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View Poll Results: Do you believe police, prosecutorial, judicial misconduct is a serious US problem?
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Old 12-28-2007, 06:38 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Police & Prosecutorial Misconduct: Do You Have a Personal Tolerance Limit?

No long post from me, this time. Some of the posts in Herk's <a href="http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=129443">Police - An Evening in America</a> thread, spurred me to wondering if for most of you, there could come a point where, "enough is enough", as far as your personal support for law enforcement and prosecutors. That is...a point where you took in enough about their betrayal of the public trust, where you withdrew giving them "the benefit of the doubt".

A sign of this change of opinion could be your support for the death penalty. You believe the death penalty is warranted as an appropriate punishment for some crimes, but, because of police misconduct and prosecutorial abuse, you no longer can cede authority to these institutions to reliably determine the guilty, or to conduct fair trials in all cases.

I recently viewed a screening of the film "American Gangster". I exited the theater wondering, for the first time, if law enforcement and the judicial system detracts more form American society, than it adds. That thought surprised me, because I had never contemplated that question before.

As Americans, we have viewed police and other institutional corruption as a pervasive problem, only in "other countries". We read reports of the ineffectiveness of Iraqi police departments that American civialian and military authority "reconstituted" and retrained after the 2003 invasion of Iraq, due to rampant corruption and secular bias. We are led to believe that this is an "Iraqi problem", that it stems from "their way of doing things".

Is that an accurate assessment? I look at how our own federal DOJ has been compromised recently. It conducts selective, partisan prosecutionsand it withholds prosecutions based on political bias. It refuses to cooperate with congressional oversight. One of the first "experts" sent to Iraq to set up and train new, US influenced Iraqi police was former NYPD commissioner, Bernard Kerik. When Kerik returned to the US, a short time later, the president of the United States announced Kerik's appointment as "head" of the new, and very important, Department of Homeland Secuirty. Kerik's appointment was almost immediately withdrawn by the president....because his background had not been checked before he was offered the job!

Last month, Kerik was indicted on serious, mulitiple federal felony charges of bribe taking while he was NYPD commissioner, and on evasion of income tax on "income" from the bribes he accepted.

I'm going to offer a couple of examples here, and later in the thread to help with consideration of the questions, is their a point where you would withdraw your support for police and other legal institutions, what would have to happen for you to do that? Are you nearing that point, how do you know?

I used to work in the town in NY state where the local police were accused of abuses described at these two links:
http://archive.recordonline.com/arch...01/19/nhag.htm
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=1&gl=us

The local state police barracks also experienced the compromising of the integrity of one of it's investigations unit detectives, as I described, and at the neighboring barracks, a ten years long pattern of planting false evidence was proven in court and it involved all of the investigators in the unit at that barracks:
<a href="http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpost.php?p=2369922&postcount=5">Scars in a Proud Police Force, Troopers come to Terms - With Evidence Tampering Scandal</a>

With scandals of a pattern of abuse rocking both police departments during the same period of time, in the town where I worked in NY state,would it have been appropriate to withdraw my personal support of the police there?

Is it appropriate to withdraw the "benefit of the doubt" regarding your opinion of the FBI, because of this example?
Quote:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...701681_pf.html
FBI's Forensic Test Full of Holes
Lee Wayne Hunt is one of hundreds of defendants whose convictions are in question now that FBI forensic evidence has been discredited.

By John Solomon
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, November 18, 2007; A01

Hundreds of defendants sitting in prisons nationwide have been convicted with the help of an FBI forensic tool that was discarded more than two years ago. But the FBI lab has yet to take steps to alert the affected defendants or courts, even as the window for appealing convictions is closing, a joint investigation by The Washington Post and "60 Minutes" has found.

The science, known as comparative bullet-lead analysis, was first used after President John F. Kennedy's assassination in 1963. The technique used chemistry to link crime-scene bullets to ones possessed by suspects on the theory that each batch of lead had a unique elemental makeup.

In 2004, however, the nation's most prestigious scientific body concluded that variations in the manufacturing process rendered the FBI's testimony about the science "unreliable and potentially misleading." Specifically, the National Academy of Sciences said that decades of FBI statements to jurors linking a particular bullet to those found in a suspect's gun or cartridge box were so overstated that such testimony should be considered "misleading under federal rules of evidence."

A year later, the bureau abandoned the analysis.

But the FBI lab has never gone back to determine how many times its scientists misled jurors. Internal memos show that the bureau's managers were aware by 2004 that testimony had been overstated in a large number of trials. In a smaller number of cases, the experts had made false matches based on a faulty statistical analysis of the elements contained in different lead samples, documents show.

"We cannot afford to be misleading to a jury," the lab director wrote to FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III in late summer 2005 in a memo outlining why the bureau was abandoning the science. "We plan to discourage prosecutors from using our previous results in future prosecutions."

Despite those private concerns, the bureau told defense lawyers in a general letter dated Sept. 1, 2005, that although it was ending the technique, it "still firmly supports the scientific foundation of bullet lead analysis." And in at least two cases, the bureau has tried to help state prosecutors defend past convictions by using court filings that experts say are still misleading. The government has fought releasing the list of the estimated 2,500 cases over three decades in which it performed the analysis.

For the majority of affected prisoners, the typical two-to-four-year window to appeal their convictions based on new scientific evidence is closing.

Dwight E. Adams, the now-retired FBI lab director who ended the technique, said the government has an obligation to release all the case files, to independently review the expert testimony and to alert courts to any errors that could have affected a conviction.....
In post #43 here:
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...=129399&page=2
Quote:
Originally Posted by roachboy
......but you know, you assemble a sense of that abstraction from wandering around in public spaces and just taking in what people say---and it's pretty grim for the most part--but even so, there's generally enough noise about that one can maintain one's spirits and not simply get trashed because there seems no alternative.

and then an article like the salon piece host bit from above comes along and makes you wonder what you do this for.
so you have problems with the article.
maybe the same thing obtains for me: i dont want to see what this america place has become, is becoming, and it's polyanna of me to imagine that people hold the idiocy--and i mean that---of the ideological bubble apart from themselves----maybe it's the case that many many people simply replicate it, that they see the world in terms shaped by it. that is, they do not see it as stupid or even as a bubble: they see it as given........
roachboy was reacting to this articel:
Quote:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature...ice/index.html

....The spreading insurgency, the surging violence, the descent into chaos -- all have been thoroughly documented by journalists and others, and public support for the war has steadily ebbed as a result.

Yet even amid this information glut, the public remains ill-informed about many key aspects of the war. This is due less to any restrictions imposed by the government, or to any official management of language or image,
<h3>than to controls imposed by the public itself. Americans -- reluctant to confront certain raw realities of the war -- have placed strong filters and screens on the facts and images they receive..... so it sets limits on what it is willing to hear about them.</h3>
The Press -- ever attuned to public sensitivities -- will, on occasion, test those limits, but generally respects them. The result is an unstated, unconscious, but nonetheless potent co-conspiracy between the public and the press to muffle some important truths about the war. In a disturbing twist on the Orwellian nightmare, the American people have become their own thought police, purging the news of unwanted and unwelcome features with an efficiency that government censors and military flacks can only envy.

