Oh Yeah, Saddam had WMD's - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Lebell · 04-21-2003, 09:09 AM

LINK

Illicit Arms Kept Till Eve of War, an Iraqi Scientist Is Said to Assert
Mon Apr 21, 8:59 AM ET

By JUDITH MILLER The New York Times

WITH THE 101ST AIRBORNE DIVISION, south of Baghdad, Iraq (news - web sites), April 20 A scientist who claims to have worked in Iraq's chemical weapons program for more than a decade has told an American military team that Iraq destroyed chemical weapons and biological warfare equipment only days before the war began, members of the team said.

They said the scientist led Americans to a supply of material that proved to be the building blocks of illegal weapons, which he claimed to have buried as evidence of Iraq's illicit weapons programs.

The scientist also told American weapons experts that Iraq had secretly sent unconventional weapons and technology to Syria, starting in the mid-1990's, and that more recently Iraq was cooperating with Al Qaeda, the military officials said.

The Americans said the scientist told them that President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s government had destroyed some stockpiles of deadly agents as early as the mid-1990's, transferred others to Syria, and had recently focused its efforts instead on research and development projects that are virtually impervious to detection by international inspectors, and even American forces on the ground combing through Iraq's giant weapons plants.

An American military team hunting for unconventional weapons in Iraq, the Mobile Exploitation Team Alpha, or MET Alpha, which found the scientist, declined to identify him, saying they feared he might be subject to reprisals. But they said that they considered him credible and that the material unearthed over the last three days at sites to which he led them had proved to be precursors for a toxic agent that is banned by chemical weapons treaties.

The officials' account of the scientist's assertions and the discovery of the buried material, which they described as the most important discovery to date in the hunt for illegal weapons, supports the Bush administration's charges that Iraq continued to develop those weapons and lied to the United Nations (news - web sites) about it. Finding and destroying illegal weapons was a major justification for the war.

The officials' accounts also provided an explanation for why United States forces had not yet turned up banned weapons in Iraq. The failure to find such weapons has become a political issue in Washington.

Under the terms of her accreditation to report on the activities of MET Alpha, this reporter was not permitted to interview the scientist or visit his home. Nor was she permitted to write about the discovery of the scientist for three days, and the copy was then submitted for a check by military officials.

Those officials asked that details of what chemicals were uncovered be deleted. They said they feared that such information could jeopardize the scientist's safety by identifying the part of the weapons program where he worked.

The MET Alpha team said it reported its findings to Washington after testing the buried material and checking the scientist's identity with experts in the United States. A report was sent to the White House on Friday, experts said.

Military spokesmen at the Pentagon (news - web sites) and at Central Command headquarters in Doha, Qatar, said they could not confirm that an Iraqi chemical weapons scientist was providing American forces with new information.

The scientist was found by a team headed by Chief Warrant Officer Richard L. Gonzales, the leader of MET Alpha, one of several teams charged with hunting for unconventional weapons throughout Iraq. Departing from his team's assigned mission, Mr. Gonzales and his team of specialists from the Defense Intelligence Agency tracked down the scientist on Thursday through a series of interviews and increasingly frantic site visits.

While this reporter could not interview the scientist, she was permitted to see him from a distance at the sites where he said that material from the arms program was buried.

Clad in nondescript clothes and a baseball cap, he pointed to several spots in the sand where he said chemical precursors and other weapons material were buried. This reporter also accompanied MET Alpha on the search for him and was permitted to examine a letter written in Arabic that he slipped to American soldiers offering them information about the program and seeking their protection.

Military officials said the scientist told them that four days before President Bush (news - web sites) gave Mr. Hussein 48 hours to leave Iraq or face war, Iraqi officials set fire to a warehouse where biological weapons research and development was conducted.

The officials quoted him as saying he had watched several months before the outbreak of the war as Iraqis buried chemical precursors and other sensitive material to conceal and preserve them for future use. The officials said the scientist showed them documents, samples, and other evidence of the program that he claimed to have stolen to prove that the program existed.

MET Alpha is one of several teams created earlier this year to hunt for unconventional weapons in Iraq. Supported by the 75th Exploitation Task Force, a field artillery brigade based in Fort Sill, Okla., the teams were charged with visiting some 150 top sites that intelligence agencies have identified as suspect.

But the Pentagon-led teams, which include specialists from several Pentagon agencies, have been hampered by a lack of resources and by geography.

Because the task force has two expensive, highly sophisticated, transportable labs in which chemical and germ samples can be analyzed quickly, it was kept at a safe distance from fighting at a desert camp in Kuwait, just across the Iraqi border.

Unable to move their task force closer to Baghdad, where most of the suspect sites and scientists who worked in them are situated, the mobile exploitation teams have had to rely on scarce helicopters to travel to suspect sites in the Baghdad area. Until recently, these were reserved mainly for soldiers going to battle. As a result, most of the teams had done almost no weapons hunting until the fighting had largely concluded.

