filtherton

I'm sorry. I had been listening to Rush Limbaugh, and I guess I got so caught up in his message that I responded in a way that I though would make Rush proud of me.

Derwood

Back on topic, I find it fascinating just how GOOD these AM radio guys are at spreading their message. On a lark, I decided to read Neal Boortz's FairTax book, and it's like a transcript of his radio show, full of exclamation points and propaganda, "us vs. them" diatribes, etc. It's easy to see how a lot of people would read this and be easily convinced that it's the greatest idea ever, while conveniently talking around any of the cons. I imagine Mr. Boortz is very persuasive during his radio shows....

shakran

How about we cool off on the personal arguments and get back to arguing about political philosophies now?




I find it interesting that liberal and conservative talk show hosts are being glommed into the same boat so consistently in this thread. While I think anyone who exclusively gets their news from talk shows on either side of the aisle is begging for ignorance, I think there is a fundamental difference between the two.

I've heard left-wing firebrands like Thom Hartman, Mike Malloy, and Ed Schultz blast Obama several times already, and we're less than a year into his presidency. I don't recall ever hearing Limbaugh blast Bush. Ever. Only now, that the Republicans have imploded, is Limbaugh finally starting to criticize his party - and not over philosophical issues, but over the fact that they aren't good enough at tricking people into voting for them anymore.

I'm not saying the 3 liberals I mentioned are always, or even often, right. But I do think that they tend to be more willing to crucify anyone, Republican/Democrat/or other, if they think it's deserved.

I think that points to the fundamental difference in philosophy between left and right wing radio/TV hosts. The right wing tends to have a philosophy of "get him elected and keep him there as long as possible no matter what." The left tends to slant more toward "find the guy who will do what we think should be done and then keep on him after he gets elected to make sure he actually does it."

They've actually been getting pretty pissed off at Obama for not getting rid of "don't ask/don't tell," and for not trying to push through state-run/single payer healthcare, and for not prosecuting Bush & co. for war crimes.

It's also interesting to note that rightwing hosts tend to be in lockstep with the Republicans, while leftwing hosts tend to be more liberal than the "liberal" candidates. This, of course, is easy to understand when one realizes that this country does not have a left wing. The republicans are far to the right, and the democrats aren't quite as far out to the right.

Latenter

The problem is that regardless of what he believes, many of his listeners do accept everything he says at face value, same as with Hannity or Beck. A coworker of my wife is a sweet old lady, but firmly believes that the democrats are going to outlaw Christianity, hand out abortions like candy, and that Obama is a Muslim/the Antichrist. She's also very afraid of terrorists (in suburban Atlanta,) swine flu, and wouldn't turn her computer on for several days when the last computer virus hype came through. She is otherwise educated, smart, and very nice, but listens exclusively to conservative radio/news and watches mostly religious programing.

I'd consider myself a political moderate, but many of the conservative voices are polarizing the country and promoting a culture of fear and ignorance. And people let them.

Derwood

There is certainly a healthy amount of "telling the listeners what they want to hear" on some of these shows

Baraka_Guru

These shows could be classified as "alarmist radio."

They fill a niche in the entertainment spectrum.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Derwood

Limbaugh On The Sanford Affair: It's Obama's Fault! | TPMDC

Rush is amazing. I'm surprised he hasn't drilled himself into the ground with all the spinning

roachboy

i seem to be having a j.g. ballard afternoon.
this is germaine:

Mississippi Review, 1991

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

uncle phil

my opinion?

(damn, what am i doing in this god-forsaken forum?)

limbaugh, hannity, coulter, and others of that ilk are fomenters of hate - not differing opinions, hate. "let's see who we can get at each other's throats today, fellow am hosts?"

it is sad to hear of and know in real life supposedly educated individuals hanging by every word these wanna-be goebbels' spew forth...

__________________
"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
-----------------------------------------
"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
-----------------------------------------
never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.

n0nsensical

I'm a fan of Limbaugh's drug habit--I wish I could afford that!

__________________
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." --Abraham Lincoln

ASU2003

I heard that today and was amazed that he somehow managed to blame Obama. I didn't think it was possible.

I wonder why he went to Hawaii instead of Mexico (or the Cayman Islands, Bahamas, Jamaica,...) to escape Obama.

And he talked about how Obama's answer last night was to give patients pain pills when extra surgery would just prolong suffering and make the quality of life worse. It is the one thing Rush might have some credibility on since he knows a thing or two about that topic.

