Girl Wants To Start Caucasian Club At High School - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Lebell · 09-21-2003, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zeld2.0
Like many say, racism / discrimination in this country lies with the ones in power. Minorities often band together if anything for protection.

I really don't have a horse in this race, but I had to comment on this line.

I knew a manager in my last job who lived with her daughter in a very hispanic area. This woman and her daughter were both fair skinned and VERY naturally blonde.

Anyway, she was telling me one day how the hispanic kids at school gang up on her daughter and pick on her because she is "white" and "blonde".

The kicker is that the school administration won't do a thing to these kids.

The second story is that I was driving in East Chicago (Illinois) LATE one nite for a job and was warned very clearly, DO NOT get off the highway, whatever I do, because my white ass would be beat or worse if I was caught.

----------------

The moral of my story is that power only makes racism easier to perpetrate, but it is very real in ALL people.

As to this case, it is clear to me: racism is racism, and to deny this child the right to form her club because it is for white kids, stinks of it.

Sledge · 09-21-2003, 11:38 PM

Know why there haven't been any "legitamate minority candidates" represented in the major parties?

Because the people in charge of our country know that that he or she wouldn't fucking get elected.

The biggest problem facing modern civil rights crusaders is people who insist that racism is a thing of the past. If you decide that a problem isn't there, you're not going to do a damn thing about it. That may not be your fault. You might not be a racist person. That doesn't mean racism doesn't exist.

I don't see why people refuse to believe minority citizens when they say that they're still being discriminated because of their race. "Other factors," they claim. Tell that to the young black men who enter a crowded subway and get baleful looks and see hands tighten on handbags. Not everyone, but enough. That shit does things to you when you're young: it changes how you see yourself, it changes what you think you can do.

In one study children were asked to draw pictures of American Indians. The one thing all the pictures had in common was feathers. Other themes: tomahawks, peace pipes. Yes, American Indians aren't as common as other groups. That doesn't mean that we should be okay with letting our young swallow what the media tells them "those people" are like, not when "those people" are still with us, living lives in parallel with us. See 2wolves' post above for an example of what I mean - Jesus, scalping?

Filtherton is dead on: overt racism is long gone in most places. It's been replaced by covert racism - the associations people unconsciously make between ethnic groups and certain traits, then apply to anyone of that ethnic group anywhere. It's not as bad as it used to be, and it's getting better all the time, but how can anyone say "problem solved, let's not talk about this anymore?"

Racism will truly be dead once the actions of minority individuals are no longer construed as representative of their group. Will we ever get there? Is that a realistic goal? It's gotten us pretty far over the past century. Let's stick with it and see how it goes.

Sledge · 09-22-2003, 12:00 AM

As for the actual topic at hand:

Why exactly do ethnic groups band together? Partially it's a cultural thing: people with a common heritage have a lot to share with each other. And partially it's because they share the same labels and stereotypes conferred upon them by other people.

I guess the problem with a Caucasian club is that, generally speaking, there isn't so much that Caucasians have in common that other groups DON'T share. Caucasians are very diverse. So to set up a special club based ONLY on the color of their skin, as opposed to setting it up to celebrate a common background or heritage or history or culture, seems a little asinine. An Irish appreciation club is different from a White appreciation club because the former is culture-based and the latter is, well, not really based on anything but skin tone.

I would have no problem with an American appreciation club in France or Japan or South Africa, because there would be something they shared that others didn't. But to propose a Caucasian club spanning socioeconomic lines, state backgrounds, religious beliefs, everything - so that the only thing members DO have in common is their whiteness - that's dangerous.

123dsa · 09-22-2003, 07:10 AM

As far as minorities being jailed at a higher rate than whites, maybe they should quit breaking so many laws...

Seriously though, whites are more likely to be executed that blacks. It's true. I guess it's cause they can't pull the race card.

