Obama's Suicide Program? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

gump · 07-21-2009, 06:37 AM

I looked and couldnt find thread discussing this. A friend sent me this yesterday. Its a segment from the Fred Thompson Show. Give it a listen

Fred Thompson: Interviews

If I'm understanding this correctly people who are elderly or on Social Security you will be obligated to listen to conselling on committing suicide. Is this right? I'm sorry but i just don't believe that this is the morals this country was built on. Being disabled myself I'm not looking forward to listen to someone tell me that I should kill myself to save this country money.

Cynthetiq · 07-21-2009, 07:57 AM

I'm trying to find a copy of the actual bill and cannot locate it since this radio addresses page 425. I'd like to read it myself.

Derwood · 07-21-2009, 08:03 AM

I can't imagine this is remotely true

gump · 07-21-2009, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

I'm trying to find a copy of the actual bill and cannot locate it since this radio addresses page 425. I'd like to read it myself.

We looked pretty hard to but never could find it. If you was to please post it.

dc_dux · 07-21-2009, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derwood

I can't imagine this is remotely true

I think one bill has provisions to encourage seniors to discuss "advance care planning" with family and care givers.. living wills, do not resuscitate options, or what treatments you would or would not like if facing "end of life" care, etc.

To call it a mandatory discussion of suicide planning is just another ignorant and intentional misrepresentation by the right.

Cynthetiq · 07-21-2009, 08:08 AM

the thing is that it should be posted on THOMAS (Library of Congress)

I just can't find who the author/sponsor of the bill is so that I get the right one.

Plan9 · 07-21-2009, 08:08 AM

Yeaah... I'm thinking the closest this could be the OP is mandatory counseling regarding NOT committing suicide, such as made popular in the US military for guys deploying / returning home. Suicide awareness is crucial to making suicide a more down to earth, and thus lame, choice for people who feel they have no choices. When they realize they have options other than suicide... things get better.

Cynthetiq · 07-21-2009, 08:11 AM

I'm an idiot, it's on the front page.

Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

dc_dux · 07-21-2009, 08:12 AM

''Advance Care Planning Consultation
''(hhh) (1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term 'advance care planning consultation' means a consultation between the individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such consultation shall include the following:

''(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to.

''(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including living wills and durable 19 powers of attorney, and their uses.

''(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.

''(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with advance care planning, including the national toll-free hotline, the advance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal service organizations (including those funded through the Older Americans Act of 1965).

''(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice, and benefits for such services and supports that are available under this title.

''(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life sustaining treatment or similar orders, which shall include--

''(I) the reasons why the development of such an order is beneficial to the individual and the individual's family and the reasons why such an order should be updated periodically as the health of the individual changes;

''(II) the information needed for an individual or legal surrogate to make informed decisions regarding the completion of such an order; and

''(III) the identification of resources that an individual may use to determine the requirements of the State in which such ...

Sounds reasonable to me....and hardly "counseling on committing suicide"

Hektore · 07-21-2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

I'm trying to find a copy of the actual bill and cannot locate it since this radio addresses page 425. I'd like to read it myself.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...111_cong_bills

Beware: This is the full text of the bill weighing in at a whopping one thousand seventeen pages in pdf form

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill pages 424-426

424
1 ‘‘form and manner’’; and
2 (3) in subsection (h)(4)(E), by striking ‘‘lesser’’
3 and inserting ‘‘greater’’.
4 SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION.
5 (a) MEDICARE.—
6 (1) IN GENERAL.—Section 1861 of the Social
7 Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395x) is amended—
8 (A) in subsection (s)(2)—
9 (i) by striking ‘‘and’’ at the end of
10 subparagraph (DD);
11 (ii) by adding ‘‘and’’ at the end of
12 subparagraph (EE); and
13 (iii) by adding at the end the fol-
14 lowing new subparagraph:
15 ‘‘(FF) advance care planning consultation (as
16 defined in subsection (hhh)(1));’’; and
17 (B) by adding at the end the following new
18 subsection:
19 ‘‘Advance Care Planning Consultation
20 ‘‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the
21 term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a con-
22 sultation between the individual and a practitioner de-
23 scribed in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning,
24 if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has