Sometimes the public defines its limits by expressing outrage. The running of a story that seems too unsettling, or the airing of an image that seems too graphic, can set off a storm of protest -- from Fox News and the Weekly Standard, bloggers and radio talk-show hosts, military families and enraged citizens -- <h3>all denouncing the messenger as unpatriotic, un-American, even treasonous.</h3> In this swirl of menace and hate, even the most determined journalist can feel cowed...
<h3>Is it possible that our collective non-reaction to an increasingly corrupted police and judicial system is "the iceberg" under the "tip" described in the Salon article?</h3>

Would your withdrawal reasonably begin with changing your mind about official administration of the death penalty, because, if official misconduct or lack of uniformity of fair trials is later proven, the target of capital punishment cannot seek or receive "relief" form the effect of false or flawed justice?

I suspect that the folks most resistant to reacting to the corruption I've described as a "crisis of confidence" in these institutions, are likely to be the "holdouts" for giving continued authority to these same institutions to administer the death penalty. They require so little of authority in exchange for granting it "so much", because their "granting" is not linked to conduct, reliability, or accountability. It is part of a "world view" that defies compartmentalization. It's a "law and order" philosophy with no perceived need for "watching the watchers". Those who "mete out" justice were granted authority, a "long time ago", and it is irrevocable, so let them carry on...to question their motives or conduct undermines their "mission".

Have enough signs of corruption and misconduct occurred for this to be a relevant topic? If so, what would "reform" look like, in your opinion?

In the US, we imprison more residents, per capita, than in any other country in the world. Does it follow, then, that we should maintain a law enforcement and judicial system with unmatched integrity, and commitment to the law?

Do you think that we do, or that we even are trying to, or that citizens even demand it?

Last edited by host; 12-28-2007 at 07:05 AM..
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:31 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
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We have a legal process in place that allows the Civil Rights Division of the Dept of Justice to investigate and prosecute actions by state and local police that violate a citizens civil rights.

Unfortunately, Bush has kept his 2000 campaign promise to limit DoJ's investigations of such practices:
Quote:
During the 2000 presidential campaign, Governor Bush promised in a written statement to the National Fraternal Order of Police that:
* "I do not believe the Justice Department should routinely seek to conduct oversight investigations, issue reports or undertake other activity that is designed to function as a review of police operations in states, cities and towns."

* "I also do not believe that the federal government should instruct state and local authorities on how police department operations should be conducted, becoming a separate internal affairs division."

* "There are certain cases where a federal investigation conducted fairly, reasonably, and without bias can assist state and local authorities in resolving issues or allegations of police misconduct. These cases should be the exception, not the rule."
These campaign promises have been fulfilled by the Civil Rights Division.

http://www.cccr.org/justice/issue.cfm?id=15
The Bush approach, in line with conservative thinking, is to keep the federal government out and let a local police department investigate it own patterns and practices of violating citizens rights.

How about letting the DoJ Civil Rights Division do its job?
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:35 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Look, cops lie. I have seen it over and over again. I'm not a criminal defense lawyer, but even from my bit of remove from the criminal justice system, I have seen cops lie. They claim to be doing it for a good reason, but there's just no excuse for it. They also know, because they also have to testify all the time, that it's really really <i><b>really</i></b> rare that they get caught and punished for it. That's why they do it.

There was a case very recently, I forget where, that involved a cop testifying he had never interviewed the 17-y.o. defendant before his parents arrived. Turns out that the kid turned on the "record" function on his PDA when the cop was interrogating him, and it picked up the cop's voice, and (I think) the time stamp. The cop was cross-examined at the trial and now his career is pretty much destroyed. The kid got jail time. But I think this is a GOOD thing - the cops should know that "big brother" is watching <i><b>them</i></b>, too. (Does anyone recall seeing the news stories about this?)

This comes back to my larger point that I tend to make a lot: accountability is critical. Everyone in a position of responsibility or power should feel that they are being scrutinized -- and that goes from the lowliest clerk who has the power to deep-six your application all the way up to the President (who <i><b>is</i></b> scrutinized).

And let me just point out, this is a systemic issue that has existed for decades. It has next to nothing to do with Bush.

Last edited by loquitur; 12-28-2007 at 08:37 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:45 AM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Of course its gone on for decades. That is why Congress, in the early 90s, saw a need to expand the oversight responsibilities of the DoJ to investigate civil rights violations by police rather than rely solely on the long-standing practice of leaving such investigations to the internal affairs division of the police department in question.

The majority of career attorneys in the Civil Rights Division of the DoJ would disagree with you and that the change in direction and emphasis of the Division mandated by Bush, through his AGs, have weakened its capacity to perform its lawful functions of protecting civil rights.

loquitor.....Do you think the federal government should have a role in investigating police misconduct, particularly if there is a pattern existing over time within a department? Evidently, the Bush DoJ does not.

I believe police and prosecutorial misconduct is a serious problem..and part of the solution is to let the DoJ do its job in a non-politicized manner.
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Last edited by dc_dux; 12-28-2007 at 09:09 AM..
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Old 12-28-2007, 09:35 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Dc_dux, the feds have an interest only if there is a basis for it in the constitution. I can assure you that state laws in every state prohibit the sort of misconduct we are talking about, so it's not an issue of prohibition, it's an issue of will to enforce -- and in a democracy, the remedy for that is to vote the scoundrels out of office. The feds should step in if: (1) there is a governing federal law, such as the civil rights act, a federal constitutional violation, or other similar basis for the federal government to assert jurisdiction; <i><b>and</i></b> (2) the misconduct can't be fixed at the state level (remember, states control localities, which is why, for instance, a state can take over a failed school district or city government).

Simple "police misconduct" by itself is not a federal issue, even if there is a pattern.

Look, I live in the possibly the worst governed state in the country, with the possible exception of Louisiana. New York State's government is totally, utterly, completely dysfunctional. Yet I stay here; I swallow hard and keep slogging. Why? Because I made a choice, a conscious one. I don't expect the feds to rescue me. I voted for Eliot Spitzer for governor because he made the right noises about Albany needing to be cleaned up. He turned out to be more of the same old bullshit. Why should the feds rescue me? My fellow citizens keep voting in the same crowd of corrupt trough-feeders, and we have to live with the consequences of our folly. If we got unhappy enough we could leave and go to some state with a better government.
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Old 12-28-2007, 09:43 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_dux
Of course its gone on for decades. That is why Congress, in the early 90s, saw a need to expand the oversight responsibilities of the DoJ to investigate civil rights violations by police rather than rely solely on the long-standing practice of leaving such investigations to the internal affairs division of the police department in question.

The majority of career attorneys in the Civil Rights Division of the DoJ would disagree with you and that the change in direction and emphasis of the Division mandated by Bush, through his AGs, have weakened its capacity to perform its lawful functions of protecting civil rights.

loquitor.....Do you think the federal government should have a role in investigating police misconduct, particularly if there is a pattern existing over time within a department? Evidently, the Bush DoJ does not.

