09-08-2009, 08:40 AM | #121 (permalink) |
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There's a bit of revisionist history in this thread that makes the reaction by some parents seem all the more looney. This occurred over about a 10 day period. Here is a bit more accurate summation of what got us here:
1) The Dept. of Education announced that Obama would do a speech to all school children. It did not include the subject matter of the speech. 2) A "homework assignment" was released to the districts which was written in cooperation with the White House which included the question (out of context) "What can I do to help President Obama?" and "What is President Obama asking of me?" No copy of the speech was provided, only the homework assignment. 3) An uproar occurs from parents to their local districts demanding to know what this is all about. 4) In response, the White House pulls the homework assignment. 5) The White House releases the text of the speech. So, saying that everyone is upset by the fact that he is speaking to school children isn't exactly fair. It's pretty unfair to assess parents' reactions to step 2 as if they were reacting to step 5 (which they were not.) If anything, this is another shining example of the White House not being able to send a clear and concise message to the people on the first pass, which is most of their trouble in their lack of effectiveness. Had the White House released a statement such as "On Sept. 9, President Obama will make a speech to children on the importance of going to school, studying hard, and staying in school. Here is the speech and the homework assignment." - this would not have happened. Yes, there is distrust of this administration. The administration doesn't help that distrust by sending cryptic homework assignments through the "ministry of education" (just poking the bear, roachboy).
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09-08-2009, 09:04 AM | #123 (permalink) | ||
Crazy, indeed
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09-08-2009, 09:25 AM | #124 (permalink) |
Still Free
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That announcement was not distributed with the homework assignment. The point is that the message was not presented in a way to alay this type of reaction and that rests entirely with the White House.
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09-08-2009, 09:32 AM | #125 (permalink) |
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so wait. are you arguing that some paranoid flight from the image of the president is normal and that the white house should have taken it into account when fashioning this event?
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09-08-2009, 09:42 AM | #126 (permalink) |
has all her shots.
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EXACTLY. sheesh.
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09-08-2009, 09:42 AM | #127 (permalink) |
Please touch this.
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I'll put my opinion this way: If GWB had done the same thing, I would have supported it. As long as he left god out of it and stuck to the importance of staying in school and such, I would have been fine. The fact that it is Obama saying these things is no different. This is the president of the country addressing the kids about a topic that we can all agree on: lurn gud
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09-08-2009, 09:46 AM | #128 (permalink) | |
Still Free
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If the WH press dept. is too obtuse to recognize that any lapse in message is going to be feasted upon, then they are just that - obtuse. They have no one to blame but themselves.
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09-08-2009, 09:51 AM | #129 (permalink) | |
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Also, why did it take them so long to release the transcript to clam everyone down? It was quite apparent that many people were not pleased about him speaking and could of been taken care of if they released the text earlier.
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09-08-2009, 09:52 AM | #130 (permalink) |
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so you really are arguing that.
jesus. beneath that, however, you are pointing to the problem---conservative memes getting way way way too much press attention without adequate indicators that they are fucked up. they get press and they're presented as if they represented a legitimate political position. THAT'S the problem. if that wasn't happening, none of this idiocy would get traction amongst the paranoid set.
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09-08-2009, 10:09 AM | #131 (permalink) |
Please touch this.
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Then again, it is the dismissal of absurdities that can come back to haunt a campaign. Those absurdities can gain traction in today's world where every nutjob can have a voice on FOX News.
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09-08-2009, 10:14 AM | #132 (permalink) | ||
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Now, in the absence of a subject matter (due to a failure on the WH's part), the parents opted out. In the presence of subject matter, parents would not opted out. Since the initial opt-out by some parents - the WH, media, and you guys are rewriting the event to make it look like those parents acted entirely irrational to a speech on staying in school which, in truth, was not what they were reacting to. Is it so hard to admit, "Yep, the WH should have been more on point" and move on? FTR, I do not have my children pulled out of the Obama speech and never did. ---------- Post added at 02:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 PM ---------- Quote:
Just sayin'
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09-08-2009, 10:18 AM | #133 (permalink) | |
WHEEEE! Whee! Whee! WHEEEE!