425
not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
1 consultation shall include the following:
2 ‘‘(A) An explanation by the practitioner of ad-
3 vance care planning, including key questions and
4 considerations, important steps, and suggested peo-
5 ple to talk to.
6 ‘‘(B) An explanation by the practitioner of ad-
7 vance directives, including living wills and durable
8 powers of attorney, and their uses.
9 ‘‘(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the
10 role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.
11 ‘‘(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list
12 of national and State-specific resources to assist con-
13 sumers and their families with advance care plan-
14 ning, including the national toll-free hotline, the ad-
15 vance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal
16 service organizations (including those funded
17 through the Older Americans Act of 1965).
18 ‘‘(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the
19 continuum of end-of-life services and supports avail-
20 able, including palliative care and hospice, and bene-
21 fits for such services and supports that are available
22 under this title.

426
‘‘(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of
1 orders regarding life sustaining treatment or similar
2 orders, which shall include—
3 ‘‘(I) the reasons why the development of
4 such an order is beneficial to the individual and
5 the individual’s family and the reasons why
6 such an order should be updated periodically as
7 the health of the individual changes;
8 ‘‘(II) the information needed for an indi-
9 vidual or legal surrogate to make informed deci-
10 sions regarding the completion of such an
11 order; and
12 ‘‘(III) the identification of resources that
13 an individual may use to determine the require-
14 ments of the State in which such individual re-
15 sides so that the treatment wishes of that indi-
16 vidual will be carried out if the individual is un-
17 able to communicate those wishes, including re-
18 quirements regarding the designation of a sur-
19 rogate decisionmaker (also known as a health
20 care proxy).
21 ‘‘(ii) The Secretary shall limit the requirement
22 for explanations under clause (i) to consultations
23 furnished in a State—

/beaten to it

dc_dux · 07-21-2009, 08:15 AM

Obama's suicide program....WTF?

Support or oppose the provision on its merits...not ignorant fear mongering.

Cynthetiq · 07-21-2009, 08:22 AM

thanks... I'm trying to do too many things at once at the moment.

But, taking the time to read this, I don't see what they are talking about.

Palliative care and hospice are not nice things to have to think about, especially if you are terminally ill for a major reason or just in such decline from the normal aging process. I don't see them as "suicide" centers, especially since I was visiting one, several times last year visiting a terminally ill friend. I found them to be quite humane, respectful, and gave my friend great dignity in the last weeks of his life.

Willravel · 07-21-2009, 08:27 AM

Not only does Obama have a suicide program for old people as a part of evil liberal social Darwinism, but he kills babies and he's a secret Kenyan Muslim with a fake birth certificate!

/bored with right-wing rhetoric

Baraka_Guru · 07-21-2009, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willravel

/bored with right-wing rhetoric

Actually, if things are the way you suspect they are, the proper word for all of that would be propaganda.

I find it odd that the first commentary/reporting on this is through some kind of radio show.

I say we sit and wait.

Willravel · 07-21-2009, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

Actually, if things are the way you suspect they are, the proper word for all of that would be propaganda.

You are correct, sir!

I think the problem I have with it isn't that it's propaganda, it's that the propaganda isn't even trying to be subtle, as if it's saying, "We can tell these morons ANYTHING, and they'll believe it. Good luck convincing them Obama's not actually a socialist! Muhahahah!!!"

Rekna · 07-21-2009, 10:10 AM

I didn't know Obama still writes all the bills that go through congress.

ratbastid · 07-21-2009, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

I find it odd that the first commentary/reporting on this is through some kind of radio show.

Funny, I don't find that odd in the SLIGHTEST.

