11-05-2007, 02:16 AM | #1 (permalink) | ||||||||||||
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Who's Next?
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The agenda is to terrorize the US population with a constant hyped, manipulated, officially delivered "fear" message, with a constant railing against "activist judges", and "the courts", and "the lawyers", delivered as background "noise" accompanying the "terrorists hate us for our freedom", broadcast: They've coined the "term" lawfare to describe "enemy: misuse of US and foreign courts as a weapon against our military: Quote:
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Here are reports on how it's "gone down" in Pakistan, since last friday. The excuse given for suspending the constitution there was "terrorism", and interference by the legal system, with the country's "fight on terrorism". Look who had been targeted for detention...the judges, and the lawyers. Does it seem disturbingly similar to the Bush administration's "prep work", here in the US? It does to me. Why have we even let it get this far? Has Pakistan's dictator given us a sudden peak at our own future? Quote:
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A sensible suggestion from John Dean. If the democrats would demand this, and Bush does not attempt to stop the investigation of a special prosecutor, I'd view it as taking one step back from the progression towards getting "Pakistaned", wouldn't you? Quote:
Isn't it reasonable to suspect that the current regimes in both Pakistan and in the US pose more immediate and graver threats to the way of life of the inhabitants of both countries, than the "terrorists" do, today? Last edited by host; 11-05-2007 at 04:52 AM.. |
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11-05-2007, 08:10 AM | #2 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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you squarely place yourself right back in the herd of 'sheeple' by loudly declaring that we should settle for the lesser of two evils (democrats) and are only perpetuating the facade of freedom. stop that and try to bring about real change instead of choosing freedom based on ignorance over freedom based on lies.
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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11-05-2007, 09:43 AM | #3 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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dk: one of the classical questions for those who engage in revolutionary-oriented politics is what to do in the shorter run. so how do you work this problem for yourself?
typically, you have three options: 1. the short run is not my problem. 2. i would vote in the short run for the least of evils. 3. i would vote in the short run for candidates that would make certain situations better, but i assume that the existing order is incapable of really addressing these problems. the first would mean that you dont participate in elections. the argument for not participating probably lean on the principles that prompt you to think in more radical terms---the obvious problem is whether refusing to participate means that you neutralize yourself in the short term. the old trot idea is to vote for the worst candidate under the assumption that by enabling a fuck up to get into power, revolution is brought closer. but you see how well that idea has played out under george w bush... the second option is basically the hold-you-nose-and-vote one, and works off the simple reality of the situation--while you wait for something more radical to become possible, you have to live in this situation, and so would participate in it based on calculations as to interest. these interests can be mutually exclusive (e.g. you might really want some kind of libertarian revolution, but in the interim, there are problems with gun control, say) the third means that you would actively campaign for a candidate (or at least talk that candidate up) in a positive sense (not as the worst of evils)...because the idea of revolution would not be either included or excluded by participating in near-term politics for their own sake. so how do you work this? just wondering.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
11-05-2007, 09:45 AM | #4 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Indiana
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It's time for the president to hand over his nobel peace prize. |
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11-05-2007, 10:12 AM | #5 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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roach, shorter run or longer run is really irrelevant considering that the two major parties are like minded, with the exception of a handful of issues. Because these two parties have similar intent, insofar as keeping the status quo on power in the government, it behooves them to totally undermine and shutout any other person for any other office who has the intent to put power back in the hands of the people, i.e. ron paul. By choosing, as you put it, the least of two evils in the short run, you help perpetuate the power hold on two parties who's intent is the same, to push forward major agenda's that keep them in power while handing the occasional bone to it's subjects.
so how do you work that?
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
11-05-2007, 10:41 AM | #6 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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i actually dont have a consistent position on it.
there's a way in which i agree with you that we live under an oligarchy--but from a political position that i think is antithetical to yours. i come out of a marxist background, theoretically, and the situation of what was once the left, and of the basic elements that mobilized folk politically, is such that i dont have much faith that there'd be a revolutionary movement any time soon that wouldn't be even more problematic than the stasis we currently endure. so i make my choices about whether and how to participate in election politics on a kind of ad hoc basis. usually it comes to the second option of the 3 i outlined above. for example, if the next presidential election emerges from the field of people who now scuttle about the field, it'd definitely be number 2 (this in more than one sense)... but i wouldn't vote for a libertarian. that is, however, a different discussion. we have been bumping into each other here long enough now that you probably can figure out why without my having to make a long tedious posts about it.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
11-06-2007, 02:24 AM | #7 (permalink) |
Conspiracy Realist
Location: The Event Horizon
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The manual is not suprising, but does it matter who's next? The Federal Reserve Bank wont be an issue, neither will the dollar.