LSD

filtherton · 09-22-2003, 07:28 AM

I'm interested to hear your sources for white execution assertion.

smooth · 09-22-2003, 08:39 AM

Good points, Sledge.

What I still don't understand is why a few people are getting bent about this girl being prevented from forming her club--no one is stopping her!

This is one more example of someone posting a story in an attempt to shove it in liberals' faces and make a statement of, "There, what do you think of that?"

Then sporadic charges of racism fly throughout the thread due to the misperception that liberals wouldn't allow the girl to have her white club--when, in fact, we just think it's pointless but couldn't care less what she does with her free time.

WhoaitsZ · 09-22-2003, 11:21 AM

Holy crap! Look at all the whiners in our world. Look at all the hypocrites, look at all the people using the ‘well he hit him so I can too’ crutch.

I say let the girl do it. I do not agree with it – totally. It seems like I remember some ‘black clubs’ in Detroit (?) that ‘were not racist because the club is open to all’.

The girls’ club is ‘open to all’.

If it were up to me, both clubs would close. But until people quit letting themselves play the race card, this shit will continue. I’m white. I don’t give a damn what color anyone is. They are human beings who think, live, work and go about life or they are little ‘woe-is-me’ … creatures.

I’m sure if I went far enough into my family’s history I can find someone fucking us. Using that is a crutch I refuse to sink low enough to use. Life is a bitch and it was a bitch and if people keep whining it will continue to be a bitch.

You if my great great great grandma was murdered due to a belief I have no problem being friends with the relative of the murderer. They didn’t do it, I have no right to hold them accountable. It’s silly.

So. . . if you really hate this kind of action happening, quit whining or making it okay since someone in your bloodline was wrong. Take some responsibility, get off the high horse and fucking change the people, not whine or be hypocritical.

seretogis · 09-22-2003, 11:34 AM

So, there's a racism problem? Let's institute some racist policies to combat it!

Xell101 · 09-22-2003, 11:47 AM

I think race is completely irrelevant and should be ignored, and anything that would do otherwise better have a damn good reason for existing otherwise it should be prevented or removed. Unless it can be used as an indicator, like black people loitering at night in a large portion of the low income area of town, or the hispanics gangs that roam aroundthe other part of the ghetto-ish area, or teenagers out behind the mall on Friday. Whether or not you like the idea, when they do it where I live, it works damn well till enough people start complaining about how "wrong" it is, then they stop. Which is bad because there is a noticbale increase in all the activities the cops were out to stop.

emidew22 · 09-22-2003, 12:43 PM

It seems like there are two issues here.
1. Should this girl be allowed to start her club?
2. Is it right for this girl to start a club celebrating white skin?

As far as the first question goes, of course she should be able to have her white person club. She's welcoming other races to join, so she's not really breaking standard school rules or anything. If she wants to get together with people of all ethnicities once a week and talk about how great it is to be white, then fine. It's her right to be able to peacefully congregate.

The second question is a bit trickier. And it can't be answered based on the info we've got. We don't know why she wants to start her club. Maybe she wants to retaliate against the black club. Maybe she wants to be able to get tips on which sun blocks work best for pastey skins. My guess is that she's trying to make a point, but since i don't know for sure, i can't really say whether or not she should be doing this.

I do agree with Sledge though. Having a white club seems silly to me, seeing as how being white is probably the only thing that memebers would have in common. Probably most members would have different cultures and different opinions on president bush, and different family histories, and not all of them would like the chicken patty lunch days. But then isn't it a little racist to say that a black club is okay? Because that is to say that black people have much more in common than their skin color, that they all have the same cultures, and family histories, ect. Do all black people listen to rap? Has every single black person in america been personally discriminated against? Do all black people celebrate quanza? Do they all wear fubu? What about the white kid who listens to the same music as the black student union kids, and wears the same clothes, and gets followed around the drug store every time he's there, cause he looks like he might steal something? Doesn't he share the same culture, then, as the black student union kids, even though he's not black? When i was in high school i was friends with a girl from jamaica who listend to pink floyd and bought all her clothes from thrift shops. She would get harrassed by other black kids for not listening to "real black music" and not being part of the black students union. And she hated it when she was reffered to as "african american" seeing as how she concidered herself to be neither. So even though she was black, she didn't really have any thing in common with the memebers of the black student union. So are minority clubs really about promoting a culture? And in a way, don't they further separate whites and blacks, or majorities and minorities?

