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View Poll Results: Do you believe police, prosecutorial, judicial misconduct is a serious US problem? | |||
No | 1 | 5.88% | |
Yes | 16 | 94.12% | |
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll |
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12-28-2007, 06:38 AM | #1 (permalink) | |||
Banned
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Police & Prosecutorial Misconduct: Do You Have a Personal Tolerance Limit?
No long post from me, this time. Some of the posts in Herk's <a href="http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=129443">Police - An Evening in America</a> thread, spurred me to wondering if for most of you, there could come a point where, "enough is enough", as far as your personal support for law enforcement and prosecutors. That is...a point where you took in enough about their betrayal of the public trust, where you withdrew giving them "the benefit of the doubt".
A sign of this change of opinion could be your support for the death penalty. You believe the death penalty is warranted as an appropriate punishment for some crimes, but, because of police misconduct and prosecutorial abuse, you no longer can cede authority to these institutions to reliably determine the guilty, or to conduct fair trials in all cases. I recently viewed a screening of the film "American Gangster". I exited the theater wondering, for the first time, if law enforcement and the judicial system detracts more form American society, than it adds. That thought surprised me, because I had never contemplated that question before. As Americans, we have viewed police and other institutional corruption as a pervasive problem, only in "other countries". We read reports of the ineffectiveness of Iraqi police departments that American civialian and military authority "reconstituted" and retrained after the 2003 invasion of Iraq, due to rampant corruption and secular bias. We are led to believe that this is an "Iraqi problem", that it stems from "their way of doing things". Is that an accurate assessment? I look at how our own federal DOJ has been compromised recently. It conducts selective, partisan prosecutionsand it withholds prosecutions based on political bias. It refuses to cooperate with congressional oversight. One of the first "experts" sent to Iraq to set up and train new, US influenced Iraqi police was former NYPD commissioner, Bernard Kerik. When Kerik returned to the US, a short time later, the president of the United States announced Kerik's appointment as "head" of the new, and very important, Department of Homeland Secuirty. Kerik's appointment was almost immediately withdrawn by the president....because his background had not been checked before he was offered the job! Last month, Kerik was indicted on serious, mulitiple federal felony charges of bribe taking while he was NYPD commissioner, and on evasion of income tax on "income" from the bribes he accepted. I'm going to offer a couple of examples here, and later in the thread to help with consideration of the questions, is their a point where you would withdraw your support for police and other legal institutions, what would have to happen for you to do that? Are you nearing that point, how do you know? I used to work in the town in NY state where the local police were accused of abuses described at these two links: http://archive.recordonline.com/arch...01/19/nhag.htm http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=1&gl=us The local state police barracks also experienced the compromising of the integrity of one of it's investigations unit detectives, as I described, and at the neighboring barracks, a ten years long pattern of planting false evidence was proven in court and it involved all of the investigators in the unit at that barracks: <a href="http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpost.php?p=2369922&postcount=5">Scars in a Proud Police Force, Troopers come to Terms - With Evidence Tampering Scandal</a> With scandals of a pattern of abuse rocking both police departments during the same period of time, in the town where I worked in NY state,would it have been appropriate to withdraw my personal support of the police there? Is it appropriate to withdraw the "benefit of the doubt" regarding your opinion of the FBI, because of this example? Quote:
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...=129399&page=2 Quote:
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Would your withdrawal reasonably begin with changing your mind about official administration of the death penalty, because, if official misconduct or lack of uniformity of fair trials is later proven, the target of capital punishment cannot seek or receive "relief" form the effect of false or flawed justice? I suspect that the folks most resistant to reacting to the corruption I've described as a "crisis of confidence" in these institutions, are likely to be the "holdouts" for giving continued authority to these same institutions to administer the death penalty. They require so little of authority in exchange for granting it "so much", because their "granting" is not linked to conduct, reliability, or accountability. It is part of a "world view" that defies compartmentalization. It's a "law and order" philosophy with no perceived need for "watching the watchers". Those who "mete out" justice were granted authority, a "long time ago", and it is irrevocable, so let them carry on...to question their motives or conduct undermines their "mission". Have enough signs of corruption and misconduct occurred for this to be a relevant topic? If so, what would "reform" look like, in your opinion? In the US, we imprison more residents, per capita, than in any other country in the world. Does it follow, then, that we should maintain a law enforcement and judicial system with unmatched integrity, and commitment to the law? Do you think that we do, or that we even are trying to, or that citizens even demand it? Last edited by host; 12-28-2007 at 07:05 AM.. |
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12-28-2007, 08:31 AM | #2 (permalink) | |
Location: Washington DC
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We have a legal process in place that allows the Civil Rights Division of the Dept of Justice to investigate and prosecute actions by state and local police that violate a citizens civil rights.
