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Old 02-11-2007, 11:06 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Is the President Really the President, Or....?

I suspect that "the President" holds the office in name only, that Cheney is actually "running things", and that he has seriously miscalculated..... by permitting Scooter Libby to "go on trial" instead of sparing the office of the VP, and the VP himself, the exposure that the details of the prosecution's case, and the testimony have so far brought to public availability...versus insisting that Libby avoid a public trial via pursuit of a "plea deal".

No one can say for sure what the Libby trial, will end up costing both Cheney and Libby, but however much it costs them in time, lost opportunities to further whatever their ultimate goals were, unwanted media and public scrutiny, damage to reputaition, and possible criminal penalties, the total costs will be steeper and will diminish Cheney's power and influence, more than he could ever imagine, probably even this far into the unfolding of events that began with Cheney's decision to react to Joe Wilson's trip to Niger and Wilson's post 2003 SOTU comments to other diplomats, reporters, and finally in print.

....and, if Mr. Bush has been "president", in title only, for the past six years, who will replace Cheney if his current 18 percent approval rating is further eroded by information coming out of Libby's trial, or by disclosures gleaned from congressional investigations spearheaded by the new democratic majority?

I'm asking these questions because the details in the following links influence me to believe that they are timely and appropriate things to wonder about:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070211/...cheney_s_world
Quote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/we...ew&oref=slogin
Cheney’s To-Do Lists, Then and Now

....In 2003, for instance, Mr. Cheney was not protecting secrets but authorizing Mr. Libby to peddle them to Judith Miller, then a reporter for The Times, in an effort to counter the points made in the opinion article, according to Mr. Libby’s grand jury testimony. But his combative relationship with the press and the goals that animate it have not changed.

“He’s had the same idea for the past 30 years,” said Kathryn S. Olmsted, a history professor at the University of California at Davis, who wrote about the Cheney file in her 1996 book, “Challenging the Secret Government.”

<b>“His philosophy is that the president and the vice president and the people around the president decide what’s secret and what’s not,” she said.</b> “They thought they had to aggressively go after the press and Congress to reclaim the powers the president lost in Watergate.”.....
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...cle2132569.ece

Quote:
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/plumbook/20..._appendix5.pdf

....The Vice Presidency is a unique office that is neither a part of the executive branch nor a part of the legislative branch, but is attached by the Constitution to the latter. The Vice Presidency performs functions in both the legislative branch (see article I, section 3 of the Constitution) and in the executive branch (see article II, and amendments XII and XXV, of the Constitution, and section 106 of title 3 of the United States Code)......
Quote:
http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?...rticleId=11926
See Dick Run (the Country)
Cheney's the real president. It'd be nice if the press noticed.

By Robert Kuttner
Web Exclusive: 08.28.06

.....If Cheney were the president, more of this would be smoked out because the press would be paying attention. The New York Times' acerbic columnist Maureen Dowd regularly makes sport of Cheney's dominance, and there are plenty of jokes (Bush is a heartbeat away from the presidency). But you can count serious newspaper or magazine articles on Cheney's operation on the fingers of one hand. One of the first was by Bob Dreyfuss writing in the Prospect -- "Vice Squad," on all the vice-president's men, which ran in our May issue. Another notable example is Charlie Savage's important May 28th piece in The Boston Globe on Cheney operative David Addington, the architect and chief reviewer of legislation for "signing statements." The most comprehensive was Jane Mayer's fine piece in the July 3 New Yorker on Addington.

Cheney's power is matched only by his penchant for secrecy. When Dreyfuss requested the names of people who serve on the vice president's staff, he was told this was classified information. Former staffers for other departments provided Dreyfuss with names. This journalism requires a lot of hard work, but it is gettable because so many people in government have been sandbagged by the Cheney operation and are willing to provide information.

So secretive is Cheney (and so incurious the media) that when his chief of staff, Irving Lewis Libby, was implicated in the leaked identity of CIA agent Valerie Plame Wilson, reporters who rushed to look Libby up on Nexis and Google found that Libby had barely rated previous press attention.

