Kill Arafat - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Mojo_PeiPei · 09-21-2003, 03:54 PM

JUst found this of the net, some good shit on this morally righteous leader.
http://www.yahoodi.com/peace/arafat.html#howdid

Here are a few snips since the page is rather lengthy...

Yasser Arafat, Fatah's leader, has claimed that he was born in Jerusalem. That may or may not be true. What is known is that he was brought up and educated in Egypt after his parents had emigrated from Palestine. It is important to note that they were NOT "refugees" or "exiles." They had simply moved to Egypt in the 1920s ... more than twenty years BEFORE the State of Israel came into existence! So if Yasser wants to fix blame where it belongs, he should be cursing on his parents' graves for making the choice to leave Palestine and stop blaming the Jews of Palestine who chose to stay and create a Jewish State.

Arafat's actual name was Abd al-Rahman abd al-Bauf Arafat al-Qud al-Husseini. He shortened it to obscure his kinship with the notorious Nazi and ex-Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Muhammed Amin al-Husseini."
-----------
According to the Jewish Press (March 14 1997) a tape of Arafat recorded by the Israeli Secret Service, ordering the execution of 2 American diplomats (Cleo Noel and George Moore) was given to the State Department. Sid Zion in the New York Daily News wrote:

"To treat Arafat like a statesman when you have him taped ordering the killing of American diplomats makes one wonder what John Gotti is doing in jail, forget about Jonathan Pollard!"

On the night of March 2, 1973, PLO gunmen pumped 40 bullets into the bodies of the US ambassador to Sudan and two other diplomats held hostage at the Saudi embassy in Khartoum.
Almost exactly 24 years later, the man who ordered the killings was warmly received in Washington DC by the leader of the American people.

US ambassador Cleo Noel, US charge d'affaires George Curtis Moore, and Belgian charge d'affaires Guy Eid were among a group of diplomats held hostage by eight members of Yasser Arafat's Black September a faction of the PLO during a reception at the Saudi embassy in the Sudanese capital. The terrorists demanded the release of Sirhan Bishara Sirhan, the Palestinian assassin of Robert Kennedy, as well as other Palestinians being held in Israel and European prisons.

After President Richard Nixon refused to negotiate, Arafat's commander, Abu Iyad, in touch with the terrorists by high-frequency transmitter from PLO headquarters in Beirut, gave the instruction "Remember Nahr al-Bard. The people's blood in the Nahr al-Bard cries out for vengeance. We and the rest of the world are watching you." The radio messages were intercepted by Israeli intelligence, and transcripts later handed to the US State Department and Nixon.

"Nahr al-Bard", a reference to a terrorist training facility in Lebanon which had been attacked by Israeli troops 11 days earlier, was the code phrase ordering the gunmen to execute their hostages. At 9:06 pm on March 2, Noel, Moore and Eid were taken to the embassy basement, lined up against the wall and shot. "The terrorists fired from the floor upward, to prolong their agony of their victims by striking them first in the feet and legs, before administering the coup de grace," wrote Neil Livingstone and David Halevy in Inside the PLO (New York: Quill/William Morrow, 1990).

A few minutes later, Beirut PLO headquarters again radioed the terrorists. This time it was Arafat himself at the microphone. The PLO chairman asked whether the "Nahr al-Bard" code word had been understood. He was assured the instruction had already been carried out.
------
The Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat has salted away billions of pounds for the Palestinian Liberation Organisation in secret foreign bank accounts and investments, including property in London. The disclosure about the hidden wealth of his PLO comes amid deepening economic hardship in his Gaza and West Bank fiefdoms.
...The disclosures are also likely to prompt international donors, including the European Union countries, to ask why Mr Arafat is still demanding aid for his Palestinian authority. Nor will they have been impressed by his decision to invite Slobodan Milosevic, Yugoslavia's president, to Bethlehem.