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09-08-2009, 10:25 AM | #134 (permalink) | |||
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09-08-2009, 10:28 AM | #136 (permalink) | |
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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09-08-2009, 10:34 AM | #137 (permalink) | ||
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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If the Obama White House responded to every bullshit controversy cooked up by the anti-progressives, they wouldn't be able to deal with the occupations, the economy, or anything else. It's not the West Wing's job to buy into the false perception that the anti-progressives deserve any attention. |
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09-08-2009, 10:35 AM | #138 (permalink) | |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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I imagine myself, 4 years ago, say right after GWB's re-election when I was feeling pretty ornery and still 'licking my wounds,' so to speak, from the disappointment of the election. I imagine that I received word that a speech would be aired by the president on the first day of school. Do I suppose that speech is about the rightness of the war? About the benefits of prayer in schools? About the moral implications of pre-marital sex? No, that would be insane. Of course I would assume that he is talking about SCHOOL. What the hell else would he be talking about? Now the issue of the 'homework.' If in coordination with this mystery speech which I would assume was about...SCHOOL...there was a request for the children to write an essay saying what they can do to 'help the president' I would, naturally, since I am assuming that the president is talking about SCHOOL, believe that they are to write something about improving their grades or tutoring other kids or helping their teachers by being better behaved, whatever. Of course, in my head, I would be thinking what I would like to do to help the president, but you know, that's just me. I don't buy the argument that the way the information was released is the reason for the insanity. The only way to buy it, is to assume that what we are dealing with is a totally delusional epidemic of mass paranoia. It can't be explained by: they released the information in the wrong order. The entire premise of the reaction was irrational.
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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
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09-08-2009, 10:49 AM | #139 (permalink) | |
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Likewise the school speech's proposed content was very vague at first, which created a window of opportunity for speculation in the school speech and likewise with the healthcare fiasco.
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09-08-2009, 10:51 AM | #140 (permalink) | |
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Still waiting for a direct answer to my question from two days ago.
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09-08-2009, 10:52 AM | #141 (permalink) | |
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09-08-2009, 10:56 AM | #142 (permalink) |
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the only real choice that conservatives (in general) have here, now that this is happening and the nuttiness of it is becoming evident (as if it wasn't in the context of the town hall things or in the context of the census business) is to try to create the impression that this is a rational response. think about the ground they're walking if they don't do it. it's a bit of a wag the dog thing.
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09-08-2009, 11:00 AM | #143 (permalink) | |
let me be clear
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It seems stupidity freely rides the political pendulum. Is history simply repeating itself, or do they know we'll fall for it every time? A little histoical perspetive if you please...
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09-08-2009, 11:00 AM | #144 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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Having never worked in White House communications, neither you nor I can speculate as to when the final draft of the speech was finally finished. Unless you have some evidence to the contrary, there's no reason at all to suspect that a finished copy of the speech was purposefully kept from the public. Suggesting anything otherwise is entirely dishonest. |
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09-08-2009, 11:03 AM | #145 (permalink) | |
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I stand by all my other analysis.
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Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly." |
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09-08-2009, 11:11 AM | #146 (permalink) | |||
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Location: Ventura County
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---------- Post added at 07:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:05 PM ---------- Quote:
---------- Post added at 07:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:07 PM ---------- Quote:
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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09-08-2009, 11:16 AM | #147 (permalink) |
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well, ace, if you were the only person on the right, it would hardly matter to me how you responded. in fact, the more i think about it, the harder a time i am having thinking of anything that would interest, much less concern me less.
but you are again trying to do the same thing as you've been working the past few days: trying to erase the simple fact of a conservative media apparatus, to erase the fact of conservative opinion management and to erase the fact that this stuff has effects. i think your position entirely absurd. but hey, feel free to repeat it. maybe in about 30 years, people will forget that the world is otherwise and just start going along with you.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
09-08-2009, 11:23 AM | #148 (permalink) |
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Ace,
The "lack of trust" gets to a point where it's hard to believe we live in a same country. Also, let's talk about trust.. you give it to Palin, who starts this death panel BS. Then, (hopefully), you see it's not true, how can you keep trusting someone who makes allegations like this? Do you really think Obama's gonna march us right into Third Reich mode? Do you really think he's gonna off your grandma? There comes a point where maybe a human being gains the ability to think critically, and not believe outrageous, unfounded, crazy shit....no???