I believe police and prosecutorial misconduct is a serious problem..and part of the solution is to let the DoJ do its job in a non-politicized manner.
If I may answer this, it is absolutely the job of the federal government to not only HAVE a role, but to BE the role in this. The constitution was written giving specific power to the feds to protect the rights of it's citizens, this is also what the 13th and 14th amendments were ratified for. The problem we face is over the last 40 years, we've let the 'thin blue line' cross over into an 'us v. them' line of thinking and we've not done much about it.

The solution no longer lies with giving more power to the government to investigate, but removing that power from them and placing it back in to the peoples hands. Civilian oversight committees MUST have unfettered access as well as forcing police chiefs, mayors, and city councils to lend near total weight to the oversight commission decisions. We should no longer tolerate the abuse of authority and the coverups payed off with taxpayer money.
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Old 12-28-2007, 09:45 AM   #7 (permalink)
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dc_dux, I was unaware of Bush's pre-election commitment to removal of police accountability and a key impartial "check and balance" of the DOJ Civil Rights enforcement oversight. I don't know which is worse, the transparent pandering for votes by Bush, the racist implications of removing a protection that was an anti-racism reform at DOJ, or the hubris displayed by a Texas governor, a state with the highest per capita imprisonment and execution rate in the country, and with a poor reputation for civil rights and for protection of the accused:
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...80&postcount=6

and here:
(Note that it took the FBI and the news media to bring this problem to public attention and possible remediation and accountability.)
Quote:
http://www.khou.com/crimelab/stories...w.3f93831.html
FBI audit: Problems at HPD crime lab known before it reopened

10:55 PM CST on Wednesday, November 14, 2007

By Jeremy Desel / 11 News

In our ongoing investigation into the Houston Police Department’s crime lab, 11 News has uncovered new evidence showing there were problems at the new crime lab -- before it ever reopened.

Why should you care?

Because a mistake at this lab could send you to jail or it could let a killer walk free.

In the lab, evidence is supposed to be protected.

We have protected the identity of a crime lab analyst currently working in the lab.

That’s because the analyst is afraid to be fired for speaking out and claims that at the Houston Crime Lab, problems are to be protected too.

“They are interested in keeping it quiet. They are not interested in fixing it,” the analyst told 11 News.

There are also allegations of cheating and evidence custody tampering inside the new lab. Questions raised in an official affidavit to internal affairs investigators.

An affidavit obtained by 11 News.

“We do respect that it has in common DNA, but it is a far different situation that what occurred in the past,” said Houston Mayor Bill White said when 11 News questioned him on the latest problems uncovered.

Maybe, but the trouble has been brewing right from the lab’s rebirth in November 2005.

Trouble uncovered in a March 2006 FBI audit of that new HPD Crime Lab....
Here's your article, loquitur:
Quote:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...ERJURY?SITE=AP
Dec 6, 10:46 PM EST

Recording Nets Charges for NY Detective

By TOM HAYS
Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK (AP) -- A teenage suspect who secretly recorded his interrogation on an MP3 player has landed a veteran detective in the middle of perjury charges, authorities said Thursday.

Unaware of the recording, Detective Christopher Perino testified in April that the suspect "wasn't questioned" about a shooting in the Bronx, a criminal complaint said. But then the defense confronted the detective with a transcript it said proved he had spent more than an hour unsuccessfully trying to persuade Erik Crespo to confess - at times with vulgar tactics.

Once the transcript was revealed in court, prosecutors asked for a recess, defense attorney Mark DeMarco said. The detective was pulled from the witness stand and advised to get a lawyer.

Perino, 42, was arraigned Thursday on 12 counts of first-degree perjury and faces as many as seven years on each count, prosecutors said. He was released on $15,000 bail.

His attorney did not immediately respond to a telephone message seeking comment Thursday. A New York Police Department spokesman declined to comment.

The allegations "put the safety of all law-abiding citizens at risk because they undermine the integrity and foundation of the entire criminal justice system," District Attorney Robert Johnson said in a statement.

Perino had arrested Crespo on New Year's Eve 2005 while investigating the shooting of a man in an elevator. While in an interrogation room at a station house, Crespo, then 17, stealthily pressed the record button on the MP3 player, a Christmas gift, DeMarco said.

After Crespo was charged with attempted murder, his family surprised DeMarco by playing him the recording.

"I couldn't believe my ears," said the lawyer, who decided to keep the recording under wraps until he cross-examined Perino at the trial.

Prosecutors then offered Crespo, who had faced as many as 25 years if convicted, seven years if he pleaded guilty to a weapons charge. He accepted.
Too bad that this is a "host" thread, and thus, subject to a "shunning" by a portion of the TFP community. There is much here for everyone to share opinions and anecdotes about.

It seems this is a subject that the news media avoids much discsussion of. It is ironic that unrelated incidences of criminal activity attributed to members of a common race, for example, are lumped together, labeled as "black crime", and packaged for presentation and discussion as "one big problem", whereas police and judicial criminal acts are not "lumped" and even packaged for discussion on the actual scale and dimension that they portend as a threat to society.
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Old 12-28-2007, 09:57 AM   #8 (permalink)
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thanks, Host. That's the incident I was thinking of. The cop in that case didn't have to lie and dind't have to interrogate the kid before his parents came. The kid was a lowlife and was going to get nailed anyway. But it's good that the cop got nailed. They <i><b>should</i></b> live in fear that abuses of power will be found and exposed. Cops have a lot of power and not a lot of money or prestige, so the temptations for self-gratification by misusing the power are pretty strong. It's the old quandary about who watches the watchmen.
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Old 12-28-2007, 10:26 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loquitur
thanks, Host. That's the incident I was thinking of. The cop in that case didn't have to lie and dind't have to interrogate the kid before his parents came. The kid was a lowlife and was going to get nailed anyway. But it's good that the cop got nailed. They <i><b>should</i></b> live in fear that abuses of power will be found and exposed. Cops have a lot of power and not a lot of money or prestige, so the temptations for self-gratification by misusing the power are pretty strong. It's the old quandary about who watches the watchmen.
I testified before a secret grand jury (they're all secret in NY) in Robert Johnson's Bronx courthouse, ten years ago. I was a technical witness asked to assess property damage in a criminal case. The ADA who requested my testimony and questioned me before the grand jury, told me that there were 400 ADA's working under DA Johnson.

My little upstate county, population, 300,000 had just 16 ADA's, yet it experiences the crime described in just one of it's town police depts., at it's local state police barracks, and at the adjacent barracks.

The Bronx had a criminal case load, ten years ago, that justified a staff of 400 ADA's. 25 times the size of the prosecutorial staff in my county. We know that the NYPD commissioner, Kerik was probably corrupt, and one of his asst commissioners, as well:
Quote:
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/075...t,78709,2.html
.......We already know all about Bernie Kerik's highest-form-of-flattery mimicry—his infamous seizure of a Ground Zero apartment, set aside for first responders, for a juggling act of escapades with two, as Rudy would put it, "very special friends." And then there's the saga of Ed Norris, who rose to deputy commissioner for operations at the NYPD in his mid-30s under Giuliani and became Baltimore's police commissioner in 2000.

