Frosstbyte

Frankly, the notion that the United States was founded to be run "by the people, for the people" is so impossibly wrong that I don't even know where to start. The barest examination of the Constitution and the people who made it should show without a shadow of a doubt that one of the things that the Founding Fathers feared MOST was that average people would be able to elect other average people. They were positively terrified of mob rule and catering to the masses. Every single person who signed the Constitution was an elitist, and probably a good third of them weren't too far off of being monarchists. The electoral college was created specifically and exclusively to prevent "average people" from voting an "average person" into the presidency. Granted, we've departed significantly from that starting position, but please don't try to play some game about the US being a pure democracy and being intended as a pure democracy, since neither of those are true.

I have NO idea why you don't want the best and brightest this country has running it. I have NO idea why the person who controls a weapon arsenal capable of reducing our planet to radioactive ash should be anything but the most grounded and intelligent person possible. The presidency is not an average job for an average person, nor is the vice presidency. These people are the diplomatic and military leaders of the (waning) most powerful country in the world.

If you want to have a cook out with Sarah Palin, be my guest. Please be her best friend. But look at her and what she's said, and imagine her talking to Putin. Imagine her negotiating over nuclear weapons with North Korea. Imagine her discussing Al Qaeda with the leaders of Afghanistan and Pakistan. The very thought of that is enough to make me ill. It's not because she's a woman. It's not because she's from Alaska. It's because she has no idea what's going on in the world or how politics works. She is READING CARDS that other people put in front of her and told her to stick to so she didn't do what she did with Katie Couric. She makes Bush look like the platonic form of a competent politician.

reconmike

\

Had to laugh kinda hard at this, a paper being due isn't pressure, still laughing sorry.

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Jozrael

It most certainly is pressure. Is it comparable to a nuclear-capable country possibly at odds with your own getting antsy? Certainly not. But people work with what they're dealt.

And that doesn't invalidate his point at all, which is quite true.

reconmike

Ok you win, the pressure is intense, mommy and daddy will be so mad if I tank this paper.

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Jozrael

...you're missing the point entirely.

Tully Mars

Sir, I think you're beating a dead horse.

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reconmike

I am not missing the point, the pressure Palin has been under in her life is far superior than a phd student's paper, but I am sure not as extreme as say JFK's duing the Cuban missle crisis.

Am I concerned about her being a heartbeat away from the oval office? Sure but I still believe it is better than the alternative.
-----Added 3/10/2008 at 10 : 25 : 25-----
That's right, this board has turned into the tilted democratic rah rah forum.

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Tully Mars

And you would know this because? You've lived Palin's life and have been in a doctoral program?

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reconmike

Please let us be realistic, Mother, mayor, Governor the same as e=mc2.

Edit to add, one of my best friends in the world is a MD, I'll ask him next time if he thinks Palin has had more stress in her life.

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Tully Mars

Academia, esp. at a level like doctoral, are extremely stressful and you get to do it with out a staff. I was in a masters program for a brief time and decided I couldn't continue meeting one deadline, often with little or no notice, after another while working full time and raising a kid.

I was put in some stressful situations while in the service. I wouldn't discount the stress of a doctoral program after seeing what that entails.

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reconmike

I'll state it again, if there was a stress-o-meter of life, being realitive in life a doctorate program would be near the bottom, I would say just living in Darfur would rank above it.

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The_Jazz

Mike, I'd say you're pretty unqualified to make this kind of statement since you've never been a doctorate student nor a public servant. Unless you have some personal news to share, this is the same as me saying that an Army Ranger is tougher than a Recon Marine and that a Navy SEAL would kick both their asses at the same time?

And I'm not ex-military, just in case you forgot.

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flstf

I thought Palin was chipper and so gosh darn upbeat that she came out ahead since she didn't have another Miss South Carolina moment. I thought Biden looked rather wore out at the end. It was almost like he was debating the captain of the cheerleading squad, not that there's anything wrong with that.

No train wreck here. I don't think either one hurt or helped the top of the ticket which is about what you'd expect.

hannukah harry

i think the whole 'of the people, for the people, by the people' is a fancy way of saying "we don't have a king or royal family here." not "any old idiot should run the country." any old idiot has been running the country. i'd prefer not to have his yokel cousin taking over anytime soon.

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Coolyo

Biden did better than expected, and Palin did as much as expected

So I say Biden won.

pig

All I can say is that if I hear "maverick" or "straight-talk express" again, I might throw up. I thought Biden clearly came out on top, but I would expect him to. Palin made me want to hide from the TV. Sort of the way I felt at times during "Bad Santa" or "Meet the Parents"...when it hurts you to watch the character, but you do so anyway with a morbid type of fascination. She might be a swell lady, and she might be a ball-buster when cornered...but I don't see anything about her general level of knowledge, personality, or hubris that speaks to holding one of the highest offices in our country. Please go back to Wasilla.

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Tully Mars

And your doctor friend is going to know what Palin's level of stress has been during her life why?

You clearly believe one thing, I another.

Think it's time to simply agree to disagree.

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asaris

So, Ace, you think we still need to keep troops in Iraq? Explain to me, then, just why you think the surge was successful?

