Troops in Iraq face pay cut - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

HarmlessRabbit · 08-14-2003, 08:13 AM

I'm flabbergasted on this one.

I think this is one issue that both conservatives and liberals can stand together on and say that this is completely stupid. The poor guys in Iraq are underpaid as it is, and now the government wants to cut their bonuses?

Sad.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...type=printable

Quote:

Troops in Iraq face pay cut
Pentagon says tough duty bonuses are budget-buster
Edward Epstein, Chronicle Washington Bureau
Thursday, August 14, 2003
©2003 San Francisco Chronicle | Feedback

Washington -- The Pentagon wants to cut the pay of its 148,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, who are already contending with guerrilla-style attacks, homesickness and 120- degree-plus heat.

Unless Congress and President Bush take quick action when Congress returns after Labor Day, the uniformed Americans in Iraq and the 9,000 in Afghanistan will lose a pay increase approved last April of $75 a month in "imminent danger pay" and $150 a month in "family separation allowances."

The Defense Department supports the cuts, saying its budget can't sustain the higher payments amid a host of other priorities. But the proposed cuts have stirred anger among military families and veterans' groups and even prompted an editorial attack in the Army Times, a weekly newspaper for military personnel and their families that is seldom so outspoken.

Congress made the April pay increases retroactive to Oct. 1, 2002, but they are set to expire when the federal fiscal year ends Sept. 30 unless Congress votes to keep them as part of its annual defense appropriations legislation.

Imminent danger pay, given to Army, Navy, Marine and Air Force members in combat zones, was raised to $225 from $150 a month. The family separation allowance, which goes to help military families pay rent, child care or other expenses while soldiers are away, was raised from $100 a month to $250.

Last month, the Pentagon sent Congress an interim budget report saying the extra $225 monthly for the two pay categories was costing about $25 million more a month, or $300 million for a full year. In its "appeals package" laying out its requests for cuts in pending congressional spending legislation, Pentagon officials recommended returning to the old, lower rates of special pay and said military experts would study the question of combat pay in coming months.

WHITE HOUSE DUCKS ISSUE

A White House spokesman referred questions about the administration's view on the pay cut to the Pentagon report.

Military families have started hearing about the looming pay reductions, and many aren't happy.

They say duty in Iraq is dangerous -- 60 Americans have died in combat- related incidents since President Bush declared an end to major combat operations in Iraq on May 1. Another 69 have been killed by disease, the heat or in accidents.

"Every person they see is a threat. They have no idea who is an enemy or who is a friend," said Larry Syverson, 54, of Richmond, Va., whose two sons, Brandon, 31, and Bryce, 25, are serving in Iraq. Syverson appeared with other military families at a Washington, D.C., news conference to publicize efforts to bring the troops home.

"You can get shot in the head when you go to buy a Coke," added Syverson, referring to an incident at a Baghdad University cafeteria on July 6 when an Army sergeant was shot and killed after buying a soda.

AFRAID FOR HER SON

Susan Schuman of Shelburne Falls, Mass., said her son, Army National Guard Sgt. Justin Schuman, had told her "it's really scary" serving in Samarra, a town about 20 miles from Saddam Hussein's ancestral hometown of Tikrit.

Schuman, who like Syverson has become active in a group of military families that want service personnel pulled out of Iraq, said the pay cut possibility didn't surprise her.

"It's all part of the lie of the Bush administration, that they say they support our troops," she said.

It's rare for the independent Army Times, which is distributed widely among Army personnel, to blast the Pentagon, the White House and the Congress. But in this instance, the paper has said in recent editorials that Congress was wrong to make the pay raises temporary, and the Pentagon is wrong to call for a rollback.

"The bottom line: If the Bush administration felt in April that conditions in Iraq and Afghanistan warranted increases in danger pay and family separation allowances, it cannot plausibly argue that the higher rates are not still warranted today," the paper said in an editorial in its current edition.

On Capitol Hill, members say the issue will be taken up quickly after the summer recess when a conference committee meets to negotiate conflicting versions of the $369 billion defense appropriations bill.

"You can't put a price tag on their service and sacrifice, but one of the priorities of this bill has got to be ensuring our servicemen and women in imminent danger are compensated for it," said Rep. Ellen Tauscher, D-Walnut Creek, a member of the House Armed Services Committee.

"Since President Bush declared 'mission accomplished' on May 1, 126 American soldiers have died in Iraq, and we are losing more every day," Tauscher said. "If that's not imminent danger, I don't know what is."

