Bring Canadian Omar Khadr Home from Guatanamo? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Baraka_Guru · 06-06-2007, 03:41 PM

Now that he's in a kind of limbo in Gitmo, does Canada have a responsibility to bring Omar Khadr back?

I think that at least on a legal level, it is essential that we do something. If the Americans cannot carry out what they think is justice, Canada must ensure that something gets done.

What do you think?

Elphaba · 06-06-2007, 04:29 PM

With the recent SCOTUS decisions, Bush's entire rationale of "war" justice is also in limbo. If Canada can exert the needed pressure to free Khadr, I would hope that they do so.

We have a legal system that is very effective and sometimes even fair. I think it far superior to what Bush would have us submit to.

fresnelly · 06-06-2007, 04:50 PM

I think bring him home is a no-brainer. Detaining someone and isolating them without meeting a standard of indictment is absurd.

The real question is what to do with him once he's here. Is there any precedent for a citizen who fights for an opposing force?

Regardless, I prefer the wheels of justice to turn transparently and not on a government's whim.

Demeter · 06-07-2007, 01:50 PM

He should be released and allowed to come home.

Does anyone know of any petition or movement to do anything about his predicament. I've read about this, but sadly on my part, I haven't really looked into it as I should. If it were me, I'd sure as hell want people to be investigating and clamoring for justice.

highthief · 06-07-2007, 05:44 PM

He should be released and asked to swim to safety.

Really, I am against the war in Iraq and have been since day one. I don't hold with the US detention methods. Bush is a complete nutjob.

Having said that, this kid is now damaged goods. His family (in Scarborough, part of Toronto) are pretty hard core Islamists.

I wish he'd never gotten jailed to begin with, but now, honestly, he's more of a menace to Canada than when the US picked him up.

I have no desire to see him back here. Maybe the Excited States can feed and clothe him until he explodes like the time-bomb he now is.

percy · 06-17-2007, 04:43 PM

Wasn't the reason he was detained was because he killed an American soldier?

I would say even if he has Canadian citizenship, he was fighting in his other country in which I think he also is a citizen, so the Americans have first dibs on him.

Baraka_Guru · 06-17-2007, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by percy

Wasn't the reason he was detained was because he killed an American soldier?

I would say even if he has Canadian citizenship, he was fighting in his other country in which I think he also is a citizen, so the Americans have first dibs on him.

Yeah, and they already used up those dibs. But now what?

Baraka_Guru · 04-24-2009, 08:23 AM

Quote:

PM must press U.S. for Khadr's return from Guantanamo, court rules
Harper says government is considering appeal

CBC News

A Federal Court judge ruled Thursday that Prime Minister Stephen Harper must immediately demand Khadr's repatriation.
(Janet Hamlin/Pool/Associated Press)

Prime Minister Stephen Harper is required to press the United States for the return of Omar Khadr to Canada from Guantanamo Bay to "comply with a principle of fundamental justice," a Federal Court judge ruled Thursday.

Unmoved, Harper said the government may try to overturn the judge's decision on Khadr, who is accused of killing a U.S. army soldier with a hand grenade during a gunfight in Afghanistan in 2002.

"The facts, in our judgment, have not changed," he told MPs during question period. "We will be looking at the decision very carefully and, obviously, considering an appeal."

Justice James O'Reilly ruled in favour of Khadr's charter challenge of the Canadian government's decision not to request his repatriation from the U.S. detention centre in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

"The ongoing refusal of Canada to request Mr. Khadr's repatriation to Canada offends a principle of fundamental justice and violates Mr. Khadr's rights," O'Reilly said in his 43-page decision.

"To mitigate the effect of that violation, Canada must present a request to the United States for Mr. Khadr's repatriation as soon as practicable."
Mother worries government won't follow through

Omar Khadr's mother, Maha Elsamnah, said she is pleased by the court's ruling but wonders whether the Canadian government will simply refuse to heed it.

"You want to put your hope somewhere, and if it's the law, it's the most beautiful thing," she said in Toronto. "But if the ruler or the leader of the nation is controlling everything, you don't know who to trust anymore, the law or the government and the politics."

The CBC’s Rosemary Barton, reporting from Ottawa, said the government has long maintained that because of the seriousness of the charges, the Toronto-born Khadr should face military proceedings in the United States.

In Thursday's decision, the judge pointed out that Khadr is the last citizen of any Western country held at Guantanamo. Other countries have repatriated their citizens.

Khadr's lawyers argued the Canadian government was complicit in the detainee's alleged torture and mistreatment while in U.S. custody and obliged under international law to demand his return.

Khadr, now 22, was 15 at the time he was detained in Afghanistan.

Harper has steadfastly refused to get involved.
All Guantanamo prosecutions on hold

Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff, NDP Leader Jack Layton and Bloc Québécois Leader Gilles Duceppe have sent a letter to Harper and U.S. President Barack Obama calling for Khadr's repatriation and for any evidence against him to be released to Canadian authorities.

"We feel now that he should come home, and we have never objected to the idea that he should face justice for what he's accused of," Ignatieff said in Washington on Wednesday.

"The problem now is that he's been in custody so long and that the evidentiary trail is so screwed up — it's for prosecutors to determine this — but we have I think legitimate questions as to whether Omar Khadr can get a fair trial anywhere for these crimes."

The U.S. and Canadian governments are signatories to a United Nations protocol that states fighters under age 18 are to be considered child soldiers and must be released and helped to reintegrate into society.

