12-07-2010, 02:32 PM | #121 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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For the record:
Quote:
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12-07-2010, 10:00 PM | #123 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: Vancouver Island BC
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If any of the cables released by Assange save the US government any money, Assange might qualify for a reward of 10% of any savings under the US goverment's own "Whistleblower" program. Kind of ironic.
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Book 'em Danno |
12-08-2010, 08:42 AM | #124 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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'authorized journalist' could soon become reality
A while back, I made a comment about freedom of the press being severely restricted to 'authorized journalists' in a thread i'm sure that somewhere I was probably cop bashing. In that thread, someone scoffed at the notion that this could possibly happen. Well, it may soon become reality if Holder has his way.
An Assange prosecution would raise 1st Amendment issues | McClatchy Quote:
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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12-08-2010, 10:45 AM | #125 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: NYC
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This rape business with Assange is ridiculous. One of the reasons I detest broad criminal laws is that if the authorities are out to get you they can always find something to charge you with. So now with Assange it's apparently fucking without a condom. Bloody ridiculous. If they can't charge him with illegally stealing other people's data, which is what he and his confederates did which is so objectionable, then they should leave him free.
I remember that back in law school, when I took my criminal law course, it struck me that the laws are written so broadly that everyone is a criminal -- the only thing that saves most of us is the good sense of prosecutors and the limited resources allocated to law enforcement. But the problem with giving government agents discretion is that it's really easy for them to abuse it. I take the rule of law very very seriously. There is little that is worse than governmental lawlessness or standardless discretion. That is, simply put, tyranny. |
12-08-2010, 10:59 AM | #126 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Tennessee
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Yup I agree, either the fellow broke the law and can be charged or he didn't. Simply finding ANYTHING they can think of to throw at him to make a point or just "get him off the street" is sad and quite frankly making a mockery out of the law.
Absurd.
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“My god I must have missed it...its hell down here!”
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12-08-2010, 11:10 AM | #127 (permalink) |
Currently sour but formerly Dlishs
Super Moderator
Location: Australia/UAE
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Loq - but he didnt break the law. someone else within the US government breached that trust and passed the information onto wikileaks.
so really, Assange has done absolutely nothing illegal, probably cant be charged, or wont be charged unless they come up with a retrospective law to pin him to. hes an aussie that lived in sweden who recieved documents from someone who stole them from the US government. we can speak about whether something is morally right or morally wrong, but essentially, if he hasnt broken the law then he should be free.
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An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy |
12-08-2010, 11:29 AM | #128 (permalink) | |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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as the details of this charge have surfaced, it's strained credulity...even as it is apparently the law in sweden that a broken condom can result in a rape charge in the context of consensual sex. why that would be the case, i've no idea--not an expert on swedish law by any means.
there has been some information floating about that's labels assange's accuser as someone who's been involved with anti-castro groups etc. but i've no idea how credible it is so haven't put anything here or relayed it elsewhere. this feels like a put-up job, frankly, as it does to alot of people. beyond that, i agree with loquitor, above. this is an interesting take, from political scientist henry farrell Quote:
The Monkey Cage: State power and the response to Wikileaks cite from here: WikiLeaks US embassy cables: live updates | News | guardian.co.uk i'm also quite interested in operation payback, but havent the time at the moment to make a post about it. anyone else following this? ---------- Post added at 07:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 PM ---------- and this is a press release in support of wikileaks signed by daniel ellsberg, among others. strong stuff: Ex-Intelligence Officers, Others See Plusses in WikiLeaks Disclosures -- Institute for Public Accuracy (IPA)
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
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12-08-2010, 11:30 AM | #129 (permalink) |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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The article that smeth posted last week revealed a little more detail about the rape charges. They primarily extend from an encounter with a woman that weekend with whom he was having sex without a condom. She claims that she asked him to stop when she realized he wasn't wearing one and he didn't...or something. It's not clear.
The incident with the broken condom occurred with another woman and an acquaintance of the woman above. After that weekend, the 'no condom' woman decided to go to the police and the 'broken condom' woman went with her to lend support, not intending to press charges but related her story and, it's unclear how, ended up pressing charges as well. It's all very puzzling and confusing. But not quite as simple as 'his condom broke.' One thing it is safe to conclude, Mssr. Assange likes to get biz-ay with the lay-lay.
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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
12-08-2010, 11:39 AM | #130 (permalink) |
Currently sour but formerly Dlishs
Super Moderator
Location: Australia/UAE
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from what ive read the two women coincidentally met when one of them called his office asking for him because he said he'd call. one of them was working in his office temporarily. thats when they realised they had met before and that he'd been chopping them both in the space of a few days.
smells like a case of a woman (women?) scorned.