Two weeks ago, MET Alpha was finally given a mission of inspecting barrels filled with chemicals that were buried on the outskirts of Al Muhawish, a small town south of Baghdad. A small team with little equipment and virtually no supplies traveled to the town for what was supposed to be a half-day survey. The barrels turned out to contain no chemical weapons agents.

But during the survey of that site, Maj. Brian Lynch, the chemical officer of the 101st Airborne Division, told MET Alpha members about a report of suspect containers buried in the area that fit the description of mobile labs.

Other officers mentioned that a man who said he was an Iraqi scientist had given troops a note about Iraq's chemical warfare program. No one had yet followed up the report, they said, because of the fighting and also because similar tips had failed to produce evidence of unconventional weapons.

The team, with vehicles and supplies from the 101st Airborne Division, went out on its own to survey other sites and pursue the tip about the buried containers and the scientist. After completing a lengthy survey of one installation, Mr. Gonzales and other team members from the Defense Intelligence Agency's Chemical Biological Intelligence Support Team decided to try to find the scientist.

Mr. Gonzales tracked down the scientist's note, which had never been formally analyzed and was still in a brigade headquarters, along with the scientist's address, military officials said.

The next morning, MET Alpha weapons experts found the scientist at home, along with some documents from the program and samples he had buried in his backyard and at other sites.

The scientist has told MET Alpha members that because Iraq's unconventional weapons programs were highly compartmented, he only had firsthand information about the chemical weapons sector in which he worked, team members said.

But he has given the Americans information about other unconventional weapons activities, they said, as well as information about Iraqi weapons cooperation with Syria, and with terrorist groups, including Al Qaeda. It was not clear how the scientist knew of such a connection.

The potential of MET Alpha's work is "enormous," said Maj. Gen. David Petraeus, commander of the 101st Airborne Division.

"What they've discovered," he added, "could prove to be of incalculable value. Though much work must still be done to validate the information MET Alpha has uncovered, if it proves out it will clearly be one of the major discoveries of this operation, and it may be the major discovery."
--------------------------------------

I can't wait to hear the responses

MrSmashy · 04-21-2003, 09:20 AM

well so far we still don't have evidence. There is the possibility though.

Regardless of what they find their, there will always be those who question whether or not it was planted because the US didn't bring in an independent team to inspect.

Oh. And if anyone was thinking of writing "Why would the US do that?"...come on...there are reasons, the most important being legitimising the war.

MrSmashy · 04-21-2003, 09:21 AM

well so far we still don't have evidence. There is the possibility though.

Regardless of what they find their, there will always be those who question whether or not it was planted because the US didn't bring in an independent team to inspect.

Oh. And if anyone was thinking of writing "Why would the US do that?" to those who would question whether or not the US planted the stuff they might find...come on...there are reasons, the most important being legitimising the war.

Still, I have not evidence either way...I don't know whether or not I'd believe it if the US found it or not...

Lebell · 04-21-2003, 09:22 AM

MrSmashy,

Too easy to see through. You aren't talking about a cop planting a gun on a gang banger, you are talking about a coordinated deception involving hundreds of people over days of time and thousands of miles.

You might as well join the 'fake moonlandings' club.

Nad Adam · 04-21-2003, 10:37 AM

And this scientist will in a matter of weeks move into his all expenses paid beachhouse in Santa Monica.

MrSmashy · 04-21-2003, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lebell
MrSmashy,

Too easy to see through. You aren't talking about a cop planting a gun on a gang banger, you are talking about a coordinated deception involving hundreds of people over days of time and thousands of miles.

You might as well join the 'fake moonlandings' club.

I agree with you there. It would likely be alot harder to fake...but again we are talking about how it is perceived amongst those who don't want to believe it. I am indifferent as to whether the US finds them or not because I don't beleive the war was primarily about them (nor was it about oil...don't worry, I'm not one of those).

All I am saying is that independent inspectors would have been better.

maximusveritas · 04-21-2003, 11:09 AM

It mentions precursors, but won't name them because the military censored that out. Couldn't those precursors also be used commerically? Also, isn't it convenient that they just destroyed all the weapons? To be honest though, I'd rather believe that than the scenario where the weapons were transferred into hostile hands.

The_Dude · 04-21-2003, 01:32 PM

i dont know how much faith i can put on this guy

stan the man · 04-21-2003, 02:53 PM

no mater what the us says or finds not a single person outside the us will belive there really is wmd

maximusveritas · 04-21-2003, 08:31 PM

when you submit your story for censorship by the US military, no.

Lebell · 04-21-2003, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by maximusveritas
when you submit your story for censorship by the US military, no.

Yeah, Max, I'm sure the New York Times is actually a puppet of the US Govt and this story is actually a plant.

hotzot · 04-21-2003, 11:19 PM

how convenient!

