The Free Market - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Ustwo · 11-01-2007, 11:03 AM

filtherton can you be more specific?

Your just so story doesn't mean crap without details, what was the device? Who was the company? Who bought it?

filtherton · 11-01-2007, 11:28 AM

The start-up was called Vascular Science, Inc. They were working on development of suture-free devices to facilitate coronary artery bypass graft anastomoses. The device and process had fda approval. They were bought by St. Jude.

For the record, i don't care if you think my story means crap or not- i've not known you to be the type to allow reality to change your mind anyway (at least as far as i know you- which isn't all that far). The fact that you may or may not find it credible is irrelevant to the fact that it is indeed possible, and not something a "free market" would necessarily prevent, or even discourage. If you don't think that it is possible for market forces to hinder improved medical procedures or devices then you are naive.

Ustwo · 11-01-2007, 12:26 PM

Quote:

COMPANY NEWS; ST. JUDE'S STOCK FALLS AFTER ACQUISITION REPORT

Published: September 11, 1999

Shares of St. Jude Medical Inc., the No. 1 United States maker of mechanical heart valves, fell as much as 20 percent yesterday after it said it had agreed to buy Vascular Science Inc. for about $100 million. St. Jude fell $6.06, to $31.25. The company announced after United States markets closed on Thursday that it would buy closely held Vascular Science Inc., a surgical-device maker which is developing tools for heart-bypass surgery, for $80 million in cash and as much as $20 million based on product-development goals. St. Jude said the purchase would cut earnings by 4 cents a share in the fourth quarter, and as much as 15 cents next year. Most analysts responded by cutting their earnings estimates, though they still recommend the stock.

So they took a $100 million dollar hit to hide a device?

This one?

Quote:

Skeletonized radial artery graft with the St. Jude medical symmetry bypass system (aortic connector system)
Go Watanabe, MD, PhDa*, Hirofumi Takemura, MD, PhDa, Shigeyuki Tomita, MD, PhDa, Hiroshi Nagamine, MD, PhDa, Hiroyuki Kamiya, MD, PhDa, Taro Kanamori, MDa

a Department of General and Cardiothoracic Surgery, Kanazawa University School of Medicine, School of Medicine, Kanazawa, Japan

Accepted for publication October 2, 2003.

* Address reprint requests to Dr Watanabe, Department of General and Cardiothoracic Surgery, Kanazawa University School of Medicine, 13-1 Takaramachi, Kanazawa 920-8641, Japan
e-mail: go@med.kanazawa-u.ac.jp

BACKGROUND: We report our initial experience with an automatic anastomotic device using skeletonized radial artery in patients requiring off-pump coronary artery bypass grafting (CABG).

METHODS: St. Jude Medical, Inc, Symmetry Bypass System (aortic connector system [ACS]) (St Jude Medical, St. Paul, MN) was used in ten patients. Ten consecutive patients who underwent off-pump CABG and who received at least one radial artery graft proximal anastomosis using the ACS were evaluated. The radial artery (RA) was harvested in a skeletonized fashion and applied to the ACS in the same manner as applying saphenous vein graft. The creation of the anastomosis lasted no longer than a few seconds.

RESULTS: Our attempt to use the ACS for proximal anastomosis of the RA was successful in all ten patients. Mean operating time was 3.2 ± 0.6 minutes and an average of 3.0 ± 0.9 bypass grafts (range, 2 to 5 grafts) were performed. There was no postoperative fatal complication. Postoperative angiographic control showed that all grafts were widely patent including grafts other than the RA. During the mean postoperative follow-up of 10.3 ± 2.9 months, there was no cardiac-related event in any patient.

CONCLUSIONS: The St. Jude Medical Symmetry aortic connector system allows the construction of uniform and widely patent anastomoses in RA graft and does not require aortic side biting. Skeletonization of the RA is a safe and effective technique for applying ACS in off-pump CABG using multiple arterial grafts.

and...

Quote:

(2004)
CONCLUSIONS: Automated anastomosis geometry is associated with less critical fluid dynamics than with conventional hand-sewn anastomosis: the shape of the proximal graft induces more physiological wall shear stresses and less oscillating flow, suggesting a lower risk of atherosclerotic plaque and intimal hyperplasia as compared with conventional anastomosis geometry. Therefore, the reported early thrombosis and late failure of the St Jude Medical aortic connector anastomoses are not related to unfavorable fluid dynamics.

http://jtcs.ctsnetjournals.org/cgi/c...ract/128/1/117

Quote:

...But three years ago, on opening day of the golf season, Martin found himself completely out of breath after only one hole. He went to a doctor, but nothing was found. The same problem recurred the following year. Finally, after "turning blue in the face and being scared stiff" on the first day of golfing again last year, Martin sought the advice of a heart specialist.

An angiogram showed that Martin had three blocked arteries. Doctors believed he had experienced a heart attack some time ago, something Martin had not noticed. His doctors attempted an angioplasty procedure, but were not successful in opening up his solidly blocked arteries. They recommended double bypass surgery.

During Martin's surgery, doctors used St. Jude Medical's Symmetry™ Bypass System Aortic Connector, a new sutureless connector device that allows cardiac surgeons to attach saphenous vein grafts to the aorta (anastomosis) without sutures. This innovative device is the first in a line of sutureless anastomoses products for coronary artery bypass graft (CABG) procedures.

Martin's recovery was "fantastic". The morning following surgery, he was walking in the hospital corridor with no cane or help from anyone. According to Martin, "The nurse said to me, 'Are you the patient who had surgery yesterday? What are you doing out here already?' "

http://www.sjm.com/successstories/su...Mauk%2C+Martin

There is a reason I don't change my mind often. Its so infrequently wrong.

Edit:

Just checked my post and I cut off the last bit...