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An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy |
12-08-2010, 11:48 AM | #131 (permalink) | |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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Quote:
From what I understand, though, the most he would face if found guilty was a fine. So I've been a little mystified as to why he would go to so much trouble to avoid arrest considering what's at stake.
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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
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12-08-2010, 12:31 PM | #132 (permalink) |
Still Free
Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!
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MM-
I believe his fear is that, once arrested in Sweden, he would be turned over to U.S. authorities - as there is an extradition treaty in place. This being premised on the U.S. actually pressing charges against him.
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Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly." |
12-08-2010, 12:35 PM | #133 (permalink) |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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yes, I can understand that.
Even though it seems unlikely from my perspective, it must be a looming possibility from his.
__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
12-08-2010, 12:42 PM | #134 (permalink) |
Still Free
Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!
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There is supporting evidence that the U.S. has retained people without charges or trial. While I seriously doubt Sweden would just hand him over...
__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly." |
12-08-2010, 12:56 PM | #135 (permalink) |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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uh, yeah.
I get the feeling there is a lot that we don't know about this particular situation.
__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
12-08-2010, 01:21 PM | #136 (permalink) |
Sir, I have a plan...
Location: 38S NC20943324
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Our government would be remiss if he is not charged with espionage. What he did clearly violates 18 U.S.C. § 798 and he should be punished.
I am all for greater transparency in government, but I also realize that for our national interests to be served there must be a reasonable expectation of privacy in diplomatic communications. There are second and third order effects of revealing this information, and I do not trust an anarchist egomaniac to properly decipher what those are, or act accordingly if he did. This is not a case of whistleblowing, this is simply the dumping of raw information with absolutely no context or prior greivance.
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Fortunato became immured to the sound of the trowel after a while.
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12-08-2010, 01:38 PM | #137 (permalink) |
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Location: ❤
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roachboy writes:
"i'm also quite interested in operation payback, but havent the time at the moment to make a post about it. anyone else following this?" Read more: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-...#ixzz17YbEND6m I've been reading about what they are doing. I know very little about computers & the language & nothing about hacking. This type of disruption is very effective & I my lack of computer knowledge brain wonders why it hasn't been used more often. It's a bit overwhelming. Computers go down & transactions halt. At the grocery store & bank -during a recent power outage, the clerks stood blinking & foundered. "Uhh, you'll just have to come back later." Quite the revolutionary tool that I'm surprised hasn't been used sooner. |
12-08-2010, 01:48 PM | #139 (permalink) | ||
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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it may be helpful but the fact is that it's not obvious that the statute applies.
this is not a clear-cut situation. but read on: Quote:
further, i think that the political damage that would happen as a function of making a martyr of assange far outweighs any imaginable benefit: Quote:
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
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12-08-2010, 05:38 PM | #141 (permalink) | ||
Upright
Location: lotus land 3rd igloo on the right
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Quote:
as in "English haiku do not adhere to the strict syllable count found in Japanese haiku, and the typical length of haiku appearing in the main English-language journals is 10–14 syllables. Some haiku poets are concerned with their haiku being expressed in one breath and the extent to which their haiku focus on "showing" as opposed to "telling". This is the genius of haiku using an economy of words to paint a multi-tiered painting, without "telling all". Or as Matsuo Bashō puts it, "The haiku that reveals seventy to eighty percent of its subject is good. Those that reveal fifty to sixty percent, we never tire of... nah just my way of posting sorry if you tire of it so quickly (youre suggesting im abby normal?) ---------- Post added at 05:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:42 PM ---------- [/COLOR] Quote:
palin yup could have been the VP we'd be dealing with now oh my frikin god narrowly escaped that one "also targeted Amazon, the internet retailer, which provoked their fury by withdrawing server space being used by WikiLeaks to host the government documents. PayPal admitted it blocked payments to the group – which is embarrassing the US government by steadily releasing a cache of more than 250,000 cables – amid pressure from the State department. Anonymous's "distributed denial of service" attacks, which have become the standard weapon of cyber warfare, appeared to have temporarily crippled the companies websites last night. They also brought down the sites of Swedish prosecutors, who are pursuing Julian Assange, tis elementary my dear watson
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never stop questioning,curiosity has its own rewards Last edited by mrmacq; 12-08-2010 at 05:48 PM.. |
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12-08-2010, 06:44 PM | #142 (permalink) | |
Currently sour but formerly Dlishs
Super Moderator
Location: Australia/UAE
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Quote:
does this law apply to american nationals only? or is its jurisdictions against foreign nationals? how far reaching is its jurisdiction if the crime was commited in another country and not american soil? i guess this is the broad criminal laws Loq was talking about
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An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy |
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12-08-2010, 07:31 PM | #143 (permalink) | |
Upright
Location: lotus land 3rd igloo on the right
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Quote:
theres some down there that suggest its treasonous hello? "or for treason charges that have been suggested by U.S. politicians, " now why am i laughing my butt off? "Violation of allegiance toward one's country or sovereign, especially the betrayal of one's country by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely ..." and here i thought we employed the best-est and brightest to run this world of ours oh silly me
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never stop questioning,curiosity has its own rewards |
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12-08-2010, 08:09 PM | #144 (permalink) | |
Crazy, indeed
Location: the ether
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12-08-2010, 09:16 PM | #145 (permalink) |
Upright
Location: lotus land 3rd igloo on the right
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"Our government would be remiss if he is not charged with espionage. What he did clearly violates 18 U.S.C. § 798 and he should be punished. "
Read more: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/newrepl...#ixzz17aO91I9Y 798. Disclosure of classified information (a) Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information— (1) concerning the nature, preparation, or use of any code, cipher, or cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or (2) concerning the design, construction, use, maintenance, or repair of any device, apparatus, or appliance used or prepared or planned for use by the United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes; or (3) concerning the communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or (4) obtained by the processes of communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes— Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both. (b) As used in subsection (a) of this section— The term “classified information” means information which, at the time of a violation of this section, is, for reasons of national security, specifically designated by a United States Government Agency for limited or restricted dissemination or distribution; The terms “code,” “cipher,” and “cryptographic system” include in their meanings, in addition to their usual meanings, any method of secret writing and any mechanical or electrical device or method used for the purpose of disguising or concealing the contents, significance, or meanings of communications; The term “foreign government” includes in its meaning any person or persons acting or purporting to act for or on behalf of any faction, party, department, agency, bureau, or military force of or within a foreign country, or for or on behalf of any government or any person or persons purporting to act as a government within a foreign country, whether or not such government is recognized by the United States; The term “communication intelligence” means all procedures and methods used in the interception of communications and the obtaining of information from such communications by other than the intended recipients; The term “unauthorized person” means any person who, or agency which, is not authorized to receive information of the categories set forth in subsection (a) of this section, by the President, or by the head of a department or agency of the United States Government which is expressly designated by the President to engage in communication intelligence activities for the United States. (c) Nothing in this section shall prohibit the furnishing, upon lawful demand, of information to any regularly constituted committee of the Senate or House of Representatives of the United States of America, or joint committee thereof. (d) (1) Any person convicted of a violation of this section shall forfeit to the United States irrespective of any provision of State law— (A) any property constituting, or derived from, any proceeds the person obtained, directly or indirectly, as the result of such violation; and (B) any of the person’s property used, or intended to be used, in any manner or part, to commit, or to facilitate the commission of, such violation. (2) The court, in imposing sentence on a defendant for a conviction of a violation of this section, shall order that the defendant forfeit to the United States all property described in paragraph (1). (3) Except as provided in paragraph (4), the provisions of subsections (b), (c), and (e) through (p) of section 413 of the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970 (21 U.S.C. 853 (b), (c), and (e)–(p)), shall apply to— (A) property subject to forfeiture under this subsection; (B) any seizure or disposition of such property; and (C) any administrative or judicial proceeding in relation to such property, if not inconsistent with this subsection. (4) Notwithstanding section 524 (c) of title 28, there shall be deposited in the Crime Victims Fund established under section 1402 of the Victims of Crime Act of 1984 (42 U.S.C. 10601) all amounts from the forfeiture of property under this subsection remaining after the payment of expenses for forfeiture and sale authorized by law. (5) As used in this subsection, the term “State” means any State of the United States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and any territory or possession of the United States. ah yes the united states version of whats right the same ones that wont recognise the international courts or even those courts its deemed as friends your expressions of self righteous selflessness is getting tiresome the bully with the big stick face it a lie was exposed welcome to life now deal with it responsibly (if at all able) or perhaps we'll see his name on the gitmo registry ---------- Post added at 09:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 PM ---------- ya know the more this goes on the more im apt to think you guys got more you wish hidden circling those wagons like past interventions of yours werent enough the great satan? (wears a white (well sort of discoloUred hat)) i sit here in amazement
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never stop questioning,curiosity has its own rewards Last edited by mrmacq; 12-08-2010 at 09:02 PM.. |
12-09-2010, 07:42 AM | #146 (permalink) |
Still Free
Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!