Norris, who was still at NYPD headquarters when the Judi Nathan adventure began in 1999, pled guilty to federal charges in 2004 that he had used a supplemental police fund in Baltimore as if it were his own ATM, "financing romantic encounters with several different women." The original indictment referred to eight women entertained by the police chief on the public tab, but that was later reduced to six. Prosecutors also claimed that the married Norris used the apartment of his chief of staff for workday liaisons that were called "naps," sometimes occurring several times a day. Within months of taking over as police commissioner, he billed an October 2000 stay with "female number one" at the Best Western Seaport in New York to the fund, according to the indictment. The estimated $20,000 in playtime billings included luxury hotels and gifts from Victoria's Secret, and his final plea included admitting to looting the funds and not paying taxes on the income.

A folk hero in certain quarters of Baltimore, Norris returned to the city after doing six months in federal prison and became the top-rated radio talk-show host there, declaring in one newspaper interview that all some people know about him is his supposed penchant for "gifts for girls all over the United States." A shaved-head look-alike for Kerik, Norris is a regular on the HBO series The Wire, playing a homicide detective often furious with Baltimore's powers that be. He was such a successful police commissioner that Republican governor Robert Ehrlich Jr. made him the head of the Maryland State Police in 2003, just months before his indictment.
I doubt that Kerik and Norris, and now Crespo are even a significant portion of the official corruption, even in the Bronx.

Note that our "system" of political appointments, our president and the Maryland governor turned over the central domestic enforcement and intelligence agencies in their respective dominions, to criminals Kerik and Norris, however briefly.

It is telling that an allegedly "liberal" press does not "package" the individual reports of corruption into a stereotypical problem. Just as the small store owner who could not afford a problem with the local cop on the beat if he wanted to avoid burglary, shoplifiting, and vandalism, no press agency wants to attract animosity from law enforcement, by reporting aggressively or highlighting "the problem" for public discussion, so...we are where we are.

We have a growing, under reported official crime "problem", with near universal public denial that it is more than an occasional act of wrongdoing by a "rogue" cop, prosecutor, or "judge on the take"....WE WISH !

Last edited by host; 12-28-2007 at 10:32 AM..
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Old 12-28-2007, 10:43 AM   #10 (permalink)
 
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i am wondering if folk have a pre-set threshold relative to which they make judgments about this sort of issue or if they realize that they had thresholds once a situation pushes them past it.

i'm not sure that i have a particular co-ordinate system in place--i'm not sure if there is a particular amount of information concerning police misconduct that would push me over a line or not. i understand the police as an extension of state power and that state power is an extension of class power. so there is an extent to which i would see the police as a largely repressive arm to begin with--but even with that said, i am not sure about this question of thresholds, or tipping points.
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Old 12-28-2007, 11:40 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roachboy
i am wondering if folk have a pre-set threshold relative to which they make judgments about this sort of issue or if they realize that they had thresholds once a situation pushes them past it.

i'm not sure that i have a particular co-ordinate system in place--i'm not sure if there is a particular amount of information concerning police misconduct that would push me over a line or not. i understand the police as an extension of state power and that state power is an extension of class power. so there is an extent to which i would see the police as a largely repressive arm to begin with--but even with that said, i am not sure about this question of thresholds, or tipping points.
Great angle on "tipping" points. I think that we reach them, primarily in hindsight, and that the signs of tipping points are over reaction. I think the reaction to "black crime" is the best one that I can come up with, right now.

I am concerned that it's begininings as "a problem" are blurred with racial persecution. Even with that, sometime, probably in the '70's the reaction to "black crime" led to the building of more jail cells and stiffer penalties for drug possession and distribution (ala Rockefeller drug laws). The result was a dramatic growth in the law enforcement, adjudication, and corrections "industries", to the extent that one in six black male adults is in "the system", as an inmate, an accused, on parole, or on probation.

The "tipping point" reaction by "society" to "black crime" had an escalating, snowballing effect. The more blacks "put in the system", the more new cells were built, the more additional black males were "put in the system".

We know that we are not at a "tipping point" with official corruption, because enforcement....arrests, jailings, are not increasing at a dramatic pace. Signs of increasing concern are the dramatic politicization of the DOJ recently, and the appointments of Kerik and Norris to such high sensitive positions at DHS and in Maryland, followed by their respective indictments.

The jail cells in the US are chock full of young black males, though. While there is plenty of intimidation of young black males, police and prosecutors seem to be increasingly elevated to a level of regard, expecially after 9/11, that is reserved in this country for...."the troops". 343 NY City firefighters dies on 9/11, and of the 43 police officers who perished, many were actually non-law enforcement policy emergency service personnel.

You've touched on something, roachboy. The entire apparatus of US authority, because of the incessant playing of the 9/11 "fear card", has gotten a "pass" as far as oversight and accountability. "There's no time for that, now....there's a war on, we're fighting to preserve our way of life, because, they hate us for our freedom".

It's more like a form of leukemia, I think, than a tumor. It's slower to act, but it reaches every area, and still wrecks the health of the patient. The tipping point for the public, though, is reached by what the immediacy of what it thinks it is most aggravated by...be it the young black male, or the cop on the beat.
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Old 12-28-2007, 12:43 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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this presupposes total political incoherence on the part of the public, though: a purely reactive posture driven to action, such as it is, by the accumulation of a particular type of stimulation. it presupposes the absence of any co-ordinating mechanisms in how people think about politics---dimension is separated from dimension, linkages disappear with the result that each situation isolated--and so what counts as cumulative data, the sort of thing that would push someone to the point of thinking systematically or acting politically would rely on the operation of a kind of abstract family resemblance between isolated situations...it makes sense to argue, but is really depressing if you think about it----the fragmentary characteristics of information streams are internalized (for example) and their consequences acted out.

if that's true concerning the outline of political thinking that is being imputed to some public here, then maybe in such a context there is no tipping point at the collective level--the best one can hope for is something like peter finch's outburst in "network"--yelling out the window, trying to get others to yell out the window as well. if lots of people yell out their respective windows, then it is a political action. but that's also all a political action can be: yelling out your living room window into the street that you're snippy as hell and aren't going to take it any more.

meanwhile time passes, the yelling dissolves and everything continues as it had been.
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Old 12-28-2007, 02:09 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Police corruption has been a problem since the first guy with a club was given some sort of guard duty.

While over all I think the problem is relatively small in the grand scheme of things in the US, the corruption in the system has never been unknown in the US by anyone who has paid attention.

In my city of Chicago alone police were notoriously corrupt in the days of prohibition, it was an open secret that you could bribe your way out of minor offenses in Chicago until the Greylord investigations, and recently police offers have been video taped in two beatings of citizens, one was a particularly heinous assault on a female bartender. When my uncle was a police offer for Lombard Il in the early 80's the police chief was paid off by the mob, who kept the police from a few establishments with illegal gambling. Worse corruption has been in other suburbs including murder.