I guess what i'm getting at is that we are ignorant. All of us. And we need to learn more. And we need to stop looking at what people are, and instead at who people are. I know i'm young and i know i'm naiive, so i've probably said some things that make no sence. But i do know that, and that's why i want to know what other people think. If every one knew that they don't really know that much and therefor tried to understand where other people are coming from, i think issues like this wouldn't really exist. Am i wrong?

seretogis · 09-22-2003, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by emidew22
I do agree with Sledge though. Having a white club seems silly to me, seeing as how being white is probably the only thing that memebers would have in common. Probably most members would have different cultures and different opinions on president bush, and different family histories, and not all of them would like the chicken patty lunch days.

Uhh.. whereas everyone with darker skin enjoys fried chicken, watermelon, and votes Democrat? I hardly think so. So, now that we've established that people of all pigmentations are different, why is ANY club that is race-related something that needs to be endorsed in any way by the school system?

smooth · 09-22-2003, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by seretogis
Uhh.. whereas everyone with darker skin enjoys fried chicken, watermelon, and votes Democrat? I hardly think so. So, now that we've established that people of all pigmentations are different, why is ANY club that is race-related something that needs to be endorsed in any way by the school system?

Way to rip one's statement out of context. Here's the rest of the statement (which answers your question):

Quote:

But then isn't it a little racist to say that a black club is okay? Because that is to say that black people have much more in common than their skin color, that they all have the same cultures, and family histories, ect. Do all black people listen to rap? Has every single black person in america been personally discriminated against? Do all black people celebrate quanza? Do they all wear fubu? What about the white kid who listens to the same music as the black student union kids, and wears the same clothes, and gets followed around the drug store every time he's there, cause he looks like he might steal something? Doesn't he share the same culture, then, as the black student union kids, even though he's not black?

filtherton · 09-22-2003, 10:44 PM

Everyone is different, but all minorities generally do have a few things in common:
1. They are not in the majority.
2. And all the things that come with that.
Which apparently includes: being underrepresented in nearly ever facet of life in this country; being victims of some overt, but mostly covert racism; being incarcerated and executed at a higher rate than whites; etc.

What do all of us white people have in common? We're all in the majority. Woohoo, let's get together and talk about last night's episode of "Friends". Let's get together and talk about our shared european ancestry. Let's get together talk about our shared advantages as white people. I used to think that this girl should get to start her club because it didn't really matter anyway. As soon as people stop giving her attention the club will disband. But now, i think that she HAS to start the club just to appease this "me too" insecurity that my fellow white people can't bear to part with.

09-21-2003, 11:38 PM	#42 (permalink)
Sledge Pasture Bedtime	Know why there haven't been any "legitamate minority candidates" represented in the major parties? Because the people in charge of our country know that that he or she wouldn't fucking get elected. The biggest problem facing modern civil rights crusaders is people who insist that racism is a thing of the past. If you decide that a problem isn't there, you're not going to do a damn thing about it. That may not be your fault. You might not be a racist person. That doesn't mean racism doesn't exist. I don't see why people refuse to believe minority citizens when they say that they're still being discriminated because of their race. "Other factors," they claim. Tell that to the young black men who enter a crowded subway and get baleful looks and see hands tighten on handbags. Not everyone, but enough. That shit does things to you when you're young: it changes how you see yourself, it changes what you think you can do. In one study children were asked to draw pictures of American Indians. The one thing all the pictures had in common was feathers. Other themes: tomahawks, peace pipes. Yes, American Indians aren't as common as other groups. That doesn't mean that we should be okay with letting our young swallow what the media tells them "those people" are like, not when "those people" are still with us, living lives in parallel with us. See 2wolves' post above for an example of what I mean - Jesus, scalping? Filtherton is dead on: overt racism is long gone in most places. It's been replaced by covert racism - the associations people unconsciously make between ethnic groups and certain traits, then apply to anyone of that ethnic group anywhere. It's not as bad as it used to be, and it's getting better all the time, but how can anyone say "problem solved, let's not talk about this anymore?" Racism will truly be dead once the actions of minority individuals are no longer construed as representative of their group. Will we ever get there? Is that a realistic goal? It's gotten us pretty far over the past century. Let's stick with it and see how it goes. Last edited by Sledge; 09-22-2003 at 12:41 AM..