This is why you should get your news from NEWS, and not from bullshit muck-stirring entertainers. I wasn't aware that Fred Thompson had fallen so low, but there it is.

samcol · 07-22-2009, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

''Advance Care Planning Consultation
''(hhh) (1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term 'advance care planning consultation' means a consultation between the individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such consultation shall include the following:

''(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to.

''(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including living wills and durable 19 powers of attorney, and their uses.

''(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.

''(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with advance care planning, including the national toll-free hotline, the advance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal service organizations (including those funded through the Older Americans Act of 1965).

''(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice, and benefits for such services and supports that are available under this title.

''(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life sustaining treatment or similar orders, which shall include--

''(I) the reasons why the development of such an order is beneficial to the individual and the individual's family and the reasons why such an order should be updated periodically as the health of the individual changes;

''(II) the information needed for an individual or legal surrogate to make informed decisions regarding the completion of such an order; and

''(III) the identification of resources that an individual may use to determine the requirements of the State in which such ...

Sounds reasonable to me....and hardly "counseling on committing suicide"

To be honest this kinda sounds like planned parenthood rhetoric. It's supposed to be about family planning, but the end result is hundreds of thousands of abortions a year.

Time will tell.

dc_dux · 07-22-2009, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcol

To be honest this kinda sounds like planned parenthood rhetoric. It's supposed to be about family planning, but the end result is hundreds of thousands of abortions a year.

Time will tell.

Wow...thats a first.

Comparing advance care planning for terminally ill to birth control "rhetoric"?

Sorry, I dont get it.

Cynthetiq · 07-22-2009, 10:09 AM

well based on what I'm reading today about Abortion complicating the Healthcare Bill

Anti-abortion congressmen take on health care legislation - CNN.com

I'm surprised that a thread hasn't come up titled,"Obama's Healthcare program wants to kill thousands of babies."

if not samcol's position, it is what I thought whant I read the CNN article.

dc_dux · 07-22-2009, 10:14 AM

For whats its worth, a recent study on the federally funded Title X Family Planning program:

Quote:

Based on 2006 statistics, the national family planning program known as Title X (10) prevented 1.94 million pregnancies in the United States, including 400,000 teen pregnancies. According to the study, the 1.94 million pregnancies that were prevented would have resulted in 860,000 unintended births and 810,000 abortions....

...The Title X family planning program began in 1970 as a bipartisan commonsense approach to ensuring that low-income Americans have access to contraceptive services and other preventive health care. By federal law, Title X funds cannot be used to fund abortion services. For almost 40 years, Title X has been the nation's only program dedicated solely to reducing unintended pregnancy by providing contraceptive and related reproductive health care services to low-income women.

New Study Shows Publicly Funded Family Planning Programs Prevent Abortions and Save Taxpayer Money - Planned Parenthood

IMO, federally funded family planning and preventive services targeted to low income makes more sense and is much effective than federally funded abstinence only education.

Jinn · 07-22-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

For whats its worth, a recent study on the federally funded Title X Family Planning program:

IMO, federally funded family planning and preventive services targeted to low income makes more sense and is much effective than federally funded abstinence only education.

You didn't need the IMO. It's empirical fact.

samcol · 07-22-2009, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

Wow...thats a first.

Comparing advance care planning for terminally ill to birth control "rhetoric"?

Sorry, I dont get it.

I'm referring to the impression you get when you read the planned parenthood website. On the surface it seems like it's about making happy families and important sexual choices which sounds find and dandy. However, whether you're pro-choice or pro-life everyone knows the underlying theme of planned parenthood is abortion.

Likewise this text you posted doesn't sound sinister I guess, but I can't help but think it's a way to try to get the worthless elderly who are of no use to society anymore off the health care docket. IE persuading the elderly to sign away that costly treatment that may or may not save their life, and instead giving them a the option to pull their own plug. They after all are the most taxing on health care costs.

kutulu · 07-22-2009, 03:36 PM

Anything to trash Obama.

