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Well, if you make outrageous statements about an ethnic group that you can't in any way back up, that is actually part of the definition of racist. And what the fuck does Obama have to do with anything? |
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The kids were trolling. No matter what people say, that is a fact. |
I hope you used that wording specifically because while it is demonstrated time and time again that kids may as well be chattel slaves for the way most schools treat them the SCotUS has also decided time and time again that Students' rights "do not end at the schoolhouse door" and even that the dress code can't infringe on their freedom of speech if a political message includes something against the dress code as an inherent part of the message.
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Just a few thoughts because I'm killing a little time:
I can see the point of view of the students to some extent here, I understand that this is a celebration for Mexican-Americans but at the same time being Americans themselves should the American flag really be offensive or seen as incendiary? Isn't it their flag too? I can see having pride in ones heritage and I would support anyone's right to proudly do so, however I would ask why celebrating ones Mexican heritage has to mean that somehow the US flag becomes offensive? Just a question I'm mulling over in my own mind I suppose. This story (to me) would make more sense if they were wearing shirts with anti Mexican slogans or blatantly going out of their way to be offensive towards Hispanics but were they really doing either by wearing an American flag? Is this really the same as say wearing a confederate flag t-shirt to an African American rally or showing up to a gay pride parade decked out with offensive anti gay slogans? That line doesn't seem like it was crossed here weather or not the students were trolling or just wearing what they always wear. So I guess I can see how being called out for wearing an American flag could be a little off putting to those on the outside looking in (as in "why would that be offensive? I don't get it"). However as I stated before there is probably more to this story then is being reported and as usual the truth of the whole matter lies somewhere in the middle. I dunno, again just a few thoughts I figured I'd throw out there for some discussion as its kind of an intersting topic about where the line should be on what should and shouldn't be considered offensive. |
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Fine here are my links and now tell me why yours are better and blah blah blah....
Impacts Of Illegal Immigration: Crime Just a sampling from the above link: Quote:
Immigrations Human Cost Immigration and Crime: Assessing a Conflicted Issue | Center for Immigration Studies Shall this person you say making absurd claims continue? How about a bankrupt medical system in the southwest? Quote:
Illegal Immigration Costs California $10.5 Billion Annually Quote:
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Isn't there a thread about illegal immigration already? Why is it that a story that mentions Hispanic students, but not their legal status, is now about the costs of illegal immigration?
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No wonder this place is dying. Quote:
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pan---it's pretty obvious what's happening here (again)...and it's not a matter of your viewpoints per se.
it's a matter of there being informal standards for what constitutes a discussion, which dovetails with what amounts to a collective understanding of what a statement is that someone advances, what you can say about it and what is expected. you seem to have a separate understanding of what a viewpoint is, like it's just some statement that you can fashion that reflects something of how you see things at that moment and isn't necessarily amenable to either evidence or argument. you just think it at that moment. which is fine in reality, but it's a strange position to take in a politics forum on a messageboard in which the only mode of interacting there is between us is discussion or debate. but you know this. you've been around here for a long time. so why do you act as though you don't understand what the community does in the politics forum and instead get all offended if you get called out on positions you adopt? if you didn't want the debate, you wouldn't write them here. if you just wanted to say what you think you can do that anywhere. so why act as though discussion/disagreement is a Problem in a forum that's about discussion/disagreement? i dont get it. |
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In any case, this story is about white kids wearing the American flag and Hispanic kids taking offense. At no point during the story or the discussion was it disclosed that the Hispanic kids who took offense were here illegally. In fact, even if some were here illegally, I guarantee that the majority of Hispanic kids in that high school are legal citizens. So in a story about Hispanic kids taking offense to the American flag, you somehow take that as an issue related to illegal immigration. That by itself shows an extraordinary amount of ignorance. And then you post a bunch of stuff that actually have nothing to do with your claim. Whatever the costs of illegal immigration in Arizona, Texas, and so on, you've yet to show how you personally have been expected to learn Spanish, or what the costs of illegal immigration are to you, living in Canton, Ohio. So, again, you've replied to this thread by assuming that all Hispanics are here as the result of illegal immigration, and by pointing out alleged costs of that illegal immigration that don't really affect you in Ohio. In the end, this tells me a lot more about how you view Hispanics than about what you've really had to do to accommodate them. |
First this was the question I finally answered:
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you basically want to say that none of my federal tax dollars that could go to education, rebuilding the infrastructure and so on, nor the benefits of that money spent on illegal aliens affects me. Which is utter and total bullshit. Then you very thinly veil outright calling me prejudice against ALL Hispanics. 1st: I did in no way insinuate that the school kids and community attending and living in that district had ANY illegal immigration ties. But you jumped in and pretended I did. 2nd: You have NO idea of who I am personally but will thinly veil that I am prejudiced against all Hispanics. I'm not I have great friends from my days in Phoenix when I and several Hispanics of Mexican heritage but US citizens worked on recovery from our addictions. I dated a couple Latina females while there. the only prejudice I have is against ILLEGAL immigrants regardless of heritage or ethnicity.To thinly veil your saying I am prejudiced against the WHOLE is very wrong and I would like an apology. I know it won't come because you see nothing wrong in what you did. Again, you hounded me AFTER I had rejected answering the question... you decided it was far more important that I answer that question than anything else I had written (that was on topic, oh by the way)... tells me you could not truly argue my points there and thus you would try to play a game... The unfortunate thing for you is I have exposed your game and while you will sit there and say "there was no game... blah blah blah"... I think I have exposed it very well and in a way that the casual observers here would see it also. So all you left leaning trollistic asses who want to run the board so that you can all agree with each other and show off your pseudo-intellect can use this to just pat each other on the back and not truly debate ANYTHING. Only problem is you were caught and now will come even more attacks .... but this is it, I am done commenting here so attack all you want. I exposed you for what you are. You don't want debate you want games you think you can win... unfortunately you were exposed and lost this round. (I shouldn't have to add this but I will.... anyone who has gone into a longer term addiction treatment, knows how close you become to those there. They became like brothers to me. If I were prejudiced I would have been like some who refused to get close to them. I got close to everyone that I believed wanted recovery and it was 2 Mexican heritaged Americans that helped me more than just about anyone else, save my best friend there.) |
i think the dishonesty is in personally taking credit for billions of federal tax dollars. My guess is that less than $20 of the money YOU contribute to the federal kitty is going to the benefit of illegals. The whole "billions of dollars of MY TAX MONEY" thing is a red herring and intellectually dishonest, especially when the question posed to you was "how does it affect you personally"
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It's funny that you shout about "not truly debating anything" when you want us to believe your claims with no evidence just because you believe it. Quote:
You came in this discussion with the 'MERICA RULEZ mindset when in reality these kids were being dickheads and deserved what they got. You WANTED to twist this into a "what is America coming to" argument, so you did. Nevermind the kids violating the dress code and purposely trying to disrespect kids at their school. If it involves patriotism, ANYTHING GOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I typically disagree with most of the "left leaning trollistic asses" on here and am neither demo or repub so don't even start. |
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As for the OP, the kids knew what they were doing and jus ttrying to stir up shit, and it worked. |
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There was no attack, and there is no game. This is a thread about white students wearing American flags, and Hispanic students taking offense to them. To which you replied: Quote:
Your only reply so far was to point to the costs of illegal immigration, which happen mostly at the state level. So, considering this thread was not about illegal immigration, and considering you don't live in a state where there is a significant illegal population, what are we to conclude? |
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I'm up for good debate. What we have here 99% of the time is lack of and more people wanting to play the games I have shown above. Quote:
The ONLY reason I even answered this is I do have respect for you Lasereth, I am sorry you think the way you do of me.... but c'est la vie, n'est pas? |
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To turn that into "being hounded" is a also a poor defense mechanism when you dont want to engage in honest debate....particularly from one who preaches "uniting, not dividing." |
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I guess I just found it odd that the discussion went the way it did. You did post links to defend your point. |
Pan, put down the keyboard and slowly walk away. These children wear helmets for a reason.
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I suspect that the average person with a Mexican background couldnt care less about someone wearing a shirt like that - but stuff like this does show why school uniform isnt such a bad idea.
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School uniforms in public schools are a bad idea. One of my highschools had one JUST for PE and pretty much right after they implimented it PE became mandatory every year and they tied in their drivers ed program to PE and either got it set so you couldn't get a license without taking that class or just bullshitted us by telling us that.
The uniforms were 13 freakin dollars for a generic grey tshirt with the school's logo ironed on and a generic set of blue gym shorts that didn't even have decent drawstrings or pockets. Not having your uniform was grounds for a failing grade with additional penalty points, in effect a negative grade. When I left they were strongly considering adding in rules about the uniform's "fitness" and counting an "unfit" uniform as not wearing one. Naturally you'd then need to buy another. |
Yeah, but the benefit is you dont have to worry about what flag people are weaing on their shirt or any other crap like kids dressing like Marilyn Manson or whatever... everyone has to conform to a basic standard
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