Likewise other cities have their own stories, some even worse (such as New Orleans).

The real question is 'so what?'

As long as a system has people with power, there will be occasional abuses. This of course has nothing to do with 9/11, in fact everything I talked about in Chicago was prior to 9/11 except for the beatings, so I won't go down hosts magic rabbit hole there. What it does require is a way to guard the guards, and in that we have made great strides, but perhaps not fast enough.

Most of the abuses of power that get proper attention are those caught on video tape. Its one thing to claim abuse, its another to show it. We currently have the technology to pretty much wire every police officer for full sound and video along with a GPS. Every interaction they have, at least in an official capacity could be recorded and retrieved should a complaint arise.

Now there are some pitfalls to this. It would force police to always enforce the law to the letter, no more warnings, no more 'keep your nose clean kid'. It would also put more stress on the officers, imagine if everything you did for the day was recorded in full detail (minus your bathroom breaks). No place to take a personal call, no relaxing a moment on tfp, the little things to keep you sane at work.

Still, it would perhaps be worth it.

Edit: I voted no for the poll, I think its a problem, one worth fixing, but its less 'serious' then many problems the country faces.
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Old 12-28-2007, 02:28 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roachboy
this presupposes total political incoherence on the part of the public, though: a purely reactive posture driven to action, such as it is, by the accumulation of a particular type of stimulation. it presupposes the absence of any co-ordinating mechanisms in how people think about politics---dimension is separated from dimension, linkages disappear with the result that each situation isolated--and so what counts as cumulative data, the sort of thing that would push someone to the point of thinking systematically or acting politically would rely on the operation of a kind of abstract family resemblance between isolated situations...it makes sense to argue, but is really depressing if you think about it----the fragmentary characteristics of information streams are internalized (for example) and their consequences acted out.

if that's true concerning the outline of political thinking that is being imputed to some public here, then maybe in such a context there is no tipping point at the collective level--the best one can hope for is something like peter finch's outburst in "network"--yelling out the window, trying to get others to yell out the window as well. if lots of people yell out their respective windows, then it is a political action. but that's also all a political action can be: yelling out your living room window into the street that you're snippy as hell and aren't going to take it any more.

meanwhile time passes, the yelling dissolves and everything continues as it had been.
This is from eleven years ago, probably at the height of the after the fact "tipping point". This piece is authored by a professor who was described as "liberal". Five years later, in 2001, president Bush appointed John J. DiIulio, Jr. as the first head of his new "Office of Faith Based Initiatives":
Quote:
http://www.city-journal.org/html/6_2_my_black.html
Spring 1996

My Black Crime Problem, and Ours
John J. DiIulio, Jr.

....In 1993 the National Center on Institutions and Alternatives (NCIA), an advocacy group that opposes mandatory sentencing and favors making a greater use of probation, parole, and rehabilitation programs, publicized its finding that “43 percent of all young black men in Washington, D.C.—and 56 percent in Baltimore—are firmly in the grip of the justice system.” The press broadcast the numbers far and wide. As was later revealed in an analysis by the American Alliance for Rights and Responsibilities, the statistics were a bit inflated, but even after appropriate correction, the NCIA study would still have found about 35 percent of Washington’s young black men in prison, in jail, on probation, or on parole. Indeed, in a highly publicized 1995 report, the Sentencing Project, a Washington-based counterpart of NCIA, found that nationwide about one in three black males age 20 to 29 was under some form of correctional supervision. As the Sentencing Project reported, in 1989 about 610,000 black males in their twenties—23 percent of the cohort—were in custody. But by 1995 that number had risen to over 827,000—32.2 percent of the nation’s twenty-something black males. One could quibble with the estimates, but the finding is valid; in fact, my own estimates would indicate that the number is already closer to 50 percent in some places, and that nationally it will be nearer to a half than a third by the year 2000.

As the Sentencing Project boasts, “the report has had a major impact in the media and among policymakers.” Oddly, however, its “major impact” has been to divert attention from the big truth that one in three young black males is under correctional supervision because young black male rates of serious crime are so high. Instead it has focused attention on the half-truths and outright distortions long purveyed by the Sentencing Project, other anti-incarceration advocacy groups, and their funders and allies in the drug legalization movement, the liberal foundations, the politically correct universities, and the elite media. The mantra goes like this: how shameful to America that one in three young black males is in custody . . . most of those in custody are in for petty drug crimes . . . revolving-door justice is a right-wing myth . . . the justice system is racist . . . America has been on an imprisonment binge . . . prisons don’t cut crime in the least . . . imprisonment is not only an ineffective response to crime but a racist one.

Predictably, the Sentencing Project and its turn-’em-loose comrades-in-arms have now begun to dig for more such racially polarizing pay dirt. For example, the Center for Juvenile and Criminal Justice in San Francisco recently “found” that 40 percent of black men in their twenties in California were under some form of correctional supervision. Representative Maxine Waters held a news conference in which she declared the study proof that in California the color of your skin dictates whether you will be arrested or not, prosecuted harshly or less harshly, or receive a stiff sentence or gain probation or entry into treatment. The report itself called for a moratorium on prison construction in California until the state’s penal code is “overhauled.” It also called for mandating “racial impact statements” in all new crime legislation, and for a state commission to study black “overrepresentation.” Except for a very few dissenting voices, including the nation’s leading crime-policy scholar, UCLA’s James Q. Wilson, virtually all the published and broadcast “expert” commentary on this report followed the radical-liberal party line.

The Sentencing Project and its supporters can pretend all they want that racism and the “war on drugs” have put too many harmless young black males in prison. But are racist drug laws responsible for the fact that weapons arrest rates during 1993 were five times greater for blacks than for whites? Do they explain the fact that 47 percent of all black men in prison in 1995 were in for a violent crime, and that most black state prisoners, like most state prisoners, have committed one or more violent crimes in the past? Do they explain the fact that the black men in prison for a drug crime were, like virtually all prisoners, repeat offenders with non-drug crimes on their rap sheets?

There are Washington monument-sized fallacies and contradictions in what the Sentencing Project and its allied spin doctors have argued about “1 in 3.” For example, the system is supposedly “racist” because it hammers black drug dealers. But who wants them hammered? Look at the survey data on decriminalizing or legalizing drugs. Without fail, blacks are every bit as opposed to weakening anti-drug enforcement efforts as whites. Only 30 percent of blacks would even consider legalizing marijuana; virtually none will even debate legalizing harder drugs. My dear friend and former colleague Ethan Nadelmann is director of the Lindesmith Center and the country’s leading proponent of turning down the volume on the drug war. His most vehement, unyielding critics are not middle-class whites led by right-wing Republicans. Rather, they are poor and working-class blacks led by folks like New York’s black Democratic Representative Charles Rangel.

