pan6467

First, let me start by saying I am pro choice always have been. I do believe the father should legally have some say though (that's just based on personal experience).

That said, the rumors, and they are just rumors as the ad has yet to be seen by the public, are that this ad will have a pro-life/anti-abortion message.

SO WHAT? CBS states it was tastefully done and the pro-choice people coul;d have made a similar ad if it were tastefully done. Fair enough, I think.

However, there are the militant pro-chopicers that are demanding CBS not air it. I find this pathetic, in that CBS gave them a chance and they found excuses not to produce a commercial on their own. I find it pathetic that agin, people would rather censor voices, go to court or try to boycott a company because of a disagreeing statement.

This is not how to win people over to your side of an issue. This only shows that those people would rather have government dictate what we can say and can't, that only their views are right and fuck anyone else and they do not have enough conviction in their own view to stand up and produce their own ad.

It is sad, disgusting and totally unfathomable that these people are so tunnel visioned in their views they can't allow the other side a chance to speak.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Derwood

One the one hand, Tebow et al have every right to create this ad and purchase air time from CBS.

On the other, I think CBS should have some discretion and not sell ANY air time to to ANY political or social campaign during the Super Bowl. It's a football game....air all the ads for Budweiser and Ford F150's you want. I think this type of "controversy" only detracts from the game.

__________________
"You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel

Rekna

Yeah I support their right to make the commercial and air it but I just don't want politics during the Superbowl commercials to become a norm.

If the pro-lifers are serious about ending or reducing abortion they should try and get free health care for pregnant women and create programs that make adoption free (or close to it). Right now it can cost up to $30,000 to adopt in the US. That is a pretty hefty fee.

Cimarron29414

I want bouncing titties selling me beer and domain hosting services, maybe a monkey riding a skateboard hawking Doritos. I just look at it as a buzzkill.

__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

Derwood

for once, we agree

__________________
"You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel

Cimarron29414

We agree on far more than you think, I'll bet. Rhetorically speaking, if we had our conversations around beers rather than computer screens, you would find us not that different. This environment is poisonous, which is why I spend less and less time here (Tilted Politics).

__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

Jetée

Some find Tim Tebow to be too "holier than thou" and somehow, too perfect in all of his accomplishments throughout his college career. They now have just another excuse to want to hate on the man, as if they really needed it. There are some really heated debates that Tebow will fail in the NFL because he's not prototypical, but much too versatile to be assessed correctly as a quarterback (what?).

But that's not the isue at hand here. It's really coincidental that the first two viewpoints in this thread are virtually the "pro and con" sides of the argument to this discussion.

• The Super Bowl can show all the truck, beer and erectile dysfunction commercials we guys like, but bringing in politics? What kind of joke is this?
  
• Super Bowl Sunday is one of the most premier (if not the absolute pinnacle) of advertising real estate there is, so if there are those willing to pay the premium, then we will comply and allow them the air time. Besides, how harmful can the message be? Would it kill our audience to be afforded the opportunity to be educated?

I say no one has a right to be upset about this very miniscule piece of news. It's a commercial. Sure, during the Super Bowl, but if that is where the biggest audience is, and you have the purchasing power to afford such a stage, then it makes sense to be able to maximize your message's reach. if it upsets you, I hear that many TV sets nowadays come with a remote control; is it beyond yourself to change the channel instead of bashing Tim Tebow and his religious (political) beliefs?

I'll say I respect Tim Tebow, and I do know he is a very religious and faithful sort of athlete. I was blown away when I heard last night the very reason he wante to do this commercial was to say 'Hey, I was supposed to be aborted. My mother was confused and distraught at the time, but when she struggled, she eventually turned to her faith and decided to keep me. Please, think of the future you hold in your hands.' (this is my paraphrasing of what the ad's message may sound like in Tim Tebow's voice)

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

roachboy

the way i figure it, if you are anti-choice and so oppose abortion the most effective thing you can do is not have one.
past that, i really cannot imagine caring that you or anyone else thinks about it.
and i can imagine even less caring what a college football player thinks about abortion.
if there's someone who wants to put up the money to buy the kid's advert superbowl air time, then fine: but the fact remains that he's a college football player.

are you going to change your views about something as personal as whether or not to bring a pregnancy to term based on what some college football player tells you in an advert broadcast during a bloated and usually uninteresting sporting ritual?


personally, i get way more fed up with the national anthem business, which seems an advertisement for reactionary politics that no-one even has to fucking pay for.
what is the point of playing the national anthem before sporting events anyway?