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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking |
11-06-2007, 03:29 AM | #8 (permalink) | ||||
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I thought that I made it clearer with my last question in the thread OP. I asked if, in both the US and in Pakistan, if the response to "terrorism" by the two governments, is more disturbing and damaging to the inhabitants of the two countries, than the terrorism, itself. I fear that the answer to the title question is....<h3>US !!!!</h3>...we're "next". I cannot exactly describe when oppression of individuals and deprivation of their rights and official criticism and disrespect for the rule of law and freedom of the press becomes "too much", in the name of "fighting terrorism"....but I know it when I see it....and now, I see it. The difference seems to be, in Pakistan, the leader has the courtesy to announce his oppression/suspension, while here in the US, it's simply happening, via "a thousand cuts": Quote:
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11-06-2007, 03:51 AM | #9 (permalink) |
Conspiracy Realist
Location: The Event Horizon
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DO you know what happened with the 2 proposals to abolish the 22nd amendment?
“Stop throwing the Constitution in my face, It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!”-- George Bush
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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking |
11-08-2007, 03:10 AM | #10 (permalink) | ||||||
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On another thread, I posted about the astounding and disturbing situation of an Associated Press photographer, a winner of the Pulitzer prize for his work, who has been detained in Iraq (he is an Iraqi....) by the US military without being charged or allowed a hearing.....and the AP, the biggest US news media pool, has been vocal in demanding justice for the photographer, and they've gotten no results:
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If I had to point to a single example of how vulnerable any of us are, it would be the example of the AP receiving a total brush off by our government, concerning the status of one of their own, after 18 months of captivity. I'm asking again, who is next? Is it not possible for them to come for you, or to treat us to a scenario similar to what hs happened in Pakistan? This is a politics forum. Why is there more discussion and concern on an Amazon.com book review page, to the trend we are witnessing of abridging our rights and spying on us....than there is on this forum? <h3>Untraceable US government cash for an effing dictator?</h3> Quote:
<h3>31 of 42 reviewers gave the new book, " The End of America: Letter of Warning To A Young Patriot ", a 5 star rating.</h3> There were only 6 reviews below 3 stars, they are available on the last page, and they make similar points that there is "nothing to see here, move along folks, etc." This is an excerpt from the new book by Naomi Wolf: Quote:
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Last edited by host; 11-08-2007 at 03:18 AM.. |
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11-23-2007, 01:49 PM | #11 (permalink) | ||
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If it is not 19-effing-84, now...then what makes it different from Orwell's prescient novel?
Cellphone Tracking Powers on Request Quote:
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If you believe that, you are also required to believe that authorities have no influence to or motive for controlling political or ideologicial opponents, and that they possess divine ability to discern, on their own, without a warrant signed by a judge, to determine who is "doing nothing wrong"..... |
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11-23-2007, 06:08 PM | #12 (permalink) |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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And then they came for the dentists, and there was no one left to speak out for me.
I think the amazing thing, that an administration so Machiavellian at silencing their opponents can be doing so badly in the polls. If they are evil, obviously they are doing it wrong.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
11-23-2007, 07:35 PM | #13 (permalink) |
Getting it.
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
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Why is there silence here?
It isn't because people aren't interested. It isn't because people aren't in general agreement. It's simply because people (beyond the very few who still post here) don't like getting brow beaten by your posts. They don't like wading through diatribe after diatribe. As I have said elsewhere, if your goal is to change people's minds. If your goal is to have any influence on how they think about this issue about which you are passionate (and thing they too should be passionate about)... you are failing. It's time to take a different approach.
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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke |
11-23-2007, 10:15 PM | #14 (permalink) | |
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My posts are the antithesis of posts like this example:
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I think that I am doing that. Others are not. Am I failing or are they failing? |
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11-23-2007, 10:37 PM | #15 (permalink) |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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What amazes me about all this is most here are quick to disect what you say and argue or throw facts around and talk about how bad things are, but not many really offer solutions.