Lebell · 04-22-2003, 08:19 AM

Question:

If these chemicals were intended for innocent use, why were they buried just days before the war started?

Dragonlich · 04-22-2003, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lebell
Question:

If these chemicals were intended for innocent use, why were they buried just days before the war started?

Duh! They were planted there by the CIA and the Mossad.

4thTimeLucky · 04-22-2003, 11:02 AM

That article was almost comical.

The US military is telling us that they have found an (unidentified) scientist who has told them that Iraq (a) had weapons of mass destruction 'really recently', (b) but destroyed all evidence of them just before war started and, besides, (c) was using methods of research that will be virtually undetectable. Oh, and Al Qaeda were in on it. And Syria too. And North Korea. And Hugo Chavez.

Oh, and by the way Miss Reporter, you can't speak to him or quote any facts about the nature of the chemicals he mentions, because someone might try and kill him.

A few questions:
- Why would a regime who knows that it will be destroyed try and get rid of all its chemical weapons? That's like a condemned man using his last phone call to ask his wife to burn his overdue speeding fines.
- Why 'really' couldn't a reporter talk to him?
- Who would still have either the power or the desire to assasinate one of hundreds of Iraqi scientists?
- Why can't the US military defend such a person?
- How likely is it that a random scientist would know the bigger picture about dealings with Syria and Al Qaeda?
- Why would Hussein help Al Qaede, one of his sworn enemies till the last?

guthmund · 04-25-2003, 12:44 AM

all very valid points 4thtimelucky.

I also have compelling evidence from a secret "official Iraqi source" that Saddam is responsible for the single largest child pornography ring, Iraq is also responsible for mailing out 4,564,879,456,131 AOL CDs this year to "current resident", and he likes to kick puppies and drown kittens in his spare time.

But.....I have no proof because Saddam sprinkled magic fairy dust on all the porn, shipped all the AOL stock out to Syria, yeah that's it, and burned all the millions of dead animal carcasses all without the U.S. the wiser.

Nad Adam · 04-25-2003, 04:36 AM

Shame on you 4thTimeLucky.

Stopping the discussion by exposing the enormous logical gaps.

Dragonlich · 04-25-2003, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 4thTimeLucky
- Why would a regime who knows that it will be destroyed try and get rid of all its chemical weapons? That's like a condemned man using his last phone call to ask his wife to burn his overdue speeding fines.

- Oh, I don't know... perhaps to make it look like the US had no reason to attack, in the hopes that international pressure will force them to withdraw before Iraq is secure, allowing Saddam to come back again? Not everything is always logical, okay? How's about this: the Iraqi government has denied having WMDs. How stupid would they look if the US forces had found a few on the first day of the war?

Quote:

- Why 'really' couldn't a reporter talk to him?

- Perhaps because the US wants to protect the witness??? Is that so hard to believe?

Quote:

- Who would still have either the power or the desire to assasinate one of hundreds of Iraqi scientists?

- If Saddam had tens of thousands of secret servicemen before the war (and he did), along with massive numbers of Ba'ath party followers, some more loyal than others, and he is planning to return... It is known that he has more than enough money to pay a few hitmen to protect his secrets.

Quote:

- Why can't the US military defend such a person?

- It only takes one bullet, or one bit of poisoned food, to kill an important witness. Your reasoning: Why would key witnesses in trials against the maffia in the US be protected by giving them a new identity; Can't the police protect them???

Quote:

- How likely is it that a random scientist would know the bigger picture about dealings with Syria and Al Qaeda?

- Perhaps it's not a "random" scientist? Perhaps he read some documents, and met some people? Perhaps he worked with these guys? How much more likely is it, that a scientist that has worked on WMD development, knows *more* about this stuff than a random Iraqi bus driver?

Quote:

- Why would Hussein help Al Qaede, one of his sworn enemies till the last?

- Because he wants to hurt the USA, and Al Qaida wants to do that too. Ever heard of the phrase "the enemy of my enemy is my friend?" Someone claiming to be Osama Bin Laden (could be him, of course) actually said that Muslims should help Iraq, even though Iraq is unislamic. For Saddam, the USA is a bigger foe than Al Qaida.

------------
I'm sure we'll either hear that this guy was a fraud, or that he was indeed correct. Assuming a story is true or false based on one news report is not really the way to deal with this issue.

Daval · 04-25-2003, 06:28 AM

this is hillarious

4thTimeLucky · 04-26-2003, 06:15 AM

Damnit, if I want to see a conspiracy theory, then I'll darn well see one.

I still think:
- Reporters can talk to people without endangering them, especially when her report was vetted by the military.
- If the the US can protect the Deputy Prime Minister and publicly report that he wants to spill all the beans in return for an English cottage, then they can do the same for a scientist.
- It is over for Saddam. Once the genie has been let out of the bottle and his infrastructure destroyed (as it now is) his power is gone. Very few people have a desire to support him and those that do are fanatically bent on attacking the American troops, not covering up for technical breaches of UN resolutions.
- Whilst consceding that scientist know more about WMDs than bus drivers... think about the position of senior engineers in the company you work for. Do they have knowledge of the goings on the boardroom?