He also wants them to be the party of NO! They do have NO new ideas, NO way to fix the problems we face, NO compassion, and NO leaders left. It sounds about right.

edwhit

I hear you guys talk about all the hate coming from the AM radio hosts and yet all I hear is hate coming from you guys towards them and anyone that isn't on the far left as the majority of you guys seem to be.

No, I don't subscribe to every spin I hear coming from the Golden Microphone but neither do I put my trust in the man that seems to think any change is good change. In a country where the vocal majority lean left I don't think there's much harm in the rantings of a couple right wing lunatics throwing out counter thoughts. I have to admit, I hear a lot of people counter their claims with "they are just full of hate" than I do with reasonable counter arguments. Always seems like a cop out.

I hear a lot of hate on the radio for sure. But I hear just as much every day from liberals on the forums.

Rekna

Is this your vision of the US? Because it sure seems like it


|------------FAR LEFT---------------------------CENTER----------------FAR RIGHT------|
|-Media---TFP--*Fake Americans-------------*Real Americans---RUSH----------------|

*Fake and Real are defined according to Sarah Palin.

lofhay

If I ever hear Limbaugh, Hannity or Coulter say what they think with a calm, reasonable approach, then I might be willing to listen. Instead they always seem to be ranting, i.e. bellowing out, appealing to emotion rather than reason. If there are any on the left who come across this way, I am not aware of it.

I don't trust "ranters". It has been my experience that, if you have a solid, logical argument, you don't need to rant in order to get people to believe you.

boink

\YES !!
try listening to NPR on and off. actually, just leave it on. I just find it appealing to listen to people talk calmly about the issues of the day. I can't stand the yelling. it comes off as childish I feel like I'm being "bated" into listening (not that I've listened to Rush on the radio) I mean come on man he's a lying sack of shit.

__________________
when you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer. Superstition ain't the way.

ASU2003

Rush has reached a whole new level of class with him speeding up the voices of the Democrats. Way to actually come up with better ideas instead of being the equivalent of a junior high school bully.

SecretMethod70

Don't choose entertainment over accuracy. The vast majority of talk radio is not designed to be an accurate purveyor of news. Rather, it exists to entertain and reinforce particular worldviews. NPR is soothing (read: not abrasive and full of high emotions) and has infrequent listener call ins because their goal is not to entertain or spin, but to inform.This is an absolutely worthwhile post to read again, and it is why I have a higher tolerance for liberal "commentators" than the conservative ones.

When I was in high school and very early on in college, I used to love watching Bill O'Reilly. He seemed so... common sense! I bought into the "no spin zone" for a bit and thought "here's a place I can get straight-forward news from someone who tells it like it is." The most important point is that he was entertaining!

Then I started to pay more attention... partly because I started to actually study political science, partly because of the situation our country was getting into, and partly just because I was growing older and more critical of where I get my news. What's fairly easy to discover, if you take the time to look just below the surface, is that much of what is said is simply not true. I enjoy Rachel Maddow and Keith Olbermann, and it is important to realize that they are the closest "liberal" equivalent to O'Reilly and Hannity... except they're not. Yes, their shows are more accurately described as entertaining opinion shows than news shows, but there is a dishonesty that professional commentators on the right have that many on the left do not. You do not frequently hear Olbermann or Maddow yelling at guests to "SHUT UP!" or hear about guests complaining that their interview was dishonestly edited (and those are just two examples).

It's like that classic Colbert line: "reality has a well-known liberal bias." Olbermann and Maddow, like O'Reilly and Hannity, are entertainers first and foremost. In the case of Olbermann and Maddow, though, there is a far greater willingness to find entertainment within the actual facts and news, where O'Reilly, Hannity, Limbauch, Beck, etc all frequently feel the need to misrepresent the facts in order to serve their entertainment and predetermined message. You're not getting the full story from either source, but only one makes a habit of being downright deceptive.

I forget who it was further up in the thread that made the observation that Limbaugh (and the others) start out at an almost reasonable point A and then gradually take the listener over to point B such that it doesn't seem so crazy... except it is! There are far too many examples to list, but how about two of the most recent topics: Obama may not be a natural-born American citizen (debunked MONTHS ago) and Obama's health care plan will secretly euthanize the elderly population (Aside for the obvious reasons why this is a paranoid conspiracy, if you listen to "liberal" commentators you'd know Obama doesn't even HAVE a health care plan - they've been criticizing his lack of specifics for awhile now).So, to bring this back to NPR....