The Senate bill calls for making permanent the increases in combat pay -- the first in more than a decade -- for service in Iraq and Afghanistan. The House wants to pay more for service in those two countries than for such duties as peacekeeping in the Balkans. With the money saved, the House wants to increase the size of the active military by 6,200 troops.

What won't be clear until Congress returns is whether the Pentagon will lobby against keeping the increase.

The Pentagon reiterated Wednesday that its goal was for service personnel to rotate out of Iraq after a maximum of a year in that country. Units of the Army's 3rd Infantry Division, which played a major role in last March's invasion, have already come home.
By the numbers

U.S. troops in Iraq: 148,000

U.S. troops in Afghanistan: 9,000

Imminent danger pay: $225 per month, but is scheduled to drop to $150 a month

Family separation allowances: $250 per month, but scheduled to drop to $100 per month

Sparhawk · 08-14-2003, 08:33 AM

sportsrule101 · 08-14-2003, 08:48 AM

thats a new one, haven't heard it yet.

/off to do research

Kadath · 08-14-2003, 08:48 AM

"Yeah, could some of you guys over there hurry up and get killed already? It's getting expensive paying all of you. But thanks for liberating Iraq, and making us look good to the people and all that." -- US Military.
I hated this war, but I sure as hell don't blame the soldiers or wish this sort of injustice upon them. Way to go, Bush, er, I mean, the Pentagon!

j8ear · 08-14-2003, 10:12 AM

Torn on this. It was a temporary raise offered to the men and women over there retroactively. Every one realized it would expire. Or should reasonably have realized such.

Not renewing it isn't really a pay cut...unless you spin it venomously to spur your audience.

As a vet...I would love to have had more duckets in my bucket...but I walked away content. Had a few of those immeninent danger/flight deck/ jump/language/combat pay/hardship increases over a few years. They were nice while they lasted...and were usually paid when I couldn't really spend it. So the accumulated total after the fact was well.....bazaaam!

I'm a pretty firm believer that Service folk and teachers are relatively well compensated and have excellent bennies. I'm not on board with the 'there is a problem' camp on this one.

-bear

braisler · 08-14-2003, 10:19 AM

Holy shit! Read the article! What pay CUT?!? There is no pay cut! All they are doing is returning their hazardous duty and separate bonuses BACK to what they used to be. It looks to me like congress said, "We're going to give all of you a big raise!" in an attemt to garner support and more votes. Then the same foolish bastards (read congressmen) found out they couldn't afford the increase. So they all said a collective, "Oops, sorry." The pay increase never should have been made in the first place.
I have nothing but the highest regard for the young men and women of our country who are overseas putting themselves in harm's way. I, personally, do not agree with our administration's reasons for sending troops over there, but I do support our troops that are there. They had no more choice in the matter than I did. 
That said, I will say that I know a number of people in the military who get married just to pick up the "marriage bonus" as they call it. Apparently, from these friends inside the military, marriages of convenience (just for the separation pay) are pretty common.

The_Dude · 08-14-2003, 11:20 AM

ok, this is not the time to cut their pay.

they are already in the heat and facing a lot of other hardships, and now we're gonne reduce their paychecks?

BigGov · 08-14-2003, 01:14 PM

Troops have deserved to have their pay DOUBLED for years. It should at LEAST be $45,000 per year, closer to $50,000.

And magically, congress gives themselves huge pay raises whenever they feel like it.

I'll just quote the whole thing,

Quote:

SCARBOROUGH: It’s truly an honor to have you with us tonight. Now, if you’d like to help families of the soldiers killed in combat, I want to encourage you to contribute to the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund. Their address is; 1 Intrepid Square, West 46th Street and 12th Avenue. New York, New York, 10036.
And one other thing, if you’re sitting at home tonight, if you’ve got a pen and you’ve got a pad, I’m going to give you the number of Congress right now. This is the Congressional switchboard. OK. Write this number down. 202-225-3121. Call that number tomorrow. Tell your congressmen. Tell your Senators that you expect them to get this bill moving when they come back from their August recess.

The Intreped Fallen Heros Fund was created to give aid to families who have had a loss in the military. It was created because the amounts the spouse or family receive is about $7,000 and that's it. I beg of you if you have just $20 you're willing to spare, mail it to that address or go to this website: https://www.givedirect.org/give/give...ion=GC&CID=126 and donate. If you would like more information on the organization, go here: http://www.intrepidmuseum.org/founda...eroesfund.html

[EDIT] (Quick form to mail in with donation: http://www.intrepidmuseum.org/foundation_help.html) [/EDIT]

And as stated in the paragraph, call 202-225-3121 and tell everyone you know to call and tell them to tell everyone they know and have them call and tell your congressman and senator that the members of our military need better death benefits and a pay raise.

The_Dude · 08-14-2003, 01:21 PM

this should boost the morale quite a bit.

clavus · 08-14-2003, 01:34 PM

I get $400 for breeding, while the men and women who are protecting my ass get a pay-cut.

I continue to be baffled why my fellow Republicans support this administration full of self-serving hypocrites. Bush pretends to support the troops then shits on them...again. What do you expect from a guy who went AWOL during his tour of duty, then hid in his daddy's pocket to avoid the consequences?

It ain't right, I tell ya.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Washington -- The Pentagon wants to cut the pay of its 148,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, who are already contending with guerrilla-style attacks, homesickness and 120- degree-plus heat.

Unless Congress and President Bush take quick action when Congress returns after Labor Day, the uniformed Americans in Iraq and the 9,000 in Afghanistan will lose a pay increase approved last April of $75 a month in "imminent danger pay" and $150 a month in "family separation allowances."

The Defense Department supports the cuts, saying its budget can't sustain the higher payments amid a host of other priorities. But the proposed cuts have stirred anger among military families and veterans' groups and even prompted an editorial attack in the Army Times, a weekly newspaper for military personnel and their families that is seldom so outspoken.

Congress made the April pay increases retroactive to Oct. 1, 2002, but they are set to expire when the federal fiscal year ends Sept. 30 unless Congress votes to keep them as part of its annual defense appropriations legislation.

Imminent danger pay, given to Army, Navy, Marine and Air Force members in combat zones, was raised to $225 from $150 a month. The family separation allowance, which goes to help military families pay rent, child care or other expenses while soldiers are away, was raised from $100 a month to $250.

Last month, the Pentagon sent Congress an interim budget report saying the extra $225 monthly for the two pay categories was costing about $25 million more a month, or $300 million for a full year. In its "appeals package" laying out its requests for cuts in pending congressional spending legislation, Pentagon officials recommended returning to the old, lower rates of special pay and said military experts would study the question of combat pay in coming months.

BigGov · 08-14-2003, 01:45 PM

I know of a great organization that helps families of killed soldiers and I have the number of the switchboard for congress to get in contact with your representatives.

For some reason though, the topic I posted on it was deleted, so if you wish to have that information send a PM to me.

HarmlessRabbit · 08-14-2003, 03:09 PM

jimmy4

Nope, it's still there, and your post is still in there.

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...threadid=22355

thanks for the info, i'm considering donating.

funbob · 08-14-2003, 03:30 PM

News just in!!! The troops will NOT have a pay cut. At least that is what I read today.

BigGov · 08-14-2003, 03:43 PM

No, I made a completely on it's own topic in General Discussion and it was deleted. This topic was in General Discussion but it was moved here.

ctembreull · 08-14-2003, 04:56 PM

There's several things that astonish me about this. First is that the Republican Party has largely been the source of all of that "support our troops" rhetoric, accusing anyone with a stated anti-war position of not supporting the troops, on top of being "un-American". And yet now you have a Republican administration slashing the pay of the soldiers it sent, unilaterally, into harm's way. Why does the Republican Party hate America?

Even more disgustingly, though, is the White House's reaction to the publication of the report. According to the San Francisco Chronicle: "A White House spokesman referred questions about the administration's view on the pay cut to the Pentagon report.". This is incredible. Instead of publicly stating his supposed support for the troops, Bush's White House has kicked the ball back into the Pentagon's court, signaling its tacit approval of the move.

I am shocked and dismayed.

j8ear · 08-14-2003, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ctembreull
...slashing the pay of the soldiers it sent, unilaterally, into harm's way.

as am i

j8ear · 08-14-2003, 05:07 PM

man how do make those ~look~ like they're dripping with sarcasm?

seretogis · 08-14-2003, 07:40 PM

I agree with someone else on this thread. Double the amount that soldiers make, and make the politicians pay for it out of THEIR checks.

Markaz · 08-14-2003, 09:14 PM

This is asinine. The people who risk their life get next to jack, now they litterally are getting SHIT. When I become the prez, I'm going to kick all the illegals out, lock boarders, and make ALL millitary get 100k + a year. The least they should get is 100 grand + for putting their LIFE on the lines for our asses.

JamesS · 08-14-2003, 09:42 PM

It's sad that the administration would even consider such an act, the more so after smacking down opponents of the war with 'support the troops' rhetoric, but fortunately the admin backpedaled after the plan was leaked:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../08/15/PAY.TMP

Maybe 'The White House' should think before it acts.

2wolves · 08-15-2003, 05:06 AM

"Help is on the way." -G. W. Bush

With friends like these who needs terrorists?