Unfortunately, Bush has kept his 2000 campaign promise to limit DoJ's investigations of such practices: Quote:
How about letting the DoJ Civil Rights Division do its job?
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire |
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12-28-2007, 08:35 AM | #3 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: NYC
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Look, cops lie. I have seen it over and over again. I'm not a criminal defense lawyer, but even from my bit of remove from the criminal justice system, I have seen cops lie. They claim to be doing it for a good reason, but there's just no excuse for it. They also know, because they also have to testify all the time, that it's really really <i><b>really</i></b> rare that they get caught and punished for it. That's why they do it.
There was a case very recently, I forget where, that involved a cop testifying he had never interviewed the 17-y.o. defendant before his parents arrived. Turns out that the kid turned on the "record" function on his PDA when the cop was interrogating him, and it picked up the cop's voice, and (I think) the time stamp. The cop was cross-examined at the trial and now his career is pretty much destroyed. The kid got jail time. But I think this is a GOOD thing - the cops should know that "big brother" is watching <i><b>them</i></b>, too. (Does anyone recall seeing the news stories about this?) This comes back to my larger point that I tend to make a lot: accountability is critical. Everyone in a position of responsibility or power should feel that they are being scrutinized -- and that goes from the lowliest clerk who has the power to deep-six your application all the way up to the President (who <i><b>is</i></b> scrutinized). And let me just point out, this is a systemic issue that has existed for decades. It has next to nothing to do with Bush. Last edited by loquitur; 12-28-2007 at 08:37 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
12-28-2007, 08:45 AM | #4 (permalink) |
Location: Washington DC
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Of course its gone on for decades. That is why Congress, in the early 90s, saw a need to expand the oversight responsibilities of the DoJ to investigate civil rights violations by police rather than rely solely on the long-standing practice of leaving such investigations to the internal affairs division of the police department in question.
The majority of career attorneys in the Civil Rights Division of the DoJ would disagree with you and that the change in direction and emphasis of the Division mandated by Bush, through his AGs, have weakened its capacity to perform its lawful functions of protecting civil rights. loquitor.....Do you think the federal government should have a role in investigating police misconduct, particularly if there is a pattern existing over time within a department? Evidently, the Bush DoJ does not. I believe police and prosecutorial misconduct is a serious problem..and part of the solution is to let the DoJ do its job in a non-politicized manner.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 12-28-2007 at 09:09 AM.. |
12-28-2007, 09:35 AM | #5 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: NYC
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Dc_dux, the feds have an interest only if there is a basis for it in the constitution. I can assure you that state laws in every state prohibit the sort of misconduct we are talking about, so it's not an issue of prohibition, it's an issue of will to enforce -- and in a democracy, the remedy for that is to vote the scoundrels out of office. The feds should step in if: (1) there is a governing federal law, such as the civil rights act, a federal constitutional violation, or other similar basis for the federal government to assert jurisdiction; <i><b>and</i></b> (2) the misconduct can't be fixed at the state level (remember, states control localities, which is why, for instance, a state can take over a failed school district or city government).
Simple "police misconduct" by itself is not a federal issue, even if there is a pattern. Look, I live in the possibly the worst governed state in the country, with the possible exception of Louisiana. New York State's government is totally, utterly, completely dysfunctional. Yet I stay here; I swallow hard and keep slogging. Why? Because I made a choice, a conscious one. I don't expect the feds to rescue me. I voted for Eliot Spitzer for governor because he made the right noises about Albany needing to be cleaned up. He turned out to be more of the same old bullshit. Why should the feds rescue me? My fellow citizens keep voting in the same crowd of corrupt trough-feeders, and we have to live with the consequences of our folly. If we got unhappy enough we could leave and go to some state with a better government. |
12-28-2007, 09:43 AM | #6 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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The solution no longer lies with giving more power to the government to investigate, but removing that power from them and placing it back in to the peoples hands. Civilian oversight committees MUST have unfettered access as well as forcing police chiefs, mayors, and city councils to lend near total weight to the oversight commission decisions. We should no longer tolerate the abuse of authority and the coverups payed off with taxpayer money.
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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12-28-2007, 09:45 AM | #7 (permalink) | ||
Banned
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dc_dux, I was unaware of Bush's pre-election commitment to removal of police accountability and a key impartial "check and balance" of the DOJ Civil Rights enforcement oversight. I don't know which is worse, the transparent pandering for votes by Bush, the racist implications of removing a protection that was an anti-racism reform at DOJ, or the hubris displayed by a Texas governor, a state with the highest per capita imprisonment and execution rate in the country, and with a poor reputation for civil rights and for protection of the accused:
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...80&postcount=6 and here: (Note that it took the FBI and the news media to bring this problem to public attention and possible remediation and accountability.) Quote:
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It seems this is a subject that the news media avoids much discsussion of. It is ironic that unrelated incidences of criminal activity attributed to members of a common race, for example, are lumped together, labeled as "black crime", and packaged for presentation and discussion as "one big problem", whereas police and judicial criminal acts are not "lumped" and even packaged for discussion on the actual scale and dimension that they portend as a threat to society. |
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12-28-2007, 09:57 AM | #8 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: NYC
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thanks, Host. That's the incident I was thinking of. The cop in that case didn't have to lie and dind't have to interrogate the kid before his parents came. The kid was a lowlife and was going to get nailed anyway. But it's good that the cop got nailed. They <i><b>should</i></b> live in fear that abuses of power will be found and exposed. Cops have a lot of power and not a lot of money or prestige, so the temptations for self-gratification by misusing the power are pretty strong. It's the old quandary about who watches the watchmen.
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12-28-2007, 10:26 AM | #9 (permalink) | ||
Banned
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My little upstate county, population, 300,000 had just 16 ADA's, yet it experiences the crime described in just one of it's town police depts., at it's local state police barracks, and at the adjacent barracks. The Bronx had a criminal case load, ten years ago, that justified a staff of 400 ADA's. 25 times the size of the prosecutorial staff in my county. We know that the NYPD commissioner, Kerik was probably corrupt, and one of his asst commissioners, as well: Quote:
Note that our "system" of political appointments, our president and the Maryland governor turned over the central domestic enforcement and intelligence agencies in their respective dominions, to criminals Kerik and Norris, however briefly. It is telling that an allegedly "liberal" press does not "package" the individual reports of corruption into a stereotypical problem. Just as the small store owner who could not afford a problem with the local cop on the beat if he wanted to avoid burglary, shoplifiting, and vandalism, no press agency wants to attract animosity from law enforcement, by reporting aggressively or highlighting "the problem" for public discussion, so...we are where we are. We have a growing, under reported official crime "problem", with near universal public denial that it is more than an occasional act of wrongdoing by a "rogue" cop, prosecutor, or "judge on the take"....WE WISH ! Last edited by host; 12-28-2007 at 10:32 AM.. |
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12-28-2007, 10:43 AM | #10 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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i am wondering if folk have a pre-set threshold relative to which they make judgments about this sort of issue or if they realize that they had thresholds once a situation pushes them past it.
i'm not sure that i have a particular co-ordinate system in place--i'm not sure if there is a particular amount of information concerning police misconduct that would push me over a line or not. i understand the police as an extension of state power and that state power is an extension of class power. so there is an extent to which i would see the police as a largely repressive arm to begin with--but even with that said, i am not sure about this question of thresholds, or tipping points.