<b>Why does this matter? Because if the man actually running the government is out of the spotlight, the administration and its policies are far less accountable. ......</b>
Quote:
http://www.lebanonwire.com/0503/05030201FP.asp

......Cheney has had the largest national security staff of any vice president in U.S. history—one larger than President John F. Kennedy’s entire NSC staff at one time. He also has a network of close associates that extend throughout the government and who report to him or to Lewis “Scooter” Libby, his chief of staff, whose rank (assistant to the president) is technically equivalent to the national security advisor’s. Estimates of the total number of staffers, consultants, and those seconded from other agencies to the vice president’s office to work on national security-related issues have ranged from 15 to 35; it’s impossible to know for sure, as the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act do not cover the Office of the Vice President, and therefore it does not need to disclose details of its operation........
Quote:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/fea...701.rozen.html

....First stop, Cheney’s office itself and its extraordinarily large staff, presided over by Cheney’s Cheney, chief counsel turned chief of staff David Addington, who replaced “Scooter” Libby following Libby’s indictment in the Valerie Plame investigation. “A friend of mine counted noses [at the office] and came away with 88. That doesn’t count others seconded from other agencies,” said Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, previously chief of staff to former secretary of state Colin Powell. Wilkerson’s source also noted a National Security Council staff of 212, instead of the usual 110 to 150. The build-up signals Cheney’s desire to consolidate power in the White House—where, not incidentally, it’s harder for Congress and the press to pry. (When I inquired about a staffer’s rumored move to the Veep’s office, a Cheney press officer answered sweetly, “If we have a personnel announcement we’d like you to know about, we’ll tell you.”)....
Quote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070211/ts_nm/iraq3_dc
.....The three defense officials spoke on condition they not be identified....

Last edited by host; 02-11-2007 at 11:23 PM..
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Old 02-12-2007, 07:52 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Host, I don't see how Cheney's approval rating will affect his ability to govern, if in fact that's what he's doing (I'm not quite ready to conceed that yet). Given that the Vice President is basically approval-proof since POTUS takes all the heat, I would think that it would be business as usual in the Veep's office regardless of approval.

If you have anything regarding any loss of actual clout, I'd love to hear that. It seems to me to be a truer measure of your point.
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Old 02-12-2007, 05:32 PM   #3 (permalink)
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There have been a number of instances in the last six years that Cheney has made executive decisions never seen before in another Vice President. It's not clear to me whether Cheney has assumed the position of the President, or that Bush has willingly ceded the responsibility.

I think the key question is whether Bush would abandon Cheney, if he proved to be a liability to the presidency, much like he refused to replace Rumsfeld. The chattering classes have been speculating that Cheney will resign due to "health" issues and that his replacement would be promoted as the next presidential candidate for 2008. A recent comment by the administration that there would be no formal backing of a Republican presidential candidate may add a bit of weight to the speculation.

There has also been quite a bit of speculation that #41 and his seasoned previous staff have intervened in the direction that #43 has been going. I think that drove the resignation of Rumsfeld, and there may also be a concerted effort to remove Cheney. As Cheney's political and legal problems increase, so will Bush's willingness to allow him to "retire."

Given that all this drama is going on in the background, I am at a loss as to who the administration would choose for a VP with presidential appeal. I think Lieberman may have hopes of this kind given his alignment with Bush, but I think he is deluded. McKain is now despised by many moderates and independents (myself included) that were impressed with him in the past. Guilianni is popular now, but he will not stand up to close scrutiny by the Republican base.

Is there a wild card out there that I haven't considered?
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Old 02-13-2007, 05:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I love it when the news answers my own question. Romney?

No presidential candidate would be wise to replace Cheney. My guess is it would one of #41's recommendations, as was Gates.
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Old 02-13-2007, 07:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Elphaba, as far as I'm concerned - you are the news, and you should be proud of yourself. Interesting options: Bush has either willingly conceded his position, or Cheney has given him the boot, and taken them from him.

That's a toughy - let me mosey my way over to the titty board and I'll get back to you, cause this is gonna take some serious consideration.
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Old 02-13-2007, 08:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Bush cant replace Cheney even if he wanted to unless Cheney wants to go. Unlike Rumsfeld, Cheney was elected not appointed.