Like all Guantanamo prosecutions, Khadr's case is currently on hold pending a review by Obama's administration.

One of Khadr's Canadian lawyers, Nathan Whitling, said he can't feel too optimistic about Thursday's court decision. He said Khadr has won court cases in the U.S. and Canada before, but to no avail.

"I might be forgiven for not being overly optimistic in terms of what relief might result from this decision today," Whitling said.

"There's no doubt this is a step in the right direction … but we've been through this too many times before to start getting giddy every time we get a good court decision."

The reality is that the U.S. government, not a Canadian court, has the final say over Khadr's fate, Whitling said, so Khadr's legal team will be bringing the court ruling to the attention of the Obama administration.

He says he hopes Harper won't go through with an appeal, although he isn't surprised that Harper has already talked of taking such action.

Khadr's U.S. military defence lawyer, Lt. Cmdr. William Kuebler, suggested it would be pointless for Harper to appeal.

"Omar Khadr is coming back to Canada eventually," he told CBC News. "Appealing this decision only delays the inevitable. It serves no purpose.

"After seven years, or almost seven years, I just can’t imagine that the Canadian government would do anything other than ultimately look at this decision and say, 'Okay, the time has come; let’s do the right thing and bring this young man home.' "

There would be no resistance from Washington, Kuebler predicted.

"It’s a tremendous embarrassment, what we’ve done to this young man in terms of detention and interrogation, in terms of fabricating evidence and false allegations against him, and I can’t imagine that the Obama administration would do anything other than jump at the chance to send this young man home if the Canadian government followed this decision and asked for his return."

PM must press U.S. for Khadr's return from Guantanamo, court rules

I can't believe Harper is going to appeal this. Khadr is the last Western citizen left sitting in Guantanamo.

Why should Khadr's fate depend on Obama's review of the situation? Khadr is a Canadian.

Is Harper worried about more bad press about allegations of torture? Is he just trying to keep his hands clean of the situation? I think it's already too late for that.

silent_jay · 04-24-2009, 08:43 AM

percy · 04-30-2009, 11:03 AM

Bring him back, give him a trial, prove he was siding with terrorists and put him in a Canadian jail for the rest of his life and let Canadian taxpayers foot the bill.

And the 15 year old bit. I was 15 once also and knew exactly what was right and wrong.

And his mother speaking about the Canadian government, who control everything, and who can't be trusted,... maybe her good friend Osama bin Laden can give her a little moral support.

And the fact that Canadians want him home because he is Canadian? Canadian Shamadian,...he was fighting in another country for a terrorist organization. He should have his citizenship pulled and deported.

Baraka_Guru · 04-30-2009, 11:24 AM

percy, your opinion is against the majority of Canadians, and I think it goes beyond the simple fact that he's a Canadian.

And you can't revoke the citizenship of or deport a natural-born citizen. Where are you going to deport him to? Cuba? Pakistan? The United States? That's a bit arbitrary, isn't it?

I think the biggest issue is that he's been stuck in Gitmo, and we know what that entails. I think the core issue here is the travesty of justice surrounding that whole operation.

I think what's at issue here is the rule of law. I think most Canadians support that same ideal.

dlish · 04-30-2009, 11:38 AM

the canadian people need to sway the canadian gov't in the same way the australians did with david hicks.

enough pressure, and the government will relent. its about the votes afterall.

in saying that, why apply different rules to a minor in terrorism cases as opposed to anything else, including murder? a minor is a minor in my eyes and deserves a second chance. you must also remember that he grew up in an environment under the nfluence of his father and OBL. do people really expect him to rebel?

the last i heard of him was seeing a video of him weeping calling out for his mother in an interrogation about a year ago.

vox_rox · 05-07-2009, 09:59 PM

It's not so simple, but we all know thee answer - he must come home. Having said that, we still have a few questions.

firstly, did he kill an American soldier and, even if he did, would he have been considered a child combatant? recent findings show that the US evidence against him is bogus and, and he WAS 15 at the time.

Secondly, he must be kept apart from his frickin' nut job family - my gawd, have you heard these people?!

Still, on the face of it, he should be sent back to Canada, IMHO.

Peace,
Pierre

dlish · 05-08-2009, 03:17 AM

his family is about as normal as the Adams Family.

didnt his older brother become an FBI informant and agreed to spy on other Gitmo prisoners and then bagged the US out after that when they dropped him off in the middle of nowhere in europe somewhere?

whatever his family has done though, it's no excuse for him not to be repatriated.

percy · 05-14-2009, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

I think the biggest issue is that he's been stuck in Gitmo, and we know what that entails. I think the core issue here is the travesty of justice surrounding that whole operation.

I think what's at issue here is the rule of law. I think most Canadians support that same ideal.

You're right. Let's bring him home.

And when that happens I certainly hope he has the decency, as a good Canadian, to wear red on Friday's to support our troops fighting in Afghanistan.

Baraka_Guru · 05-14-2009, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by percy

You're right. Let's bring him home.

And when that happens I certainly hope he has the decency, as a good Canadian, to wear red on Friday's to support our troops fighting in Afghanistan.

I don't even wear red on Fridays.

I'm sure if he's brought home, he will be too busy being charged with a serious crime to even think about his wardrobe.

james t kirk · 05-14-2009, 07:01 PM

I don't give a fuck about Omar Khadr.