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mrmacq,
So it is how you post. Fair enough: The trouble is that it makes your post take up too much damned space on the screen and makes it far more difficult to read and process. It disrupts what could be a stimulating discussion ( Your posts certainly have great content. ) with a sort of " look at me " narcissism. It's up to you if you want to keep doing it. Personally, I'm less likely to read them, although others may disagree. Don't mind how I posted this, it's just how I roll.
__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly." |
12-09-2010, 08:43 AM | #148 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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figures that the ultra-right would see in this an excuse to threaten one of their favorite Persecuting Others in the ny times.
it makes sense, given that one of the main consequences of the leaks about iraq and afghanistan is evidence for a strong case against members of the bush administration for war crimes. clearly the problem is the ny times. ---------- Post added at 04:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:20 PM ---------- addition: here's a pew research poll regarding popular reaction in the us to wikileaks. Public Sees WikiLeaks as Harmful - Pew Research Center it appears that people still like to like what they're told they like to like in the way they're told they like to like those things.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
12-09-2010, 09:12 AM | #149 (permalink) |
Still Free
Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!
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I don't think there is a single news organization who has not published one of these cables or leaks. I don't see how one could reasonably apply Debaser's statute to every news organization. But, how will it look if one targets only wikileaks? The nature by which the classified information was published makes it difficult to say "this and only this organization can be held criminally liable." Surely, we can foresee the NYT simply stating, "we didn't release it, we simply reported on the release." I believe I've also heard that, at some point, information becomes common knowledge and news organizations can report on it without risk - the Valerie Plame affair comes to mind.
Suffice to say, from my point of view, it is complicated to prosecute on this matter and any action will appear politically motivated since the line is so difficult to draw. I might add, I believe Assange is just itching to find a reason to release that password. I don't hold him in high regard, so I believe he's capable of inventing one.
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Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly." |
12-09-2010, 10:04 AM | #150 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: New York
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Quote:
Al Queda and other terrorist groups have no interest in playing by the Geneva Convention, the rules of the Marquis of Queensbury or any other rules. I see no reason why we should make it easier for them to track down people who have helped the US in the past with confidential information, or why a list of sites sensitive to national security should be published. Sure, a bright terrorist group could figure some of this out on their own, but why help them? I might not agree with the NYT on some issues, but as long as they aren't compromising US security and people's safety, no big deal. |
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12-09-2010, 10:12 AM | #151 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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Quote:
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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12-09-2010, 10:16 AM | #152 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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for once, i agree with dk.
and it's bizarre to read conservatives who in any other context talk about how evil and irrational the state is now flocking to defend its prerogatives to conceal information from them.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
12-09-2010, 10:47 AM | #153 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: New York
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Given a choice between people in the government who have the background in national security and military issues and people like wikileaks or news reporters whose purpose seems to be to generate scandals to report about, I'll choose the government. The media has its own agenda too and shouldn't always be trusted either.
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12-09-2010, 12:24 PM | #155 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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Quote:
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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12-09-2010, 12:34 PM | #156 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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Quote:
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12-09-2010, 12:39 PM | #157 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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when it comes to almost everything, conservatives assume that the people who work for the state are entirely incompetent--they don't understand the manly man world of bidness, they work to actively "punish success" by having the audacity to favor social stability over individual gain, the "produce crisis" by interfering with the magickal operations of the Market....but now, in this context, the state is manned to the gills with skilled professionals who know better than anyone else possibily could what's best for everyone.
i believe this is what we call horseshit.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
12-09-2010, 12:43 PM | #158 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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Quote:
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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12-09-2010, 01:28 PM | #160 (permalink) |
Sir, I have a plan...
Location: 38S NC20943324
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Before we get too much hyperbole in here let me just state this:
There is a balance that needs to be struck between totalitarianism and anarchy, and this is not it. What great scandal or corruption was outed? How does publishing a list of sensitive sites benefit the democratic process? I am all for whistleblowing that solves a problem, but this has done no such thing. It is in all respects like a kid copying his sisters diary and hanging it up around the high school. ---------- Post added at 06:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:25 PM ---------- And what lie was that?
__________________
Fortunato became immured to the sound of the trowel after a while.
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Tags |
diplomacy, dump, wikileaks |
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