Eagle Scout suspended for 2 in. pocketknife - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

FuglyStick · 10-15-2009, 08:18 PM

The Associated Press: NY Eagle Scout suspended for keeping knife in car

Quote:

NY Eagle Scout suspended for keeping knife in car
(AP) – 1 day ago
TROY, N.Y. — An Eagle Scout who kept a 2-inch pocketknife in his car has been suspended from his upstate New York high school for bringing the weapon onto school grounds. Now he is concerned about his chances of getting accepted to West Point.
Matthew Whalen was suspended for 20 days for violating the Lansingburgh Central School District's zero-tolerance policy. The 17-year-old senior says he gave the knife to an administrator last month after another student told officials about it.
Whalen says the knife was a gift from his grandfather, the police chief in a nearby village. He says he kept survival items in his car in case of an emergency.
Whalen says he's been wanting to go to West Point for years but now worries about his chances.
District officials say they don't comment on student disciplinary matters.

I have carried a pocket knife most of the time since I was in high school, but I never carried one to school (high school, anyway; I carried one when I was in college). I almost feel naked without one; nearly every day I have an occasion to use it, and some days it gets a lot of use. I know that many things have changed in the twenty years since I graduated high school, but a twenty day suspension? Are we going too far in our efforts to protect children, or are we better off erring on the side of caution? And even if this suspension is an over-reaction, does it absolve Whalen of his responsibility in regards to breaking school policy?

KirStang · 10-15-2009, 08:26 PM

I think they've gone too far. The crow bar in the trunk of my car is probably more dangerous than a 2" pocket-knife. Over-zealous are we?

Plan9 · 10-15-2009, 08:28 PM

Mods,

This belongs in politics. The Weaponry Forum is where we talk of weapons, not pathetic bullshit.

remy1492 · 10-15-2009, 08:46 PM

Sad day in America when "no tolerance" means no brains. Did you see how many badges that dude had? I bet he knows more first aid and CPR than any of the faculty. He will go somewhere in life where he is not surrounded by useful idiots.

Fire · 10-15-2009, 08:48 PM

any time adherence to a policy eliminates common sense, it only causes an erosion of respect for the people in charge- all this has taught the student, and the community, is that their school officials are morons unworthy of any respect.......

Daniel_ · 10-15-2009, 10:50 PM

I carried 2 pocket knives all through secondary school - I had a swiss army six bladed knife that I used regularly to open my walkman and fix it, and a 3" opinel clasp knife that I used to cut food. Both were kept very sharp (otherwise why have them) and used safely.

Teachers knew, and used to borrow them!

I fear for modern children.

GreyWolf · 10-16-2009, 03:24 AM

In my day, one of the favourite recess pastimes was sitting on the wooden benches in the bleachers playing games with pocketknives. And "injuries", in the form of nicks and tiny cuts were the norm.

Hate to rant (i.e. actually love to), but this is all part of the complete emasculation of society over the last 60 years. We live in a society that is by almost all objective measures safer than at any point in history, and we live in constant fear. We no longer have the option of taking care of our own problems, we have to let the government grind excruciatingly slowly to an inconclusive finale.

Heaven help us if we step over any of the hundreds of lines now drawn in the sand... a 6-yo boy hugs a female classmate - SEX OFFENDER!! A kid brings a multi-tool to show & tell - SUSPENSION!! A highschool kid gives a friend with a headache a Tylenol - DRUG DEALER!!

The first casualty to political correctness was common sense.

The_Jazz · 10-16-2009, 04:57 AM

Moved to Politics

samcol · 10-16-2009, 05:19 AM

A sad result of the nanny state we live in

Responsibility and freedom are no longer virtues we are allowed to live by.

Baraka_Guru · 10-16-2009, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcol

A sad result of the nanny state we live in

Responsibility and freedom are no longer virtues we are allowed to live by.

Easy now. The sky isn't falling.

This is a trifling matter compared to what you're referring to. I think bringing sharp objects other than pens and pencils to school is generally a bad idea. Unfortunately, it's easier to uphold a zero-tolerance policy than it is to have a number of trivial rules.

Derwood · 10-16-2009, 06:40 AM

zero tolerance policies never work, but they're an inevitable result of litigation-happy parents and ineffectual school administrators

The_Jazz · 10-16-2009, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derwood

zero tolerance policies never work, but they're an inevitable result of litigation-happy parents and ineffectual school administrators

Litigation-happy? Debatable. Over-protective? Definitely.

Ineffectual? Unarguable.

Zero tolerance policies are moronic. They only succeed in making those imposing the policies look stupid.

Derwood · 10-16-2009, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

Litigation-happy? Debatable. Over-protective? Definitely.

Ineffectual? Unarguable.

Zero tolerance policies are moronic. They only succeed in making those imposing the policies look stupid.

It's equal parts laziness and ass-covering; every case like this should be judged on its own merits, but that would require work on the school's part. On the other hand, every parent thinks their kid is the exception to the rules, so schools have said "fuck it, everything is being treated the same."