What if, for argument’s sake, one swallows the notion that the system now “over-punishes” black drug dealers, and that most of these “drug dealers” are not, in fact, plea bargain–gorged persons with long adult and juvenile records of criminal mischief against persons and property? What then? Which drug-crime 911 calls from black neighborhoods are the police to ignore? Which black drug dealers should be released back to their communities tomorrow morning?

You can’t have it both ways—protesting that police are less responsive to black crime victims than to white ones in one breath, charging that “too many” black victimizers get caught, convicted, and sentenced, in the next; spinning out conspiratorial theories of white acquiescence in letting drugs flow into black communities in the morning, complaining that efforts to crack down on the drug trade are motivated by racism in the
afternoon   click to show 


Hear the Reverend Jesse Jackson. For over a decade, no national black leader has argued more eloquently against policies that offer blacks jails instead of jobs—and none was quicker to make hay of the Sentencing Project’s “1 in 3” finding. But recall Jackson’s own tortured words on November 27, 1993: “There is nothing more painful for me at this stage of my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start to think about robbery and then look around and see it’s somebody white and feel relieved. How humiliating.” ....
Can you imagine, a "tipping point" being passed that would trigger sentiment sufficient for an article like the one above to be written about the crimes of police, prosecutors, and the judiciary?

I suspect that the crimes of these official institutions are doing even more damage to society as a whole, today, than "black crime" could ever do. Much of the crime is official indifference to actually proving who is guilty, while protecting the innocent accused. What is the cost and impact of a system that turns a blind eye towards official corruption even as it is busily framing actually innocent defendants, or failing to disclose to defendants, exculpatory evidence obtained by prosecutorial investigators and police?

I think part of the problem is that police and prosecutors, just by indifference or lax attitude about their sworn duties and responsibilities, become accustomed to committing relatively minor crimes of omission or selectivity.
"I know this guy is as guilty as sin, so I'm going to overlook the exculpatory evidence in the case....I'm not going to tell the defense attorney about it.
They start to play judge and jury, instead of letting the evidence lead in whatever direction it should properly go.

Ustwo, it helps my conviction that we are in a corruption crisis, now that you have weighed in with your take that there is only a "small" problem. Your advocacy for the death penalty remaind unshaken, I presume?

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Old 12-28-2007, 03:33 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by host
Ustwo, it helps my conviction that we are in a corruption crisis, now that you have weighed in with your take that there is only a "small" problem. Your advocacy for the death penalty remaind unshaken, I presume?
A 60's child and this is all new to you?

host if this is a crisis it has been a crisis since the country was founded. I think its less of a crisis now than it has been in the past as now abuses can be publicized in ways that were not possible 30+ years ago.

I have to wonder what sort of sheltered life you have led that it took a recent movie to see this 'problem' for the first time.
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Old 12-28-2007, 03:39 PM   #16 (permalink)
 
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if you take this trend in isolation, ustwo's response is perfectly reasonable.
if you don't take it in isolation, then you have to show why you shouldn't.
i'm not sure that the bush regime, no matter what it has been up to, is adequate as a linking device.

that there is arguably extensive corruption at many levels within the american order is a systemic matter---that this corruption operates without oversight is a function of institution design---and could be interpreted as a prerogative of power as we currently endure/understand it. that this is not acceptable is a political question and in the present state of affairs the options are basically either mobilize within the system to effect changes in design/orientation/policy--but you disappear outside it---or mobilize pressure that can be brought to bear from outside the system via protests of various kinds--in which case you may remain visible to the outside, but probably will be invisible inside the system you are trying to change.

another option is ideology critique.
this simply requires writing and putting stuff out into the world.
it might not do anything.

but the outline of a critique is pretty straightforward:
in a social-democratic model, all this constitutes both political pressure and feedback loops which are brought to bear on the state.

in the neoliberal model, the state is not directly political in the same way, relegated to a narrow sphere of activity, most of which are categorized as introducing distortions in flows that otherwise are self-regulating. it's primary function in neoliberal land is repression, its instruments the military and the police.

in a social-democratic model, one of the central functions of the state is to address the social consequences of capitalist activity, to ameliorate them in the interest of over-all system stability.

in the neoliberal model, these consequences are absorbed into a claim that social hierarchies are natural that the consequences of capitalist activity should be evaluated on utilitarian grounds and that the socio-economic elite gets to control what the utilitarian grounds look like. so the space for political action is almost erased.

so you could argue that a social-democratic regime is MORE democratic and that in a MORE robust manner than neoliberal-type societies--this DESPITE the wider role played by the state in the former--because the space of politics is held open, is understood expansively.

neoliberalism reduces the space of political action, defines individuals as powerless and uninformed by virtue of the erasure of the space for political action--so the neoliberal state cuts itself off from basic feedback loops (like it or not, a political action is both what it says it is and an index of a problem or gap within the existing state of affairs and so can always be interpreted in at least two ways) neoliberalism is an ideology of cut and run, so this is no surprise.

one thing is clear--bureaucratic institutions require feedback loops to be coherent. and you could say that neoliberal suspicion of politics amounts to an erasure of those feedback loops. from this it would follow that the past 30 years of american ideological history have been one long, sustained and disastrous experiment with a particularly dysfunctional capitalist ideology. so this connects the present sorry state of affairs in the states back to the thatcher-reagan period, which saw the rise of a kind of idiot triumphalist take on the end of the cold war and a fundamental crisis of the whole of the political left at more or less the same time. since conservatives never figured out the functional aspects of having a left around, and saw in the left only an Enemy, it kinda follows that you'd find the triumphalist reading of the period blah blah blah. from this viewpoint, thatchers assaults on the uk coal miners is only an idex, but an important one.

so i think in general that the lack of response to mounting evidence of corruption, starting with the bush people and heading downward to the most local levels is a function not of the situations themselves but of the ideological context in which we sadly find ourselves. it seems to me that even folk who would reject neoliberal positions find themselves performing the restricted understanding of politics, its space and its meaning that accompanies neoliberalism. i tend to see this erasure of the political as a nihilist action on the part of the right, frankly--even their boy hayek argued that monopolies do not and cannot know what is happening internally, that they rely on feedback loops---and this was in the end the main motivation behind arguments for free markets--in "perfect competition" price and its history would be that feedback loop. but perfect competition is an illusion--so its correlate lay in the widest possible purview for political action, and a faith in the democratic polity. in neoliberal-land, you do not have a democratic polity--you have shoppers. you do not have political feedback loops becaue people seem to have been convinced that there's no point.

of course, such a system---what we have==gives the lie to basic terms like democracy and freedom--but no matter: the right seems all abotu short-term thinking and when pushed you'll find out that the end times are upon us so that's fine. they'll reap what they've sown.

i was making this up as i go, so it is what it is: not anything terribly worked out, more just thinking through problems. normally, i wouldn't set up socal democracy as an alternative, but i thought it useful to stay within the frame of capitalist-specific options.
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Old 12-28-2007, 05:55 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
A 60's child and this is all new to you?

host if this is a crisis it has been a crisis since the country was founded. I think its less of a crisis now than it has been in the past as now abuses can be publicized in ways that were not possible 30+ years ago.
Have you watched and read the news about Chicago PD in the last 10 years? FINALLY, the chicago sun times wrote a two part article on the secrecy of cop involved shootings, and all they really wanted to expose was the amount of money the city paid out for them, not expose any of the corruption behind the investigations of them.
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Old 12-28-2007, 06:03 PM   #18 (permalink)
 
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the chicago reader has been publishing stuff about this for a long time....
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Old 12-28-2007, 06:07 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roachboy
the chicago reader has been publishing stuff about this for a long time....
whats the number of their reader base?
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Old 12-28-2007, 06:13 PM   #20 (permalink)
 
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it's pretty big, but i dont know the numbers, and i'm not sure if they do either simply because it's a free weekly......its not obvious how folk read it, whether they look at the articles--which are often quite good--or if they just use it for the listings of things happening about town. what's pretty clear is that it doesnt go for the same demographic as does the sun.
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Old 12-28-2007, 06:45 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
A 60's child and this is all new to you?

host if this is a crisis it has been a crisis since the country was founded. I think its less of a crisis now than it has been in the past as now abuses can be publicized in ways that were not possible 30+ years ago.

I have to wonder what sort of sheltered life you have led that it took a recent movie to see this 'problem' for the first time.
Ustwo, you'll have to hire a researcher if you decide to take this challenge:

A leading candidate for the 2008 republican presidential nomination, and the president of the United States, both "fell" for this uneducated, underqualified, criminal bullshitter's "line":
Quote:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...52C1A9679C8B63
Kerik Says He Won't Stay On as Police Commissioner

By KEVIN FLYNN
Published: November 10, 2001

.....It is unclear whom Mr. Bloomberg will select to replace Mr. Kerik, but the name mentioned most frequently is that of Raymond W. Kelly, a former police commissioner under Mayor David N. Dinkins who is now senior managing director for global security at Bear Stearns. Were Mr. Kelly to assume the job, he would be the first person to return for a second stint as commissioner under a different mayor.

Two other names on Mr. Bloomberg's short list <h3>are said to be Edward Norris, a former New York police commander who now runs the Baltimore department</h3>, and Joseph P. Dunne, first deputy police commissioner of New York.

Mr. Kerik, 46, said he intended to take several months off, then will explore setting up his own security consulting company, a plan that he said might dovetail at some point with Mr. Giuliani's own aspirations. Mr. Kerik said one impetus for leaving was a recent encounter with his wife when he exclaimed that their daughter was walking. He said he was informed that the landmark event had actually occurred days earlier when he had not been home.

''I have to look at what I have done throughout my life,'' Mr. Kerik told a news conference at Police Headquarters, ''and what I have been through in the last eight years, most importantly the last year, and then the last eight weeks. I think you have to set priorities in your life, and my priorities right now are focused toward my family and the future.''

Mr. Kerik, a former undercover narcotics detective with the thick neck of a bulldog, first worked for Mr. Giuliani as a campaign bodyguard in 1993. Although <h3>Mr. Kerik never rose above the rank of third-grade detective in eight years on the force and lacked a college degree, Mr. Giuliani discerned in him a talent for management</h3> and appointed him to a post in the Department of Correction in 1994.

He later served as the commissioner of correction, helped to reduce jail violence and was <h3>appointed to succeed Howard Safir as police commissioner in August 2000.</h3>

In fighting crime, Mr. Kerik's approach was not one of startling innovation. He largely relied on a system created by his predecessors, William J. Bratton and Mr. Safir, which depended on the rapid deployment of additional officers to areas defined as crime-prone by computer mapping. Mr. Kerik tinkered with that system, however. He created a central clearinghouse for intelligence data and expanded the size of the squad that pursues fugitives, and crime continued to decline. It is down 13 percent for the first 10 months of this year compared with last, an achievement that has won accolades......
If things are "better" presently than they were years ago, please post another instance when such a corrupt, clearly unqualified man was appointed to head a 45,000 officer police dept., or when a president made such an error for such an important appointment, Kerik as head of DHS. Show us an instance when a criminal was exiting a position of such responsibility as Kerik's was at NYPD, weeks after 9/11, and another felon to be, Norris, was under consideration for appointment to replace him.

Or, show us a time since the Civil Rights Act was passed in 1964, when the DOJ was as lacking in integrity and in it's commitment to impartially prosecute criminals and to enforce the provisions of the Civil Rights and the Voting Rights Acts.

...and I take it that you see no problem here worth your time or concern:
Quote:
http://trinifar.wordpress.com/2007/0...lation-growth/

prison population growth

February 16, 2007 by Trinifar


Every candidate for public office promises to be tough on crime, and, unlike many political promises, these are kept — as the graph below demonstrates. Not only are we locking up more people from year to year, we are locking up a higher portion of the population each year.
<br><center><img src="http://trinifar.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/prisonpop.png"></center>

In America we have more people in prison — in raw numbers and as a portion of our population — than any other nation in the world. We also spend more money on this than any other country. Yet we don’t have less crime; every European nation has lower crime rates (and lower incarceration rates for that matter) than we do.

You’ve likely read something about this recently. Here’s a (tiny) sample from the nation’s press:

* Arizona prison population may grow 35% by 2011 — <a href="http://trinifar.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/prisonpop.png">Tucson Citizen</a>
* …Iowa’s prison population will grow by 16% in the next five years… — <a href="http://www.radioiowa.com/gestalt/go.cfm?objectid=C242F5DC-BF20-47B2-FED698DCA41F81E8">RadioIowa</a>
* Ohio’s prison population is expected to grow by 20 percent over the next five years,… — Cleveland Plain Dealer
* Prison Growth Could Cost $27.5 Billion Over Next 5 Years — <a href="http://www.salem-news.com/articles/february152007/usprisongrowth_021507.php">Salem News</a>

Even other countries noticed:

* The increase — projected … to be three times faster than overall population growth in the U.S. — is expected to cost states more than $27 billion. — <a href="http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/14/news/prison.php">IHT.com</a>

The surge of headlines is due to the publication of Public Safety, Public Spending: Forecasting America’s Prison Population 2007-2011, the source of the <img src="http://trinifar.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/smbluestar.png"> projection in the above graph. Links: the <a href="http://www.pewpublicsafety.org/">complete report</a> and the <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20070306151020/http://www.pewtrusts.org/news/news_subpage.cfm?content_item_id=3968&content_type_id=16&page=nr1">press release</a>.

Causes, as reported by the states, of prison growth being faster than population growth:

* movement from indeterminate to determinate sentencing
* abolition of parole and adoption of truth-in-sentencing requirements
* lower parole grant rates
* passage of “three-strikes” laws
* establishment of sentencing guidelines

Some will say that’s just the price we must pay for justice. But is it?

“Prisons are the fourth-largest state budget item behind health, education and transportation.” However, unlike the other items states get very little federal money for prisons. If nothing changes $27.5 billion will be spent in the next five years just to cover the cost of the increase in the number of prisoners: $12.5 billion for new prisons and $15 billion to run them. This is in addition to the $61 billion now being spent each year.