He's hardly an innocent and I'm hardly going to be petitioning anyone on his behalf.

Let him have his day in court and let system decide what is done with him.

CandleInTheDark · 05-14-2009, 08:24 PM

He will have his fair trial. It does not matter to me much whether that trial is conducted by the US or by Canada.

Baraka_Guru · 06-23-2009, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Order to bring Khadr home appealed

Federal lawyers are appealing a court ruling that ordered the government to seek Omar Khadr's return from Guantanamo Bay.

The federal government has filed an appeal of a Federal Court ruling that it seek the return of Mr. Khadr, 22, from the U.S. military prison in Cuba.

Judge James O'Reilly ruled in April that the Conservative government's refusal to demand repatriation of Mr. Khadr offends fundamental justice. The judge ruled that the government must ask the United States “as soon as practicable” to send Mr. Khadr home.

Opposition parties have demanded that Mr. Khadr be brought home and tried in Canada, if necessary, in light of the court decision. But Prime Minister Stephen Harper told Fox News this month that Canada won't be taking any Guantanamo Bay detainees. Mr. Harper told the U.S. network that he is “not offering Canada as a safe haven for anyone that the United States considers to be a terrorist.”

Without mentioning Mr. Khadr by name, the prime minister said there is a Canadian at Guantanamo who's charged and his government is waiting to see what the administration of U.S. President Barack Obama does in that particular case.

The charges against Mr. Khadr are before an American military commission, but the hearings are on hold pending a review of his case.

Prisoners from other western countries, including Britain and Australia, were sent home long ago. Mr. Khadr is thought to be the last westerner at Guantanamo.

Mr. Khadr, who was born in Toronto, was 15 when he was captured by American soldiers in Afghanistan in 2002. He allegedly tossed a grenade that killed a military medic. While Mr. Khadr's plight has won him some symphony, his family has been widely criticized and called the “first family of terrorism.”

His father was an alleged al-Qaeda militant and financier who was killed by Pakistani forces in 2003. A brother, Abdullah Khadr, is being held in Canada on a U.S. extradition warrant, accused of supplying weapons to al-Qaeda. Another brother, Karim, was wounded and left a paraplegic in the gunfight that killed his father. He returned to Canada in 2004 for medical treatment and lives in Toronto.

Government lawyers were in court appealing the Khadr ruling days after Ottawa reversed its position on another Canadian jailed abroad.

The government said last week it would follow the Federal Court's order to let Abousfian Abdelrazik, a Montreal man jailed in Sudan, return to Canada. Mr. Abdelrazik was arrested but not charged during a 2003 visit to see his mother in Sudan. He says CSIS and American FBI officers interrogated him over purported terrorist links.

Mr. Abdelrazik also claims he was tortured. Canada says it knew nothing of the alleged abuse.

As much as you don't care about Khadr, this is getting ridiculous. Here we are clogging up the justice system, wasting tax-payers dollars, all for what? To leave a Canadian citizen in legal limbo in an American military prison? Isn't Canada the only G8 nation taking this position? Everyone else had their citizens extradited.

But no. Here we have the Canadian government refusing to follow a ruling stating that Khadr be returned. Why is that? Politics?

Harper is waiting to see what the Americans do with him. Well, how long has it been? How much has happened?

This isn't just about Khadr. This is about national sovereignty and standards of justice.

Baraka_Guru · 07-15-2009, 10:08 AM

It looks like Khadr's human rights may have been ignored by Canadian officials at the time of his interrogation by the U.S.

CSIS ignored Khadr's human rights: report

silent_jay · 11-13-2009, 04:27 PM

GreyWolf · 11-13-2009, 05:15 PM

This whole situation is an embarrassment to Canadians. The abdication of responsibility of our government towards one of it's own citiziens is disgusting.

silent_jay · 11-13-2009, 05:37 PM

dlish · 11-13-2009, 08:07 PM

according to the latest news, Omar Khadr will be tried in a revamped military tribunal, whilst the masterminds of 911 will face civilian trials in NYC.

9/11 suspects to be tried in New York | World News | News.com.au

that just doesnt make sense to me

Willravel · 11-13-2009, 08:18 PM

None of this makes any kind of sense to anyone with even a passing familiarity with the justice system.

silent_jay · 11-13-2009, 09:12 PM

Baraka_Guru · 11-14-2009, 06:00 AM

And then there is the issue of deporting American war resisters, which goes against Parliamentary votes.

It's clear Harper is playing politics, and he values staying on the good side of the American government and military despite the wishes of parliament, the judiciary, and the Canadian public (and despite the decisions of other members of the Commonwealth with regard to foreign nationals in Gitmo). I don't know why Harper would otherwise go against the grain on these matters. I hope this eventually becomes his undoing.

We can only speculate what Chrétien or Martin would have done.

GreyWolf · 11-14-2009, 09:50 AM

Chrétien would have paid his cronies to look into ways of doing nothing. The cost would have been far more than $1.3 million. Martin would have taken a vacation in Europe, at cost of over $1 million. Both of those guys were so corrupt and inept their only legacy was to rehabilitate Brian Mulroney's image and make him look marginally competent. Their only real salvation has been that Harper is SO bad, they look slightly less crooked than they actually were.

Imagine how good they'd look in comparison to Harper with a majority government!!

silent_jay · 11-14-2009, 10:27 AM

IdeoFunk · 11-15-2009, 02:03 PM

Seven years later and this kid is still in Gitmo...