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

dippin

Do they have the right to do the ad? Sure. Does CBS have the right to air it? Sure.


But personally, I find it fucking hypocritical of CBS, after years of a "no advocacy on the Super Bowl" position, to do this. Just as a reminder, they've blocked ads from moveon.org and a liberal church supporting gay rights in the past.


Oh, and I've yet to see anyone petitioning the government to stop this ad from being aired, so this whole "censor voices" thing is nonsense. CBS has the right to show the ads they want, and "militant pro choicers" have the right to criticize CBS for it however they want. Freedom of speech does not protect one from criticism.

filtherton

This phenomenon of people getting upset at other people for getting upset never ceases to make me chuckle.

Of course pro-choice groups are going to complain about something like this-- it's in their mission statement to complain about things like this. Just like anti abortion groups would complain if a pro choice group aired a commercial espousing a pro choice message. It isn't censorship, it's actually just another example of competition in the marketplace of ideas (I can't believe I actually just wrote that phrase).

Cimarron29414

As a person who is personally pro-life, and politically pro-choice - I fail to understand why anyone "pro-choice" would be upset by this. This commercial is little more than, "Hey, I had a choice whether to abort or keep. I kept him and he throws a ball really far." The only response anyone who is politically pro-choice need give is, "Whew, good thing you had the freedom to make that choice, huh? Now back to the titties selling beer."

__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

Willravel

I'm WIllravel, and I approve this message.

There's nothing at all in the Bible about abortion, and abortion is legal in the US. Make all the commercials you want.

Baraka_Guru

A heavy-handed moral message broadcast during a fervently watched sporting event.

There's something tragically American about that.

I don't see a problem with airing the ad, and I think it's essential to the pro-choicers to criticize it. What is their mission otherwise?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Cimarron29414

Again, why criticize it? It proves the point that choice is the way to go in society. "You had a choice and you made the right one for you."

__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

dippin

Well, you are discussing strategy, not principle.

filtherton

I don't care the commercial is aired, though I think that its premise is ridiculous. Jeffrey Dahmer's mom chose life too.

Cimarron29414

Perhaps I am missing something, but isn't the principle of pro-choice...choice? What principle are you referring to? (Read my very first post so you get where I'm coming from, though.)

__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

roachboy

so i think the thread thus far has shown a remarkably consistent who cares response to this advert rumor.
so far in response to this advertisement for an advertisement that's being fobbed off as a rumor, i've seen one of those facebook group logo things floating about and nothing else.

so it seems to me that what we have here is yet another conservative-as-victim thread, yes?

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Baraka_Guru

So you would say the commercial is going to be pro-choice?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Wes Mantooth

Yeah I have to agree with everyone here, they paid for the add let them say what they want. If pro-choice groups are bothered that much by the add, raise some money, buy some space and put out a counter add.

I'm pro choice all the way but getting upset over something like this is just ridiculous.

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aceventura3

No. The conservatives behind this got a spokesperson fitting their theme, got the ad made, got the money to air the ad, got the network to approve it, and it is going to air. If that is being a victim...we should all be victims. Real victims are like the liberals supporting Obama's health care agenda, they have the President, super majority, etc, and complain about not getting Republican support.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

ASU2003

I don't want an ad regarding abortion during the Super Bowl unless it is funny. Can't we get away from the politics for a few hours and watch a game?

How many Super Bowl parties will this ruin once others know how their friends feel about this issue? How many women and kids will live in poverty and strife from having a baby they aren't able to take care of because they think conservative society will shove a lot of guilt at them.