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09-08-2009, 11:26 AM | #149 (permalink) |
Junkie
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Perhaps, I read too fast and I may be prone to miss things from time to time - so do me a favor and restate your question and I will respond.[COLOR="DarkSlateGray"]
Do you believe that a message directed to school children about the importance of staying in school, working hard, and taking personal responsibility is a bad message? If you do not, then how can you be even the slightest bit upset that the president of the united states is giving said message to the nations children?
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"Your life is Yours alone...Rise up and live it" |
09-08-2009, 11:30 AM | #150 (permalink) | |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
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09-08-2009, 11:42 AM | #151 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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09-08-2009, 11:48 AM | #152 (permalink) |
Still Free
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Never said that, won't agree, won't fall into your trap. I know this disagreement won't affect my ability to admire you in other threads. Have a nice day.
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09-08-2009, 12:11 PM | #153 (permalink) | ||||||
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I do not agree with Palin 100% of the time, when we disagree I state that. Quote:
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{added} That stuff with my mother-in-law occurred on a Friday afternoon, my wife and her sister had to raise holy hell to get the issue resolved before everyone shut down for the weekend. If they had not gotten involved my mother-in-law would have gone about 2 1/2 days without the medication. ---------- Post added at 08:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 PM ---------- Quote:
No. It is a good message. Quote:
Second, he gave the children an assignment - write a letter explaining how you can help the President. I found that offensive and contributed to my thought that he was politicizing his message to children. Third, being from Illinois, Obama as a State Representative and a Senator representing Illinois and one of the worst school districts in the nation (Chicago) I was offended by the thought that he did nothing to improve Chicago schools and now wants to address America's schools Fourth, Obama is a public official who sends his children to private school. Fifth, Obama is sending his children to a private school in DC and is not affording the same opportunity to other children in DC through the opportunity scholarship. Sixth, Duncan his Sec of Education was a patronage appointment in my view. All of the above offended me. Call me absurd, ignore my thoughts, create your false arguments, blame conservative talking heads, whatever...but Obama has a credibility problem and it is his problem not mine.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." Last edited by aceventura3; 09-08-2009 at 11:59 AM.. |
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09-08-2009, 12:17 PM | #154 (permalink) | |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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What was the essential nature of the reaction to the 'homework assignment'? How do you suppose the people interpreted it? What did they think it was?
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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
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09-08-2009, 12:39 PM | #155 (permalink) |
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With all due respect, it's the same direction. You are far more interested in being right than trying to understand the not-so-extreme rationale of parents who may not want their 6-year-olds listening to a speech mildly peppered with climate change references. Perhaps they just want their kids to be kids for a little while longer. I'm certain that, upon reading the speech, many parents looked forward to a pep talk from POTUS. I know it's easier to think of them all as bitter, boom stick, sky ghost morans (incorrectly spelled for effect) - you know, because they disagree with you.
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Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly." Last edited by Cimarron29414; 09-08-2009 at 12:53 PM.. |
09-08-2009, 12:49 PM | #156 (permalink) | |
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Would it be this passage: You'll need the knowledge and problem-solving skills you learn in science and math to cure diseases like cancer and AIDS, and to develop new energy technologies and protect our environment.Perhaps the issue is not what is in the speech, but what some see in the speech that really isnt there.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 09-08-2009 at 12:52 PM.. |
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09-08-2009, 12:52 PM | #157 (permalink) | |
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09-08-2009, 12:54 PM | #158 (permalink) | |
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But even in the original lesson plan, there were no references to climate change, health care reform, or any policy issue. I stand by what I posted....some see things that arent there
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 09-08-2009 at 01:01 PM.. |
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09-08-2009, 12:55 PM | #159 (permalink) | |
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some of the fallout in the real world.
things to note: the florida republicans backed off the positions that folk here are still defending once the speech was available. alot of schools didn't show the speech because of this paranoid nonsense from the right. but of course, that's all a coincidence and there is no conservative media apparatus, there is no co-ordinated conservative political action. just a bunch of free-thinkin americans coming up with exactly the same line at exactly the same moment. amazing. Quote:
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09-08-2009, 01:03 PM | #160 (permalink) |
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This is an absurd statement and illustrates you have not really read what has been written here. Isn't there a difference between explaining what happened, pointing out the root casue of the reaction compared to defending the speech? To reasoned people there is a difference.
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