Well as plain and simple the absurdity surrounding Omar Khadr is I've only recently become familiar with the history of the Khadr family as a whole. To me, it seems like the Canada/US desire to keep the Omar Khadr case locked in purgatory is somewhat resultant of his father's "shady" past. I'm curious how those of you who know more about this than I view the life of Ahmed Khadr. It seems that the US-Canadian government has tried to paint him as a Islamic Extremist from the start, while on the other side people have said he was just a philanthropist who eventually found himself increasingly immersed in a hairy and hairy situation....

GreyWolf · 11-15-2009, 02:50 PM

There's little doubt that the Khadr family has some shady dealings with terrorists. Philanthropist? Yes, but in the same way that Bin Laden is a philanthropist to those who protect him (maybe not as bad as that, but in the same vein).

BUT... Omar was a 15-yo kid in a compound attacked by US forces, whose life was threatened in an hours-long firefight that eventually resulted in the breaching of the compound wall by explosives, and an invasion of armed military personnel. To claim that the US soldier was murdered is ludicrous. It was a military operation operation, and the people inside the compound were justifiably afraid for their lives. It was not a police operation where they went up to the door and asked to enter.

To deny any prisoners taken there the benefits of the Geneva Convention is an embarrassment to the US (all of Gitmo is). To allow the evidence attained through torture to be used is in blatant violation of international law. To torture a 15-yo boy into confessing is just abhorrent.

And the fact that the Canadian government is fighting so hard to abdicate ITS responsibility to make sure its citizens are protected to the fullest extent of international law and conventions is simply sickening. There is nothing in this situation that any US or Canadian politician can be proud of.

Charlatan · 11-16-2009, 04:47 PM

I think it's pretty clear that he should be repatriated and given a fair trial back in Canada. He is a natural born Canadian citizen and should be treated as such regardless of his actions.

silent_jay · 11-16-2009, 05:41 PM

Mojo_PeiPei · 11-16-2009, 08:56 PM

Not to beat a dead horse, but I have a legitimate question, maybe somebody here can help me.

Silent Jay raises fair questions, as well as those about the Geneva Convention. So maybe one you international treaty buffs can help me out here.

Since by and large language from the Hague treaty seem to be the legal standing by which America has operated Gitmo and it's tribunals, how does this young chap fit the listing of an identified combatant, or how does the Geneva convention that would protect him, designate him?

IdeoFunk · 11-18-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreyWolf

There's little doubt that the Khadr family has some shady dealings with terrorists. Philanthropist? Yes, but in the same way that Bin Laden is a philanthropist to those who protect him (maybe not as bad as that, but in the same vein).

BUT... Omar was a 15-yo kid in a compound attacked by US forces, whose life was threatened in an hours-long firefight that eventually resulted in the breaching of the compound wall by explosives, and an invasion of armed military personnel. To claim that the US soldier was murdered is ludicrous. It was a military operation operation, and the people inside the compound were justifiably afraid for their lives. It was not a police operation where they went up to the door and asked to enter.

To deny any prisoners taken there the benefits of the Geneva Convention is an embarrassment to the US (all of Gitmo is). To allow the evidence attained through torture to be used is in blatant violation of international law. To torture a 15-yo boy into confessing is just abhorrent.

And the fact that the Canadian government is fighting so hard to abdicate ITS responsibility to make sure its citizens are protected to the fullest extent of international law and conventions is simply sickening. There is nothing in this situation that any US or Canadian politician can be proud of.

Ditto. The point I was making though was that a potentially huge driving force behind the prevailing Canadian-US attitude could be as a result of the kid's family. I'm definitely not saying that's right, I was just trying to get some further insight into Ahmed Khadr/HCI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by silent_jay

I just read an article in the National Post and found the funniest comment from another reader:

Now, what criminal act was committed is my big question, if it's the apparent act of killing a US soldier in a war zone, well that's just stupid, it's a war, the house Khadr was inside was attacked by US forces, as GreyWolf said it wasn't a police action to arrest anyone, it was a military operation, so to clam he was murdered is ludicrous. Using the logic that the soldier was murdered in a military operation, does that not mean that the combatants inside the house were murdered by US soldiers? Not to mention no one seems to have a clue who actually threw said grenade which killed said soldier.

Here's a link to the article, comments are below, they also seem to have a misunderstanding of the supporters of Khadr, they seem to think people like myself, Bob Rae, the NDP Party and the Liberal party was an unconditional release with no punishment at all, not too sure who's ass they pulled this from but I certainly haven't read that.

Kelly McParland: The one-sided world of Khadr coverage - Full Comment

Very interesting point you're making about criminal acts during wartime... but to me if the military did have proof that a militant was responsible for the deaths of one or several of its members they probably would have some avenue to pursue punishment, regardless of the fact that these things are inevitabilities in a war. I'm sure there's other cases of this which might be a little more black and white; I'll do some digging when I'm off work.

And as a quick aside, I personally wouldn't spend too much time worrying about comments you see on news websites... from my experience the overwhelming vast majority of people who weigh in on discussions have I.Q.s somewhere in the one-digit region.

silent_jay · 11-18-2009, 02:13 PM

Baraka_Guru · 01-30-2010, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Khadr ruling sees top court clash with Tories
In a 9-0 ruling, Canada's Supreme Court has found Canada and the U.S. violated the prosioner's rights

Kirk Makin

From Saturday's Globe and Mail Published on Friday, Jan. 29, 2010 8:42PM EST Last updated on Saturday, Jan. 30, 2010 9:19AM EST

A standoff between the Supreme Court of Canada and the federal government over the repatriation of Omar Khadr has thrust the country into uncharted constitutional waters.

In a 9-0 ruling, the court effectively dared the Harper government to ignore its finding that Canada and the United States are violating Mr. Khadr's right to life, liberty and security under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

The court denounced the use of sleep deprivation by his U.S. captors to soften up Mr. Khadr when he was a 15-year-old prisoner, and the government's participation in his interrogation, but stopped short of ordering the government to ask the U.S. to send him home.

It found that the rights violation continues because information obtained during illegal interrogations in 2003 and 2004 is still liable to be used against Mr. Khadr in U.S proceedings.

A government is expected to take action when the court rules it has violated someone's rights. The remedy requested by lawyers who brought the case to court on Mr. Khadr's behalf is that Ottawa bring their client home for trial. Past governments have not ignored strong declarations from the highest court in the land.

[Video of Khadr interrogation available on website.]

Yet a statement from Justice Minister Rob Nicholson Friday raised the possibility that the Harper government will refuse to act or that it will give a token response.

“The government is pleased that the Supreme Court has recognized the ‘constitutional responsibility of the executive to make decisions on matters of foreign affairs in the context of complex and ever-changing circumstances, taking into account Canada's broader interests,' ” Mr. Nicholson said.

He emphasized the gravity of the allegations against Mr. Khadr and noted that the Supreme Court overturned two lower court decisions by finding that the government is not required to ask for Mr. Khadr's return from the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay.

In an interview Friday, University of Toronto law professor Sujit Choudhry said the clash of court and government has reached historic proportions.

“It has taken the court where it has never gone before – into the legal black hole of Guantanamo Bay, and the murky world of security and intelligence co-operation between Canada and other countries in the post 9/11 world,” he said. “It has now thrown the issue back to the federal government, which must now act in compliance with the Charter,” Prof. Choudhry said.

He predicted that Mr. Khadr's lawyers will bring another court challenge if Ottawa leaves their client in U.S. hands.

Allan Hutchison, a law professor at York University's Osgoode Hall Law School, agreed that Mr. Khadr will have quick recourse if the Harper government flouts the Supreme Court's declaration.

“The Khadr people must use all available methods to shame the government into following a constitutionally sanctioned course of action,” he said.

The court refrained from issuing a direct order to repatriate Mr. Khadr, reasoning that the fluid state of terrorism proceedings dictates a cautious approach. It said that government officials have a much broader and more nuanced sense of foreign policy considerations and the details of Mr. Khadr's case.

But the court showed that a legal fist lies beneath its velvet glove. If the abuse of Mr. Khadr's rights is proven to be continuing, it warned that, “courts are empowered to make orders ensuring that the government's foreign affairs prerogative is exercised in accordance with the constitution.”

Advocates for Mr. Khadr were disappointed Friday, but took encouragement from the clear finding of a continuing rights violation.

The judges could scarcely have been tougher in their finding that Mr. Khadr was mistreated during interrogations in 2003 and 2004.

“Canadian officials questioned Mr. Khadr on matters that may have provided important evidence relating to his criminal proceedings, in circumstances where they knew that Mr. Khadr was being indefinitely detained, was a young person, and was alone during the interrogations,” they said.

“Interrogation of a youth to elicit statements about the most serious criminal charges – while detained in these conditions and without access to counsel and while knowing the fruits of the interrogations would be shared with the U.S. prosecutors – offends the most basic Canadian standards about the treatment of detained youth suspects.”

Since the information obtained in the interrogation sessions could still be used against Mr. Khadr in U.S proceedings, the court said, “the effect of the breaches cannot be said to have been spent.”

Mr. Khadr was severely wounded in a 2002 skirmish in which he is alleged to have thrown a grenade that killed a U.S. Special Forces medic. He was charged with murder and scheduled to go before a Guantanamo Bay military commission.

However, U.S. President Barack Obama effectively shut down the commission system this year. Mr. Khadr remains in Guantanamo.

Federal Court Judge James O'Reilly ruled last year that Canada was complicit in torture that included sleep deprivation and the use of a vicious dog.

The Federal Court of Appeal upheld the ruling by 2-1.

At the Supreme Court hearing in November, federal officials warned the judiciary not to create a foreign-policy nightmare by micromanaging sensitive situations abroad involving Canadians.

“The government has the right to decide what requests should be made, how they should be made, and when they should be made,” federal lawyer Robert Frater said. “The courts are not in the best position to do that.”

While Mr. Khadr faces life in prison if convicted, most legal observers believe that he would go free based on time already served if the Harper government agrees to bring him home for trial.

Khadr ruling sees top court clash with Tories - The Globe and Mail

Not only is this an interesting turn of events, but the timing is impeccable: just as Harper--with his newly stacked Senate--gears up his crime agenda.

How this will play out will largely determine Harper's ability to govern both domestically and in terms of international relations. It's one of several things now that could make or break his government.

Will Harper uphold the Charter, or will he continue as usual with this politicking?

