Afghanistan law legalizes rape within a marriage - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Baraka_Guru · 04-01-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Outrage over Afghan law legalizing rape in marriage

Updated Wed. Apr. 1 2009 3:16 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

A new Afghan law that dramatically inhibits the rights of women, including reportedly legalizing rape within marriage, has raised the ire of Canadian politicians from all parties, who are demanding that President Hamid Karzai clarify his position on the legislation.

The new law, which conflicting reports say has either passed or is still under consideration, would apply to the country's Shia minority. It would reportedly make it illegal for a woman to refuse to have sex with her husband and forbid her from leaving home without her husband's permission.

The law would also reportedly grant custody rights to fathers and grandfathers.

During a heated debate in the House of Commons on Wednesday, NDP Leader Jack Layton expressed his disappointment in the law and asked the Conservative government how it plans to respond.

"Can the government tell us today how it's going to express the disappointment of the Canadian people with regard to these laws that attack women?" Layton asked during question period.

International Trade Minister Stockwell Day reiterated comments he made Tuesday about the law, saying the government has asked for an explanation from Karzai.

"What is very clear, is that we are concerned with the provisions in this law as we see them," he said, "and we are calling unequivocally upon the government in Afghanistan to make sure they live up to their international treaty obligations for human rights, especially human rights for women."

NDP defence critic Dawn Black said news of the legislation would be disheartening to the thousands of Canadian soldiers who have served in Afghanistan.

"The government has said over and over again that the underpinning of this mission was to defend women's rights and to provide education for girls," Black said. "Mr. Speaker, after all the sacrifices, after all that Canadian families have put on the line, could this really end up being what we're fighting for in Afghanistan?"

Earlier Wednesday, Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff sharply rebuked the Afghan government upon hearing of the legislation.

Ignatieff said that he is "outraged on behalf of Afghan women. Citizens of that country deserve better."

Karzai has yet to comment on the law. However, reports indicate the legislation has Karzai's support, according to Michael Wodzicki of Rights & Democracy.

"It seems more that it's a question of politicking in the sense that Afghanistan is having elections in August, President Karzai is up for election, and from what we can tell this law is a part of that process, in terms of Mr. Karzai trying to get votes from the Shia population," Wodzicki said Wednesday on CTV Newsnet.

On Tuesday, Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon, who was attending a conference on Afghanistan in Europe, spoke to two Afghan cabinet ministers about the law. Cannon has yet to comment on what came of those discussions.

In 2001, NATO troops forced out Afghanistan's ruling Taliban regime, which strictly followed sharia law. Under Taliban rule, women could not attend school, hold jobs, go out in public uncovered or see a male doctor without being accompanied by a male relative.

While Afghanistan's current constitution guarantees equal rights for women, it allows the Shia to have a separate family law that is based on religious traditions.

According to Wodzicki, human rights groups work with Afghan politicians and citizens to ensure that laws reflect the Afghan constitution as well as other, more progressive, laws that are passed in other countries.

However, it's work that could take generations.

"Culture is something that takes years, decades, even centuries to develop. And when we're talking about developing a culture of human rights and a culture that protects women's rights in Afghanistan, it's not going to take place in the eight years that has passed since the fall of the Taliban," Wodzicki said. "This is a long-term endeavour."

With files from The Canadian Press

CTV.ca | Outrage over Afghan law legalizing rape in marriage

What is going on in Afghanistan?

Didn't we topple the Taliban to pave the way for democracy and all its trappings? Does this not include women's rights?

It isn't known whether it's passed quite yet, but the new law applies the the Shia minority and states that wives cannot refuse sex from their husbands and cannot leave their homes without permission. Is this the kind of thing we are fighting for in Afghanistan? Don't the women there deserve better?

I think the is a step in the wrong direction...ie. back into the direction of the Taliban regime. What will we see next? I cannot say I understand Shia law that well, but I cannot see how this has a place within a supposed democracy.

Should this kind of thing factor in Canada's and America's decisions to continue with their Afghanistan missions?
Do you accept the reasoning "you cannot change a culture in a few short years"?
How much weight should Western politicians have in these kinds of policy decisions? Should they have any say?
Does Shia law have any place anywhere within a democracy?

genuinegirly · 04-01-2009, 01:13 PM

Women's rights is a relatively new concept in the scope of human civilization. In their eyes, women are still property. It will take a long time for the popular opinion to change. Foreign governments forcing such a change - Strong-arming them into accepting women's rights at present will likely serve only to make them bitter. It's disgusting. But it's their country. They need to come to these conclusions on their own.

Cimarron29414 · 04-01-2009, 01:50 PM

This is what happens when our government takes their eye off the ball. While I believe we should have eventually gone into Iraq (different discussion), it was definitely the wrong time to do it. This is an example of why...we are going to have to re-fight the battle we already fought, thus making the early deaths of the soldiers, a death in vain.

Should this kind of thing factor in Canada's and America's decisions to continue with their Afghanistan missions? No, we fight for those who can't fight for themselves. That's what makes us great nations. Those women will live another 1000 years under this BS unless we help them.
Do you accept the reasoning "you cannot change a culture in a few short years"? Perhaps not the outer most regions that are extremely rural. However, we could have made great strides had we not taken our eyes off the ball.
How much weight should Western politicians have in these kinds of policy decisions? Should they have any say? Well, that's like asking how much say the Obama administration should have in GM? I would imagine that you would say "A tremendous amount, we have controlling interest". I would then reply, it's the same thing.
Does Shia law have any place anywhere within a democracy? None - it is the exact opposite of true democracy. Since Afghanistan does not have money or resources, those who crave power can only control other people. Sharia Law is a way for men to control their women and their children, and thus feel powerful. Since it is falsely rooted in their religion, those who oppose it are deemed infidels and are killed. Thus, those who oppose it do not dare organize in masses to make substantive change. That is why we need to be there to give them a voice.