On a side note, Who do you have to elect in this country to make it a progressive liberal state? I would much rather see a Victoria Secret ad with a wardrobe malfunction or a Nike ad with a female streaker at the game.

highthief

The thing is, although abortion is often discussed, it's one of those issues that really only about 20% of the population really, really care about - the 10% who are rabid pro-choicers who think terminating anytime before delivery is OK and the 10% who are rabid anti-abortion who "spilling their seed upon the earth" is akin to murder. For everyone else, the debate is something we may have an opinion on, but it tends not to be something we are really all that wound up about.

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

pan6467

I didn't say petitioning the government, I said petitioning and threatening to boycott CBS.

The radio station I listened to that had someone affiliated with the ad said that there is a group out there trying to get a court order AND the FCC to halt the ad from being aired.

That is what I'm upset over and what I am wanting to discuss.

It's as I keep stating, why do certain groups feel they should go to court/the FCC to stop someone else's freedoms?

I'm sure if it were a pro-choice commercial (and how exactly do you in an ad tastefully say "I killed my baby"?) the anti-abortion crowd would be trying the courts and boycotts also.

Our society is built up around freedom of speech. You can turn the channel, mute the commercial, go to the bathroom... whatever, you do not have to watch it. You do not have to agree with what is said... but why must certain people try to get government (and a court/FCC order to desist/ an injunction to stop the ad, etc) is using the government to take away freedom of speech.

To me this issue is not about pro life/choice it is about freedom of speech and the right to produce an ad that allows your views to be heard. Again, for the life of me, I do not understand why people go to the courts or any governmental agency to silence someone else's views.

Shouldn't we be worried about a lot more important things like A FUCKING WAR.... Unemployment, the economy... etc than to try to stop an ad?

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Baraka_Guru

Yeah, (fucking) war, unemployment, the economy, and the country's gearing up for a fucking game and the mass commercialization that goes along with it.

It's all bread & circuses, my friend.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Cimarron29414

Well, I've not seen the script so I can't say definitively. If she says, "I had a choice and I made this one, but I think our politicians should change the current law so that you can't have the choice that I did." - well, that would definitely be a pro-life political message. If she says, "I had a choice and I made this one, always remember you have a choice and you can choose life." Well, I would view that as a pro-choice commercial. It encourages people to "choose life", but it still emphasizes that there is a choice. In my opinion, any offense to that message starts blurring one's position between "pro-choice" and "pro-abortion".

I really don't have anything else to offer. I still think it's going to be a buzzkill.

__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

Derwood

pan

for someone who claims to be pro-choice, you have an awfully strange interpretation of what pro-choice means. "I killed my baby"? Really?

__________________
"You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel

Cimarron29414

Objectively speaking, isn't that what you've done?

__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

Derwood

it's a false dichotomy. One can be anti-abortion but pro-choice. One doesn't define one's self as pro-choice by having an abortion. In fact, the vast, vast majority of pro-choice supporters haven't had an abortion (and would never have one)

__________________
"You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel

roachboy

"objectively speaking?"

what the hell are you talking about?

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Baraka_Guru

I think "objectively speaking" means "scientifically speaking"...or, at a stretch, "philosophically speaking"...but it still doesn't make any sense.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

pan6467

So exactly what would the pro-choicers say. I tend to like what Cimmaron said:

That would actually in my mind be a pro-choice commercial. BUT if that is what is being aired and those militant groups are fighting it... then what exactly would their commercial say?

The very fact that they would rather find courts to stop the ad or the FCC or boycott CBS even though CBS gave them the chance to air an ad that was tastefully done, shows there is a problem.

So, let's see they can't present an ad that shows a lady who is maybe in her 30's and says.... "I did something when I was 16, I was not prepared for it and I had a choice, my baby would have been born a drug addict and in serious pain from my lifestyle at the time. My child would never have had a chance to live the life that I believe everyone should be able to. I stand by my choice and am grateful that I had one."

Or something similar.... But it still comes down to "I killed my baby." Which I may be pro-choice but I still acknowledge that it abortion is killing a living thing... is an embryo human yet with a soul??? don't know, but I would rather see clinics that are legal and clean than hear how ladies have to go to chop shops in some alley.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

ring

I had an inkling this entire thread premise was a back-door, sideways attempt,
at having another abortion debate.