It's easy to be negative and pass negativity, it's easy to yell and shout and not offer solutions or truly think. But the truly hard part is to recognize the problem, talk about it and offer solutions and debate over those solutions. I'd like to see more of that, not just spewing of articles and having the classic... "Yes it is" "No it isn't" "Dems pinko commies destroy economy" "GOP just evil non caring wanna be world dominators." Seems that's all the threads in this forum digress into. No thought in the posts, just let's bash people.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
11-24-2007, 08:14 AM | #16 (permalink) | |
Getting it.
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
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I would argue that your post and Ustwo's only differ in that his is funny. They are both part of the problem (for different reasons). I will say it again. If your purpose is to change opinions you are not achieving that goal. You have probably done more to push people away from the Politics Forum than anyone else. I will say that again just so it's clear, You have probably done more to push people away from the Politics Forum than anyone else. If you are honestly looking to be a force for change and wish to point out what you think is wrong with the current admin, you are failing. You know what you are talking about. You have done the research that few of us have the time to do. You are a fount of obscured knowledge. And you find yourself lamenting that nobody is discussing these things. Stop beating your head against the wall. What you are doing isn't working. Try another approach.
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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke |
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11-25-2007, 05:10 PM | #17 (permalink) | ||||
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Charlatan, you live in Canada, and I am assuming that you have not had the experience of living among so many, who out of partisan indifference or an uninformed and/or incurious nature, were "just fine" with this:
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As this thread indicates, three months before I joined TFP, no discussion was taking place on this forum: <a href="http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=58578">Reagan - An alternative viewpoint</a> For a discussion to take place, i'm assuming that the folks who could have posted in the 2004 thread at the preceding link would have been required to defend the indefensible, and they couldn't do it then, and they cannot, now. Consider that, in our "Reaganized" American era, I have nothing to discuss with a large portion of my countrymen, nor they with me. Under these circumstances, this forum becomes a place to highlight and display "the evidence", which is what I, with no possibility of discussion coming, as long as a majority are unoffended by what Reagan, said, did, and "stood for", ...am doing here. Last edited by host; 11-25-2007 at 08:05 PM.. |
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11-25-2007, 10:37 PM | #18 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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Rather then try to dissect unprovable allegations and unknown evidence, we need to think 'to what end'. To what end would this be if it were truly some sort of Brown shirt type of administration? Silencing some AP reporter, creating some sort of possible backlash for what? No gain in the polls, no gain really any where. I am always bemused by people who put this administration at the 'idiot' level and the 'evil genius' level when its really quite neither. Some things should be self evident. If they had found WMD's in Iraq about 80% of the issues would have gone away. We have been told by many how they lied to us blah blah blah, war crimes blah blah blah. Well if they were lying, why in holy hell didn't they plant some WMD's? How freaking hard would it be for these guys to plant a few dozen jugs of Anthrax? We could have even used past samples to culture to show it was the same Iraqi strain they had used before. Instead, nothing new. Now some say they were there and they were moved out by convoy to Syria prior to the war, maybe, by default WMD's are small, maybe not, others say they were never there, maybe maybe not, but it doesn't really matter. What matters is none were found and if the administration was lying, you can be for damn sure someone would have set up a cache to be 'found' by innocent and eager troops. We know what the issue is here Charlatan and it ain't me, I'm not the other part of the problem, I am the lightening rod
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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11-25-2007, 11:38 PM | #19 (permalink) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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When it came to initially "selling" justification for invading and occupying Iraq, and then defending the decisions, after the invasion, you could tell that Cheney and Bush were speaking deceitfully because their lips were moving: From 4-29-07. on another thread: Quote:
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...am#post2120124 Quote:
You posted this: Quote:
Ustwo has reminded in several posts, that he does not read what I post. I re-posted the background of Bush/Cheney deceit, because if is a foundation for the premise of this thread, and he says that he has avoided reading the information about the false tie between Zarqawi, the "Kermal poison camp", and "al Qaeda was in Iraq before we got there", that Cheney and Bush have repeated for four years to justify the invasion, that I have previously provided. We have this new thread on the forum today: Quote:
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The new thread with the six "yes or no" questions, attracted a nice turnout, didn't it? Last edited by host; 11-26-2007 at 01:12 AM.. |
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11-26-2007, 05:25 AM | #21 (permalink) |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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I think host has a crush on me.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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