Charlatan · 07-22-2009, 04:23 PM

I've never thought "underlying theme of planned parenthood is abortion." Ever.

From my experience with them it is a place that provided access to condoms and birth control pills. Period.

Willravel · 07-22-2009, 04:42 PM

Yeah, seriously the roll of Planned Parenthood is providing information and resources on reproductive health, 36% of their total services are contraception, 31% for STD testing, 17% on cancer testing and screening, 11% on "other services" and less than 3% involved in surgical and medical abortions. I'd hardly call less than 3% of all operations an underlying theme.

ratbastid · 07-22-2009, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcol

However, whether you're pro-choice or pro-life everyone knows the underlying theme of planned parenthood is abortion.

Utterly untrue. I accompanied lurkette to MANY PP visits for standard female-related checkups that had nothing whatsoever to do with abortion and only tangentially had anything to do with birth control. Most Planned Parenthood clinics don't do abortions on-site, but instead refer people to doctors and clinics who do.

I also don't actually really think that "everyone knows" this alleged abortion agenda Planned Parenthood has. Anti-abortion people (I refuse to dignify their repulsive actions with the term "pro-life"--how do they feel about terrorists? Kill them all? Hmm?) want people to think that, but most people know better, I think.

Telluride · 07-25-2009, 08:55 PM

I hate Obama as much as anyone you'll ever meet, but this sounds fishy to the extreme.

FelixP · 07-26-2009, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telluride

I hate Obama as much as anyone you'll ever meet, but this sounds fishy to the extreme.

QFT

ASU2003 · 07-28-2009, 05:12 PM

It's probably spin on what Obama said about how really elderly people need to think about whether they want to be kept alive with a not so good quality of life, or not use the expensive medical care and pass away. They should plan this out ahead of time and discuss it with their family.

Derwood · 07-29-2009, 06:59 AM

It's very telling that this is the tact that some GOP members are using to scare the populace. Instead of debating with facts (or, god forbid, coming up with their own plan for health care reform), they unleash their minions onto the 24 hour news programs to spread mistruths. Sickening

uncle phil · 07-31-2009, 11:04 AM

to the op:

snopes.com: Euthanasia Counseling

07-21-2009, 06:37 AM	#1 (permalink)
gump Addict Location: TN	Obama's Suicide Program? I looked and couldnt find thread discussing this. A friend sent me this yesterday. Its a segment from the Fred Thompson Show. Give it a listen Fred Thompson: Interviews If I'm understanding this correctly people who are elderly or on Social Security you will be obligated to listen to conselling on committing suicide. Is this right? I'm sorry but i just don't believe that this is the morals this country was built on. Being disabled myself I'm not looking forward to listen to someone tell me that I should kill myself to save this country money. Last edited by gump; 07-21-2009 at 07:24 AM..

07-21-2009, 07:57 AM	#2 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	I'm trying to find a copy of the actual bill and cannot locate it since this radio addresses page 425. I'd like to read it myself. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

07-21-2009, 08:08 AM	#6 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	the thing is that it should be posted on THOMAS (Library of Congress) I just can't find who the author/sponsor of the bill is so that I get the right one. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

07-21-2009, 08:08 AM	#7 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Yeaah... I'm thinking the closest this could be the OP is mandatory counseling regarding NOT committing suicide, such as made popular in the US military for guys deploying / returning home. Suicide awareness is crucial to making suicide a more down to earth, and thus lame, choice for people who feel they have no choices. When they realize they have options other than suicide... things get better. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

07-21-2009, 08:11 AM	#8 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	I'm an idiot, it's on the front page. Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress) __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

07-21-2009, 08:03 AM	#3 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	I can't imagine this is remotely true