Now I am certain.

roachboy

first off, this entire thread is a commercial for a commercial.

i cannot imagine anyone whose opinions interest me less than a college quarterback. unless we're talking about football. and who knows maybe we'll be treated to a riot of football metaphors:

In the great game of life dontcha think it's better to accept the consequences of passing the ball from one person to another I mean abortion is like someone reaching in and stealing the football in the middle of a game this here is my mom and she didn't let anyone take the ball in the middle of my reproductive football game and so here I stand on the 50 yardline of life somewhere between being a college football quarterback and being a has-been college football quarterback and in order to establish my merchandising bona-fides for corporate entitites the boards of which swing to the reactionary here I am here, bare-naked, conservative shill-of-the-future even if my professional career goes from non-existent to disappointment with no intervening period, here I am on the 50 yard-line of my own personal football game of life thinking Praise Jesus that my mom---that's her over there you know the only other person standing here on this giant metaphor, the one with the bouffant that's her---aren't you glad that she didn't let some bad man steal the football early on in the game, that she decided to man or wo-man up and even if the football that produced me was not the result of a called play and even if it was an interception, well no matter what it's better that she ran the football back than it woulda been had she let some bad man just take the football and end the game why had that happened I wouldn't be standing here now on the 50 yard line of my own personal football game and that's why I am coming to you today to say that life and football are the same so that when I a college football player tell you don't let a bad man steal the football well, you know that I know what I'm talking about because....well...I'm a college fooball player and this......well, this is a football field and that......well, that is my mom.
I'm Tim Tebow and abortion is bad.
Ask my mom.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

pan6467

Honest to God, it isn't.

I'm just pissed that some people had the oppurtunity to produce their own ad and instead decided to try to have a court/the FCC or blackmail CBS into not allowing someone their right to expression and to voice their opinion.

IF this were about any other subject and there was a group that was doing that, I'd feel exactly the same and would have posted.

The OP was never intended in ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM to be about abortion. It may morph into that but hopefully people can try to remain on subject.

IF it's easier to.... pretend it's about one group saying they had a choice and preferred drinking from plastic bottles, while the aluminum can people are looking to silence that ad in any way they can, even though they had an opportunity to make an ad stating their viewpoint.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

ring

Well, now that corporations are considered a person,
I might reconsider my stance on capital punishment.

I'm not altogether certain, that this is a threadjack.

pan6467

Thank you for making me laugh today.

I chose Pub DIscussion, because I wanted to keep it somewhat light, where people can just discuss how they feel and what they think and you have done that.

We're all just friends sittin at a table discussing this over a drink... whatever your poison is... mine is Diet Dr Pepper or Pepsi Max.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

ASU2003

1. Not all groups have $3 million dollars to throw away on a counter-ad that the vast majority won't be interested in during a sporting event that he isn't in. Had Florida been playing in the BCS and he was playing, I would say that is OK. But, this ad will do nothing constructive to the country right now and just raise another divisive issue that isn't very important to most people's lives.

2. I can't "turn the channel, mute the commercial, go to the bathroom... whatever". I will be watching it with conservatives, and I don't want to rock that boat. I don't want to see political commercials during the Super Bowl from any group.

3. There are many reasons why I think abortion would be the smart thing to do in lots of situations, the current system is something the vast majority can live with.

4. You have the freedom of speech, but a woman doesn't have the freedom to choose what to do with her body?

ring

If I had the money for a super-bowl commercial/rant/stance/

It would be a difficult choice.

Which is more evil? High fructose corn syrup...or trans fats?

Cimarron29414

You know, it's this kind of shit that has me fleeing these discussions. "What the hell..." is that really necessary? I have been as polite as possible in this, my first discussion here in quite a while. As usual, I get attacked by the usual suspects.

Objectively:

Definition: impartially
Synonyms: considerately, detachedly, disinterestedly, dispassionately, equitably, evenhandedly, indifferently, justly, neutrally, on the up and up, open-mindedly, soberly, squarely, with an open mind, with impartiality, with objectivity, without favor, without prejudice

By having an abortion you are killing your baby. It's simply a matter of fact. Whether that is a "murder" or a "necessary termination of life" is not for me to decide, since it is unique to each instance. Hence, I am speaking objectively.

I'm done with this thread, guys. There's nothing else to add.

__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."