge" shirts to a game aren't making a statement about gays.

I'm a liberal, but I really hate the use of "hate speech" to apply to ANY statement about a protected class. It stifles discussion.

OMG, Sixate and I agree. Pigs are flying! Hell has frozen over! :)

I just bought the "celebrate Diverstity" shirt.

Even if the shirt said "U of M are a bunch of fags", I think it would be a huge leap to assume that it is "hate speech" towards homosexuals, and not just a jab at Michigan students of all sexual persuasions. If you call someone a "retard", you are insulting that one person -- not every mentally handicapped person in the world. Every group (even rich white boys) can have the negative aspects of it used to be insulting.

By the way, the disclaimer was not on the site from the start.

And now I'm agreeing with Seretogis. Wow. :)

Exactly what I was trying to say. Saying the word "fag" or "cocksucker" doesn't equal "hate speech". It may be "dumb" speech or "juvenile" speech, but not hate.

I grew up in a racist family. My mom and dad both talked about "Nigger this" and "Nigger that". It's a fact, nothing I can do to change history. Some of that rubbed off on me, and it wasn't until I got to college that my eyes got opened. I think these college students are learning an important lesson about what they can say and do in public versus in private. In the same way, Abercrombie & Fitch learned a lesson a few years ago when they put out a t-shirt that offended asians. Did I think A&F was practicing "hate speech"? No, they were just being a bit tactless.

Jumping to say "hate speech" stifles productive discussion.

I don't think it is hate speech and i never said it was hate speech rabbit. As far as i can tell you were the one who brought that pretty little phrase up. So quit "stifling the productive discussion"!
I said it was offensive. Just because none of you are offended doesn't mean that something is automatically inoffensive or not worthy of offense or that people who are offended are overly sensitive.

These shirts seem to be have the message that The U of M are a bunch of fags. Not hate speech, but how could you possibly say that that shouldn't be considered offensive?
These shirts only serve to perpetuate the connection between homosexuality and derision. It's childish. How many of you straight people use "fag" as a casual insult? How many of you white people use "nigger" as a casual insult?

These shirts are the definition of inconsiderate childishness.

Um no, the ARTICLE brought up hate speech. Scroll up, you homo.

:)

I didn't say it wasn't offensive. Last I checked, there was no constitutional right not to be offended.

Maybe, i just read badly, but where exactly?

Interesting, because I bought that specific t-shirt to irritate anyone silly enough to be irritated by it :D

Anyway, Hell really must have frozen over, because I agree with you both.

To get worked up over this t-shirt is silly.

<b>"Words lead to hate crimes," Marcus said. "I wonder if this person will learn a lesson. "You can't oppress people."</b>

Other quotes in the article imply that these guys were wrong for making the shirt because people were OFFENDED.

Words DO lead to hate crimes. Think about that the next time some jock is screaming fag in your ear while he is kicking you in the stomach.

Nobody ever says anything to the effect that "these shirts are hate speech". Nobody ever says anything to the effect that "The people who are selling these shirts are commiting hate speech"
Joseph Doss is either a moron or a marketing major.

Just to clarify, it's not "just words" in this particular example. Click on the link. There's a nice picture on the shirt that removes all ambiguity:

With that in mind, we can ask a purer question: Should a comment that denigrates a particular subculture be censored?

Personally, I think it depends on the subculture. Homosexuals are still dealing with too much bigotry, and subjected to too many stereotypes, for this kind of thing to be okay. I'm all for edgy humor in my personal life. I've made enemies because of it. But there are some things that you don't joke about because the issues they're connected to are still too fucked up.

Oh please. Censorship doesn't change anyone's belief. Just because the jock doesn't say "fag" out loud doesn't mean that he doesn't think it. And banning him from saying it certainly isn't going to make him rethink whether to kick your ass or not. Think about that while THE MIND CONTROL LASERS OF THE FUTURE ARE REPORTING YOU FOR THOUGHT CRIME. :)

http://www.aclu.org/FreeSpeech/FreeS...m?ID=9004&c=87

<b>Where racist, sexist and homophobic speech is concerned, the ACLU believes that more speech -- not less -- is the best revenge. This is particularly true at universities, whose mission is to facilitate learning through open debate and study, and to enlighten. Speech codes are not the way to go on campuses, where all views are entitled to be heard, explored, supported or refuted. Besides, when hate is out in the open, people can see the problem. Then they can organize effectively to counter bad attitudes, possibly change them, and forge solidarity against the forces of intolerance.

College administrators may find speech codes attractive as a quick fix, but as one critic put it: "Verbal purity is not social change." Codes that punish bigoted speech treat only the symptom: The problem itself is bigotry. The ACLU believes that instead of opting for gestures that only appear to cure the disease, universities have to do the hard work of recruitment to increase faculty and student diversity; counseling to raise awareness about bigotry and its history, and changing curricula to institutionalize more inclusive approaches to all subject matter. </b>

You'll also note that the wolverines in the picture are sexless, nor is there any anal sex being performed between two males.

Absolutely not. I am willing to put up with as much "fag-hating" talk as necessary to be able to speak my mind about white-trash-"gangstas" or cake-eaters that have never had a job in their lives.


I disagree -- once you start favoring one subculture over another, you start down a slippery slope of elitism and political correctness.

It takes a certain amount of willful blindness to not recognize the anti-homosexual overtones in that picture, especially when paired with the words. Yeah, maybe they're just playing leapfrog.

I think you have a good point, seretogis, when you say that censoring some and not others raises a multitude of problems. And the ACLU defends that argument very well. I'm forced to agree - this shirt shouldn't be censored, no.

But I don't think it's unreasonable or hypersensitive to be offended by it. In fact, I think you kind of have to be kind of an asshole to be fully aware of the implications of "Wolverines Pack Fudge" and still use it as though it doesn't insult homosexuals. Whether or not the law

I should buy one, and exercise my right to offend everyone. Then laugh for a week until I slip into a coma.

i wouldn't buy one...and i don't think they're in good taste, but banning them is just silly, and un-american.

Who is calling for censorship? Am i? Am i just not aware of the fact that i am? How about i think about that while YOU PUT WORDS INTO MY MOUTH AND IMAGINE MORE HATECRIME ACCUSATIONS. I don't care if some ass wants to wear a shirt like that. Better someone volunteers the fact that they're an ass sooner than later. What i'm saying is that none of you should delude yourlselves with the idea that anyone who would get offended by these shirts is overreacting.

I haven't read anything on here about anyone on here say that they want these fools shut down, just that they are selling offensive products. Why is that hard to understand?

Ok. The shirts are offensive. If that's all we're discussing, I guess we're done. :)

Needs less hypocrisy.

^^^ needs to elaborate.

I see two sexually ambiguous cartoon creatures, one of whom is inserting an object into the others rectum. Only your personal predjudices would identify such a picture with homosexuality.

Your personal prejudices, guided by the phrase "fudge packer" which some of you may be aware became popular as a derogatory term for homosexuals.

Yep, you caught me trying to incite a hate crime against the peripheral and oft abused subgroup known as jocks. It was innapropriate and should have been phrased:
Words DO lead to hate crimes. Think about that the next time some PERSON is screaming fag in your ear while s/he is kicking you in the stomach.
Better?

Yes. :D

Go Blue!

I'm not offended. I think its stupid, but I'm certainly not offended. Its obvious what they are saying, but so be it. If people want to wear something stupid, let them. Instead of getting offended, maybe you should smile knowing that their stupidity will probably be their undoing someday.

Go Blue!

lol, that's funny shirt indeed.