07-21-2009, 08:12 AM	#9 (permalink)
dc_dux Location: Washington DC	''Advance Care Planning Consultation ''(hhh) (1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term 'advance care planning consultation' means a consultation between the individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such consultation shall include the following: ''(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to. ''(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including living wills and durable 19 powers of attorney, and their uses. ''(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities of a health care proxy. ''(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with advance care planning, including the national toll-free hotline, the advance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal service organizations (including those funded through the Older Americans Act of 1965). ''(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice, and benefits for such services and supports that are available under this title. ''(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life sustaining treatment or similar orders, which shall include-- ''(I) the reasons why the development of such an order is beneficial to the individual and the individual's family and the reasons why such an order should be updated periodically as the health of the individual changes; ''(II) the information needed for an individual or legal surrogate to make informed decisions regarding the completion of such an order; and ''(III) the identification of resources that an individual may use to determine the requirements of the State in which such ... Sounds reasonable to me....and hardly "counseling on committing suicide" __________________ "The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire

07-21-2009, 08:15 AM	#11 (permalink)
dc_dux Location: Washington DC	Obama's suicide program....WTF? Support or oppose the provision on its merits...not ignorant fear mongering. __________________ "The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire

07-21-2009, 08:22 AM	#12 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	thanks... I'm trying to do too many things at once at the moment. But, taking the time to read this, I don't see what they are talking about. Palliative care and hospice are not nice things to have to think about, especially if you are terminally ill for a major reason or just in such decline from the normal aging process. I don't see them as "suicide" centers, especially since I was visiting one, several times last year visiting a terminally ill friend. I found them to be quite humane, respectful, and gave my friend great dignity in the last weeks of his life. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

07-21-2009, 08:27 AM	#13 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Not only does Obama have a suicide program for old people as a part of evil liberal social Darwinism, but he kills babies and he's a secret Kenyan Muslim with a fake birth certificate! /bored with right-wing rhetoric

07-21-2009, 10:10 AM	#16 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	I didn't know Obama still writes all the bills that go through congress.

07-22-2009, 10:09 AM	#20 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	well based on what I'm reading today about Abortion complicating the Healthcare Bill Anti-abortion congressmen take on health care legislation - CNN.com I'm surprised that a thread hasn't come up titled,"Obama's Healthcare program wants to kill thousands of babies." if not samcol's position, it is what I thought whant I read the CNN article. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

07-22-2009, 03:36 PM	#24 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	Anything to trash Obama.

07-22-2009, 04:23 PM	#25 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I've never thought "underlying theme of planned parenthood is abortion." Ever. From my experience with them it is a place that provided access to condoms and birth control pills. Period. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

07-22-2009, 04:42 PM	#26 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Yeah, seriously the roll of Planned Parenthood is providing information and resources on reproductive health, 36% of their total services are contraception, 31% for STD testing, 17% on cancer testing and screening, 11% on "other services" and less than 3% involved in surgical and medical abortions. I'd hardly call less than 3% of all operations an underlying theme.

07-25-2009, 08:55 PM	#28 (permalink)
Telluride Browncoat Location: California	I hate Obama as much as anyone you'll ever meet, but this sounds fishy to the extreme. __________________ "I am certain that nothing has done so much to destroy the safeguards of individual freedom as the striving after this mirage of social justice." - Friedrich Hayek

07-28-2009, 05:12 PM	#30 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	It's probably spin on what Obama said about how really elderly people need to think about whether they want to be kept alive with a not so good quality of life, or not use the expensive medical care and pass away. They should plan this out ahead of time and discuss it with their family.

07-29-2009, 06:59 AM	#31 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	It's very telling that this is the tact that some GOP members are using to scare the populace. Instead of debating with facts (or, god forbid, coming up with their own plan for health care reform), they unleash their minions onto the 24 hour news programs to spread mistruths. Sickening

07-31-2009, 11:04 AM	#32 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	to the op: snopes.com: Euthanasia Counseling __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it. Last edited by uncle phil; 07-31-2009 at 11:08 AM..