All that said, if there are explicit rules prohibiting bringing knives to school, the kid doesn't have much of a defense

The_Jazz · 10-16-2009, 07:01 AM

Well, he didn't really bring it to SCHOOL. It was in his locked car in the parking lot. It's not like he was walking the halls with a machette.

rahl · 10-16-2009, 07:09 AM

When I was in Highschool in the late 90's I used to keep a shotgun in my car. I would go hunting almost daily after school in the fall. I told the principle about it to make sure it was cool, and he said it was but not to broadcast it to the other students. Alot has changed in the 10 years since I've been out of HS, it's pretty sad.

samcol · 10-16-2009, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rahl

When I was in Highschool in the late 90's I used to keep a shotgun in my car. I would go hunting almost daily after school in the fall. I told the principle about it to make sure it was cool, and he said it was but not to broadcast it to the other students. Alot has changed in the 10 years since I've been out of HS, it's pretty sad.

If you had a political bumper sticker on your car, they'd probably call it terrorism today.

rahl · 10-16-2009, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcol

If you had a political bumper sticker on your car, they'd probably call it terrorism today.

Just to be fair, I didn't go to a puclic school. It was a private catholic school(I'm no longer religious by the way) Not sure if that would make any difference in policy.

YaWhateva · 10-16-2009, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rahl

Just to be fair, I didn't go to a puclic school. It was a private catholic school(I'm no longer religious by the way) Not sure if that would make any difference in policy.

Then if you had a conservative political bumper sticker you'd be a patriot

sorry I had to!

I think this is a ridiculous example of zero tolerance. I cant believe schools have become this ridiculous in the past 7 years.

Cimarron29414 · 10-16-2009, 10:11 AM

Obviously, zero-tolerance policies allow administrators to be intellectually lazy in performing their duties and they prefer it that way.

As an aside and in spite of the zero-tolerance policy in the district which prevents these sorts of acts: A Conway S.C. student was shot by a police officer today when he brought a knife to school and stabbed said police officer.

raptor9k · 10-17-2009, 01:46 PM

deleted

ottopilot · 10-18-2009, 04:52 AM

Does anyone know how it was discovered that he kept the pocket knife in his car? Did someone have a grudge? Did the owner carelessly brandish it in the parking lot (i.e. playing around)? Is this a symptom of a darker aspect of politically correct policies by encouraging an informant culture? Was this simply a fellow student obeying their no tolerance programming? What characteristics of vigilance are encouraged in the "observe and report" education process? There's always the do-gooders and tattler's in society, but kids often want to please authority figures. Are students taught to be over-zealous as the "eyes" of the community? The no-tolerence policies may have good intentions behind them, but has more harm been done in the long run? Is this scenario playing out in other PC driven initiatives. I don't like the term, but "nanny-state" does seem appropriate in this case.

Tully Mars · 10-18-2009, 06:27 AM

As many on here know I used to work parole and probation. For years my entire caseload was 25 and under. I got a call from a school admin. one day telling me I had to rush over to the local HS because they found "contraband" on one of my probationers. I drive over to the school, blowing off a court hearing, to find the contraband was some midol. After an hour and half meeting it was decided she should be suspended for three weeks because midol is not only contraband but also, gasp!, a drug. I argued and argued to no avail "She's on her period, she's having cramps, this medication is OTC and has no value other then it's intended use... YOU PEOPLE ARE ACTING CRAZY!"

Never underestimate the mind numbing stupidity of a room full of administrators. Some of these "zero tolerance" policies should really be relabeled "zero intelligence."

Plan9 · 10-18-2009, 09:25 AM

Don't you people get it? Haven't you been exposed to enough Media Truth to put 2 and 2 together here?

Dangerous items such as guns, knives, pencils and Midol have minds of their own and will kill cute Baby Gap-clad infants if not properly segregated from Proper White Society.

10-15-2009, 08:28 PM	#3 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Mods, This belongs in politics. The Weaponry Forum is where we talk of weapons, not pathetic bullshit. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

10-15-2009, 08:48 PM	#5 (permalink)
Fire Warrior Smith Location: missouri	any time adherence to a policy eliminates common sense, it only causes an erosion of respect for the people in charge- all this has taught the student, and the community, is that their school officials are morons unworthy of any respect....... __________________ Thought the harder, Heart the bolder, Mood the more as our might lessens

10-15-2009, 10:50 PM	#6 (permalink)
Daniel_ Evil Priest: The Devil Made Me Do It! Location: Southern England	I carried 2 pocket knives all through secondary school - I had a swiss army six bladed knife that I used regularly to open my walkman and fix it, and a 3" opinel clasp knife that I used to cut food. Both were kept very sharp (otherwise why have them) and used safely. Teachers knew, and used to borrow them! I fear for modern children. __________________ ╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗ Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air, And deep beneath the rolling waves, In labyrinths of Coral Caves, The Echo of a distant time Comes willowing across the sand; And everthing is Green and Submarine ╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