2Wolves

chavos · 08-15-2003, 09:20 PM

having worked as a constituant advocate in MN for a few years, i can tell you that the #1 case load is veterans affairs...and much of that is the VA giving vets less than they deserve...a problem in and of itself. but the most heart breaking cases were when the DOD would dick with servicemen and women who were serving abroad with pay cuts, or service fees for their families living on base...any of that kind of crap. Two things i will always remember-how often this sort of thing went on, and how many people would call in tears. there is NO excuse for short changing the people who risk their lives in our name.

08-14-2003, 08:33 AM	#2 (permalink)
Sparhawk Dubya Location: VA	WTF. __________________ "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

08-14-2003, 08:48 AM	#3 (permalink)
sportsrule101 Insane	thats a new one, haven't heard it yet. /off to do research __________________ winning isn't everything but losing isn't anything

08-14-2003, 08:48 AM	#4 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	"Yeah, could some of you guys over there hurry up and get killed already? It's getting expensive paying all of you. But thanks for liberating Iraq, and making us look good to the people and all that." -- US Military. I hated this war, but I sure as hell don't blame the soldiers or wish this sort of injustice upon them. Way to go, Bush, er, I mean, the Pentagon! __________________ it's quiet in here

08-14-2003, 10:12 AM	#5 (permalink)
j8ear Gentlemen Farmer Location: Middle of nowhere, Jersey	Torn on this. It was a temporary raise offered to the men and women over there retroactively. Every one realized it would expire. Or should reasonably have realized such. Not renewing it isn't really a pay cut...unless you spin it venomously to spur your audience. As a vet...I would love to have had more duckets in my bucket...but I walked away content. Had a few of those immeninent danger/flight deck/ jump/language/combat pay/hardship increases over a few years. They were nice while they lasted...and were usually paid when I couldn't really spend it. So the accumulated total after the fact was well.....bazaaam! I'm a pretty firm believer that Service folk and teachers are relatively well compensated and have excellent bennies. I'm not on board with the 'there is a problem' camp on this one. -bear __________________ It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

08-14-2003, 10:19 AM	#6 (permalink)
braisler Addict Location: Midway, KY	Holy shit! Read the article! What pay CUT?!? There is no pay cut! All they are doing is returning their hazardous duty and separate <b>bonuses BACK</b> to what they used to be. It looks to me like congress said, "We're going to give all of you a big raise!" in an attemt to garner support and more votes. Then the same foolish bastards (read congressmen) found out they couldn't afford the increase. So they all said a collective, "Oops, sorry." The pay increase never should have been made in the first place.</P> I have nothing but the highest regard for the young men and women of our country who are overseas putting themselves in harm's way. I, personally, do not agree with our administration's reasons for sending troops over there, but I do support our troops that are there. They had no more choice in the matter than I did. </P> That said, I will say that I know a number of people in the military who get married just to pick up the "marriage bonus" as they call it. Apparently, from these friends inside the military, marriages of convenience (just for the separation pay) are pretty common. __________________ --- You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother. - Albert Einstein ---

08-14-2003, 11:20 AM	#7 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	ok, this is not the time to cut their pay. they are already in the heat and facing a lot of other hardships, and now we're gonne reduce their paychecks? __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

08-14-2003, 01:21 PM	#9 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	this should boost the morale quite a bit. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

08-14-2003, 01:34 PM	#10 (permalink)
clavus pow! Location: NorCal	Supporting the troops...with a pay-cut I get $400 for breeding, while the men and women who are protecting my ass get a pay-cut. I continue to be baffled why my fellow Republicans support this administration full of self-serving hypocrites. Bush pretends to support the troops then shits on them...again. What do you expect from a guy who went AWOL during his tour of duty, then hid in his daddy's pocket to avoid the consequences? It ain't right, I tell ya. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Washington -- The Pentagon wants to cut the pay of its 148,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, who are already contending with guerrilla-style attacks, homesickness and 120- degree-plus heat. Unless Congress and President Bush take quick action when Congress returns after Labor Day, the uniformed Americans in Iraq and the 9,000 in Afghanistan will lose a pay increase approved last April of $75 a month in "imminent danger pay" and $150 a month in "family separation allowances." The Defense Department supports the cuts, saying its budget can't sustain the higher payments amid a host of other priorities. But the proposed cuts have stirred anger among military families and veterans' groups and even prompted an editorial attack in the Army Times, a weekly newspaper for military personnel and their families that is seldom so outspoken. Congress made the April pay increases retroactive to Oct. 1, 2002, but they are set to expire when the federal fiscal year ends Sept. 30 unless Congress votes to keep them as part of its annual defense appropriations legislation. Imminent danger pay, given to Army, Navy, Marine and Air Force members in combat zones, was raised to $225 from $150 a month. The family separation allowance, which goes to help military families pay rent, child care or other expenses while soldiers are away, was raised from $100 a month to $250. Last month, the Pentagon sent Congress an interim budget report saying the extra $225 monthly for the two pay categories was costing about $25 million more a month, or $300 million for a full year. In its "appeals package" laying out its requests for cuts in pending congressional spending legislation, Pentagon officials recommended returning to the old, lower rates of special pay and said military experts would study the question of combat pay in coming months. __________________ Ass, gas or grass. Nobody rides for free.

