For the first time in my life I didnt vote Labour - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Strange Famous · 05-02-2008, 11:25 AM

I realise most people here post about US Politics, but from the UK....

I have flirted with the Socialist Workers party, but never voted for them because it seemed a wasted vote and most of the times I went to meetings most of people there struck me as self obsessed and totally out of touch with the world.

I joined the Labour party when I was 18, unfortunately around the time it abandoned its commitment to genuine socialism.

The last few years have been bad from my point of view, but B Liar was the focus of all the negative attention, the disasterous war in Iraq and Afghanistan, the cash for honours, the murder of an innocent Brazilian electrician by armed thugs from the MET, 30 days detention...

But nothing hit me in the gut like the 10% tax debacle. I do not know anyone, whatever their political position, that could support funding a tax cut for middle income earners by increasing the tax burden of the poorest and most vulnerable people in society.

I work in an office... Im a supervisor and the tax cut was pretty neutral to me, for my bosses it means they take home more money... for the girls in the admin office, the mail room staff, the cleaners - they pay MORE tax now.

It is wrong wrong wrong - this from a socialist prime minister, a "conviction politician" - Gordon Brown has not only failed the country, he has not only shown himself as weak, indecisive, and clumsy: he has portrayed the very people that form the basis of Labour.

I would never vote for the Conservative Party as a matter of principle. I certainly will not vote for the present Labour Party... not until there is a REAL reckoning, not until they REALLY see that what they have done is wrong and rebase the moral position that the party is founded upon.

In the local elections on Thursday I voted Green, and will do so in the General Election. I dont even care if the Tories win my town's seat - Labour are not just getting it wrong, they are cutting themselves off from the people who ARE the Labour party, and they should all be thrown out.

loquitur · 05-02-2008, 02:02 PM

A lot of people in 2000 in the US, including Florida, felt they way you did, and voted for Ralph Nader instead of Al Gore. We know how that turned out.

I'm not trying to tell you your opinions are invalid, only that actions have consequences.

highthief · 05-02-2008, 03:20 PM

Gordon Brown has utterly dropped the ball - the 10% tax, the credit crunch, the loss of confidential taxpayer information.

He's toast.

The Nightfly · 05-02-2008, 05:34 PM

I voted green in the locals, but in the general election I will still vote Labour - because lets face it, we have a two horse race, and I'd rather not see the Conservatives in.

I think this just shows what a utterly dire state UK politics is in. ...and while we're at it: I actually cannot believe that Boris Johnson is London mayor.

The Conservatives didn't win today, Labour just lost really badly.

Strange Famous · 05-02-2008, 11:38 PM

The idea of Boris in any position of power is pretty incredible, and it cant be long before he makes some horrendous gaff - but I think its probably AS concerning the level of votes that the BNP was able to secure in London.

The Nightfly · 05-03-2008, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

The idea of Boris in any position of power is pretty incredible, and it cant be long before he makes some horrendous gaff - but I think its probably AS concerning the level of votes that the BNP was able to secure in London.

The idea of him representing and being the face of one of 5 most important cities in the world is such a shame. I think a lot of people have taken this whole "mate, Boris is a legend! He's well funny" thing way too far. I wouldn't be at all surprised if a lot of his vote came from people who took absolutely 0 interest in politics, but saw him on 'Have I got news for you' and thought he was ironically funny. Ugh, I'm really annoyed about it. I get the feeling it's a bit like the Bush situation: It's not going to be long until he starts making horrendous gaffs and stupid decisions, causing everyone to say "why the hell did we vote for him?" while the rest of us slap out foreheads and say "told you so".

I wonder what effect BNP candidate will have on his area. Bad times.

MSD · 05-03-2008, 10:23 AM

This is pretty much how it feels in the US. Sure, minor parties might win a seat here and there in local elections, but the national election sucks and leaves you with no real choice.

I also know how you feel with the disgust at "your" party's behavior. I was too young to vote in 2000, but I would have voted for Nader if I could have. Over the next few years I realized that their platform was unrealistic and short-sighted, and registered as a Democrat. Disillusioned by the disgraceful conduct of the Dems in the 2004 election cycle, I voted Libertarian and dropped my party affiliation. In 2006, a fresh face appeared in local politics and ran against a 22-year incumbent congressman. Inspired by the fact that someone could be so in-touch with my generation and have such a fresh outlook on politics, I registered as a Libertarian. Now, I see "my" party composed of right-wing ideologues and candidates who, for the most part, run on platforms that are xenophobic or outright racist, or who are all complaints and no solutions.

Once again, I'll be voting for someone I don't fully support but who is better than anyone else. I know how you feel.

girldetective · 05-04-2008, 07:48 AM

>>For the first time in my life I didnt vote Labour<<

. . . and looked what happened.

its troublesome all the way around isnt it?

besitos.

Strange Famous · 05-05-2008, 01:11 PM

Boris strikes me as a really good guy to have a drink with... not a good guy to be in charge of anything, let alone the greatest Western capital.

I think the fact that even till the end people werent sure how it was going to go despite a huge swing against Labour is a testament to the fact that people admire Ken and his style.

__

But anyway, I have always voted Labour all my life - despite however left wing I might be in theory, when it comes to the crunch I will vote Labour because it is a two horse race and any vote that isnt for them is going against them, and lesser of two evils, etc....

Right now, I am so angry still about the 10% tax issue - I genuinely am prepared for my vote to count for the Tory's, even if I cant vote for them.

Also - environmental issues are really important, and as protest votes go, I think it is a worthwhile cause to protest.

Willravel · 05-05-2008, 01:33 PM

I respect you for voting for what you believe in instead of voting against what you don't believe in.

Yakk · 05-05-2008, 02:56 PM

5225$ 0$ vs 0$ or no change
7455$ 223$ vs 404$ or -0.5$/day
10000$ 782.9$ vs 913$ or -0.1$/day
15000$ 1882.9$ vs 1913$ or -0.1$/day
20000$ 2982.9$ vs 2913$ or +0.2$/day
25000$ 4082.9$ vs 3913$ or +0.5$/day
30000$ 5182.9$ vs 4913$ or +0.7$/day
35000$ 6282.9$ vs 5913$ or +1.0$/day
39725$ 7322.4$ vs 6858$ or +1.3$/day
41435$ 8006.4$ vs 7200$ or +2.2$/day
Above: no relative change, or +2.2$/day

Other changes:

Quote:

For example, changes to banding for national insurance rates mean that for people with earnings/trading profits above £34,840, national insurance will increase.

...

Assuming a 3% inflation rate and tax bands that move with inflation, about 183$/year of the above reduction in tax for someone earning in the top bracket could be accounted for via tax band movement. If there was an accumulated 20% inflation that hadn't been accounted for in the past, as much as a 1319.74/year drop in the taxes of the "topmost bracket" would be justified as from "tax band creep".

...

I was curious what "the 10% tax" change was about.

highthief · 05-06-2008, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

Boris strikes me as a really good guy to have a drink with...

I think that is the usual criteria for being elected US president - Boris for Prez?

Arc101 · 05-07-2008, 10:25 AM

Labour need a whole new change, can't see Brown leading the next elections. The whole 10% tax thing pissed me off so much.
In the last elections I refused to vote Labour over the war, and now I will not vote for them over the way they treat the lowest paid.
I think Labour are counting on people to vote for them to try to stop the Tories getting in, but that has to end. I will be voting for something I believe in like the Greens even through I know they do not stand a chance.

guyy · 05-07-2008, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief

I think that is the usual criteria for being elected US president - Boris for Prez?

Have a drink with Bush II?

Uh, no thanks. He also claims not to drink. And what if Cheney came along? No fucking way!

Have a drink with Bill?

This could be entertaining even if you didn't like him as el Presidente.

Have a drink with Bush I?

It might be amusing to see him vomit and collapse in someone's lap like he did on his trip to Japan. On the other hand, he seems kind of stiff AND whacked-out in that Skull-n-bones/Yalie/CIA kind of way all at the same time. So, no thanks.

Have a drink with Reagan?

It would be past his bed time.

Have a drink with Carter?

Or i could just a pick a clergyman's name out of the local church listings and go out and have a rockin' good time.

Right. Next?

Have a drink with Furd?

ZZZzzzzzzz.

Nixon?

It might be amusing to watch his drink-fed paranoia from a distance, but i wouldn't want to be actually at the bar with him.

Johnson?

Could be entertaining. He probably knew some really good watering holes.

Kennedy?

The entourage was more interesting than the man himself, but you might get to experience the entourage.

Marilyn! Jackie was pretty hot, too.

Count me in.

05-02-2008, 11:25 AM	#1 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	For the first time in my life I didnt vote Labour I realise most people here post about US Politics, but from the UK.... I have flirted with the Socialist Workers party, but never voted for them because it seemed a wasted vote and most of the times I went to meetings most of people there struck me as self obsessed and totally out of touch with the world. I joined the Labour party when I was 18, unfortunately around the time it abandoned its commitment to genuine socialism. The last few years have been bad from my point of view, but B Liar was the focus of all the negative attention, the disasterous war in Iraq and Afghanistan, the cash for honours, the murder of an innocent Brazilian electrician by armed thugs from the MET, 30 days detention... But nothing hit me in the gut like the 10% tax debacle. I do not know anyone, whatever their political position, that could support funding a tax cut for middle income earners by increasing the tax burden of the poorest and most vulnerable people in society. I work in an office... Im a supervisor and the tax cut was pretty neutral to me, for my bosses it means they take home more money... for the girls in the admin office, the mail room staff, the cleaners - they pay MORE tax now. It is wrong wrong wrong - this from a socialist prime minister, a "conviction politician" - Gordon Brown has not only failed the country, he has not only shown himself as weak, indecisive, and clumsy: he has portrayed the very people that form the basis of Labour. I would never vote for the Conservative Party as a matter of principle. I certainly will not vote for the present Labour Party... not until there is a REAL reckoning, not until they REALLY see that what they have done is wrong and rebase the moral position that the party is founded upon. In the local elections on Thursday I voted Green, and will do so in the General Election. I dont even care if the Tories win my town's seat - Labour are not just getting it wrong, they are cutting themselves off from the people who ARE the Labour party, and they should all be thrown out. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

05-02-2008, 03:20 PM	#3 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	Gordon Brown has utterly dropped the ball - the 10% tax, the credit crunch, the loss of confidential taxpayer information. He's toast. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

05-02-2008, 11:38 PM	#5 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	The idea of Boris in any position of power is pretty incredible, and it cant be long before he makes some horrendous gaff - but I think its probably AS concerning the level of votes that the BNP was able to secure in London. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

05-04-2008, 07:48 AM	#8 (permalink)
girldetective sufferable	>>For the first time in my life I didnt vote Labour<< . . . and looked what happened. its troublesome all the way around isnt it? besitos. __________________ As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata Last edited by girldetective; 05-05-2008 at 01:13 PM..

05-05-2008, 01:11 PM	#9 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	Boris strikes me as a really good guy to have a drink with... not a good guy to be in charge of anything, let alone the greatest Western capital. I think the fact that even till the end people werent sure how it was going to go despite a huge swing against Labour is a testament to the fact that people admire Ken and his style. __ But anyway, I have always voted Labour all my life - despite however left wing I might be in theory, when it comes to the crunch I will vote Labour because it is a two horse race and any vote that isnt for them is going against them, and lesser of two evils, etc.... Right now, I am so angry still about the 10% tax issue - I genuinely am prepared for my vote to count for the Tory's, even if I cant vote for them. Also - environmental issues are really important, and as protest votes go, I think it is a worthwhile cause to protest. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

05-02-2008, 02:02 PM	#2 (permalink)
loquitur Junkie Location: NYC	A lot of people in 2000 in the US, including Florida, felt they way you did, and voted for Ralph Nader instead of Al Gore. We know how that turned out. I'm not trying to tell you your opinions are invalid, only that actions have consequences.

05-02-2008, 05:34 PM	#4 (permalink)
The Nightfly Upright Location: Brighton, UK	I voted green in the locals, but in the general election I will still vote Labour - because lets face it, we have a two horse race, and I'd rather not see the Conservatives in. I think this just shows what a utterly dire state UK politics is in. ...and while we're at it: I actually cannot believe that Boris Johnson is London mayor. The Conservatives didn't win today, Labour just lost really badly.

05-03-2008, 10:23 AM	#7 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	This is pretty much how it feels in the US. Sure, minor parties might win a seat here and there in local elections, but the national election sucks and leaves you with no real choice. I also know how you feel with the disgust at "your" party's behavior. I was too young to vote in 2000, but I would have voted for Nader if I could have. Over the next few years I realized that their platform was unrealistic and short-sighted, and registered as a Democrat. Disillusioned by the disgraceful conduct of the Dems in the 2004 election cycle, I voted Libertarian and dropped my party affiliation. In 2006, a fresh face appeared in local politics and ran against a 22-year incumbent congressman. Inspired by the fact that someone could be so in-touch with my generation and have such a fresh outlook on politics, I registered as a Libertarian. Now, I see "my" party composed of right-wing ideologues and candidates who, for the most part, run on platforms that are xenophobic or outright racist, or who are all complaints and no solutions. Once again, I'll be voting for someone I don't fully support but who is better than anyone else. I know how you feel.

05-05-2008, 01:33 PM	#10 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	I respect you for voting for what you believe in instead of voting against what you don't believe in.

05-07-2008, 10:25 AM	#13 (permalink)
Arc101 Addict Location: Nottingham, England	Labour need a whole new change, can't see Brown leading the next elections. The whole 10% tax thing pissed me off so much. In the last elections I refused to vote Labour over the war, and now I will not vote for them over the way they treat the lowest paid. I think Labour are counting on people to vote for them to try to stop the Tories getting in, but that has to end. I will be voting for something I believe in like the Greens even through I know they do not stand a chance.