GreyWolf · 01-30-2010, 09:06 AM

This is a disgusting and shameful decision for Canada. The cowardice of our Supreme Court is in full light with this. The decision was NOT IN ANYWAY about foreign policy... it was ENTIRELY ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS. And the court chose a simplistic illogic to avoid having to live up to its duty to enforce our laws.

I'm embarrassed to be a Canadian right now.

james t kirk · 01-30-2010, 10:49 AM

I still don't want him back here.

I don't care if he was a "child soldier" or whatever you want to call him. (I just call him a terrorist - keeps it simple - cause that's what he (and his entire family) is.) If Omar Khadr had not been captured that day, ask yourself where he would be right now. Would he be living in Canada, working here, contributing here, paying taxes, being part of Canadian society, or would he be continuing the fight on the side of the Islamists in Afghanistan and Pakistan killing Canadian and NATO soldiers?

He and his entire family renounced their citizenship as far as I am concerned the second they packed up and went over to the Afghanistan to fight with Al Qaeda against Canada and NATO. The entire Khadr family has open disdain for everything this country stands for. They have been very up front about that. The only reason that they are here is to have free health care for their other son Karim who was injured in a fire fight with NATO troops in Afghanistan where his father was killed.

Sometimes in life, you have to pick a side and live by the consequences of that decision.

The entire Kahdr family has made their choice. They stand with the Islamo Fascists of the world. As such, this is the price they pay for their allegiances.

I trust the Americans to handle the case of Omar Kahdr within the confines of their justice system.

Baraka_Guru · 01-30-2010, 11:27 AM

GreyWolf: I don't understand your response. You don't agree with the Supreme Court decision that Khadr's rights were violated? You don't think CSIS et al are bound by the Charter in this case, dealing with a Canadian citizen?

james t kirk: "What ifs" aren't very useful. They are an exercise of fantasy, especially at this point. I regard this case as more about upholding the Charter in a post-9/11 world. I regard it as how Canada's affairs reflect us as a nation, both to ourselves and abroad. We are in the minority in terms of how we handled our nationals who ended up in Guatanamo. I think this case deserves due process. Obama has shut down the commission. Khadr should be brought home to face justice here based on that alone, but unfortunately the case is made more complex by the fact that human rights violations are involved.

There is no longer any reason why Khadr should remain in U.S. custody. He should be extradited to Canada and held accountable to our own justice system. Justice in American hands has failed...miserably.

06-06-2007, 03:41 PM	#1 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	Bring Canadian Omar Khadr Home from Guatanamo? Now that he's in a kind of limbo in Gitmo, does Canada have a responsibility to bring Omar Khadr back? I think that at least on a legal level, it is essential that we do something. If the Americans cannot carry out what they think is justice, Canada must ensure that something gets done. What do you think? __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

06-06-2007, 04:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
Elphaba Deja Moo Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA	With the recent SCOTUS decisions, Bush's entire rationale of "war" justice is also in limbo. If Canada can exert the needed pressure to free Khadr, I would hope that they do so. We have a legal system that is very effective and sometimes even fair. I think it far superior to what Bush would have us submit to. __________________ "You can't ignore politics, no matter how much you'd like to." Molly Ivins - 1944-2007

06-06-2007, 04:50 PM	#3 (permalink)
fresnelly Functionally Appropriate Location: Toronto	I think bring him home is a no-brainer. Detaining someone and isolating them without meeting a standard of indictment is absurd. The real question is what to do with him once he's here. Is there any precedent for a citizen who fights for an opposing force? Regardless, I prefer the wheels of justice to turn transparently and not on a government's whim. __________________ Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

06-07-2007, 01:50 PM	#4 (permalink)
Demeter Psycho	He should be released and allowed to come home. Does anyone know of any petition or movement to do anything about his predicament. I've read about this, but sadly on my part, I haven't really looked into it as I should. If it were me, I'd sure as hell want people to be investigating and clamoring for justice. __________________ I am not bound to please thee with my answers. William Shakespeare

06-07-2007, 05:44 PM	#5 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	He should be released and asked to swim to safety. Really, I am against the war in Iraq and have been since day one. I don't hold with the US detention methods. Bush is a complete nutjob. Having said that, this kid is now damaged goods. His family (in Scarborough, part of Toronto) are pretty hard core Islamists. I wish he'd never gotten jailed to begin with, but now, honestly, he's more of a menace to Canada than when the US picked him up. I have no desire to see him back here. Maybe the Excited States can feed and clothe him until he explodes like the time-bomb he now is. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

06-17-2007, 04:43 PM	#6 (permalink)
percy Addict	Wasn't the reason he was detained was because he killed an American soldier? I would say even if he has Canadian citizenship, he was fighting in his other country in which I think he also is a citizen, so the Americans have first dibs on him.

04-24-2009, 08:43 AM	#9 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	... __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder Last edited by silent_jay; 02-10-2011 at 11:44 AM..

04-30-2009, 11:03 AM	#10 (permalink)
percy Addict	Bring him back, give him a trial, prove he was siding with terrorists and put him in a Canadian jail for the rest of his life and let Canadian taxpayers foot the bill. And the 15 year old bit. I was 15 once also and knew exactly what was right and wrong. And his mother speaking about the Canadian government, who control everything, and who can't be trusted,... maybe her good friend Osama bin Laden can give her a little moral support. And the fact that Canadians want him home because he is Canadian? Canadian Shamadian,...he was fighting in another country for a terrorist organization. He should have his citizenship pulled and deported.