- Tom Gross, London Sunday Telegraph, December 5, 1999

Sun Tzu · 09-21-2003, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mojo_PeiPei
JUst found this of the net, some good shit on this morally righteous leader.
http://www.yahoodi.com/peace/arafat.html#howdid

Here are a few snips since the page is rather lengthy...

Yasser Arafat, Fatah's leader, has claimed that he was born in Jerusalem. That may or may not be true. What is known is that he was brought up and educated in Egypt after his parents had emigrated from Palestine. It is important to note that they were NOT "refugees" or "exiles." They had simply moved to Egypt in the 1920s ... more than twenty years BEFORE the State of Israel came into existence! So if Yasser wants to fix blame where it belongs, he should be cursing on his parents' graves for making the choice to leave Palestine and stop blaming the Jews of Palestine who chose to stay and create a Jewish State.

Arafat's actual name was Abd al-Rahman abd al-Bauf Arafat al-Qud al-Husseini. He shortened it to obscure his kinship with the notorious Nazi and ex-Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Muhammed Amin al-Husseini."
-----------
According to the Jewish Press (March 14 1997) a tape of Arafat recorded by the Israeli Secret Service, ordering the execution of 2 American diplomats (Cleo Noel and George Moore) was given to the State Department. Sid Zion in the New York Daily News wrote:

"To treat Arafat like a statesman when you have him taped ordering the killing of American diplomats makes one wonder what John Gotti is doing in jail, forget about Jonathan Pollard!"

On the night of March 2, 1973, PLO gunmen pumped 40 bullets into the bodies of the US ambassador to Sudan and two other diplomats held hostage at the Saudi embassy in Khartoum.
Almost exactly 24 years later, the man who ordered the killings was warmly received in Washington DC by the leader of the American people.

US ambassador Cleo Noel, US charge d'affaires George Curtis Moore, and Belgian charge d'affaires Guy Eid were among a group of diplomats held hostage by eight members of Yasser Arafat's Black September a faction of the PLO during a reception at the Saudi embassy in the Sudanese capital. The terrorists demanded the release of Sirhan Bishara Sirhan, the Palestinian assassin of Robert Kennedy, as well as other Palestinians being held in Israel and European prisons.

After President Richard Nixon refused to negotiate, Arafat's commander, Abu Iyad, in touch with the terrorists by high-frequency transmitter from PLO headquarters in Beirut, gave the instruction "Remember Nahr al-Bard. The people's blood in the Nahr al-Bard cries out for vengeance. We and the rest of the world are watching you." The radio messages were intercepted by Israeli intelligence, and transcripts later handed to the US State Department and Nixon.

"Nahr al-Bard", a reference to a terrorist training facility in Lebanon which had been attacked by Israeli troops 11 days earlier, was the code phrase ordering the gunmen to execute their hostages. At 9:06 pm on March 2, Noel, Moore and Eid were taken to the embassy basement, lined up against the wall and shot. "The terrorists fired from the floor upward, to prolong their agony of their victims by striking them first in the feet and legs, before administering the coup de grace," wrote Neil Livingstone and David Halevy in Inside the PLO (New York: Quill/William Morrow, 1990).

A few minutes later, Beirut PLO headquarters again radioed the terrorists. This time it was Arafat himself at the microphone. The PLO chairman asked whether the "Nahr al-Bard" code word had been understood. He was assured the instruction had already been carried out.
------
The Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat has salted away billions of pounds for the Palestinian Liberation Organisation in secret foreign bank accounts and investments, including property in London. The disclosure about the hidden wealth of his PLO comes amid deepening economic hardship in his Gaza and West Bank fiefdoms.
...The disclosures are also likely to prompt international donors, including the European Union countries, to ask why Mr Arafat is still demanding aid for his Palestinian authority. Nor will they have been impressed by his decision to invite Slobodan Milosevic, Yugoslavia's president, to Bethlehem.