__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
12-28-2007, 11:40 AM | #11 (permalink) | |
Banned
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Quote:
I am concerned that it's begininings as "a problem" are blurred with racial persecution. Even with that, sometime, probably in the '70's the reaction to "black crime" led to the building of more jail cells and stiffer penalties for drug possession and distribution (ala Rockefeller drug laws). The result was a dramatic growth in the law enforcement, adjudication, and corrections "industries", to the extent that one in six black male adults is in "the system", as an inmate, an accused, on parole, or on probation. The "tipping point" reaction by "society" to "black crime" had an escalating, snowballing effect. The more blacks "put in the system", the more new cells were built, the more additional black males were "put in the system". We know that we are not at a "tipping point" with official corruption, because enforcement....arrests, jailings, are not increasing at a dramatic pace. Signs of increasing concern are the dramatic politicization of the DOJ recently, and the appointments of Kerik and Norris to such high sensitive positions at DHS and in Maryland, followed by their respective indictments. The jail cells in the US are chock full of young black males, though. While there is plenty of intimidation of young black males, police and prosecutors seem to be increasingly elevated to a level of regard, expecially after 9/11, that is reserved in this country for...."the troops". 343 NY City firefighters dies on 9/11, and of the 43 police officers who perished, many were actually non-law enforcement policy emergency service personnel. You've touched on something, roachboy. The entire apparatus of US authority, because of the incessant playing of the 9/11 "fear card", has gotten a "pass" as far as oversight and accountability. "There's no time for that, now....there's a war on, we're fighting to preserve our way of life, because, they hate us for our freedom". It's more like a form of leukemia, I think, than a tumor. It's slower to act, but it reaches every area, and still wrecks the health of the patient. The tipping point for the public, though, is reached by what the immediacy of what it thinks it is most aggravated by...be it the young black male, or the cop on the beat. |
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12-28-2007, 12:43 PM | #12 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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this presupposes total political incoherence on the part of the public, though: a purely reactive posture driven to action, such as it is, by the accumulation of a particular type of stimulation. it presupposes the absence of any co-ordinating mechanisms in how people think about politics---dimension is separated from dimension, linkages disappear with the result that each situation isolated--and so what counts as cumulative data, the sort of thing that would push someone to the point of thinking systematically or acting politically would rely on the operation of a kind of abstract family resemblance between isolated situations...it makes sense to argue, but is really depressing if you think about it----the fragmentary characteristics of information streams are internalized (for example) and their consequences acted out.
if that's true concerning the outline of political thinking that is being imputed to some public here, then maybe in such a context there is no tipping point at the collective level--the best one can hope for is something like peter finch's outburst in "network"--yelling out the window, trying to get others to yell out the window as well. if lots of people yell out their respective windows, then it is a political action. but that's also all a political action can be: yelling out your living room window into the street that you're snippy as hell and aren't going to take it any more. meanwhile time passes, the yelling dissolves and everything continues as it had been.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
12-28-2007, 02:09 PM | #13 (permalink) |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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Police corruption has been a problem since the first guy with a club was given some sort of guard duty.