I am a person of faith and I do recognize that evil people can use organized religion as a means of controlling the masses and obtaining power. That's all Sharia law is, in my opinion.

cdwonderful · 04-01-2009, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genuinegirly

Women's rights is a relatively new concept in the scope of human civilization. In their eyes, women are still property. It will take a long time for the popular opinion to change. Foreign governments forcing such a change - Strong-arming them into accepting women's rights at present will likely serve only to make them bitter. It's disgusting. But it's their country. They need to come to these conclusions on their own.

let em be bitter.... its just wrong

dlish · 04-01-2009, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genuinegirly

Women's rights is a relatively new concept in the scope of human civilization. In their eyes, women are still property. It will take a long time for the popular opinion to change. Foreign governments forcing such a change - Strong-arming them into accepting women's rights at present will likely serve only to make them bitter. It's disgusting. But it's their country. They need to come to these conclusions on their own.

gg when you refer to property, it depends on what you mean.

do you mean it in actual ownership? as in buying or selling?

are you speaking about religion or culture? although its intertwined, there are vasts differences.

under islamic law, a man does not 'own' his wife. but she is under his protectorate where he must provide for her in every aspect irrespective of what she owns.

i dont know why this applies to Shia population only though. but why would it need to be a a part of legislation?

women in afghanistan dont have many rights afforded to them. but people need to remember that this is a rugged country that has been ravaged by war for 30 odd years. would you expect world leading laws being passed? they are tribal people, and the west wants to impregnate western ideas into an illiterate foreign population. do we really think it will work?

as much as i disagree with this new law, i really dont why see how other countries find the need to tell others how to legislate. is it really canada's (or anyone's) role to police such things?

Seaver · 04-02-2009, 05:00 PM

Hate to break it to everyone, but it was only in the '70s here when rape within marriage was officially declared.

silent_jay · 04-05-2009, 07:15 PM

Seems the Afghan government has had a change of heart.
edmontonsun.com - Canada - Cannon tells CBC Afghanistan has sidelined Shia 'rape law'

Quote:

Cannon tells CBC Afghanistan has sidelined Shia 'rape law'
Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon has told the CBC that Afghanistan is pulling back from a controversial law on women’s rights.

The network says Cannon met the Afghan foreign minister and was told that the process of putting the law into effect has been halted.

“He actually assured me that the process has been halted pursuant to a cabinet discussion yesterday of which he was part as well as, of course, president (Hamid) Karzai,” Cannon said.

“A decision was made to halt this legislation and, at the same time, send this package back to the minister of justice so that the minister of justice can put together a package that will abide, of course, by the constitution of Afghanistan and, at the same time, respect the rights of individuals, of course, the rights of women.”

The law, which applied only to the minority Shia community, would have forbidden women from refusing to have sex with their husbands and from leaving the home without permission.

Word of the legislation sparked outrage in Canada, where it was seen as a licence for marital rape.

Foreign Affairs said Canadian diplomats warned the Afghan government that the law was very troubling.

“Canada has made its position clear,” a Foreign Affairs spokeswoman wrote in an e-mail to The Canadian Press. “We call on the Afghan government, in the strongest of terms, to honour its human rights treaty obligations under international law, including respect for the equality of women before the law.

“Promoting and protecting human rights for all Afghans is a core element of Canada’s engagement in Afghanistan.”

04-01-2009, 01:13 PM	#2 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	Women's rights is a relatively new concept in the scope of human civilization. In their eyes, women are still property. It will take a long time for the popular opinion to change. Foreign governments forcing such a change - Strong-arming them into accepting women's rights at present will likely serve only to make them bitter. It's disgusting. But it's their country. They need to come to these conclusions on their own. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

04-01-2009, 01:50 PM	#3 (permalink)
Cimarron29414 Still Free Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!	This is what happens when our government takes their eye off the ball. While I believe we should have eventually gone into Iraq (different discussion), it was definitely the wrong time to do it. This is an example of why...we are going to have to re-fight the battle we already fought, thus making the early deaths of the soldiers, a death in vain. Should this kind of thing factor in Canada's and America's decisions to continue with their Afghanistan missions? No, we fight for those who can't fight for themselves. That's what makes us great nations. Those women will live another 1000 years under this BS unless we help them. Do you accept the reasoning "you cannot change a culture in a few short years"? Perhaps not the outer most regions that are extremely rural. However, we could have made great strides had we not taken our eyes off the ball. How much weight should Western politicians have in these kinds of policy decisions? Should they have any say? Well, that's like asking how much say the Obama administration should have in GM? I would imagine that you would say "A tremendous amount, we have controlling interest". I would then reply, it's the same thing. Does Shia law have any place anywhere within a democracy? None - it is the exact opposite of true democracy. Since Afghanistan does not have money or resources, those who crave power can only control other people. Sharia Law is a way for men to control their women and their children, and thus feel powerful. Since it is falsely rooted in their religion, those who oppose it are deemed infidels and are killed. Thus, those who oppose it do not dare organize in masses to make substantive change. That is why we need to be there to give them a voice. I am a person of faith and I do recognize that evil people can use organized religion as a means of controlling the masses and obtaining power. That's all Sharia law is, in my opinion. __________________ Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly." Last edited by Cimarron29414; 04-01-2009 at 01:52 PM.. Reason: Sentence was difficult to read

04-02-2009, 05:00 PM	#6 (permalink)
Seaver Junkie Location: Fort Worth, TX	Hate to break it to everyone, but it was only in the '70s here when rape within marriage was officially declared. __________________ "Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas