02-11-2007, 11:06 PM | #1 (permalink) | ||||||
Banned
|
Is the President Really the President, Or....?
I suspect that "the President" holds the office in name only, that Cheney is actually "running things", and that he has seriously miscalculated..... by permitting Scooter Libby to "go on trial" instead of sparing the office of the VP, and the VP himself, the exposure that the details of the prosecution's case, and the testimony have so far brought to public availability...versus insisting that Libby avoid a public trial via pursuit of a "plea deal".
No one can say for sure what the Libby trial, will end up costing both Cheney and Libby, but however much it costs them in time, lost opportunities to further whatever their ultimate goals were, unwanted media and public scrutiny, damage to reputaition, and possible criminal penalties, the total costs will be steeper and will diminish Cheney's power and influence, more than he could ever imagine, probably even this far into the unfolding of events that began with Cheney's decision to react to Joe Wilson's trip to Niger and Wilson's post 2003 SOTU comments to other diplomats, reporters, and finally in print. ....and, if Mr. Bush has been "president", in title only, for the past six years, who will replace Cheney if his current 18 percent approval rating is further eroded by information coming out of Libby's trial, or by disclosures gleaned from congressional investigations spearheaded by the new democratic majority? I'm asking these questions because the details in the following links influence me to believe that they are timely and appropriate things to wonder about: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070211/...cheney_s_world Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by host; 02-11-2007 at 11:23 PM.. |
||||||
02-12-2007, 07:52 AM | #2 (permalink) |
Asshole
Administrator
Location: Chicago
|
Host, I don't see how Cheney's approval rating will affect his ability to govern, if in fact that's what he's doing (I'm not quite ready to conceed that yet). Given that the Vice President is basically approval-proof since POTUS takes all the heat, I would think that it would be business as usual in the Veep's office regardless of approval.
If you have anything regarding any loss of actual clout, I'd love to hear that. It seems to me to be a truer measure of your point.
__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo |
02-12-2007, 05:32 PM | #3 (permalink) |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
|
There have been a number of instances in the last six years that Cheney has made executive decisions never seen before in another Vice President. It's not clear to me whether Cheney has assumed the position of the President, or that Bush has willingly ceded the responsibility.
I think the key question is whether Bush would abandon Cheney, if he proved to be a liability to the presidency, much like he refused to replace Rumsfeld. The chattering classes have been speculating that Cheney will resign due to "health" issues and that his replacement would be promoted as the next presidential candidate for 2008. A recent comment by the administration that there would be no formal backing of a Republican presidential candidate may add a bit of weight to the speculation. There has also been quite a bit of speculation that #41 and his seasoned previous staff have intervened in the direction that #43 has been going. I think that drove the resignation of Rumsfeld, and there may also be a concerted effort to remove Cheney. As Cheney's political and legal problems increase, so will Bush's willingness to allow him to "retire." Given that all this drama is going on in the background, I am at a loss as to who the administration would choose for a VP with presidential appeal. I think Lieberman may have hopes of this kind given his alignment with Bush, but I think he is deluded. McKain is now despised by many moderates and independents (myself included) that were impressed with him in the past. Guilianni is popular now, but he will not stand up to close scrutiny by the Republican base. Is there a wild card out there that I haven't considered?
__________________
"You can't ignore politics, no matter how much you'd like to." Molly Ivins - 1944-2007 |
02-13-2007, 05:37 PM | #4 (permalink) |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
|
I love it when the news answers my own question. Romney?
No presidential candidate would be wise to replace Cheney. My guess is it would one of #41's recommendations, as was Gates.
__________________
"You can't ignore politics, no matter how much you'd like to." Molly Ivins - 1944-2007 |
02-13-2007, 07:21 PM | #5 (permalink) |
Banned
|
Elphaba, as far as I'm concerned - you are the news, and you should be proud of yourself. Interesting options: Bush has either willingly conceded his position, or Cheney has given him the boot, and taken them from him.
That's a toughy - let me mosey my way over to the titty board and I'll get back to you, cause this is gonna take some serious consideration. |
02-13-2007, 08:04 PM | #6 (permalink) |
Location: Washington DC
|
Bush cant replace Cheney even if he wanted to unless Cheney wants to go. Unlike Rumsfeld, Cheney was elected not appointed.
The only person more instransigent than Bush is Cheney and the only circumstance under which he would ever possibly leave before the next election is if he is charged with a crime and threatened with impeachment. And even then, he is stubborn enough to fight it out, knowing that he has nothing to lose politically and his fighiting would have the support of the hard core 20% of the right that still support him. I think Bush has done the next best thing. He has marginalized Cheney with the appointments of Gates as Secy of Defense, Negroponte as Dep. Secy of State (recognizing that Condi Rice is in way over her head, completely ineffectual and making her simply a figurehead) and Mike McConnell as the Dir of National Intelligence - all three guys are Bush 41 guys and have no loyalties to Cheney. IMO, the conservative Repub looming in the shadows for '08, and the one the Dems would fear most, is Newt Gingrich.