10-16-2009, 03:24 AM	#7 (permalink)
GreyWolf Sober Location: Eastern Canada	In my day, one of the favourite recess pastimes was sitting on the wooden benches in the bleachers playing games with pocketknives. And "injuries", in the form of nicks and tiny cuts were the norm. Hate to rant (i.e. actually love to), but this is all part of the complete emasculation of society over the last 60 years. We live in a society that is by almost all objective measures safer than at any point in history, and we live in constant fear. We no longer have the option of taking care of our own problems, we have to let the government grind excruciatingly slowly to an inconclusive finale. Heaven help us if we step over any of the hundreds of lines now drawn in the sand... a 6-yo boy hugs a female classmate - SEX OFFENDER!! A kid brings a multi-tool to show & tell - SUSPENSION!! A highschool kid gives a friend with a headache a Tylenol - DRUG DEALER!! The first casualty to political correctness was common sense. __________________ *The secret to great marksmanship is deciding what the target was AFTER you've shot.*

10-16-2009, 04:57 AM	#8 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	Moved to Politics __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

10-15-2009, 08:26 PM	#2 (permalink)
KirStang Future Bureaucrat	I think they've gone too far. The crow bar in the trunk of my car is probably more dangerous than a 2" pocket-knife. Over-zealous are we?

10-15-2009, 08:46 PM	#4 (permalink)
remy1492 Crazy Location: CA TX LU	Sad day in America when "no tolerance" means no brains. Did you see how many badges that dude had? I bet he knows more first aid and CPR than any of the faculty. He will go somewhere in life where he is not surrounded by useful idiots.

10-16-2009, 05:19 AM	#9 (permalink)
samcol Junkie Location: Indiana	A sad result of the nanny state we live in Responsibility and freedom are no longer virtues we are allowed to live by. __________________ It's time for the president to hand over his nobel peace prize.

10-16-2009, 06:40 AM	#11 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	zero tolerance policies never work, but they're an inevitable result of litigation-happy parents and ineffectual school administrators

10-16-2009, 07:01 AM	#14 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	Well, he didn't really bring it to SCHOOL. It was in his locked car in the parking lot. It's not like he was walking the halls with a machette. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

10-16-2009, 07:09 AM	#15 (permalink)
rahl Junkie Location: Ohio	When I was in Highschool in the late 90's I used to keep a shotgun in my car. I would go hunting almost daily after school in the fall. I told the principle about it to make sure it was cool, and he said it was but not to broadcast it to the other students. Alot has changed in the 10 years since I've been out of HS, it's pretty sad. __________________ "Your life is Yours alone...Rise up and live it"

10-16-2009, 10:11 AM	#19 (permalink)
Cimarron29414 Still Free Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!	Obviously, zero-tolerance policies allow administrators to be intellectually lazy in performing their duties and they prefer it that way. As an aside and in spite of the zero-tolerance policy in the district which prevents these sorts of acts: A Conway S.C. student was shot by a police officer today when he brought a knife to school and stabbed said police officer. __________________ Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

10-17-2009, 01:46 PM	#20 (permalink)
raptor9k Crazy Location: Earth	deleted Last edited by raptor9k; 09-07-2021 at 02:21 PM..

10-18-2009, 04:52 AM	#21 (permalink)
ottopilot let me be clear Location: Waddy Peytona	Does anyone know how it was discovered that he kept the pocket knife in his car? Did someone have a grudge? Did the owner carelessly brandish it in the parking lot (i.e. playing around)? Is this a symptom of a darker aspect of politically correct policies by encouraging an informant culture? Was this simply a fellow student obeying their no tolerance programming? What characteristics of vigilance are encouraged in the "observe and report" education process? There's always the do-gooders and tattler's in society, but kids often want to please authority figures. Are students taught to be over-zealous as the "eyes" of the community? The no-tolerence policies may have good intentions behind them, but has more harm been done in the long run? Is this scenario playing out in other PC driven initiatives. I don't like the term, but "nanny-state" does seem appropriate in this case. __________________ "It rubs the lotion on Buffy, Jodi and Mr. French's skin" - Uncle Bill from Buffalo

10-18-2009, 06:27 AM	#22 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	As many on here know I used to work parole and probation. For years my entire caseload was 25 and under. I got a call from a school admin. one day telling me I had to rush over to the local HS because they found "contraband" on one of my probationers. I drive over to the school, blowing off a court hearing, to find the contraband was some midol. After an hour and half meeting it was decided she should be suspended for three weeks because midol is not only contraband but also, gasp!, a drug. I argued and argued to no avail "She's on her period, she's having cramps, this medication is OTC and has no value other then it's intended use... YOU PEOPLE ARE ACTING CRAZY!" Never underestimate the mind numbing stupidity of a room full of administrators. Some of these "zero tolerance" policies should really be relabeled "zero intelligence." __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

10-18-2009, 09:25 AM	#23 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Don't you people get it? Haven't you been exposed to enough Media Truth to put 2 and 2 together here? Dangerous items such as guns, knives, pencils and Midol have minds of their own and will kill cute Baby Gap-clad infants if not properly segregated from Proper White Society. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."