Defense spending chart - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

anleja · 10-01-2003, 06:31 PM

I hope this isn't a repost. The U.S. is, of course, the bar on the left.

Mojo_PeiPei · 10-01-2003, 06:39 PM

Costs alot to be top dog.

Food Eater Lad · 10-01-2003, 06:44 PM

Cost a lot to defend nations that cant defend themselves.

BigGov · 10-01-2003, 07:00 PM

Also costs a lot to have the best equipment in the world.

France spent about $250 million (I think, or somewhere close to that, anyway, an official shitload) developing this brand new fighter jet. Head-to-head, an F-14 is almost equal, a F-16 is superior, and a F-22 is just plain dominating against it.

Mojo_PeiPei · 10-01-2003, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Food Eater Lad
Cost a lot to defend nations that cant defend themselves.

Actually it costs alot of money so that other nations don't have to have a standing army comprable to our own, thus establishing us as the sole hyper power.

The_Dude · 10-01-2003, 07:16 PM

somebody tell the US govt that the cold war is over!

I'm all for defense spending, but a vast quantity of that money is being spent for useless causes (like the bases we operate around the world)

fishin · 10-01-2003, 07:34 PM

I don't see the point of that chart other than to undermine the reason for the commitment to the US military. Can you tell us the context of this chart?

kandayin · 10-01-2003, 07:41 PM

I still can't find a use for an army owned by a single country, besides maybe for humanitarian reasons.

I mean who is there to fear seriously, countries don't attack each other nowaday, well besides the US of course, it's all groups and organizations operating internationnally, therefor the use of an international force.

I know i'm not making friends here posting that

cliv · 10-01-2003, 07:44 PM

First - The best way to insure peace is to prepare for war

Second - If we can convince North Korea, China, terrorists, etc, that killing us is a bad thing, then we can spend less

Third - $390 Billion out of a $2,229 Billion Federal Budget. That's 17% of the budget to defend the citizens. I think that's a fair amount. Defense IS one of the primary responsibilities of the ferderal government.

BigGov · 10-01-2003, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Dude
somebody tell the US govt that the cold war is over!

I'm all for defense spending, but a vast quantity of that money is being spent for useless causes (like the bases we operate around the world)

Actually, I believe a majority of the money is spent towards soldiers. Pay, housing, food, soldiers are our number one expense.

Tophat665 · 10-01-2003, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cliv
That's 17% of the budget to defend the citizens. Defense IS one of the primary responsibilities of the ferderal government.

That is the only argument that holds water. Still imagine what we could do if we used 15% on the budget on defense.

BigGov · 10-01-2003, 07:59 PM

We would have to cut stuff.

For someone volunteering their life to protect mine, I'll gladly give up that 2%.

If anything, we should increase the spending so we can give those soldiers the pay raise they deserve.

anleja · 10-01-2003, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishin
I don't see the point of that chart other than to undermine the reason for the commitment to the US military. Can you tell us the context of this chart?

Why do you think I'm undermining the reason for our military commitment? By posting a chart? People can draw their own conclusions. I posted this chart neutrally, I just thought it would be interesting to see how people would find a way to debate about it. Some of the responses are thought-provoking, from both sides.

edit: on a personal note, I am new to the politics board. I thought this would be a way to test the waters.

anleja · 10-01-2003, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cliv
$390 Billion out of a $2,229 Billion Federal Budget. That's 17% of the budget to defend the citizens. I think that's a fair amount. Defense IS one of the primary responsibilities of the ferderal government.

Does anyone have stats like this for other countries? I think it'd be interesting.

rogue49 · 10-01-2003, 09:46 PM

I'd say more than half of it is waste & pork.
My time in the DOD proved that to me.

They need to get it under control.
Unfortunately, the foxes look after the henhouse.

Mojo_PeiPei · 10-01-2003, 09:54 PM

Sure:

China-purchasing power parity - $5.7 trillion (2002 est.)
Defense:$55.91 billion (FY02)
% of GPD:4.3% (FY02)

France-purchasing power parity - $1.54 trillion (2002 est.)
Defense:$46.5 billion (2000)
% of GPD:2.57% (2002)

England-purchasing power parity - $1.52 trillion
Defense:$31.7 billion (2002)
% of GPD:2.32% (2002)

Germany

urchasing power parity - $2.184 trillion (2002 est.)
Defense:$38.8 billion (2002)
% of GPD:1.38% (2002)

Israel

urchasing power parity - $122 billion
Defense:$8.97 billion (FY02)
% of GPD:8.75% (FY02)

India

urchasing power parity - $2.66 trillion (2002 est.)
Defense:$11.52 billion (FY02)
% of GPD: 2.3% (FY02)

You can find tons of stuff at
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html

seretogis · 10-01-2003, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy4
Actually, I believe a majority of the money is spent towards soldiers. Pay, housing, food, soldiers are our number one expense.