09-22-2003, 08:39 AM	#46 (permalink)
smooth Junkie Location: Right here	Good points, Sledge. What I still don't understand is why a few people are getting bent about this girl being prevented from forming her club--no one is stopping her! This is one more example of someone posting a story in an attempt to shove it in liberals' faces and make a statement of, "There, what do you think of that?" Then sporadic charges of racism fly throughout the thread due to the misperception that liberals wouldn't allow the girl to have her white club--when, in fact, we just think it's pointless but couldn't care less what she does with her free time. __________________ "The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

09-22-2003, 11:34 AM	#48 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	So, there's a racism problem? Let's institute some racist policies to combat it! __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

09-22-2003, 12:00 AM	#43 (permalink)
Sledge Pasture Bedtime	As for the actual topic at hand: Why exactly do ethnic groups band together? Partially it's a cultural thing: people with a common heritage have a lot to share with each other. And partially it's because they share the same labels and stereotypes conferred upon them by other people. I guess the problem with a Caucasian club is that, generally speaking, there isn't so much that Caucasians have in common that other groups DON'T share. Caucasians are very diverse. So to set up a special club based ONLY on the color of their skin, as opposed to setting it up to celebrate a common background or heritage or history or culture, seems a little asinine. An Irish appreciation club is different from a White appreciation club because the former is culture-based and the latter is, well, not really based on anything but skin tone. I would have no problem with an American appreciation club in France or Japan or South Africa, because there would be something they shared that others didn't. But to propose a Caucasian club spanning socioeconomic lines, state backgrounds, religious beliefs, everything - so that the only thing members DO have in common is their whiteness - that's dangerous.

09-22-2003, 07:10 AM	#44 (permalink)
123dsa Crazy Location: KY	As far as minorities being jailed at a higher rate than whites, maybe they should quit breaking so many laws... Seriously though, whites are more likely to be executed that blacks. It's true. I guess it's cause they can't pull the race card. LSD

09-22-2003, 07:28 AM	#45 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I'm interested to hear your sources for white execution assertion.

09-22-2003, 11:21 AM	#47 (permalink)
WhoaitsZ Crazy Location: right behind you...	Holy crap! Look at all the whiners in our world. Look at all the hypocrites, look at all the people using the ‘well he hit him so I can too’ crutch. I say let the girl do it. I do not agree with it – totally. It seems like I remember some ‘black clubs’ in Detroit (?) that ‘were not racist because the club is open to all’. The girls’ club is ‘open to all’. If it were up to me, both clubs would close. But until people quit letting themselves play the race card, this shit will continue. I’m white. I don’t give a damn what color anyone is. They are human beings who think, live, work and go about life or they are little ‘woe-is-me’ … creatures. I’m sure if I went far enough into my family’s history I can find someone fucking us. Using that is a crutch I refuse to sink low enough to use. Life is a bitch and it was a bitch and if people keep whining it will continue to be a bitch. You if my great great great grandma was murdered due to a belief I have no problem being friends with the relative of the murderer. They didn’t do it, I have no right to hold them accountable. It’s silly. So. . . if you really hate this kind of action happening, quit whining or making it okay since someone in your bloodline was wrong. Take some responsibility, get off the high horse and fucking change the people, not whine or be hypocritical.