Having said all that: Credit where credits due. You made me work for my money!

Sun Tzu · 04-26-2003, 04:57 PM

THere seems to be three other threads with exactly the same topic, but I'll post these images for any that dont make over to those. These images are final proof that Saddam was up to no good.

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PQDXAn0RIAkPUXTuu*7Ep4oua09z!gNUmGXLdvH9rvnfs3Y9tP5MlyyAhHNT0SNW!EU3*E8!3hXIpV4Mx270QwSScXiqUapO/DV.gif?dc=4675419028627321851[/IMG]

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwD0ApUTLZAAxM6EvfZUrTpD9CyWY4Oy6Or0ZmOVKs85Xdxak2JNcgVhNamOW6umVZIifQlV8Q5tTRr*3NlDpz*8DKbm3GX8tsi1pp29MNU/cpgw_151.jpg?dc=4675419028603085510[/IMG]

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PQDiAlIRIv*CRsjU0oBD8jVPnqV0Ux*cgW2zKIBj7tndReuNpxbve7Ql4Bv0qKhjeoQPCBcfxG!XGVNgGCfYNM12PkGXQt6o/22.jpg?dc=4675419028601944958[/IMG]

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RgDXAiEVSPdfTcTsliNU4TdwGyQNxsYqVzB7yV5WxzXMBcFW3pn*tzj4WYqDh3CKq!7slfHlERW2jOD8dv3ipE!2qGzSDGR6Q8K50pHvbgA/oildrums50_.jpg?dc=4675419029381958740[/IMG]

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RADiAsUTs5zKdDYxSxACL8a5hfthRXPubvtGsWh1!MstusliEPPFqHbj*8TYOD0L2TL*PcjxtcTDc*r2CNcBTF2g*LZugo9JexaXWqrdY14/D_day250_.jpg?dc=4675419028609648856[/IMG]

maximusveritas · 04-26-2003, 05:08 PM

I wonder how soon it'll be before FoxNews starts showing these images?

Mad_Gecko · 04-26-2003, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sun Tzu
THere seems to be three other threads with exactly the same topic, but I'll post these images for any that dont make over to those. These images are final proof that Saddam was up to no good.

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PQDXAn0RIAkPUXTuu*7Ep4oua09z!gNUmGXLdvH9rvnfs3Y9tP5MlyyAhHNT0SNW!EU3*E8!3hXIpV4Mx270QwSScXiqUapO/DV.gif?dc=4675419028627321851[/IMG]

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwD0ApUTLZAAxM6EvfZUrTpD9CyWY4Oy6Or0ZmOVKs85Xdxak2JNcgVhNamOW6umVZIifQlV8Q5tTRr*3NlDpz*8DKbm3GX8tsi1pp29MNU/cpgw_151.jpg?dc=4675419028603085510[/IMG]

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PQDiAlIRIv*CRsjU0oBD8jVPnqV0Ux*cgW2zKIBj7tndReuNpxbve7Ql4Bv0qKhjeoQPCBcfxG!XGVNgGCfYNM12PkGXQt6o/22.jpg?dc=4675419028601944958[/IMG]

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RgDXAiEVSPdfTcTsliNU4TdwGyQNxsYqVzB7yV5WxzXMBcFW3pn*tzj4WYqDh3CKq!7slfHlERW2jOD8dv3ipE!2qGzSDGR6Q8K50pHvbgA/oildrums50_.jpg?dc=4675419029381958740[/IMG]

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RADiAsUTs5zKdDYxSxACL8a5hfthRXPubvtGsWh1!MstusliEPPFqHbj*8TYOD0L2TL*PcjxtcTDc*r2CNcBTF2g*LZugo9JexaXWqrdY14/D_day250_.jpg?dc=4675419028609648856[/IMG]

Hmmmm. They are good pictures!.
Nuff said. Have we not closed those area down?

Oil Prices says we have, if I am wrong I need to change the trading strategy I am on...

George W Bush · 04-27-2003, 10:11 AM

I dont know about that second from the last one though! THe feet look odd.

KillerYoda · 04-27-2003, 09:37 PM

Remember, all though not trying to come off as too paranoid, but our government said in the past that this guy:
<img src="http://www.konformist.com/jfkland/oswho.jpg">
was the same as this guy:
<img src="http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/oswald4.gif">

You can't believe everything you hear.

Dragonlich · 04-27-2003, 11:36 PM

What the hell is wrong with some of you? On this forum, people are trying to debate things in a rational manner, and then some trolls come in and post "funny" pictures to mock the other side.