While over all I think the problem is relatively small in the grand scheme of things in the US, the corruption in the system has never been unknown in the US by anyone who has paid attention. In my city of Chicago alone police were notoriously corrupt in the days of prohibition, it was an open secret that you could bribe your way out of minor offenses in Chicago until the Greylord investigations, and recently police offers have been video taped in two beatings of citizens, one was a particularly heinous assault on a female bartender. When my uncle was a police offer for Lombard Il in the early 80's the police chief was paid off by the mob, who kept the police from a few establishments with illegal gambling. Worse corruption has been in other suburbs including murder. Likewise other cities have their own stories, some even worse (such as New Orleans). The real question is 'so what?' As long as a system has people with power, there will be occasional abuses. This of course has nothing to do with 9/11, in fact everything I talked about in Chicago was prior to 9/11 except for the beatings, so I won't go down hosts magic rabbit hole there. What it does require is a way to guard the guards, and in that we have made great strides, but perhaps not fast enough. Most of the abuses of power that get proper attention are those caught on video tape. Its one thing to claim abuse, its another to show it. We currently have the technology to pretty much wire every police officer for full sound and video along with a GPS. Every interaction they have, at least in an official capacity could be recorded and retrieved should a complaint arise. Now there are some pitfalls to this. It would force police to always enforce the law to the letter, no more warnings, no more 'keep your nose clean kid'. It would also put more stress on the officers, imagine if everything you did for the day was recorded in full detail (minus your bathroom breaks). No place to take a personal call, no relaxing a moment on tfp, the little things to keep you sane at work. Still, it would perhaps be worth it. Edit: I voted no for the poll, I think its a problem, one worth fixing, but its less 'serious' then many problems the country faces.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. Last edited by Ustwo; 12-28-2007 at 02:11 PM.. |
12-28-2007, 02:28 PM | #14 (permalink) | ||
Banned
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I suspect that the crimes of these official institutions are doing even more damage to society as a whole, today, than "black crime" could ever do. Much of the crime is official indifference to actually proving who is guilty, while protecting the innocent accused. What is the cost and impact of a system that turns a blind eye towards official corruption even as it is busily framing actually innocent defendants, or failing to disclose to defendants, exculpatory evidence obtained by prosecutorial investigators and police? I think part of the problem is that police and prosecutors, just by indifference or lax attitude about their sworn duties and responsibilities, become accustomed to committing relatively minor crimes of omission or selectivity. "I know this guy is as guilty as sin, so I'm going to overlook the exculpatory evidence in the case....I'm not going to tell the defense attorney about it. They start to play judge and jury, instead of letting the evidence lead in whatever direction it should properly go. Ustwo, it helps my conviction that we are in a corruption crisis, now that you have weighed in with your take that there is only a "small" problem. Your advocacy for the death penalty remaind unshaken, I presume? Last edited by host; 12-28-2007 at 02:33 PM.. |
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12-28-2007, 03:33 PM | #15 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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host if this is a crisis it has been a crisis since the country was founded. I think its less of a crisis now than it has been in the past as now abuses can be publicized in ways that were not possible 30+ years ago. I have to wonder what sort of sheltered life you have led that it took a recent movie to see this 'problem' for the first time.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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12-28-2007, 03:39 PM | #16 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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if you take this trend in isolation, ustwo's response is perfectly reasonable.
if you don't take it in isolation, then you have to show why you shouldn't. i'm not sure that the bush regime, no matter what it has been up to, is adequate as a linking device. that there is arguably extensive corruption at many levels within the american order is a systemic matter---that this corruption operates without oversight is a function of institution design---and could be interpreted as a prerogative of power as we currently endure/understand it. that this is not acceptable is a political question and in the present state of affairs the options are basically either mobilize within the system to effect changes in design/orientation/policy--but you disappear outside it---or mobilize pressure that can be brought to bear from outside the system via protests of various kinds--in which case you may remain visible to the outside, but probably will be invisible inside the system you are trying to change. another option is ideology critique. this simply requires writing and putting stuff out into the world. it might not do anything. but the outline of a critique is pretty straightforward: in a social-democratic model, all this constitutes both political pressure and feedback loops which are brought to bear on the state. in the neoliberal model, the state is not directly political in the same way, relegated to a narrow sphere of activity, most of which are categorized as introducing distortions in flows that otherwise are self-regulating. it's primary function in neoliberal land is repression, its instruments the military and the police. in a social-democratic model, one of the central functions of the state is to address the social consequences of capitalist activity, to ameliorate them in the interest of over-all system stability. in the neoliberal model, these consequences are absorbed into a claim that social hierarchies are natural that the consequences of capitalist activity should be evaluated on utilitarian grounds and that the socio-economic elite gets to control what the utilitarian grounds look like. so the space for political action is almost erased. so you could argue that a social-democratic regime is