- Tom Gross, London Sunday Telegraph, December 5, 1999

I wont make this long just a statement and a question. The statement is for any that will include this in their processing when reading what you have provided and the question to is to help me to understand.

I read through a portion of the site you provided and its plainly obvious that it is a Zionist site. (or what I think Zionsm is)

Im confused about what Zionism is I suppose. I know there is a large portion of the Jewish population that is against what they're perceiving it to be. What is Zionism? Do you support the philosophy of Zionsm?

Mojo_PeiPei · 09-21-2003, 04:44 PM

Zionism WAS people back in the 19th century who were pushing for a Jewish home land where present day Israel is. I don't know if it stands for the something today.

Sun Tzu · 09-21-2003, 06:19 PM

When I got to the site and arrived at the conclusion that was (what I consider a clear cut example of the Zionist mindset) I attempted to look to see if it provided its outlook on Ariel Sharon. With its descriptive documentation on Arafat I gathered it must have info on him. It does indeed and other "heroes of the homeland" the link to him kept failing so I wasnt able to see. If you can get it to work could you please post. If Im right in my guess after posting the history they have of him; I will be able to show you what Zionism is.

Dragonlich · 09-22-2003, 09:45 AM

Sun Tzu, do you have any information that would disprove the story Mojo posted? If you do, please post it; if you don't, then don't dismiss it simply because you think it's "zionist" propaganda, or whatever.

/thanks.

Sun Tzu · 09-22-2003, 08:38 PM

What does IMO mean to you Dragonlich? Id would be great to speak to anyone that has had first hand experience or has been there with anything anyone talks about here. Do we need to really have this conversation because take the same standard and apply to it everyone including yourself. The small problem is the common agreement that conservatives own this and liberals that, arabs this; zionists that. Theres been a few threads about media bullshit; yet its all we have unless ofcourse you've been there to see any event. I do agree with one sign the site had; CNN lies. Do I want to go into a lengthy list of showing what your asking for, no because I know your intelligent enough to choose what information your going top believe and what your not. The site gives a detailed history of Arafat. My point isnt disputing whether the info it has is false (although some may be after reading other areas) but does it provide a foundation of credability by providing the truth on the other side or put Sharon on a pedestal as a saint. I was asking only for a copy and paste of the info on Sharon to be posted from the same source the info on Arafat was provided.

I’m going to point out a source any time I see it being totally biased in any direction Zionist, PLO, BLOW, SLOPPY JOE

That argument has been brought up before "prove it". . . can anyone prove anything here? I’m confident I can prove this to be a biased site, I don’t really need to because like I frequently say IMO---which seems to be the thing I need to do every third word when you’re reading my posts. Yeah I was a troll for posting dumb pictures of fake WMD, and I apologized for it.

Your same argument or point can be used in any direction, I wont doubt you'll probably call me on that providing some footage with Arafat lighting a fuse or caught in the act, maybe even CIA documents that have become declassified.

Notice I’m careful to always put phrases such as IMO, as I interpret, and so on specifically for people such as yourself that might take the things I say as a self proclaimed google expert in anything you want to know. I'd really like that be assumed; because in support of what you've stated very few of us have been in any scenario personally on the subjects we feel were educating everyone in. Please understand some of the things I state about this issue (Israel) I didn’t get from the net, or a book I’ve been there many times to just about every part of it, so I feel I have some good experience to draw my own interpretation of what’s going on.

Whenever I post a source I attempt to go as deep as possible (who funded it; their sources of info) to make sure it as neutral as possible; should everyone else do it? Each to their own I’m not telling anyone what they should do, but if it’s a subject I have some knowledge of and I see the potential distortions (or what I see as) I going to state it.

Whether or not it’s the words you’re putting in my mouth "propaganda" will also be each to their own as well. The point I was making is what Labell justifiably pointed out and called me on; this site X 1000.