The only person more instransigent than Bush is Cheney and the only circumstance under which he would ever possibly leave before the next election is if he is charged with a crime and threatened with impeachment. And even then, he is stubborn enough to fight it out, knowing that he has nothing to lose politically and his fighiting would have the support of the hard core 20% of the right that still support him.

I think Bush has done the next best thing. He has marginalized Cheney with the appointments of Gates as Secy of Defense, Negroponte as Dep. Secy of State (recognizing that Condi Rice is in way over her head, completely ineffectual and making her simply a figurehead) and Mike McConnell as the Dir of National Intelligence - all three guys are Bush 41 guys and have no loyalties to Cheney.

IMO, the conservative Repub looming in the shadows for '08, and the one the Dems would fear most, is Newt Gingrich.
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Old 02-13-2007, 08:44 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthew330
Elphaba, as far as I'm concerned - you are the news, and you should be proud of yourself. Interesting options: Bush has either willingly conceded his position, or Cheney has given him the boot, and taken them from him.

That's a toughy - let me mosey my way over to the titty board and I'll get back to you, cause this is gonna take some serious consideration.
Matthew, there is something going on with you that might be best handled via pm, rather than a threadjack. Your issues with me really don't need to be played out within a topic, not of your making.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_dux
IMO, the conservative Repub looming in the shadows for '08, and the one the Dems would fear most, is Newt Gingrich.
dc, why do you believe that Dems should fear Newt? I would think the GOP would fear Newt running for president. His heavy handed behavior as Speaker cost the GOP another four years of Clinton, in my opinion.
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Last edited by Elphaba; 02-13-2007 at 09:07 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 02-13-2007, 10:08 PM   #8 (permalink)
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It has been my long held belief that since this Presidency is so incredibly secret -that when we speculate about it -we should only assume that the worst case possible is what is actually going on.

In fact if you remember -both Bush and Cheney's papers are going to be kept by them, under their control -after they leave office. What are they hiding?

So let me see -is the worst case possible that Cheney is in charge? Cheney is pretty evil. Let me think -worst case scenario. Hmmm....
.....

No, the worst of all possible worlds is that Bush is actually in charge -divining his daily decisions from what he hears "god" say to him.
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Old 02-14-2007, 06:21 AM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
dc, why do you believe that Dems should fear Newt? I would think the GOP would fear Newt running for president. His heavy handed behavior as Speaker cost the GOP another four years of Clinton, in my opinion.
Elph..I think Newt's behavior cost him his short-term political future but had nothing to do with Clinton getting a second term.

But putting that aside, he has quietly working in the background buidling a grass roots network and giving speeches at neo-con think tanks in preparation for a re-emergence and the lackluster conservative candidates so far for 08 must have him salivating at the opportunity.

He is like Bill Clinton in many ways. Among recent politicians, they are both heads above most others in the depth and breadth of knowledge on a wide range of policy issues and the uncanny ability to express that knowledge in a way that reaches beyond their respective bases and has broad appeal.

Look at some of his recent speeches or articles on health care, education, transforming the economy, energy/environment - they go beyond the traditional neo-con rhetoric. Even his war position (supported taking out Saddam, but said Bush fucked it up by not installing our own puppet thug as a successor).

And while, like both Clinton's, he has high negatives, he is also a consummate fundraiser and grass roots organizer.

I shouldnt have said the Dems should fear him because I think Hillary, Edwards or Obama all can offer equally compelling policy positions to challange his new neo-consism. But I think he would be the most formidable opponent in the battle for the vast majority of Americans in the middle.
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Old 02-14-2007, 07:29 AM   #10 (permalink)
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dc, you really think Americans are ready for a president who shares a name with a reptile?
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Old 02-14-2007, 09:27 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Old 02-14-2007, 10:02 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loquitur
dc, you really think Americans are ready for a president who shares a name with a reptile?
...and sounds like a Muppet?
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Old 02-14-2007, 10:10 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loquitur
dc, you really think Americans are ready for a president who shares a name with a reptile?
thanks for the now blatant " ' jack" of the thread, guys.....

...if I can steer it back....what , IYO, can this mean ?:

<h2>Then:</h2>
Quote:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0060622-8.html
For Immediate Release
Office of the Vice President
June 22, 2006

Interview of the Vice President by John King, CNN
The Vice President's Residence

....Q I want to bring you to some domestic issues here at home. I have spent a fair amount of time in recent months in court with your former chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, who, of course, is charged in the CIA leak investigation. One of the things that his defense has introduced as evidence is this -- it's a copy of this New York Times article that started all this, by Ambassador Joe Wilson -- and these scribbles are allegedly yours. Is that a fact?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: John, I am not going to comment on the case. It's -- I may be called as a witness. <b>Scooter Libby, obviously, one of the finest men I've ever known -- he's entitled to the presumption of innocence. And I have not made any comments on the case up until now, and I won't.</b>

<h3>["host" asks: By vouching so firmly for Libby....the quote has been on the whitehouse.gov site for almost eight months....didn't "shadow president" Cheney, disingenuously break his "vow", not to "[make] any comments on the case up until now" ??]</h3>

Q Let me ask you one question, one more question about that then. You said you may be called as a witness. The President urged everyone very early on to cooperate in this investigation, does that mean that if you are called as a witness that the administration would under no circumstances cite any privileges, either to shield you from testifying about certain issues or protect certain documents, or anything?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, you're getting into hypothetical now, and I'm not able to answer that. We have cooperated fully with the investigation from day one. .......
Link to Libby's court filing, described in "LIBBY PLANS TO TESTIFY", story below:
http://www.talkleft.com/libby922cipamemo.pdf
Quote:
http://www.townhall.com/News/NewsArt...c-8b9882287edd
<b>Libby Plans to Testify in CIA Leak Trial</b>

Friday, September 22, 2006

Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff plans to take the stand at his upcoming trial to tell jurors that he never lied to investigators in the CIA leak case, defense attorneys said Friday.

I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby is charged with perjury, obstruction and lying to the FBI about his conversations in 2003 with reporters regarding Valerie Plame's CIA job.


Former White House aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, leaves federal court in Washington in this May 16, 2006 file photo. A federal judge handed a victory to the defense in the Valerie Plame case, siding with Vice President Dick Cheney's indicted former chief of staff in a fight over release of classified information. (AP Photo/Haraz N. Ghanbari, File)

Libby plans to testify about President Bush's daily terrorism briefings and other classified information to persuade jurors that he had more important things on his mind at the time and didn't remember his discussions with reporters, attorneys said in court papers filed Friday evening.

"Mr. Libby must be able to discuss classified information to give the jury an accurate picture of his state of mind during the relevant time period and to show the jury that any errors he made in his statements and testimony were the product of confusion, mistake and faulty memory rather than deliberate misrepresentations," defense attorneys wrote.

The documents were filed as part of Libby's bid to use classified information at his trial in January. Defense attorneys plan to use a digital slide show to present material to jurors, according to court papers.

Prosecutors oppose the use of many documents, saying Libby is trying to torpedo the case by demanding information that is too sensitive to be released at trial. The tactic they described, known as "graymail," is used to get a case dismissed.....
<h2>Now:</h2>
Quote:
http://news.google.com/nwshp?ie=UTF-...cheney%20wells
Libby, Cheney will not testify, lawyer says
Buffalo News, NY - 3 hours ago
Wells said he planned to finish presenting evidence in the case as soon as today. The decision to not call Libby and Cheney means an abrupt end to the trial ...
Libby, Cheney won't testify in perjury trial Chicago Tribune
Libby, Cheney won't testify at leak trial Minneapolis Star Tribune (subscription)
Libby, Cheney will stay off the stand Los Angeles Times
Chicago Sun-Times - Guardian Unlimited
all 658 news articles »....
IMO, Mr. Cheney will not testify on behalf of <b>"one of the finest men I've ever known"</b>, for the same reason that Mr. Libby will not testify in his own defense, because both now know that the majority of us know, (including Libby's criminal trial jury....) that they intentionally committed a traitorous act....during a "time of war", by deliberately "outing" a CIA employee who worked for the Agency's covert Directorate of Operations....disclosing classified information....her name and the circumstances of her employment at CIA, resulting in the compromise of her "cover", and the shutdown of her CIA "front" company, Brewster Jennings.....
Quote:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,107027,00.html
Raw Data: Statement by James Comey

Tuesday, December 30, 2003

A text of Deputy Attorney General James Comey on Attorney General John Ashcroft's decision to recuse himself from the CIA leak investigation Tuesday as transcribed by eMediaMillWorks Inc.:

COMEY: Good afternoon, folks. I'm joined behind the podium by Assistant Attorney General Christopher Wray. <b>We are here to announce a couple of procedural developments in the investigation into allegations that the identity of a CIA employee was improperly disclosed to the media last July.</b>

The first development is that, effective today, the attorney general has recused himself and his office staff from further involvement in this matter.....

.....<b>QUESTION: President Bush said soon after the leak story broke that he wasn't sure that the leaker would ever be caught.</b> I know you can't talk about specific suspects that you may be narrowing in on, but in general are you confident that this case is going to result in a prosecution?

COMEY: That's not a characterization I could make. I wouldn't do it about any cases, but I'm not going to do about this case.

All I can tell you is that I'm confident that the facts will be found professionally, and that the judgments will be made by someone with impeccable judgment and impartiality, and that is Mr. Fitzgerald........
Quote:
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/do...er_30_2003.pdf
December 30, 2003
The Honorable Patrick J. Fitzgerald
United States Attorney
219 S. Dearborn Street
Chicago, IL 60604
Dear Patrick,
By the authority vested in the Attorney General by law, including 28 U. S .C. §§ 509, 510,
and 515, and in my capacity as Acting Attorney General pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 508, <b>I hereby
delegate to you all the authority of the Attorney General with respect to the Department's
investigation into the alleged unauthorized disclosure of a CIA employee's identity,</b> and I direct
you to exercise that authority as Special Counsel independent of the supervision or control of any
officer of the Department.
/s/ James B. Comey
James B. Comey
Acting Attorney General
Quote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11179719/site/newsweek/

Newsweek

Feb. 13, 2006 issue - Newly released court papers could put holes in the defense of Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, in the Valerie Plame leak case. Lawyers for Libby, and White House allies, have repeatedly questioned whether Plame, the wife of White House critic Joe Wilson, really had covert status when she was outed to the media in July 2003. But special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald found that Plame had indeed done "covert work overseas" on counterproliferation matters in the past five years, and the CIA "was making specific efforts to conceal" her identity, according to newly released portions of a judge's opinion. (A CIA spokesman at the time is quoted as saying Plame was "unlikely" to take further trips overseas, though.) Fitzgerald concluded he could not charge Libby for violating a 1982 law banning the outing of a covert CIA agent; apparently he lacked proof Libby was aware of her covert status when he talked about her three times with New York Times reporter Judith Miller. Fitzgerald did consider charging Libby with violating the so-called Espionage Act, which prohibits the disclosure of "national defense information," the papers show; he ended up indicting Libby for lying about when and from whom he learned about Plame.

The new papers show Libby testified he was told about Plame by Cheney "in an off sort of curiosity sort of fashion" in mid-June—before he talked about her with Miller and Time magazine's Matt Cooper. Libby's trial has been put off until January 2007, keeping Cheney off the witness stand until after the elections. A spokeswoman for Libby's lawyers declined to comment on Plame's status.

—Michael Isikoff
....and Libby did this on Cheney's orders....to send a message to anyone else who might think about discreditng Cheney....a message that it would be, at minimum, a career ending move to fuck with Cheney.

<b>Can you argue that Libby's defense has been "so strong", that there is no need for Libby and Cheney to testify as to Libby's innocence and "integrity"?</b>
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Old 02-15-2007, 05:46 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by host
<b>Can you argue that Libby's defense has been "so strong", that there is no need for Libby and Cheney to testify as to Libby's innocence and "integrity"?</b>
Um, this is way off topic but since you asked.

They probably don't want to testify because they don't want any more charges to be filed. If Cheney goes to court, it's another purgery charge for sure... If Libby testifies -it just seals his fate... or perhaps another charge.
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Old 02-25-2007, 09:13 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t...990.html&cid=0
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Friday, February 23, 2007; 12:46 PM

Vice President Cheney is going out of his way to make it clear that he doesn't think he has anything to apologize for.

In an unprecedented display of public verbosity from the typically taciturn vice president, Cheney spoke for the second time in three days with ABC News reporter Jonathan Karl. During today's 22-minute interview in a Sydney restaurant, Cheney showed no sign of backing down from controversy.......
The preceding article is long, but it is a great description of where Cheney has come from, and where he is today.....

I think that both these articles convince me, even more, that Bush is the POTUS in title only, and that Cheney is closer to facing impeachment, or indictment, than at any time in his presidency.....even if Libby is acquitted this week, of all charges....
Quote:
http://online.wsj.com/public/article..._20080221.html
Politics Meets Intelligence at Trial
Libby Case Feeds
Calls for Study
On Use of Findings
By EVAN PEREZ and JAY SOLOMON
February 22, 2007; Page A8

WASHINGTON -- As jurors began deliberating the fate of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, one outcome of his perjury trial seemed clear: The case has added fuel to calls for a broader examination of how intelligence was used in political arguments in the past six years.

Moreover, some current and former administration officials say, the trial's airing of the use of intelligence -- especially over the Iraq war -- threatens to further undermine confidence in American claims on other sensitive matters. That could be a particular problem in the U.S. campaign to convince the world to curb Iran's nuclear program.

The Libby trial, which focused on efforts to leak classified information to the press, comes amid revived debate over intelligence in the newly Democratic Congress. Senate and House Democrats are pursuing new inquiries after a recent Defense Department Inspector General's report criticized the pre-war Pentagon intelligence program run by former Defense Undersecretary Douglas J. Feith.

Already, the Senate Intelligence Committee has requested documents and interview transcripts from the Inspector General's office, while the Senate Armed Services Committee seeks further interviews with Mr. Libby, the former chief of staff for Vice President Dick Cheney, and National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley. "The bottom line is that the intelligence relating to the Iraq-al Qaeda relationship was manipulated by high-ranking officials in the Department of Defense to support the administration's decision to invade Iraq," committee Chairman Carl Levin (D., Mich.) said at recent hearing.

The Libby trial put an especially bright spotlight on the debate.
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Old 02-27-2007, 08:20 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Dan Froomkin of WaPo is welcome on this thread....anytime....
Quote:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...022600635.html
The Omnipresent Vice President

By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Monday, February 26, 2007; 2:28 PM

President Bush has all but vanished from the national and international radar. But Vice President Cheney is everywhere and in the thick of it all.

His credibility may be shot, he and his boss may be lame ducks, his signal achievement -- the war in Iraq -- may now be almost universally disparaged, his former chief of staff may soon be found guilty of multiple felonies, but it would appear that rumors of the vice president's demise as a political force have been greatly exaggerated.

Consider the following:

* Cheney's latest stops on a highly-publicized world tour have been in Pakistan and Afghanistan, where he is said to be belatedly but forcefully pressing government leaders to be more aggressive in hunting down Al Qaeda operatives.

* Since the British announcement of a troop withdrawal from Iraq last week, Cheney has been the administration's point man in a fervid but inevitably fruitless attempt to spin that as a sign of success.

* Cheney has also become the foremost defender of the administration's Iraqi policy in general -- though in doing so he has further fueled criticisms that his assertions are often unsupported and sometimes misleading.

* In an interview on Friday, Cheney defended his assertion in 1991 that invading Iraq would result in a quagmire -- reopening speculation about what Cheney and Bush knew before they went to war in Iraq, what they told the American people, and the gulf between the two.

* Last week, Cheney suddenly spoke in highly critical terms about China, scolding it for behaviour he called "not consistent" with its stated aim of a peaceful rise as a global power.

* Even as I write, Cheney's former chief of staff if awaiting his fate at Washington's federal courthouse, and the verdict -- whichever way it goes -- will inevitably remind the public of Cheney's important and unseemly role in the leaking of a CIA operative's identity. (One juror was dismissed from the jury today, after being exposed to some sort of outside information about the case.)

* And then there's Iran. The reports that Bush is gearing up for strikes against that country may be ambiguous and speculative -- but there appears to be little doubt that Cheney is the lead hawk pushing for a more aggressive posture.
Cheney Delivers a Message.....
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A Prediction

Michael T. Klare writes for TomDispatch.com: "Sometime this spring or summer, barring an unexpected turnaround by Tehran, President Bush is likely to go on national television and announce that he has ordered American ships and aircraft to strike at military targets inside Iran. We must still sit through several months of soap opera at the United Nations in New York and assorted foreign capitals before this comes to pass, and it is always possible that a diplomatic breakthrough will occur -- let it be so! -- but I am convinced that Bush has already decided an attack is his only option and the rest is a charade he must go through to satisfy his European allies. The proof of this, I believe, lies half-hidden in recent public statements of his, which, if pieced together, provide a casus belli, or formal list of justifications, for going to war."
Disaster Drill

Jennifer Loven writes for the Associated Press: "Dozens of high-level officials joined in a White House drill yesterday to see how the government would respond if several cities were attacked simultaneously with bombs similar to those used against U.S. troops in Iraq. . . .

"President Bush went on a bike ride yesterday morning and did not take part in the test.".....
.....or....is Cheney just doing Bush's bidding.....telling Musharraf in no uncertain terms.....<b>Listen....we let you slide, buddy....we looked the other way while you played both sides.....we even acquiesced to your signing an agreement with warlords in your remote provinces that amounted to a "hands off" approach by the Pakistani army to al Qaeda organizing and recruiting in those Afghani border regions.....but....now that the "democrats are in"....they'll take a tough line against our "pay you for doing nothing" policy of the last five years....so you better watch out!</b>
Quote:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,254599,00.html
Cheney Warns Musharraf Al Qaeda Regrouping in Pakistan

Monday, February 26, 2007

.....The New York Times, citing unnamed sources, reported Monday that President Bush has decided to send a tough message to Musharraf, warning him that the Democrat-controlled Congress may cut off funding to Pakistan unless it gets more aggressive in hunting down Al Qaeda and Taliban operatives in its country.......
.....sheesh....why do I get the feeling that nothing will dislodge the remnants of the Bush/Cheney "base". I thought that Cheney told us that voting for demcrats would insure that we would "get hit.....again".
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Old 02-27-2007, 09:53 AM   #17 (permalink)
 
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there are complications.
this is one of them:

Quote:
Ahmadinejad under fire in Iran for hardline nuclear stance

· Newspapers criticise 'no reverse gear' remark
· US and Britain begin push for tougher sanctions
Robert Tait in Tehran and Ian Black
Tuesday February 27, 2007


Guardian
Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, came under fire from domestic critics yesterday for his uncompromising stance on the nuclear issue as the US and Britain launched a new diplomatic effort to agree harsher UN sanctions they hope will force Tehran to halt uranium enrichment.

Mohammad Atrianfar, a respected political commentator, accused the president of using "the language of the bazaar" and said his comments had made it harder for Ali Larijani, the country's top nuclear negotiator, to reach a compromise with European diplomats.

The president made global headlines at the weekend by declaring that his country's quest for nuclear energy was an unstoppable train, adding to the sense of crisis as emergency talks got under way in London yesterday.

Critics from across the Iranian political spectrum took him to task for his "no brakes or reverse gear" remarks, bolstering claims in the west that his hardline position may be starting to backfire.

"This rhetoric is not suitable for a president and has no place in diplomatic circles," said Mr Atrianfar, a confidant of Hashemi Rafsanjani, an influential regime insider and rival of Mr Ahmadinejad. "It is the language people in the bazaar and alleyways use to address the simplest issues of life."

Fayaz Zahed, leader of the pro-reform Islamic Iran Solidarity party, criticised the president for seeking to emulate the populist Venezuelan president, Hugo Chavez, rather than internationally revered leaders such as Nelson Mandela or Vaclav Havel.

"The brake exists to get the train safely to its destination," Mr Zahed wrote in the newspaper Etemad-e Melli. "Perhaps on the journey, we might find the track broken and are obliged to move our passengers by using the reverse gear to get to a safer track. Iran is a nation of earthquakes, flood and national disasters! You are our head. We should be able to trust you."

Even the fundamentalist newspaper Resalat, usually a supporter of Mr Ahmadinejad, was critical. "Neither weakness nor inexperience and unnecessary rhetorical aggression is acceptable in our foreign policy," it said.