09-22-2003, 11:47 AM	#49 (permalink)
Xell101 Junkie	I think race is completely irrelevant and should be ignored, and anything that would do otherwise better have a damn good reason for existing otherwise it should be prevented or removed. Unless it can be used as an indicator, like black people loitering at night in a large portion of the low income area of town, or the hispanics gangs that roam aroundthe other part of the ghetto-ish area, or teenagers out behind the mall on Friday. Whether or not you like the idea, when they do it where I live, it works damn well till enough people start complaining about how "wrong" it is, then they stop. Which is bad because there is a noticbale increase in all the activities the cops were out to stop.

09-22-2003, 12:43 PM	#50 (permalink)
emidew22 Upright Location: Boston	It seems like there are two issues here. 1. Should this girl be allowed to start her club? 2. Is it right for this girl to start a club celebrating white skin? As far as the first question goes, of course she should be able to have her white person club. She's welcoming other races to join, so she's not really breaking standard school rules or anything. If she wants to get together with people of all ethnicities once a week and talk about how great it is to be white, then fine. It's her right to be able to peacefully congregate. The second question is a bit trickier. And it can't be answered based on the info we've got. We don't know why she wants to start her club. Maybe she wants to retaliate against the black club. Maybe she wants to be able to get tips on which sun blocks work best for pastey skins. My guess is that she's trying to make a point, but since i don't know for sure, i can't really say whether or not she should be doing this. I do agree with Sledge though. Having a white club seems silly to me, seeing as how being white is probably the only thing that memebers would have in common. Probably most members would have different cultures and different opinions on president bush, and different family histories, and not all of them would like the chicken patty lunch days. But then isn't it a little racist to say that a black club is okay? Because that is to say that black people have much more in common than their skin color, that they all have the same cultures, and family histories, ect. Do all black people listen to rap? Has every single black person in america been personally discriminated against? Do all black people celebrate quanza? Do they all wear fubu? What about the white kid who listens to the same music as the black student union kids, and wears the same clothes, and gets followed around the drug store every time he's there, cause he looks like he might steal something? Doesn't he share the same culture, then, as the black student union kids, even though he's not black? When i was in high school i was friends with a girl from jamaica who listend to pink floyd and bought all her clothes from thrift shops. She would get harrassed by other black kids for not listening to "real black music" and not being part of the black students union. And she hated it when she was reffered to as "african american" seeing as how she concidered herself to be neither. So even though she was black, she didn't really have any thing in common with the memebers of the black student union. So are minority clubs really about promoting a culture? And in a way, don't they further separate whites and blacks, or majorities and minorities? I guess what i'm getting at is that we are ignorant. All of us. And we need to learn more. And we need to stop looking at what people are, and instead at who people are. I know i'm young and i know i'm naiive, so i've probably said some things that make no sence. But i do know that, and that's why i want to know what other people think. If every one knew that they don't really know that much and therefor tried to understand where other people are coming from, i think issues like this wouldn't really exist. Am i wrong?

09-22-2003, 10:44 PM	#53 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Everyone is different, but all minorities generally do have a few things in common: 1. They are not in the majority. 2. And all the things that come with that. Which apparently includes: being underrepresented in nearly ever facet of life in this country; being victims of some overt, but mostly covert racism; being incarcerated and executed at a higher rate than whites; etc. What do all of us white people have in common? We're all in the majority. Woohoo, let's get together and talk about last night's episode of "Friends". Let's get together and talk about our shared european ancestry. Let's get together talk about our shared advantages as white people. I used to think that this girl should get to start her club because it didn't really matter anyway. As soon as people stop giving her attention the club will disband. But now, i think that she HAS to start the club just to appease this "me too" insecurity that my fellow white people can't bear to part with.