Now, I'm all for funny pictures, but *not* in a mature debate, okay? If your only reaction is to sour the discussion by doing something annoying (in multiple discussions!), perhaps you shouldn't post in these threads, hmm?

KillerYoda · 04-28-2003, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dragonlich
What the hell is wrong with some of you? On this forum, people are trying to debate things in a rational manner, and then some trolls come in and post "funny" pictures to mock the other side.

Mine weren't supposed to be funny. It's seriously in the Warren Report. I guess it comes off as funny, though, the obsurdity of it all.

Cynthetiq · 04-29-2003, 12:58 PM

maybe we'll be digging in the sand for years and years to come

BigBlueWrecking · 04-29-2003, 01:10 PM

I am very wary of what all Iraqi scientists say. One of them swore up and down about a lab underneath a hosital that has been searched roughly 40 times by the Us and the UN. Never have we found anything. I am not saying that they don't ahve some chemical weapons, but I think it show our intel is not as good as some believe. Either way, what they find will most likely not be a weapon to the extent that it could seriously hurt the US.

Sun Tzu · 04-29-2003, 01:34 PM

Dragonlich everyone has different ways of saying things. This is a gathering of people from all walks of life: Canada, the US, maybe even the Netherlands. I never claim to be right and sometimes will have my own way of putting something across. Sometimes if a see a flame war starting I will put a statement in that hopefully will put things in to perspective, sometimes I’ll fail. One thing I’ve never done is take things to a personal level. In the previous TFP I remember stating how proud I was of Americans constitution you told me to get off my high horse. Other times disagreeing with your stance with reasons why and similar snide remarks were launched by you. I’ve seen stances from all areas of a spectrum yield harsh personal statements. This is one troll who will make every attempt to curb his occasional poor judgment of input if the Oscar the grouches and Archie Bunkers out their will remember no two people think alike.

George W Bush · 04-30-2003, 04:53 PM

Partner, I get mad if I knew which side you were trying to make the point to, I can see how either side would either laugh or get pissed, maybe this is your version of a political cartoon. I dont know, I just take it for what it is. Some people lash out because they're just angry in general. Thats not sayin anything about anyone here though.

04-21-2003, 09:09 AM	#1 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Oh Yeah, Saddam had WMD's LINK Illicit Arms Kept Till Eve of War, an Iraqi Scientist Is Said to Assert Mon Apr 21, 8:59 AM ET By JUDITH MILLER The New York Times WITH THE 101ST AIRBORNE DIVISION, south of Baghdad, Iraq (news - web sites), April 20 A scientist who claims to have worked in Iraq's chemical weapons program for more than a decade has told an American military team that Iraq destroyed chemical weapons and biological warfare equipment only days before the war began, members of the team said. They said the scientist led Americans to a supply of material that proved to be the building blocks of illegal weapons, which he claimed to have buried as evidence of Iraq's illicit weapons programs. The scientist also told American weapons experts that Iraq had secretly sent unconventional weapons and technology to Syria, starting in the mid-1990's, and that more recently Iraq was cooperating with Al Qaeda, the military officials said. The Americans said the scientist told them that President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s government had destroyed some stockpiles of deadly agents as early as the mid-1990's, transferred others to Syria, and had recently focused its efforts instead on research and development projects that are virtually impervious to detection by international inspectors, and even American forces on the ground combing through Iraq's giant weapons plants. An American military team hunting for unconventional weapons in Iraq, the Mobile Exploitation Team Alpha, or MET Alpha, which found the scientist, declined to identify him, saying they feared he might be subject to reprisals. But they said that they considered him credible and that the material unearthed over the last three days at sites to which he led them had proved to be precursors for a toxic agent that is banned by chemical weapons treaties. The officials' account of the scientist's assertions and the discovery of the buried material, which they described as the most important discovery to date in the hunt for illegal weapons, supports the Bush administration's charges that Iraq continued to develop those weapons and lied to the United Nations (news - web sites) about it. Finding and destroying illegal weapons was a major justification for the war. The officials' accounts also provided an explanation for why United States forces had not yet turned up banned weapons in Iraq. The failure to find such weapons has become a political issue in Washington. Under the terms of her accreditation to report on the activities of MET Alpha, this reporter was not permitted to interview the scientist or visit his home. Nor was she permitted to write about the discovery of the scientist for three days, and the copy was then submitted for a check by military officials. Those officials asked that details of what chemicals were uncovered be deleted. They said they feared that such information could jeopardize the scientist's safety by identifying the part of the weapons program where he worked. The MET Alpha team said it reported its findings to Washington after testing the buried material and checking the scientist's identity with experts in the United States. A report was sent to the White House on Friday, experts said. Military spokesmen at the Pentagon (news - web sites) and at Central Command headquarters in Doha, Qatar, said they could not confirm that an Iraqi chemical weapons scientist was providing American forces with new information. The scientist was found by a team headed by Chief Warrant Officer Richard L. Gonzales, the leader of MET Alpha, one of several teams charged with hunting for unconventional weapons throughout Iraq. Departing from his team's assigned mission, Mr. Gonzales and his team of specialists from the Defense Intelligence Agency tracked down the scientist on Thursday through a series of interviews and increasingly frantic site visits. While this reporter could not interview the scientist, she was permitted to see him from a distance at the sites where he said that material from the arms program was buried. Clad in nondescript clothes and a baseball cap, he pointed to several spots in the sand where he said chemical precursors and other weapons material were buried. This reporter also accompanied MET Alpha on the search for him and was permitted to examine a letter written in Arabic that he slipped to American soldiers offering them information about the program and seeking their protection. Military officials said the scientist told them that four days before President Bush (news - web sites) gave Mr. Hussein 48 hours to leave Iraq or face war, Iraqi officials set fire to a warehouse where biological weapons research and development was conducted. The officials quoted him as saying he had watched several months before the outbreak of the war as Iraqis buried chemical precursors and other sensitive material to conceal and preserve them for future use. The officials said the scientist showed them documents, samples, and other evidence of the program that he claimed to have stolen to prove that the program existed. MET Alpha is one of several teams created earlier this year to hunt for unconventional weapons in Iraq. Supported by the 75th Exploitation Task Force, a field artillery brigade based in Fort Sill, Okla., the teams were charged with visiting some 150 top sites that intelligence agencies have identified as suspect. But the Pentagon-led teams, which include specialists from several Pentagon agencies, have been hampered by a lack of resources and by geography. Because the task force has two expensive, highly sophisticated, transportable labs in which chemical and germ samples can be analyzed quickly, it was kept at a safe distance from fighting at a desert camp in Kuwait, just across the Iraqi border. Unable to move their task force closer to Baghdad, where most of the suspect sites and scientists who worked in them are situated, the mobile exploitation teams have had to rely on scarce helicopters to travel to suspect sites in the Baghdad area. Until recently, these were reserved mainly for soldiers going to battle. As a result, most of the teams had done almost no weapons hunting until the fighting had largely concluded. Two weeks ago, MET Alpha was finally given a mission of inspecting barrels filled with chemicals that were buried on the outskirts of Al Muhawish, a small town south of Baghdad. A small team with little equipment and virtually no supplies traveled to the town for what was supposed to be a half-day survey. The barrels turned out to contain no chemical weapons agents. But during the survey of that site, Maj. Brian Lynch, the chemical officer of the 101st Airborne Division, told MET Alpha members about a report of suspect containers buried in the area that fit the description of mobile labs. Other officers mentioned that a man who said he was an Iraqi scientist had given troops a note about Iraq's chemical warfare program. No one had yet followed up the report, they said, because of the fighting and also because similar tips had failed to produce evidence of unconventional weapons. The team, with vehicles and supplies from the 101st Airborne Division, went out on its own to survey other sites and pursue the tip about the buried containers and the scientist. After completing a lengthy survey of one installation, Mr. Gonzales and other team members from the Defense Intelligence Agency's Chemical Biological Intelligence Support Team decided to try to find the scientist. Mr. Gonzales tracked down the scientist's note, which had never been formally analyzed and was still in a brigade headquarters, along with the scientist's address, military officials said. The next morning, MET Alpha weapons experts found the scientist at home, along with some documents from the program and samples he had buried in his backyard and at other sites. The scientist has told MET Alpha members that because Iraq's unconventional weapons programs were highly compartmented, he only had firsthand information about the chemical weapons sector in which he worked, team members said. But he has given the Americans information about other unconventional weapons activities, they said, as well as information about Iraqi weapons cooperation with Syria, and with terrorist groups, including Al Qaeda. It was not clear how the scientist knew of such a connection. The potential of MET Alpha's work is "enormous," said Maj. Gen. David Petraeus, commander of the 101st Airborne Division. "What they've discovered," he added, "could prove to be of incalculable value. Though much work must still be done to validate the information MET Alpha has uncovered, if it proves out it will clearly be one of the major discoveries of this operation, and it may be the major discovery." -------------------------------------- I can't wait to hear the responses __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

04-21-2003, 09:22 AM	#4 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	MrSmashy, Too easy to see through. You aren't talking about a cop planting a gun on a gang banger, you are talking about a coordinated deception involving hundreds of people over days of time and thousands of miles. You might as well join the 'fake moonlandings' club. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

04-21-2003, 10:37 AM	#5 (permalink)
Nad Adam Psycho Location: Sweden	And this scientist will in a matter of weeks move into his all expenses paid beachhouse in Santa Monica. __________________ Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. - Psalms 137:9

04-21-2003, 01:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	i dont know how much faith i can put on this guy __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

04-21-2003, 02:53 PM	#9 (permalink)
stan the man Insane	no mater what the us says or finds not a single person outside the us will belive there really is wmd __________________ long live the hud

04-21-2003, 09:20 AM	#2 (permalink)
MrSmashy Crazy Location: Soviet Canukistan	well so far we still don't have evidence. There is the possibility though. Regardless of what they find their, there will always be those who question whether or not it was planted because the US didn't bring in an independent team to inspect. Oh. And if anyone was thinking of writing "Why would the US do that?"...come on...there are reasons, the most important being legitimising the war.