About the report:

* The purpose of the report is “to help states advance fiscally sound, datadriven policies and practices in sentencing and corrections that protect public safety, hold offenders accountable and control corrections costs. The project helps states diagnose the factors driving prison growth and provides policy audits to identify options for reform, drawing on solid research, promising approaches and best practices in other states.”
* The report “is for state and federal prisons, not jails. Prisons generally hold offenders sentenced to a year or more in custody [for felony convictions]; jails hold people awaiting trial and serving sentences shorter than a year.” However, the ratio of 1 person in jail for every 2 in prison has been constant from 1980 to the present.
* The <a href="http://www.jfa-associates.com/">JFA Institute</a> prepared the report for the Public Safety Performance Project of the Pew Charitable Trusts. JFA is a Washington-based, nonprofit consulting firm which conducts prison population forecasts under contract with a number of states; several other states use JFA’s software to make their projections.
* Three three independent specialists — including the former director of research for the Federal Bureau of Prisons and the former bureau chief of the Bureau of Research and Data Analysis for the Florida Department of Corrections — screened the report for methodology and accuracy.

It’s non-partisan. Read it. Lots of <a href="http://www.thenation.com/doc/20040105/tuhusdubrow">data, well-done charts and graphs</a>, and only 26 pages long excluding the appendix. It will allow some brave legislators to begin to talk about prison and crimial justice reform in a meaningful way, <h2>if only because they can now do so under the guise of budget control.</h2>
Part of the corruption is the steady rise in the percentage of the US population that is incarcerated....it all needs to be confronted, discussed and remedied, as one problem, and it cannot be separated from the problem of corrupt, "partisan first", appointments by elected officials of incompetents and ethically challenged individuals as judges and police dept. administrators.

Last edited by host; 12-28-2007 at 07:06 PM..
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Old 12-28-2007, 06:49 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roachboy
it's pretty big, but i dont know the numbers, and i'm not sure if they do either simply because it's a free weekly......its not obvious how folk read it, whether they look at the articles--which are often quite good--or if they just use it for the listings of things happening about town. what's pretty clear is that it doesnt go for the same demographic as does the sun.
a free weekly? we've got one of those here in the dallas area as well. Lots of people read them, but the demographics are usually people who are not in a position to do much, if anything, about the controversial stuff.
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Old 12-30-2007, 07:43 AM   #23 (permalink)
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This is long, I recommend reading all of it:
<a href="http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/12/30/oligarchy/index.html">Oligarchical Decay</a>
Some highlights:
Quote:
....As Matt Stoller recently noted in an excellent post on the bipartisan orthodoxies that are untouchable in political debates, "there are 1 million people put in jail for doing what Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, and George Bush have done" (buying and consuming illegal drugs) and "2 million people are in prison in America, by far the highest total of any other country in the world." It's almost impossible for the non-rich to defend themselves effectively against government accusations of criminality, and judges have increasingly less sentencing discretion to avoid imposing harsh jail terms. Punishment for crimes is for the masses only, not for members in good standing of our political and corporate establishment.

Where our political elite break the law, our leading media stars and pundits fulfill their central purpose by dutifully arguing that establishment figures who have broken the law have done nothing wrong and deserve protection, even our gratitude, when they do so. In the view of our establishment, even mere civil liability -- never mind criminal punishment -- is deeply unfair when imposed on lawbreaking corporations, as we see in the "debate" over telecom immunity.

This same warped principle is also expressed in how our establishment scorns the work John Edwards did in representing maimed or dead individuals against the corporations which, through recklessness or negligence, destroyed their lives. From a letter from Theodore Frank of the American Enterprise Institute to the New York Times today (h/t Jay Diamond):

<i>"There is a critical distinction between Mitt Romney's and John Edwards's wealth. Mr. Romney, as a businessman, made investments that created wealth. Mr. Edwards, as a trial lawyer, made his money through lawsuits that merely took from one pocket and gave to another, and probably destroyed wealth in the process. (Mr. Edwards's multimillion-dollar medical malpractice verdicts almost certainly hurt the quality of health care in North Carolina.)

Little wonder that Mr. Romney understands that to improve the economy, one needs to expand the pie, while Mr. Edwards's policy proposals focus entirely on the redistribution of the existing pie without thought for the future adverse consequences to the size of the pie."</i>

Anything that results in accountability for our largest corporations is inherently bad, even when they're found under our legal system to have broken the law or acted recklessly. Thus, John Edwards' self-made wealth is deeply dishonorable and shameful because it came at the expense of our largest corporations and on behalf of the poor and dirty masses, while Mitt Romeny's wealth, spawned by his CEO-father's connections, is to be honored and praised because it benefited our establishment and was on behalf of our glorious elite.

Naturally, our establishment sees itself as Good, and thus, whatever their most powerful leaders do -- even when illegal -- is never really bad. It can't be, because they do it. Hence, George Bush's and Lewis Libby's felonies aren't really like the felonies of the "drug dealers" and the other street dirt. Neither the Law nor Jail are for the clean, good, upstanding establishment members, so sayeth Jay Rockefeller and Fred Hiatt and Joe Klein and David Ignatius and the rest.

* * * * *

Most revealing of all, anyone who insists that this should be different -- anyone who believes that our highest political officials and largest corporations should be held accountable when they break the law -- is a shrill "partisan," bent on vengeance and Guilty of obstructionism: trying to prevent the political establishment from operating in a harmonious, bipartisan manner to do their Important Work. At least under the Bush presidency, investigations into wrongdoing are bad and disruptive and mean-spirited, and calls for consequences for illegal behavior are shrill and nasty.....

.....UPDATE: On a not unrelated note, the annual survey of worldwide privacy rights conducted by Privacy International and EPIC has been released for 2007, and the U.S. has been downgraded from "Extensive Surveillance Society" to "Endemic Surveillance Society," the worst possible category there is for privacy protections, the category also occupied by countries such as China, Russia, Singapore and Malaysia. The survey uses a variety of objective factors to determine the extent of privacy protections citizens enjoy from their government, and the U.S. now finishes at the bottom for obvious reasons.

Evidence that we are becoming a lawless surveillance state is abundant. But let's forget all of that and figure out how we can best micro-manage the internal affairs of Pakistan and Iraq and Russia and Iran so that we can preserve Freedom and Democracy for the world.
...are we there yet? Are we living in a corporatist police state? If you don't think so, what else would have to happen to convince you that we are?

Charlatan, are columns like the one above, or threads like this one, tolerated by authority, where you are, or is it rare that anyone would attempt to probe their "limits", by writing and posting?

Last edited by host; 12-30-2007 at 08:11 AM..
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Old 12-31-2007, 12:20 AM   #24 (permalink)
Getting it.
 
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Location: Lion City
There is not a free press in this city state. The media is all owned by the government and only pays lip service to the concept of a free press.

Any criticism of the government, if it exists, is to be found online. There are some very strong blogs with loud voices.

That said, they are not immune from persecution.
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