Quote:

COMPANY NEWS; ST.JUDE MEDICAL TO STOP MAKING HEART DEVICE

Published: September 25, 2004

St. Jude Medical said it would stop making a device used during heart operations and, as a result, take a one-time charge of $32 million to $37 million in the third quarter. A decline in the number of operations that used the equipment led to the decision to halt production of the device, a symmetry bypass aortic connector, as of Dec. 31, a St. Jude spokesman, Peter Gove, said. The company, based in St. Paul, said it wanted to invest in more profitable products, like defibrillators for correcting irregular heartbeats. St. Jude said on Thursday that it planned to buy Endocardial Solutions, also based in St. Paul, for $273 million to gain defibrillators that detect the most common form of abnormal heart rhythm.

Its been implicated in a large number of lawsuits which is believed to be why St. Jude dropped the product. It was used in at least 25000 operations and the FDA was investigating. Now knowing how scummy lawyers in this are, it could be B.S. but thats another topic.

Perhaps this is the aspect you saw on the device.

Sun Tzu · 11-01-2007, 01:02 PM

If the free market is untainted anyone can produce a product that is marketable. So the real question is would consumers continue to buy products that cost more to operate if other options were readily available. Then comes in the conspiracy aspect.

Are we going to wake up one day and see on the front page all the oil tycoons have been arrested for blocking alternate energy development whether it be research or production? No, that is never going to happen. Is it really difficult to connect the dots? What proof do people need. Some call it paranoia, chasing shadows, whatever. There are multitudes of others that just call it common sense.

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filtherton · 11-01-2007, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

So they took a $100 million dollar hit to hide a device?

Well shit. I wasn't saying that they were necessarily hiding it. From my understanding, and this was back around 2000-2001 (which was apparently the last time my info was current), it was because they were poorly managed and weren't able to "get the word out," so to speak. I stand corrected.

Quote:

Its been implicated in a large number of lawsuits which is believed to be why St. Jude dropped the product. It was used in at least 25000 operations and the FDA was investigating. Now knowing how scummy lawyers in this are, it could be B.S. but thats another topic.

Perhaps this is the aspect you saw on the device.

This doesn't surprise me. I live in medical device country, and it seems like at least once every month or two there's some sort of recall or lawsuit.

Ustwo · 11-01-2007, 01:13 PM

Well one of those links (the one I looked at) was a guy coming up with a way to generate energy from salt water. It has nothing to do with conspiracies or big oil, in fact it was all in the open, and on the news.

If true, good for him, what does that have to do with the topic at hand in the slightest.

Sun Tzu · 11-01-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

If the shoe fits.
Its easy to claim 'conspiracy' when you THINK there should be something better, but it gets old. You have no proof, nor does anyone sane but you start to imagine this shadow world where you assume evil things are going on. Sure some people would lose money, but the first guy/company to come up with a real alternative fuel to petroleum will make so much money that they would need to think about buying countries if they wanted to spend it all.

No its not exactly on point, but I think the topics are close enough. Im not trying to spark an argument. Im trying to understand what criteria you use in arriving at some of your views, specifically in the area of government and alternative fuels. I think you are right in stating the free market stimulates technical development. Don't you think the vehicles running on something other than what is mainstream now would be marketable? Yes there are some out there, my point is something is blocking mass production, and I dont thinnk it is lack of consumers or their interest.

ASU2003 · 11-01-2007, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

So they took a $100 million dollar hit to hide a device?

I wouldn't be surprized. I bet their stock price went down too. Allowing more upper management to buy stocks. Then they revel that they have this new product, and the stock price goes up again.

Ustwo · 11-01-2007, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASU2003

I wouldn't be surprized. I bet their stock price went down too. Allowing more upper management to buy stocks. Then they revel that they have this new product, and the stock price goes up again.

You did read the rest right?

11-01-2007, 11:03 AM	#41 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	filtherton can you be more specific? Your just so story doesn't mean crap without details, what was the device? Who was the company? Who bought it? __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

11-01-2007, 01:02 PM	#44 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	If the free market is untainted anyone can produce a product that is marketable. So the real question is would consumers continue to buy products that cost more to operate if other options were readily available. Then comes in the conspiracy aspect. Are we going to wake up one day and see on the front page all the oil tycoons have been arrested for blocking alternate energy development whether it be research or production? No, that is never going to happen. Is it really difficult to connect the dots? What proof do people need. Some call it paranoia, chasing shadows, whatever. There are multitudes of others that just call it common sense. <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hcXLFDuAJNE&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hcXLFDuAJNE&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vm5JhpWt4GQ&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vm5JhpWt4GQ&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/aGg0ATfoBgo&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/aGg0ATfoBgo&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CArPHgNd2Qo&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CArPHgNd2Qo&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object> __________________ *To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking* Last edited by Sun Tzu; 11-02-2007 at 12:34 AM..

11-01-2007, 01:13 PM	#46 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Well one of those links (the one I looked at) was a guy coming up with a way to generate energy from salt water. It has nothing to do with conspiracies or big oil, in fact it was all in the open, and on the news. If true, good for him, what does that have to do with the topic at hand in the slightest. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

11-01-2007, 11:28 AM	#42 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	The start-up was called Vascular Science, Inc. They were working on development of suture-free devices to facilitate coronary artery bypass graft anastomoses. The device and process had fda approval. They were bought by St. Jude. For the record, i don't care if you think my story means crap or not- i've not known you to be the type to allow reality to change your mind anyway (at least as far as i know you- which isn't all that far). The fact that you may or may not find it credible is irrelevant to the fact that it is indeed possible, and not something a "free market" would necessarily prevent, or even discourage. If you don't think that it is possible for market forces to hinder improved medical procedures or devices then you are naive.