03-24-2010, 06:49 PM | #201 (permalink) | |
Confused Adult
Location: Spokane, WA
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I seriously want a baseball bat and immunity for a day sometimes. It's a problem with politics right now, people aren't even representing facts, just feelings. Factually speaking, if Obama came up with a valid self sustaining plan for public health care, the first reaction by repubs is to envision the worst case scenario and compare it to socialist policy, or go "my god, it's just like the French!" and I'm sure you guys remember the debacle over "Freedom Fries" Why is it so hard for them to just go "well mr president, I reviewed the plan and section blah blah is going to be a problem, it simply wont fund this bill properly, the negative impact of this passing would be..." but they wont do that, they get all emotional, go outside and encite the teabagger party to start yelling and jeering and shouting racist remarks, don't even read the bill, and just shut it down out of ignorance and polarity. Last edited by Shauk; 03-24-2010 at 06:59 PM.. |
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03-24-2010, 06:56 PM | #202 (permalink) |
warrior bodhisattva
Super Moderator
Location: East-central Canada
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That's what I don't get. If socialism is so "evil" or ridden with "failure," then why is Canada's "socialized" banking system now the model for the world?
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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot |
03-24-2010, 07:05 PM | #203 (permalink) |
Addict
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I have noticed a lot of people complaining about the personal mandate. I understand the sentiment behind this and why it would make some feel uncomfortable, but the policy logic is extremely compelling.
To be specific, the personal mandate and the coverage of pre-existing conditions go hand in hand. It is difficult to have the latter without the former, else the revenue model breaks down. If we cover pre-existing conditions but there is no mandate, then people can sit back and wait to get ill before acquiring insurance. Then, because you can't be denied for a pre-existing condition, the insurance company is forced to take you and begin paying out for you immediately. The trouble is that the incentives create a situation where at any given time, everyone who is paying their premiums is drawing 10-100x that amount in benefits, while those who would normally represent the healthy many, whose premiums ordinarily subsidize the sick few, would have an incentive to stay out of the picture. After all, why bother paying insurance unless (until) you are sure you will use it? The plan is not even remotely affordable without the personal mandate. The mandate is necessary for the bill to be economically sound. |
03-24-2010, 07:09 PM | #204 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: San Antonio, TX
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I find your derailment of the thread very rude. I would like you to please stay on topic in this thread. |
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03-24-2010, 07:57 PM | #205 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: My House
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I will find you the part of the bill that states that the government will be in control of the hospitals, it's that simple, the government will be in control of the hospitals, clinics and doctors that accept the new government health care and those hospitals that do not accept the government inclusive health care insurance will be penalized. You will have to pay for private insurance at a higher premium to be able to cover private hospital fees. It's in the bill.
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you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes. |
03-24-2010, 08:14 PM | #206 (permalink) | ||||||||
Junkie
Location: San Antonio, TX
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I'm going to assume the quotes you give are what you say they are.
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What are they reporting on, exactly? "...plan or coverage benefits and health care provider reimbursement structures that..." "(A) improve health outcomes through...." - various methods, nothing sinister ‘‘(B) implement activities to prevent hospital readmissions..." - "hospital readmission" means they didn't fix me the first time and I had to go back. Sounds like a good thing to prevent. ‘‘(C) implement activities to improve patient safety and reduce medical errors..." - Improving patient safety and reducing medical errors are good. ‘‘(D) implement wellness and health promotion activities." - Also good. I don't see anything bad here - if there was something to indicate the patient privacy or doctor/patient privilege were being overridden, then it would indeed be catastrophic - but the text of the bill that you quote here plainly states that the reporting is on the *benefits* or *reimbursement structures* that the insurance companies provide - not on patients themselves. Unless there's something in the next section you quote. Let's go take a look. Quote:
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By the way, I want to be clear that I'm not judging you for not being able to afford coverage for your son, if that is in fact the case - when my first son had severe asthma, I couldn't afford care either, and I was very glad for the government-provided care that he could get, despite all of the things that I could complain about in regards to it. Quote:
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03-24-2010, 08:16 PM | #207 (permalink) |
Easy Rider
Location: Moscow on the Ohio
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I agree with this, I don't like it, but it is necessary to make the numbers work in this bill. Republicans say they want to expand coverage by making healthcare cheaper. I was really hoping they had a way to do this and still allow for covering pre-conditions and 30+ million uninsured. The major things they offer are tort reform and state line competition but the estimated savings are not even close to accomplishing this. Once they actually published their counter bill they didn't even try to and would only cover 3 million uninsured and allow the insurance companies to continue denying coverage to those who have pre-conditions when they have lost their insurance because of job loss, etc...
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03-24-2010, 08:47 PM | #208 (permalink) | |
Crazy, indeed
Location: the ether
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03-25-2010, 07:53 AM | #209 (permalink) | ||
Living in a Warmer Insanity
Super Moderator
Location: Yucatan, Mexico
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---------- Post added at 09:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 AM ---------- Quote:
The health care bill will be the same if it's not a "pay as you go" thing. Which will be hard to do as many people have health care and are happy with it. A lot of those people have no interest in paying for someone else's treatment. I mean who wants to pay for the health care of some pot smoking, alcoholic person who eats at Burger King daily and weighs 450 lbs? I'm certainly not that thrilled about it. But I think for every person who fits that category there's likely eight to ten others who were hard working honest people who got cancer (or something like it) and exceeded their life time policy limit, lost their job and are now screwed. Those people I'm more then happy to pitch in for, how do you separate the two categories? I have no idea. I do know we can't keep doing what we did with the costs of the wars and keep going further and further into debt. I also don't think the current system is working for anyone other then the wealthy and the insurance companies. The whole situation reminds me of a local debate in Oregon several years ago. The state voted for mandatory sentences for violent crimes and sex crimes, great idea. They even voted to build (and pay for) more prisons to house such inmates, another great idea. The debate started when the state decided to use land it owned to build those prisons. Turns out property owners near those selected sites were, let's say, less then thrilled. So after years of debates, town meetings and petitions. Most of the new prisons were built on land the state didn't own and so far away from the main population centers that transportation costs of inmates tripled. "We want to lock up violent criminals."... "HELL YES!"... "We want you to help pay the cost"... "Mmmm, okay. I guess if that's that it takes." "We want to build the new prisons near your community."... "FUCK YOU!" And in that debate, same as the health care debate, both sides came up with ridicules claims to support their position. Just like the above "20 Ways ObamaCare Will Take Away Our Freedoms." Why be honest when your point can be made better by making shit up that many will swallow as truth and go to war with you as a result? And yes I firmly believe the left has done the same thing with this issue. Why? Because the truth is less appealing to both sides.
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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club Last edited by Tully Mars; 03-25-2010 at 08:04 AM.. |
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bill, healthcare, reform |
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