I find that incredibly hard to believe, considering that we have billion-dollar aircraft.

Dibbler · 10-02-2003, 10:36 AM

This is great proof that the nations listed on the right need to "pitch in" on the cost of defending their nations. We spend so much so they can spend so little. I'm not saying we should but, if the US pulled out of NATO, told the nations of asia, the middle east and europe that they were on their own, in ten years you would see a much different chart.

Sparhawk · 10-02-2003, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by seretogis
I find that incredibly hard to believe, considering that we have billion-dollar aircraft.

Granted this is FY02, but this gives you an idea:

According to Under Secretary of Defense (Comptroller) Dov Zakheim, the DOD budget is broken up as follows:

-- Procurement, $61.6 billion;
-- Operations and maintenance, $125.7 billion;
-- Research and development, $47.4 billion;
-- Military personnel, $82.3 billion; and
-- Other, $10.6 billion.

So about 25 percent of the budget is manpower.

seretogis · 10-02-2003, 11:38 AM

By the way, Gephardt wants to spend over twice the amount we spend on defense ($900 billion) on a national health-care system.

Mojo_PeiPei · 10-02-2003, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dibbler
This is great proof that the nations listed on the right need to "pitch in" on the cost of defending their nations. We spend so much so they can spend so little. I'm not saying we should but, if the US pulled out of NATO, told the nations of asia, the middle east and europe that they were on their own, in ten years you would see a much different chart.

Thats the catch, we do this so that they don't have standing armies anywhere near comprable to our own. Thats why we do many things such as police the middle east, remain in Nato, and have a military presence in S Korea. It appears the strategy is working.

Kadath · 10-02-2003, 11:55 AM

Hey, is "procurement" all those recruiting ads that I see in the theaters more and more these days?

alkaloid · 10-02-2003, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kadath
Hey, is "procurement" all those recruiting ads that I see in the theaters more and more these days?

I don't think so. Procurement is the money the military spends money to buy things, like planes and bombs and uniforms, etc. I think the money for recruitment comes from the personnel part of the budget.

geep · 10-02-2003, 12:33 PM

I think it's interesting to hear us debate the amount of money we spend on the military. Sure it's a lot of money- much more than any other country spends, but it's far less than we spend on education. And, while our military is undisputably the best in the world, our education system lags woefully behind the rest of the developed world. Because the figures for the amount of money we spend on education are buried deeply in 50 different state budgets, nobody rags on that spending. Wouldn't that money be better spent elsewhere? Or better yet, given back to the people from whom it was extorted, the taxpayers?

filtherton · 10-02-2003, 02:05 PM

I'd rather have most of my share of military spending back.

Zeld2.0 · 10-02-2003, 02:27 PM

And the question beckons: why bother defending the rest of the world?

On the one hand you want to intervene and feel its a must, then the other side you don't want to so we're left alone in the 'bullshit' everyone cries about.

So what will it be? Can't have both here.

Phaenx · 10-02-2003, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by seretogis
By the way, Gephardt wants to spend over twice the amount we spend on defense ($900 billion) on a national health-care system.

Soviet America. No, I don't like the ring of that. I think what we have now is fine.

10-01-2003, 06:31 PM	#1 (permalink)
anleja disconnected Location: ignoreland	Defense spending chart I hope this isn't a repost. The U.S. is, of course, the bar on the left.

10-01-2003, 06:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Costs alot to be top dog. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

10-01-2003, 07:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
BigGov WoW or Class... Location: UWW	Also costs a lot to have the best equipment in the world. France spent about $250 million (I think, or somewhere close to that, anyway, an official shitload) developing this brand new fighter jet. Head-to-head, an F-14 is almost equal, a F-16 is superior, and a F-22 is just plain dominating against it. __________________ One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

10-01-2003, 07:16 PM	#6 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	somebody tell the US govt that the cold war is over! I'm all for defense spending, but a vast quantity of that money is being spent for useless causes (like the bases we operate around the world) __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

10-01-2003, 07:34 PM	#7 (permalink)
fishin Crazy	I don't see the point of that chart other than to undermine the reason for the commitment to the US military. Can you tell us the context of this chart? __________________ liberals rule. phhtt.