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Rekna

Did I ever suggest that being a phd student was more stressful than running a state or a country? No! I was merely using a personal experience of paper deadlines as an example of how timelines help produce work. Also it seem to me that you have a skewed idea of what a paper really is. The papers i'm referring to are either conference, journals, or proposals which are much different than the papers you right in undergrad. Right now i'm involved in the writing of a research proposal that will hopefully bring in a million dollars to the university. If we don't get this we have to fire multiple staff and students. You dismiss this process as if it isn't stressful which is absolutely ignorant on your part.

roachboy

well, the "surge" can be understood as "working" if you leave out the agreement with the mahdi army for a cease fire. but given that the ceasefire seems the more operative condition of possibility for reductions of violence than anything else, mentioning it is a problem for the few remaining supporters of the iraq war because it demonstrates that maybe diplomacy might get more and better results.

but of course such things play out in circular reasoning and this will probably be no exception.

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guyy

A straight-talker answers questions. Palin and McCain do not. They are typical dodge and weavers.

Considering that McCain surrendered to his inevitable defeat in Michigan right after the debate, i'd have to say that the Moose Skinner's effect was negligible.

Tully Mars

I thought the timing was odd on that. Do you think it was only a funding issue? Or did they think her debate performance was going to be so bad they decided to release this news at the same time, kind of overload the press and hide this little fact. Seems like if they start bailing on states the donations are going to start drying up rather quickly. No one wants to bet on a loosing horse.

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guyy

Well, he is losing. I think his internals said what i've been saying about Michigan for a while: he had no chance. Given that he has a fight in Indiana (which is simply amazing), that he's now losing ground in Ohio, Virginia, NC, that Iowa (which went for Bush in '04) is out of reach... he had to go on the defensive. He simply had no choice.

There are rumours that he's about to give up in Ohio, which would mean that this one's pretty much over.

Tully Mars

Very interesting. Haven't been watching the state by state match ups that close. I agree if he's cooked in Ohio he's cooked. Any particular place you're hearing these rumored Ohio towel toss?

Just went and took a glanced at Real Clear Politics and the polls there. McCain was up in Florida by over 6pts on 9/16 now he's down by 3pts. He can't win if he doesn't win Florida, IMO.

I don't think this financial crisis (if it is a crisis) has been good for McCain at all.

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guyy

Tully -- it was someone involved in the campaign in Wisconsin. I don't really believe it, because if McCain folds in Ohio, he really has no chance -- even with Florida. He could even take MN & WI & Fla. (doubtful), yet still lose if he can't take Ohio. All Obama would have to do is seal the deal in New Mexico and Colorado, where he is doing pretty well.

On the other hand, that abandoning Ohio is even a rumour suggests that he is in deep shit.

Tully Mars

Take a gander over at RCP and their polls. If Obama takes all the states he's got solid, leaning his way and even wins a state like Virginia then McCain is toast. That means Obama could lose Florida and Ohio and still get over the 270 mark.

This is some the Obama people have proved themselves at, where and how many votes specifically it takes to win. They caught Hilary flat footed and she never recovered, IMHO.

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guyy

You're right. If Obama can hold on to the states he has, then he only needs to pick up 6 more electoral votes. These could come from any one of the seven toss-up states. Those are: Virginia, N. Carolina, Florida, Ohio, Indiana, Missouri, or Colorado. (Nevada is very close, too, but it only has 5 electoral votes.)

McCain has to win all of those states, or win most of them and pry away an Obama state or two. Given Obama's funding advantage, that's going to be very difficult. I wouldn't call him toast quite yet, but it doesn't look good for him.

Paq

wow
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...54bc0adc5d.jpg

and i thought bush didn't do that well...i was wrong

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pig

paq: that can't be real, and how did it get leaked?

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Tully Mars

That was my thought too pig. People were releasing Bush Jr's IQ scores at 91. That turned out to be BS, I think this will be too.

However I still wonder why she went to so many colleges to get her degree.

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pig

if it is true, and people focus on it, it will play nicely into the liberal elitism angle.

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Poppinjay

Palin's IQ is 116. That puts her in the "bright" category.

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roachboy

i had a dream the other night from which i only remember a fragment.
i was standing at the end of a bowling alley watching a ball roll up the lane. it would rotate twice as a ball, then switch to sarah palin's head. sarah palin's head would rotate once and switch back into being a bowling ball. this happened several times.

like i said, i don't remember anything else directly. the score of the game seemed indifferent, and whatever else happened was such that it was equally plausible that i had launched the ball down the lane or that i just happened to occupy the viewpoint of someone else who had launched the ball down the lane.

the bowling ball/sarah palin's head did not seem particularly bright or not bright.
it just rolled along the wood of the lane, switching back and forth, over and over.

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Paq

WikiAnswers - What was sarah palin's SAT score this is about the most reasonable assumption that can be made IF the pic in question isn't true.

the hawaiian university seems in line with the pic if you're going by 'first choices' but i've also read that the hawaiian university has no record of her ever attending....

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hannukah harry

the problem with IQ is it really doesn't tell us much. it says (at best) that some has 'x' capability. but if you're really bright, or even genius level based on IQ, and have no real interest in the world around you, it doesn't do you very much good.

i don't doubt that she's got at least some intelligence (how much can be argued), but she seems to have very little interest in the world around her outside of a very narrow area. if she were a scientist researching cancer cures or how to make drought resistant grain, taht'd be fine. but for a president or VP, that's not a good trait.

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