There’s been other occasions where I wanted to reply with a similar statement, but didn’t so I will now. Everything is my opinion or interpretation. To let you know ahead I may fall short of putting IMO at the end of each sentence, but that’s the way it is; I hope and trust you'll take it as such because I don’t choose to explain this in this format again because while I have disagreements with people your the only one that has consistently brought up this perspective. If you do the only thing I ask is you provide the same material you wish to see from me. Count on me checking the sources (funding, the reporter themselves, and anything else I have the ability to. Frankly I think there’s allot of "terrorists" in high places all over that have done bad shit and are responsible for allot of innocent life lost but will never have to answer for their crimes. There’s a few more Kill threads Id like to start in addition to Arafat the terrible.

Lastly to indirectly answer your question I read every source someone posts fully with an open mind initially, the proof you’re asking for has the problem of everything I mentioned and the very argument you brought up. I respect you for stating what you see and stating your stance, but please count on me dismissing something I see biased.

/your welcome.

Lebell · 09-23-2003, 12:31 AM

Anyway, thank you for another well put together post, Son Tzu.

While I don't agree with you always, I definitely agree with you here.

We all have to recognize that all the news we see has it's own bias and deal with it as best we can, using as many sources as possible and combining it with our own experience, knowledge and common sense.

MSD · 09-23-2003, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by filtherton
Here's another perspective on the cheering palestinians:
http://www.labournet.net/world/0109/cnn1.html

Celebrating Palestinians: CNN scene was actually staged
Report by Rania Masri
Published: 27/09/01

Really? I think that most people would agree that Snopes is the source to trust on this kind of stuff.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/cnn.htm

Quote:

with many distortions, including a falsified by-line article from the student. He affirms that a hacker attacked his domain. Several E-mails have been sent on his behalf and those dating from 15.09.2001 should be ignored.

Among the distortions is the fact that UNICAMP would be analyzing the tape, which is absolutely false. The administration considers this alert definitive and will be careful to avoid new rumors.

Certainly CNN wasn't the only news organization to report on the reaction of some Palestinians to the events of September 11, as other outlets such as Reuters and the Los Angeles Times carried the same story. Also, other news outlets such as and The Jerusalem Post reported that journalists were threatened for capturing images of Palestinian celebrations, making real footage of the event harder to obtain:

Palestinian Authority actions to confiscate film footage of Palestinians celebrating the terror attacks on the US were logical to prevent the media from painting the wrong picture of Palestinian sentiment, Bassam Abu Sharif, an adviser to PA Chairman Yasser Arafat.
"This was a normal preventive act . . . we don't want to give more to the Zionist propaganda which portrays all Palestinians as terrorists," he said. "The idea is that these people were not allowed to film, because a small group of people on film would represent the Palestinian people as a whole."

The footage was real. It's a shame, in fact, that its provenance was doubted because the lives of journalists who have attempted to capture similar acts on video have been threatened. That this tape made it out at all is a miracle. But CNN's reputation was besmirched by a single person, a Brazilian student who reported (without verification) that the footage in question actually came from a 1991 report on "Palestinians celebrating the invasion of Kuwait," a copy of which was in the possession of one of his teachers. (Actually, the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq took place in 1990, and it's unlikely anyone captured images of Palestinians "celebrating" that event. If CNN had used similar footage, it probably came from the Palestinian reaction to Iraq's launching of missiles at Israel during the Persian Gulf War in 1991.)

Subsequent rumors that the "Israeli Defense Agency" sent a film crew to hand out candy to Palestinians in order to induce them into staging a "celebration" for the cameras appear to be equally unfounded. However, this issue does emphasize a point that appears to have been overlooked in the debate over whether video was re-used from a previous year or not: that images themselves are not the whole story. A news report can be accompanied by stock footage and still be fair and accurate, but a news report accompanied by current footage is not necessarily either fair or accurate. A simple news clip doesn't always provide us with enough context to discern what the people depicted in it are reacting to, why they're reacting the way they are, or whether their actions are representative of a large group of people or a very small one, as an Italian journalist in Beirut reported:

Trying to find our bearings, my husband and I went into an American-style cafe in the Hamra district, near Rue Verdun, rated as one of the most expensive shopping streets in the world. Here the cognitive dissonance was immediate, and direct. The café's sophisticated clientele was celebrating, laughing, cheering and making jokes, as waiters served hamburgers and Diet Pepsi. Nobody looked shocked, or moved. They were excited, very excited.
An hour later, at a little market near the U.S. Embassy, on the outskirts of Beirut, a thrilled shop assistant showed us, using his hands, how the plane had crashed into the twin towers. He, too, was laughing.

Once back at the house where we were staying, we started scanning the international channels. Soon came reports of Palestinians celebrating. The BBC reporter in Jerusalem said it was only a tiny minority. Astonished, we asked some moderate Arabs if that was the case. "Nonsense," said one, speaking for many. "Ninety percent of the Arab world believes that Americans got what they deserved."

An exaggeration? Rather an understatement. A couple of days later, we headed north to Tripoli, near the Syrian border. On the way, we read that Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, who donated blood in front of the cameras, was rejecting any suggestion that his people were rejoicing over the terrorist attack. "It was less than 10 children in Jerusalem," he said.

Last updated: 23 September 2001

I don't think I need to say much more.

Dragonlich · 09-23-2003, 09:52 AM

Sun Tzu, I had no intention of attacking you, nor insult you or whatever. I just reacted to what I saw as dismissal of news just because you don't like the person/site bringing it.

As far as I know, Arafat is indeed an Egyptian, and he is indeed a murderous bastard. The PLO has been responsible for many Israeli deaths, be they justified or not. As it's leader, Arafat is personally responsible for each and every one of those deaths. I do not believe he should have received the Nobel peace price in the first place, and would applaud his removal as Palestinian president. I do not think killing him would be a good idea, simply because it might inflame the situation even more, not because I feel it's morally wrong.

The point I was trying to make (and still am) was this: Arafat is a bastard, no matter who reports it. Just because a site is Zionist (whatever that may mean to you) does not mean their message pointing this fact out is necessarily wrong.

But that's just my opinion...

09-21-2003, 03:54 PM	#41 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	JUst found this of the net, some good shit on this morally righteous leader. http://www.yahoodi.com/peace/arafat.html#howdid Here are a few snips since the page is rather lengthy... Yasser Arafat, Fatah's leader, has claimed that he was born in Jerusalem. That may or may not be true. What is known is that he was brought up and educated in Egypt after his parents had emigrated from Palestine. It is important to note that they were NOT "refugees" or "exiles." They had simply moved to Egypt in the 1920s ... more than twenty years BEFORE the State of Israel came into existence! So if Yasser wants to fix blame where it belongs, he should be cursing on his parents' graves for making the choice to leave Palestine and stop blaming the Jews of Palestine who chose to stay and create a Jewish State. Arafat's actual name was Abd al-Rahman abd al-Bauf Arafat al-Qud al-Husseini. He shortened it to obscure his kinship with the notorious Nazi and ex-Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Muhammed Amin al-Husseini." ----------- According to the Jewish Press (March 14 1997) a tape of Arafat recorded by the Israeli Secret Service, ordering the execution of 2 American diplomats (Cleo Noel and George Moore) was given to the State Department. Sid Zion in the New York Daily News wrote: "To treat Arafat like a statesman when you have him taped ordering the killing of American diplomats makes one wonder what John Gotti is doing in jail, forget about Jonathan Pollard!" On the night of March 2, 1973, PLO gunmen pumped 40 bullets into the bodies of the US ambassador to Sudan and two other diplomats held hostage at the Saudi embassy in Khartoum. Almost exactly 24 years later, the man who ordered the killings was warmly received in Washington DC by the leader of the American people. US ambassador Cleo Noel, US charge d'affaires George Curtis Moore, and Belgian charge d'affaires Guy Eid were among a group of diplomats held hostage by eight members of Yasser Arafat's Black September a faction of the PLO during a reception at the Saudi embassy in the Sudanese capital. The terrorists demanded the release of Sirhan Bishara Sirhan, the Palestinian assassin of Robert Kennedy, as well as other Palestinians being held in Israel and European prisons. After President Richard Nixon refused to negotiate, Arafat's commander, Abu Iyad, in touch with the terrorists by high-frequency transmitter from PLO headquarters in Beirut, gave the instruction "Remember Nahr al-Bard. The people's blood in the Nahr al-Bard cries out for vengeance. We and the rest of the world are watching you." The radio messages were intercepted by Israeli intelligence, and transcripts later handed to the US State Department and Nixon. "Nahr al-Bard", a reference to a terrorist training facility in Lebanon which had been attacked by Israeli troops 11 days earlier, was the code phrase ordering the gunmen to execute their hostages. At 9:06 pm on March 2, Noel, Moore and Eid were taken to the embassy basement, lined up against the wall and shot. "The terrorists fired from the floor upward, to prolong their agony of their victims by striking them first in the feet and legs, before administering the coup de grace," wrote Neil Livingstone and David Halevy in Inside the PLO (New York: Quill/William Morrow, 1990). A few minutes later, Beirut PLO headquarters again radioed the terrorists. This time it was Arafat himself at the microphone. The PLO chairman asked whether the "Nahr al-Bard" code word had been understood. He was assured the instruction had already been carried out. ------ The Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat has salted away billions of pounds for the Palestinian Liberation Organisation in secret foreign bank accounts and investments, including property in London. The disclosure about the hidden wealth of his PLO comes amid deepening economic hardship in his Gaza and West Bank fiefdoms. ...The disclosures are also likely to prompt international donors, including the European Union countries, to ask why Mr Arafat is still demanding aid for his Palestinian authority. Nor will they have been impressed by his decision to invite Slobodan Milosevic, Yugoslavia's president, to Bethlehem. - Tom Gross, London Sunday Telegraph, December 5, 1999 __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

09-21-2003, 04:44 PM	#43 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Zionism WAS people back in the 19th century who were pushing for a Jewish home land where present day Israel is. I don't know if it stands for the something today. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

09-21-2003, 06:19 PM	#44 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	When I got to the site and arrived at the conclusion that was (what I consider a clear cut example of the Zionist mindset) I attempted to look to see if it provided its outlook on Ariel Sharon. With its descriptive documentation on Arafat I gathered it must have info on him. It does indeed and other "heroes of the homeland" the link to him kept failing so I wasnt able to see. If you can get it to work could you please post. If Im right in my guess after posting the history they have of him; I will be able to show you what Zionism is. __________________ *To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking*

09-22-2003, 08:38 PM	#46 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	What does IMO mean to you Dragonlich? Id would be great to speak to anyone that has had first hand experience or has been there with anything anyone talks about here. Do we need to really have this conversation because take the same standard and apply to it everyone including yourself. The small problem is the common agreement that conservatives own this and liberals that, arabs this; zionists that. Theres been a few threads about media bullshit; yet its all we have unless ofcourse you've been there to see any event. I do agree with one sign the site had; CNN lies. Do I want to go into a lengthy list of showing what your asking for, no because I know your intelligent enough to choose what information your going top believe and what your not. The site gives a detailed history of Arafat. My point isnt disputing whether the info it has is false (although some may be after reading other areas) but does it provide a foundation of credability by providing the truth on the other side or put Sharon on a pedestal as a saint. I was asking only for a copy and paste of the info on Sharon to be posted from the same source the info on Arafat was provided. I’m going to point out a source any time I see it being totally biased in any direction Zionist, PLO, BLOW, SLOPPY JOE That argument has been brought up before "prove it". . . can anyone prove anything here? I’m confident I can prove this to be a biased site, I don’t really need to because like I frequently say IMO---which seems to be the thing I need to do every third word when you’re reading my posts. Yeah I was a troll for posting dumb pictures of fake WMD, and I apologized for it. Your same argument or point can be used in any direction, I wont doubt you'll probably call me on that providing some footage with Arafat lighting a fuse or caught in the act, maybe even CIA documents that have become declassified. Notice I’m careful to always put phrases such as IMO, as I interpret, and so on specifically for people such as yourself that might take the things I say as a self proclaimed google expert in anything you want to know. I'd really like that be assumed; because in support of what you've stated very few of us have been in any scenario personally on the subjects we feel were educating everyone in. Please understand some of the things I state about this issue (Israel) I didn’t get from the net, or a book I’ve been there many times to just about every part of it, so I feel I have some good experience to draw my own interpretation of what’s going on. Whenever I post a source I attempt to go as deep as possible (who funded it; their sources of info) to make sure it as neutral as possible; should everyone else do it? Each to their own I’m not telling anyone what they should do, but if it’s a subject I have some knowledge of and I see the potential distortions (or what I see as) I going to state it. Whether or not it’s the words you’re putting in my mouth "propaganda" will also be each to their own as well. The point I was making is what Labell justifiably pointed out and called me on; this site X 1000. There’s been other occasions where I wanted to reply with a similar statement, but didn’t so I will now. Everything is my opinion or interpretation. To let you know ahead I may fall short of putting IMO at the end of each sentence, but that’s the way it is; I hope and trust you'll take it as such because I don’t choose to explain this in this format again because while I have disagreements with people your the only one that has consistently brought up this perspective. If you do the only thing I ask is you provide the same material you wish to see from me. Count on me checking the sources (funding, the reporter themselves, and anything else I have the ability to. Frankly I think there’s allot of "terrorists" in high places all over that have done bad shit and are responsible for allot of innocent life lost but will never have to answer for their crimes. There’s a few more Kill threads Id like to start in addition to Arafat the terrible. Lastly to indirectly answer your question I read every source someone posts fully with an open mind initially, the proof you’re asking for has the problem of everything I mentioned and the very argument you brought up. I respect you for stating what you see and stating your stance, but please count on me dismissing something I see biased. /your welcome. __________________ *To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking* Last edited by Sun Tzu; 09-23-2003 at 12:51 AM..

09-23-2003, 12:31 AM	#47 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Anyway, thank you for another well put together post, Son Tzu. While I don't agree with you always, I definitely agree with you here. We all have to recognize that all the news we see has it's own bias and deal with it as best we can, using as many sources as possible and combining it with our own experience, knowledge and common sense. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

09-22-2003, 09:45 AM	#45 (permalink)
Dragonlich 42, baby! Location: The Netherlands	Sun Tzu, do you have any information that would disprove the story Mojo posted? If you do, please post it; if you don't, then don't dismiss it simply because you think it's "zionist" propaganda, or whatever. /thanks.

09-23-2003, 09:52 AM	#49 (permalink)
Dragonlich 42, baby! Location: The Netherlands	Sun Tzu, I had no intention of attacking you, nor insult you or whatever. I just reacted to what I saw as dismissal of news just because you don't like the person/site bringing it. As far as I know, Arafat is indeed an Egyptian, and he is indeed a murderous bastard. The PLO has been responsible for many Israeli deaths, be they justified or not. As it's leader, Arafat is personally responsible for each and every one of those deaths. I do not believe he should have received the Nobel peace price in the first place, and would applaud his removal as Palestinian president. I do not think killing him would be a good idea, simply because it might inflame the situation even more, not because I feel it's morally wrong. The point I was trying to make (and still am) was this: Arafat is a bastard, no matter who reports it. Just because a site is Zionist (whatever that may mean to you) does not mean their message pointing this fact out is necessarily wrong. But that's just my opinion...