04-21-2003, 09:21 AM	#3 (permalink)
MrSmashy Crazy Location: Soviet Canukistan	well so far we still don't have evidence. There is the possibility though. Regardless of what they find their, there will always be those who question whether or not it was planted because the US didn't bring in an independent team to inspect. Oh. And if anyone was thinking of writing "Why would the US do that?" to those who would question whether or not the US planted the stuff they might find...come on...there are reasons, the most important being legitimising the war. Still, I have not evidence either way...I don't know whether or not I'd believe it if the US found it or not...

04-21-2003, 11:09 AM	#7 (permalink)
maximusveritas Winner	It mentions precursors, but won't name them because the military censored that out. Couldn't those precursors also be used commerically? Also, isn't it convenient that they just destroyed all the weapons? To be honest though, I'd rather believe that than the scenario where the weapons were transferred into hostile hands.

04-21-2003, 08:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
maximusveritas Winner	when you submit your story for censorship by the US military, no.

04-21-2003, 11:19 PM	#12 (permalink)
hotzot We're having potato pancakes! Location: stalag 13	how convenient! __________________ The Bully Boys are here!

04-22-2003, 08:19 AM	#13 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Question: If these chemicals were intended for innocent use, why were they buried just days before the war started? __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

04-22-2003, 11:02 AM	#15 (permalink)
4thTimeLucky Psycho Location: 4th has left the building - goodbye folks	That article was almost comical. The US military is telling us that they have found an (unidentified) scientist who has told them that Iraq (a) had weapons of mass destruction 'really recently', (b) but destroyed all evidence of them just before war started and, besides, (c) was using methods of research that will be virtually undetectable. Oh, and Al Qaeda were in on it. And Syria too. And North Korea. And Hugo Chavez. Oh, and by the way Miss Reporter, you can't speak to him or quote any facts about the nature of the chemicals he mentions, because someone might try and kill him. A few questions: - Why would a regime who knows that it will be destroyed try and get rid of all its chemical weapons? That's like a condemned man using his last phone call to ask his wife to burn his overdue speeding fines. - Why 'really' couldn't a reporter talk to him? - Who would still have either the power or the desire to assasinate one of hundreds of Iraqi scientists? - Why can't the US military defend such a person? - How likely is it that a random scientist would know the bigger picture about dealings with Syria and Al Qaeda? - Why would Hussein help Al Qaede, one of his sworn enemies till the last? __________________ I've been 4thTimeLucky, you've been great. Goodnight and God bless!

04-25-2003, 12:44 AM	#16 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	all very valid points 4thtimelucky. I also have compelling evidence from a secret "official Iraqi source" that Saddam is responsible for the single largest child pornography ring, Iraq is also responsible for mailing out 4,564,879,456,131 AOL CDs this year to "current resident", and he likes to kick puppies and drown kittens in his spare time. But.....I have no proof because Saddam sprinkled magic fairy dust on all the porn, shipped all the AOL stock out to Syria, yeah that's it, and burned all the millions of dead animal carcasses all without the U.S. the wiser. __________________ No signature. None. Seriously.

04-25-2003, 04:36 AM	#17 (permalink)
Nad Adam Psycho Location: Sweden	Shame on you 4thTimeLucky. Stopping the discussion by exposing the enormous logical gaps. __________________ Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. - Psalms 137:9

04-25-2003, 06:28 AM	#19 (permalink)
Daval Junkie Location: The True North Strong and Free!	this is hillarious __________________ "It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it." Winston Churchill

04-26-2003, 06:15 AM	#20 (permalink)
4thTimeLucky Psycho Location: 4th has left the building - goodbye folks	Damnit, if I want to see a conspiracy theory, then I'll darn well see one. I still think: - Reporters can talk to people without endangering them, especially when her report was vetted by the military. - If the the US can protect the Deputy Prime Minister and publicly report that he wants to spill all the beans in return for an English cottage, then they can do the same for a scientist. - It is over for Saddam. Once the genie has been let out of the bottle and his infrastructure destroyed (as it now is) his power is gone. Very few people have a desire to support him and those that do are fanatically bent on attacking the American troops, not covering up for technical breaches of UN resolutions. - Whilst consceding that scientist know more about WMDs than bus drivers... think about the position of senior engineers in the company you work for. Do they have knowledge of the goings on the boardroom? Having said all that: Credit where credits due. You made me work for my money! __________________ I've been 4thTimeLucky, you've been great. Goodnight and God bless!