04-30-2009, 11:24 AM	#11 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	percy, your opinion is against the majority of Canadians, and I think it goes beyond the simple fact that he's a Canadian. And you can't revoke the citizenship of or deport a natural-born citizen. Where are you going to deport him to? Cuba? Pakistan? The United States? That's a bit arbitrary, isn't it? I think the biggest issue is that he's been stuck in Gitmo, and we know what that entails. I think the core issue here is the travesty of justice surrounding that whole operation. I think what's at issue here is the rule of law. I think most Canadians support that same ideal. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot Last edited by Baraka_Guru; 04-30-2009 at 11:27 AM..

04-30-2009, 11:38 AM	#12 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	the canadian people need to sway the canadian gov't in the same way the australians did with david hicks. enough pressure, and the government will relent. its about the votes afterall. in saying that, why apply different rules to a minor in terrorism cases as opposed to anything else, including murder? a minor is a minor in my eyes and deserves a second chance. you must also remember that he grew up in an environment under the nfluence of his father and OBL. do people really expect him to rebel? the last i heard of him was seeing a video of him weeping calling out for his mother in an interrogation about a year ago. __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

05-07-2009, 09:59 PM	#13 (permalink)
vox_rox Psycho Location: Comfy Little Bungalow	It's not so simple, but we all know thee answer - he must come home. Having said that, we still have a few questions. firstly, did he kill an American soldier and, even if he did, would he have been considered a child combatant? recent findings show that the US evidence against him is bogus and, and he WAS 15 at the time. Secondly, he must be kept apart from his frickin' nut job family - my gawd, have you heard these people?! Still, on the face of it, he should be sent back to Canada, IMHO. Peace, Pierre __________________ --- There is no such thing as strong coffee - only weak people. ---

05-08-2009, 03:17 AM	#14 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	his family is about as normal as the Adams Family. didnt his older brother become an FBI informant and agreed to spy on other Gitmo prisoners and then bagged the US out after that when they dropped him off in the middle of nowhere in europe somewhere? whatever his family has done though, it's no excuse for him not to be repatriated. __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

05-14-2009, 07:01 PM	#17 (permalink)
james t kirk Junkie Location: Toronto	I don't give a fuck about Omar Khadr. He's hardly an innocent and I'm hardly going to be petitioning anyone on his behalf. Let him have his day in court and let system decide what is done with him.

05-14-2009, 08:24 PM	#18 (permalink)
CandleInTheDark Addict Location: Where the music's loudest	He will have his fair trial. It does not matter to me much whether that trial is conducted by the US or by Canada. __________________ Where there is doubt there is freedom.

07-15-2009, 10:08 AM	#20 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	It looks like Khadr's human rights may have been ignored by Canadian officials at the time of his interrogation by the U.S. CSIS ignored Khadr's human rights: report __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

11-13-2009, 04:27 PM	#21 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	... __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder Last edited by silent_jay; 02-10-2011 at 11:44 AM..

11-13-2009, 05:15 PM	#22 (permalink)
GreyWolf Sober Location: Eastern Canada	This whole situation is an embarrassment to Canadians. The abdication of responsibility of our government towards one of it's own citiziens is disgusting. __________________ *The secret to great marksmanship is deciding what the target was AFTER you've shot.*

11-13-2009, 05:37 PM	#23 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	... __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder Last edited by silent_jay; 02-10-2011 at 11:45 AM..

11-13-2009, 08:07 PM	#24 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	according to the latest news, Omar Khadr will be tried in a revamped military tribunal, whilst the masterminds of 911 will face civilian trials in NYC. 9/11 suspects to be tried in New York \| World News \| News.com.au that just doesnt make sense to me __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

11-13-2009, 08:18 PM	#25 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	None of this makes any kind of sense to anyone with even a passing familiarity with the justice system.

11-13-2009, 09:12 PM	#26 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	... __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder Last edited by silent_jay; 02-10-2011 at 11:45 AM..

11-14-2009, 06:00 AM	#27 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	And then there is the issue of deporting American war resisters, which goes against Parliamentary votes. It's clear Harper is playing politics, and he values staying on the good side of the American government and military despite the wishes of parliament, the judiciary, and the Canadian public (and despite the decisions of other members of the Commonwealth with regard to foreign nationals in Gitmo). I don't know why Harper would otherwise go against the grain on these matters. I hope this eventually becomes his undoing. We can only speculate what Chrétien or Martin would have done. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

11-14-2009, 09:50 AM	#28 (permalink)
GreyWolf Sober Location: Eastern Canada	Chrétien would have paid his cronies to look into ways of doing nothing. The cost would have been far more than $1.3 million. Martin would have taken a vacation in Europe, at cost of over $1 million. Both of those guys were so corrupt and inept their only legacy was to rehabilitate Brian Mulroney's image and make him look marginally competent. Their only real salvation has been that Harper is SO bad, they look slightly less crooked than they actually were. Imagine how good they'd look in comparison to Harper with a majority government!! __________________ *The secret to great marksmanship is deciding what the target was AFTER you've shot.*

11-14-2009, 10:27 AM	#29 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	... __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder Last edited by silent_jay; 02-10-2011 at 11:45 AM..