MORE democratic and that in a MORE robust manner than neoliberal-type societies--this DESPITE the wider role played by the state in the former--because the space of politics is held open, is understood expansively. neoliberalism reduces the space of political action, defines individuals as powerless and uninformed by virtue of the erasure of the space for political action--so the neoliberal state cuts itself off from basic feedback loops (like it or not, a political action is both what it says it is and an index of a problem or gap within the existing state of affairs and so can always be interpreted in at least two ways) neoliberalism is an ideology of cut and run, so this is no surprise. one thing is clear--bureaucratic institutions require feedback loops to be coherent. and you could say that neoliberal suspicion of politics amounts to an erasure of those feedback loops. from this it would follow that the past 30 years of american ideological history have been one long, sustained and disastrous experiment with a particularly dysfunctional capitalist ideology. so this connects the present sorry state of affairs in the states back to the thatcher-reagan period, which saw the rise of a kind of idiot triumphalist take on the end of the cold war and a fundamental crisis of the whole of the political left at more or less the same time. since conservatives never figured out the functional aspects of having a left around, and saw in the left only an Enemy, it kinda follows that you'd find the triumphalist reading of the period blah blah blah. from this viewpoint, thatchers assaults on the uk coal miners is only an idex, but an important one. so i think in general that the lack of response to mounting evidence of corruption, starting with the bush people and heading downward to the most local levels is a function not of the situations themselves but of the ideological context in which we sadly find ourselves. it seems to me that even folk who would reject neoliberal positions find themselves performing the restricted understanding of politics, its space and its meaning that accompanies neoliberalism. i tend to see this erasure of the political as a nihilist action on the part of the right, frankly--even their boy hayek argued that monopolies do not and cannot know what is happening internally, that they rely on feedback loops---and this was in the end the main motivation behind arguments for free markets--in "perfect competition" price and its history would be that feedback loop. but perfect competition is an illusion--so its correlate lay in the widest possible purview for political action, and a faith in the democratic polity. in neoliberal-land, you do not have a democratic polity--you have shoppers. you do not have political feedback loops becaue people seem to have been convinced that there's no point. of course, such a system---what we have==gives the lie to basic terms like democracy and freedom--but no matter: the right seems all abotu short-term thinking and when pushed you'll find out that the end times are upon us so that's fine. they'll reap what they've sown. i was making this up as i go, so it is what it is: not anything terribly worked out, more just thinking through problems. normally, i wouldn't set up socal democracy as an alternative, but i thought it useful to stay within the frame of capitalist-specific options.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 12-28-2007 at 03:43 PM.. |
12-28-2007, 05:55 PM | #17 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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12-28-2007, 06:07 PM | #19 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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Quote:
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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12-28-2007, 06:13 PM | #20 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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it's pretty big, but i dont know the numbers, and i'm not sure if they do either simply because it's a free weekly......its not obvious how folk read it, whether they look at the articles--which are often quite good--or if they just use it for the listings of things happening about town. what's pretty clear is that it doesnt go for the same demographic as does the sun.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
12-28-2007, 06:45 PM | #21 (permalink) | |||
Banned
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A leading candidate for the 2008 republican presidential nomination, and the president of the United States, both "fell" for this uneducated, underqualified, criminal bullshitter's "line": Quote:
Or, show us a time since the Civil Rights Act was passed in 1964, when the DOJ was as lacking in integrity and in it's commitment to impartially prosecute criminals and to enforce the provisions of the Civil Rights and the Voting Rights Acts. ...and I take it that you see no problem here worth your time or concern: Quote:
Last edited by host; 12-28-2007 at 07:06 PM.. |
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12-28-2007, 06:49 PM | #22 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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Quote:
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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12-30-2007, 07:43 AM | #23 (permalink) | |
Banned
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This is long, I recommend reading all of it:
<a href="http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/12/30/oligarchy/index.html">Oligarchical Decay</a> Some highlights: Quote:
Charlatan, are columns like the one above, or threads like this one, tolerated by authority, where you are, or is it rare that anyone would attempt to probe their "limits", by writing and posting? Last edited by host; 12-30-2007 at 08:11 AM.. |
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12-31-2007, 12:20 AM | #24 (permalink) |
Getting it.
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
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There is not a free press in this city state. The media is all owned by the government and only pays lip service to the concept of a free press.
Any criticism of the government, if it exists, is to be found online. There are some very strong blogs with loud voices. That said, they are not immune from persecution.
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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke |
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limit, misconduct, personal, police, prosecutorial, tolerance |
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