04-26-2003, 04:57 PM	#21 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	THere seems to be three other threads with exactly the same topic, but I'll post these images for any that dont make over to those. These images are final proof that Saddam was up to no good. [IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PQDXAn0RIAkPUXTuu7Ep4oua09z!gNUmGXLdvH9rvnfs3Y9tP5MlyyAhHNT0SNW!EU3E8!3hXIpV4Mx270QwSScXiqUapO/DV.gif?dc=4675419028627321851[/IMG] [IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwD0ApUTLZAAxM6EvfZUrTpD9CyWY4Oy6Or0ZmOVKs85Xdxak2JNcgVhNamOW6umVZIifQlV8Q5tTRr3NlDpz8DKbm3GX8tsi1pp29MNU/cpgw_151.jpg?dc=4675419028603085510[/IMG] [IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PQDiAlIRIvCRsjU0oBD8jVPnqV0UxcgW2zKIBj7tndReuNpxbve7Ql4Bv0qKhjeoQPCBcfxG!XGVNgGCfYNM12PkGXQt6o/22.jpg?dc=4675419028601944958[/IMG] [IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RgDXAiEVSPdfTcTsliNU4TdwGyQNxsYqVzB7yV5WxzXMBcFW3pntzj4WYqDh3CKq!7slfHlERW2jOD8dv3ipE!2qGzSDGR6Q8K50pHvbgA/oildrums50_.jpg?dc=4675419029381958740[/IMG] [IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RADiAsUTs5zKdDYxSxACL8a5hfthRXPubvtGsWh1!MstusliEPPFqHbj8TYOD0L2TLPcjxtcTDcr2CNcBTF2gLZugo9JexaXWqrdY14/D_day250_.jpg?dc=4675419028609648856[/IMG] __________________ To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking*

04-26-2003, 05:08 PM	#22 (permalink)
maximusveritas Winner	I wonder how soon it'll be before FoxNews starts showing these images?

04-27-2003, 10:11 AM	#24 (permalink)
George W Bush Tilted Location: The Great Lone Star State	I dont know about that second from the last one though! THe feet look odd. __________________ "Rarely is the question asked: is our children learning" "You teach a child to read and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test."

04-27-2003, 09:37 PM	#25 (permalink)
KillerYoda The Original Emo Gangsta Location: Sixth Floor, Texas School Book Depository	Remember, all though not trying to come off as too paranoid, but our government said in the past that this guy: <img src="http://www.konformist.com/jfkland/oswho.jpg"> was the same as this guy: <img src="http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/oswald4.gif"> You can't believe everything you hear. __________________ "So you're Chekov, huh? Well, this here's McCoy. Find a Spock, we got us an away team."

04-27-2003, 11:36 PM	#26 (permalink)
Dragonlich 42, baby! Location: The Netherlands	What the hell is wrong with some of you? On this forum, people are trying to debate things in a rational manner, and then some trolls come in and post "funny" pictures to mock the other side. Now, I'm all for funny pictures, but not in a mature debate, okay? If your only reaction is to sour the discussion by doing something annoying (in multiple discussions!), perhaps you shouldn't post in these threads, hmm?

04-29-2003, 12:58 PM	#28 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	maybe we'll be digging in the sand for years and years to come __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

04-29-2003, 01:10 PM	#29 (permalink)
BigBlueWrecking Psycho	I am very wary of what all Iraqi scientists say. One of them swore up and down about a lab underneath a hosital that has been searched roughly 40 times by the Us and the UN. Never have we found anything. I am not saying that they don't ahve some chemical weapons, but I think it show our intel is not as good as some believe. Either way, what they find will most likely not be a weapon to the extent that it could seriously hurt the US.

04-29-2003, 01:34 PM	#30 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	Dragonlich everyone has different ways of saying things. This is a gathering of people from all walks of life: Canada, the US, maybe even the Netherlands. I never claim to be right and sometimes will have my own way of putting something across. Sometimes if a see a flame war starting I will put a statement in that hopefully will put things in to perspective, sometimes I’ll fail. One thing I’ve never done is take things to a personal level. In the previous TFP I remember stating how proud I was of Americans constitution you told me to get off my high horse. Other times disagreeing with your stance with reasons why and similar snide remarks were launched by you. I’ve seen stances from all areas of a spectrum yield harsh personal statements. This is one troll who will make every attempt to curb his occasional poor judgment of input if the Oscar the grouches and Archie Bunkers out their will remember no two people think alike. __________________ *To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking*

04-30-2003, 04:53 PM	#31 (permalink)
George W Bush Tilted Location: The Great Lone Star State	Partner, I get mad if I knew which side you were trying to make the point to, I can see how either side would either laugh or get pissed, maybe this is your version of a political cartoon. I dont know, I just take it for what it is. Some people lash out because they're just angry in general. Thats not sayin anything about anyone here though. __________________ "Rarely is the question asked: is our children learning" "You teach a child to read and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test."