11-15-2009, 02:03 PM	#30 (permalink)
IdeoFunk Crazy Location: to	Seven years later and this kid is still in Gitmo... Well as plain and simple the absurdity surrounding Omar Khadr is I've only recently become familiar with the history of the Khadr family as a whole. To me, it seems like the Canada/US desire to keep the Omar Khadr case locked in purgatory is somewhat resultant of his father's "shady" past. I'm curious how those of you who know more about this than I view the life of Ahmed Khadr. It seems that the US-Canadian government has tried to paint him as a Islamic Extremist from the start, while on the other side people have said he was just a philanthropist who eventually found himself increasingly immersed in a hairy and hairy situation.... __________________ ...out here in the perimeter there are no stars...

11-15-2009, 02:50 PM	#31 (permalink)
GreyWolf Sober Location: Eastern Canada	There's little doubt that the Khadr family has some shady dealings with terrorists. Philanthropist? Yes, but in the same way that Bin Laden is a philanthropist to those who protect him (maybe not as bad as that, but in the same vein). BUT... Omar was a 15-yo kid in a compound attacked by US forces, whose life was threatened in an hours-long firefight that eventually resulted in the breaching of the compound wall by explosives, and an invasion of armed military personnel. To claim that the US soldier was murdered is ludicrous. It was a military operation operation, and the people inside the compound were justifiably afraid for their lives. It was not a police operation where they went up to the door and asked to enter. To deny any prisoners taken there the benefits of the Geneva Convention is an embarrassment to the US (all of Gitmo is). To allow the evidence attained through torture to be used is in blatant violation of international law. To torture a 15-yo boy into confessing is just abhorrent. And the fact that the Canadian government is fighting so hard to abdicate ITS responsibility to make sure its citizens are protected to the fullest extent of international law and conventions is simply sickening. There is nothing in this situation that any US or Canadian politician can be proud of. __________________ *The secret to great marksmanship is deciding what the target was AFTER you've shot.*

11-16-2009, 04:47 PM	#32 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I think it's pretty clear that he should be repatriated and given a fair trial back in Canada. He is a natural born Canadian citizen and should be treated as such regardless of his actions. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

11-16-2009, 05:41 PM	#33 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	... __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder Last edited by silent_jay; 02-10-2011 at 11:45 AM..

11-16-2009, 08:56 PM	#34 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Not to beat a dead horse, but I have a legitimate question, maybe somebody here can help me. Silent Jay raises fair questions, as well as those about the Geneva Convention. So maybe one you international treaty buffs can help me out here. Since by and large language from the Hague treaty seem to be the legal standing by which America has operated Gitmo and it's tribunals, how does this young chap fit the listing of an identified combatant, or how does the Geneva convention that would protect him, designate him? __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

11-18-2009, 02:13 PM	#36 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	... __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder Last edited by silent_jay; 02-10-2011 at 11:46 AM..

01-30-2010, 09:06 AM	#38 (permalink)
GreyWolf Sober Location: Eastern Canada	This is a disgusting and shameful decision for Canada. The cowardice of our Supreme Court is in full light with this. The decision was NOT IN ANYWAY about foreign policy... it was ENTIRELY ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS. And the court chose a simplistic illogic to avoid having to live up to its duty to enforce our laws. I'm embarrassed to be a Canadian right now. __________________ *The secret to great marksmanship is deciding what the target was AFTER you've shot.*

01-30-2010, 10:49 AM	#39 (permalink)
james t kirk Junkie Location: Toronto	I still don't want him back here. I don't care if he was a "child soldier" or whatever you want to call him. (I just call him a terrorist - keeps it simple - cause that's what he (and his entire family) is.) If Omar Khadr had not been captured that day, ask yourself where he would be right now. Would he be living in Canada, working here, contributing here, paying taxes, being part of Canadian society, or would he be continuing the fight on the side of the Islamists in Afghanistan and Pakistan killing Canadian and NATO soldiers? He and his entire family renounced their citizenship as far as I am concerned the second they packed up and went over to the Afghanistan to fight with Al Qaeda against Canada and NATO. The entire Khadr family has open disdain for everything this country stands for. They have been very up front about that. The only reason that they are here is to have free health care for their other son Karim who was injured in a fire fight with NATO troops in Afghanistan where his father was killed. Sometimes in life, you have to pick a side and live by the consequences of that decision. The entire Kahdr family has made their choice. They stand with the Islamo Fascists of the world. As such, this is the price they pay for their allegiances. I trust the Americans to handle the case of Omar Kahdr within the confines of their justice system. Last edited by james t kirk; 01-30-2010 at 10:52 AM..

01-30-2010, 11:27 AM	#40 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	GreyWolf: I don't understand your response. You don't agree with the Supreme Court decision that Khadr's rights were violated? You don't think CSIS et al are bound by the Charter in this case, dealing with a Canadian citizen? james t kirk: "What ifs" aren't very useful. They are an exercise of fantasy, especially at this point. I regard this case as more about upholding the Charter in a post-9/11 world. I regard it as how Canada's affairs reflect us as a nation, both to ourselves and abroad. We are in the minority in terms of how we handled our nationals who ended up in Guatanamo. I think this case deserves due process. Obama has shut down the commission. Khadr should be brought home to face justice here based on that alone, but unfortunately the case is made more complex by the fact that human rights violations are involved. There is no longer any reason why Khadr should remain in U.S. custody. He should be extradited to Canada and held accountable to our own justice system. Justice in American hands has failed...miserably. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot Last edited by Baraka_Guru; 01-30-2010 at 11:29 AM..