Seriously, ditch the talk radio that serves to entertain, and let NPR be your source for news on the radio. Think about what you said earlier: you had a hard time listening to NPR because it was too soothing and did not spend a large amount of time providing a soapbox to the general public instead of doing actual reporting. Should the priority of a news source be to entertain or to inform?

I remember when I stumbled upon NPR years ago. It did take some getting used to, not being consistently entertained by the radio. Now, I pretty much leave NPR on and never change the station while driving. It was a gradual process to get there, but I not only found myself appreciating their reporting, I also slowly started listening to programs and topics I initially had no interest in.

Not all public radio is created equal: I'm fortunate to be in the Chicago Public Radio market, which is seen as one of the best in the country. That said, while driving to Iowa a few weeks ago I listened to the various public radio stations along the way and they were each informative and interesting. NPR programs get a lot of play obviously, as do PRI, APM, etc, so there is overlap but there is often local, original programming too. Here's a tip on finding the public radio station wherever you go: I don't remember the exact number, but all public radio stations are below the FM frequency of 94 or something like that (I think it's actually 92 or 93, but I said 94 to be sure).

If public radio is not enough for you - if you still feel the need to listen to Hannity, Limbaugh, etc - then balance it out. Public radio does not take the time to debunk those guys, instead taking the "ignore them and they'll go away" approach. So if you're going to listen to them, start downloading the audio podcasts to Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow. You'll find them here: Podcasts on MSNBC.com- msnbc.com

And one last thing: I'll second (or third?) the recommendation to read The Economist for a more reasonable, informed conservative viewpoint.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

dy156

I used to listen to conservative talk radio as I drove around all day every day. I finally got fed up enough that I quit cold-turkey after the BUsh Kerry election and started listening to sports talk. (In Dallas, the ticket or espn radio -Michael Irvin during the lunch hour- he has great guests but there's a guy that can't use the English language.)

Then last month, with training camps still weeks away and nothing to talk about on sports talk except Michael Vick and the tour de France... I switched to country music again for the 1st time in a long time. I swear there's more wisdom in those lyrics than comes from the mouths of the talk show hosts.

p.s. just to drive everyone else nuts... NPR drives me nuts with the foreign accents and pretentious instrumental interludes, and Bill O'Reilly I have no respect for because I think he's a pervert.

josobot

Forget about Rush etc. Think of the Utopians and their dreams...Marx, Nietzsche,etc. and their practical manifestations...Communism & Naziism. And realize that when Utopian political leaders fail, they start to remove the "bad" citizens that prevent Utopia. Ultimately they believe society and human nature can be changed ...even if it involves selective culling and breeding.

SecretMethod70

What a well-reasoned argument, displaying a clear handling of the facts.

I won't bother addressing the "Utopian" elements of the post, because frankly they're not worth the time. Here's a quick clue: if you have to resort to name-calling and generalizations, you're probably not making a very good argument This is, in fact, one of the primary problems of talk radio: too much time spent pointing fingers and "framing" the issues, and not enough time actually discussing the issues.

The one thing I will address... Have you ever read Nietzsche? He wasn't a Nazi. The Nazi's liked to pick and choose from his writings, but he was definitely not a Nazi. In fact, his opposition to such ideas is what caused a rift between him and his good friend, Richard Wagner, who was an early example of fascist/Nazi thought. If you don't feel like actually reading what Nietzsche wrote, at least read here and here so that you can learn a little bit about why equating Nietzsche with Nazism is a mistake.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

FuglyStick

I seem to have missed this thread. *whew*

__________________
AZIZ! LIGHT!

Baraka_Guru

What? No mention of Ayn Rand's Objectivist utopia? Maybe it's because it hasn't really been attempted on a large enough scale. Perhaps we should be grateful for that.

It's interesting, though, because I'm assuming conservative talk radio either consciously or subconsciously subscribes to such a thing, at least in some capacity--mainly the worshiping laissez-faire capitalism bit. I don't mind being told I'm wrong. I actually hope I am, and this is why: I fear that Rand's philosophy (Objectivism) would do as much to capitalism's influence on society as Lenin's philosophy (Leninism) did to Marxism's influence on society.

Wouldn't that be fun?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Derwood

Rand's Utopia wouldn't work because it's a WORK OF FICTION

Baraka_Guru

At least someone gets it....

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Willravel

When in fact the real US looks more like this:
|FAR LEFT-----------------------------------------CENTER-----------------------------------------FAR RIGHT|
|----------------------------TFP------Left Wing Media----Average Americans-------------------Bush Conservatives-------Hannity, ORLY-----Rush, Beck------------------------------------------Birthers-|