08-14-2003, 01:45 PM	#11 (permalink)
BigGov WoW or Class... Location: UWW	I know of a great organization that helps families of killed soldiers and I have the number of the switchboard for congress to get in contact with your representatives. For some reason though, the topic I posted on it was deleted, so if you wish to have that information send a PM to me. __________________ One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

08-14-2003, 03:09 PM	#12 (permalink)
HarmlessRabbit Junkie Location: San Jose, CA	<b>jimmy4</b> Nope, it's still there, and your post is still in there. http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...threadid=22355 thanks for the info, i'm considering donating.

08-14-2003, 03:30 PM	#13 (permalink)
funbob Crazy Location: The Desert Southwest	News just in!!! The troops will NOT have a pay cut. At least that is what I read today.

08-14-2003, 03:43 PM	#14 (permalink)
BigGov WoW or Class... Location: UWW	No, I made a completely on it's own topic in General Discussion and it was deleted. This topic was in General Discussion but it was moved here. __________________ One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

08-14-2003, 04:56 PM	#15 (permalink)
ctembreull Crazy Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA, Earth	There's several things that astonish me about this. First is that the Republican Party has largely been the source of all of that "support our troops" rhetoric, accusing anyone with a stated anti-war position of not supporting the troops, on top of being "un-American". And yet now you have a Republican administration slashing the pay of the soldiers it sent, unilaterally, into harm's way. Why does the Republican Party hate America? Even more disgustingly, though, is the White House's reaction to the publication of the report. According to the San Francisco Chronicle: "A White House spokesman referred questions about the administration's view on the pay cut to the Pentagon report.". This is incredible. Instead of publicly stating his supposed support for the troops, Bush's White House has kicked the ball back into the Pentagon's court, signaling its tacit approval of the move. I am shocked and dismayed. __________________ Mac "If it's nae Scottish, it's crap!

08-14-2003, 05:07 PM	#17 (permalink)
j8ear Gentlemen Farmer Location: Middle of nowhere, Jersey	man how do make those ~look~ like they're dripping with sarcasm? __________________ It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

08-14-2003, 07:40 PM	#18 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	I agree with someone else on this thread. Double the amount that soldiers make, and make the politicians pay for it out of THEIR checks. __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

08-14-2003, 09:14 PM	#19 (permalink)
Markaz Tilted	This is asinine. The people who risk their life get next to jack, now they litterally are getting SHIT. When I become the prez, I'm going to kick all the illegals out, lock boarders, and make ALL millitary get 100k + a year. The least they should get is 100 grand + for putting their LIFE on the lines for our asses. __________________ Tu madre está muy sabrosa

08-14-2003, 09:42 PM	#20 (permalink)
JamesS Crazy Location: Land of the Hanging Chad	It's sad that the administration would even consider such an act, the more so after smacking down opponents of the war with 'support the troops' rhetoric, but fortunately the admin backpedaled after the plan was leaked: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../08/15/PAY.TMP Maybe 'The White House' should think before it acts. __________________ The tragedy of life is what dies inside a man while he lives. -- Albert Schweitzer

08-15-2003, 05:06 AM	#21 (permalink)
2wolves Psycho Location: Just outside the D.C. belt	"Help is on the way." -G. W. Bush With friends like these who needs terrorists? 2Wolves

08-15-2003, 09:20 PM	#22 (permalink)
chavos Banned Location: St. Paul, MN	having worked as a constituant advocate in MN for a few years, i can tell you that the #1 case load is veterans affairs...and much of that is the VA giving vets less than they deserve...a problem in and of itself. but the most heart breaking cases were when the DOD would dick with servicemen and women who were serving abroad with pay cuts, or service fees for their families living on base...any of that kind of crap. Two things i will always remember-how often this sort of thing went on, and how many people would call in tears. there is NO excuse for short changing the people who risk their lives in our name.