__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 02-13-2007 at 08:08 PM.. |
02-13-2007, 08:44 PM | #7 (permalink) | ||
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"You can't ignore politics, no matter how much you'd like to." Molly Ivins - 1944-2007 Last edited by Elphaba; 02-13-2007 at 09:07 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
||
02-13-2007, 10:08 PM | #8 (permalink) |
Apocalypse Nerd
|
It has been my long held belief that since this Presidency is so incredibly secret -that when we speculate about it -we should only assume that the worst case possible is what is actually going on.
In fact if you remember -both Bush and Cheney's papers are going to be kept by them, under their control -after they leave office. What are they hiding? So let me see -is the worst case possible that Cheney is in charge? Cheney is pretty evil. Let me think -worst case scenario. Hmmm.... ..... No, the worst of all possible worlds is that Bush is actually in charge -divining his daily decisions from what he hears "god" say to him. |
02-14-2007, 06:21 AM | #9 (permalink) | |
Location: Washington DC
|
Quote:
But putting that aside, he has quietly working in the background buidling a grass roots network and giving speeches at neo-con think tanks in preparation for a re-emergence and the lackluster conservative candidates so far for 08 must have him salivating at the opportunity. He is like Bill Clinton in many ways. Among recent politicians, they are both heads above most others in the depth and breadth of knowledge on a wide range of policy issues and the uncanny ability to express that knowledge in a way that reaches beyond their respective bases and has broad appeal. Look at some of his recent speeches or articles on health care, education, transforming the economy, energy/environment - they go beyond the traditional neo-con rhetoric. Even his war position (supported taking out Saddam, but said Bush fucked it up by not installing our own puppet thug as a successor). And while, like both Clinton's, he has high negatives, he is also a consummate fundraiser and grass roots organizer. I shouldnt have said the Dems should fear him because I think Hillary, Edwards or Obama all can offer equally compelling policy positions to challange his new neo-consism. But I think he would be the most formidable opponent in the battle for the vast majority of Americans in the middle.
__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire |
|
02-14-2007, 09:27 AM | #11 (permalink) |
Insane
|
If voting could really change things, it would be illegal.
__________________
Blog One day there will be so many houses, that people will be bored and will go live in tents. "Why are you living in tents ? Are there not enough houses ?" "Yes there are, but we play this Economy game" |
02-14-2007, 10:02 AM | #12 (permalink) | |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
|
Quote:
__________________
"You can't ignore politics, no matter how much you'd like to." Molly Ivins - 1944-2007 |
|
02-14-2007, 10:10 AM | #13 (permalink) | |||||||
Banned
|
Quote:
...if I can steer it back....what , IYO, can this mean ?: <h2>Then:</h2> Quote:
http://www.talkleft.com/libby922cipamemo.pdf Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
<b>Can you argue that Libby's defense has been "so strong", that there is no need for Libby and Cheney to testify as to Libby's innocence and "integrity"?</b> |
|||||||
02-15-2007, 05:46 PM | #14 (permalink) | |
Apocalypse Nerd
|
Quote:
They probably don't want to testify because they don't want any more charges to be filed. If Cheney goes to court, it's another purgery charge for sure... If Libby testifies -it just seals his fate... or perhaps another charge. |
|
02-25-2007, 09:13 PM | #15 (permalink) | ||
Banned
|
Quote:
I think that both these articles convince me, even more, that Bush is the POTUS in title only, and that Cheney is closer to facing impeachment, or indictment, than at any time in his presidency.....even if Libby is acquitted this week, of all charges.... Quote:
|
||
02-27-2007, 08:20 AM | #16 (permalink) | ||
Banned
|
Dan Froomkin of WaPo is welcome on this thread....anytime....
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
02-27-2007, 09:53 AM | #17 (permalink) | |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
|
there are complications.
this is one of them: Quote:
if ahmadinejad falls, then what? his administration has been in considerable political trouble since the beginning of the year and the way in which he has been handling the nuclear program publicly/diplomatically has been at the center of it. that the bush people have been engaged in both the prepatory logistical movements and the public preparation for some kind of action against iran seems obvious--as is the co-dependent relationship between the bush moves and ahmadinejad in power. the "intelligence" gathering operation is also well underway, conducted with the level of precision and care we have all come to expect from this crew--with the result (indicated either above or in the other thread or both, i cant remember) that it has already been discredited---at least insofar as the nuclear program is concerned. the dick-waving over alleged iranian support (factions within the military) for shi'a militias in iraq is a potential counter-narrative, and the assignment of blame for such support as there is alleged to be to elements within the army (anonymous of course) rather than to the iranian government or military apparatus could be a device for protecting the planning/action in case ahmadinejad does fall. so i am not so sure what will happen. i think it is likely that ahmadinejad is not long for this world politically. if his government falls, it could put the bush squad in an awkward spot. so it would appear that they have an interest in keeping him in power, if the Big Show is the ultimate goal. but i am not so sure: i keep thinking that any military action against iran would be insane. if the bush squad did it, i am sure that the idea would be to use limited air strikes as the tactic. if the past is any guide, that would be THE plan--and anything (and everything) that would go wrong afterward would be chocked up to unintended consequences of the sort that caught the american planners by surprise, much in the way that the entire iraq war caught them by surprise. but an invasion of iran would make iraq and afghanistan look like picnics.
__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
|
02-27-2007, 10:48 AM | #19 (permalink) | ||||
Banned
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
||||
Tags |
president |
|
|