10-01-2003, 06:44 PM	#3 (permalink)
Food Eater Lad Banned	Cost a lot to defend nations that cant defend themselves.

10-01-2003, 07:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
kandayin Upright	I still can't find a use for an army owned by a single country, besides maybe for humanitarian reasons. I mean who is there to fear seriously, countries don't attack each other nowaday, well besides the US of course, it's all groups and organizations operating internationnally, therefor the use of an international force. I know i'm not making friends here posting that

10-01-2003, 07:44 PM	#9 (permalink)
cliv Insane Location: New Jersey, USA	First - The best way to insure peace is to prepare for war Second - If we can convince North Korea, China, terrorists, etc, that killing us is a bad thing, then we can spend less Third - $390 Billion out of a $2,229 Billion Federal Budget. That's 17% of the budget to defend the citizens. I think that's a fair amount. Defense IS one of the primary responsibilities of the ferderal government.

10-01-2003, 07:59 PM	#12 (permalink)
BigGov WoW or Class... Location: UWW	We would have to cut stuff. For someone volunteering their life to protect mine, I'll gladly give up that 2%. If anything, we should increase the spending so we can give those soldiers the pay raise they deserve. __________________ One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

10-01-2003, 09:46 PM	#15 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	I'd say more than half of it is waste & pork. My time in the DOD proved that to me. They need to get it under control. Unfortunately, the foxes look after the henhouse.

10-01-2003, 09:54 PM	#16 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Sure: China-purchasing power parity - $5.7 trillion (2002 est.) Defense:$55.91 billion (FY02) % of GPD:4.3% (FY02) France-purchasing power parity - $1.54 trillion (2002 est.) Defense:$46.5 billion (2000) % of GPD:2.57% (2002) England-purchasing power parity - $1.52 trillion Defense:$31.7 billion (2002) % of GPD:2.32% (2002) Germanyurchasing power parity - $2.184 trillion (2002 est.) Defense:$38.8 billion (2002) % of GPD:1.38% (2002) Israelurchasing power parity - $122 billion Defense:$8.97 billion (FY02) % of GPD:8.75% (FY02) Indiaurchasing power parity - $2.66 trillion (2002 est.) Defense:$11.52 billion (FY02) % of GPD: 2.3% (FY02) You can find tons of stuff at http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

10-02-2003, 10:36 AM	#18 (permalink)
Dibbler Psycho Location: Initech, Iowa	This is great proof that the nations listed on the right need to "pitch in" on the cost of defending their nations. We spend so much so they can spend so little. I'm not saying we should but, if the US pulled out of NATO, told the nations of asia, the middle east and europe that they were on their own, in ten years you would see a much different chart. Last edited by Dibbler; 10-02-2003 at 10:39 AM..

10-02-2003, 11:38 AM	#20 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	By the way, Gephardt wants to spend over twice the amount we spend on defense ($900 billion) on a national health-care system. __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

10-02-2003, 11:55 AM	#22 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	Hey, is "procurement" all those recruiting ads that I see in the theaters more and more these days? __________________ it's quiet in here

10-02-2003, 12:33 PM	#24 (permalink)
geep Insane Location: Imprisoned in Ecotopia	I think it's interesting to hear us debate the amount of money we spend on the military. Sure it's a lot of money- much more than any other country spends, but it's far less than we spend on education. And, while our military is undisputably the best in the world, our education system lags woefully behind the rest of the developed world. Because the figures for the amount of money we spend on education are buried deeply in 50 different state budgets, nobody rags on that spending. Wouldn't that money be better spent elsewhere? Or better yet, given back to the people from whom it was extorted, the taxpayers?

10-02-2003, 02:05 PM	#25 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I'd rather have most of my share of military spending back.

10-02-2003, 02:27 PM	#26 (permalink)
Zeld2.0 Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate Location: Los Angeles	And the question beckons: why bother defending the rest of the world? On the one hand you want to intervene and feel its a must, then the other side you don't want to so we're left alone in the 'bullshit' everyone cries about. So what will it be? Can't have both here.