In London, the Foreign Office's political director, John Sawers, was talking to colleagues from the US, France, Russia, China - the other four permanent members of the UN security council - and Germany, holder of the EU's rotating presidency. The meeting was described as "a productive first session" by the Foreign Office.

The US and Britain are pushing for tougher financial and trade sanctions on Iran but will have to work hard to overcome objections from Russia and China before they can be codified into a new UN resolution.

The US representative, Nicholas Burns, the undersecretary of state, has been stressing Washington's commitment to diplomacy to resolve the crisis, in contrast to the continuing refusal of the White House to rule out military action.

Sergei Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, underlined Moscow's unease when he criticised the US for talk of using force.

"Forecasts and suggestions about a strike on Iran have become more frequent and this is worrying," he was quoted as telling President Vladimir Putin.

A UN resolution in December barred the transfer of technology and know-how to Iran's nuclear and missile programme. New measures could include travel bans and asset freezes on individuals and organisations involved in them. Trade sanctions, including a ban on EU export credits, would be harder to agree.

The foreign secretary, Margaret Beckett, said Iran was treading a "dangerous route" but the west still wanted to negotiate. "The steps that we have taken are reversible. There is nothing that we would like better than to be able to reverse them and no longer to have to continue with sanctions," she said in Islamabad.
source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,2022029,00.html

if ahmadinejad falls, then what?
his administration has been in considerable political trouble since the beginning of the year and the way in which he has been handling the nuclear program publicly/diplomatically has been at the center of it.

that the bush people have been engaged in both the prepatory logistical movements and the public preparation for some kind of action against iran seems obvious--as is the co-dependent relationship between the bush moves and ahmadinejad in power.

the "intelligence" gathering operation is also well underway, conducted with the level of precision and care we have all come to expect from this crew--with the result (indicated either above or in the other thread or both, i cant remember) that it has already been discredited---at least insofar as the nuclear program is concerned.

the dick-waving over alleged iranian support (factions within the military) for shi'a militias in iraq is a potential counter-narrative, and the assignment of blame for such support as there is alleged to be to elements within the army (anonymous of course) rather than to the iranian government or military apparatus could be a device for protecting the planning/action in case ahmadinejad does fall.

so i am not so sure what will happen.
i think it is likely that ahmadinejad is not long for this world politically. if his government falls, it could put the bush squad in an awkward spot. so it would appear that they have an interest in keeping him in power, if the Big Show is the ultimate goal.

but i am not so sure: i keep thinking that any military action against iran would be insane.
if the bush squad did it, i am sure that the idea would be to use limited air strikes as the tactic. if the past is any guide, that would be THE plan--and anything (and everything) that would go wrong afterward would be chocked up to unintended consequences of the sort that caught the american planners by surprise, much in the way that the entire iraq war caught them by surprise.

but an invasion of iran would make iraq and afghanistan look like picnics.
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Old 02-27-2007, 09:59 AM   #18 (permalink)
 
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Last edited by roachboy; 02-27-2007 at 10:36 AM..
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Old 02-27-2007, 10:48 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roachboy
......that the bush people have been engaged in both the prepatory logistical movements and the public preparation for some kind of action against iran seems obvious--as is the co-dependent relationship between the bush moves and ahmadinejad in power.

the "intelligence" gathering operation is also well underway, conducted with the level of precision and care we have all come to expect from this crew--with the result (indicated either above or in the other thread or both, i cant remember) that it has already been discredited---at least insofar as the nuclear program is concerned.

the dick-waving over alleged iranian support (factions within the military) for shi'a militias in iraq is a potential counter-narrative, and the assignment of blame for such support as there is alleged to be to elements within the army (anonymous of course) rather than to the iranian government or military apparatus could be a device for protecting the planning/action in case ahmadinejad does fall.

so i am not so sure what will happen.
i think it is likely that ahmadinejad is not long for this world politically. if his government falls, it could put the bush squad in an awkward spot. so it would appear that they have an interest in keeping him in power, if the Big Show is the ultimate goal.

but i am not so sure: i keep thinking that any military action against iran would be insane.
if the bush squad did it, i am sure that the idea would be to use limited air strikes as the tactic. if the past is any guide, that would be THE plan--and anything (and everything) that would go wrong afterward would be chocked up to unintended consequences of the sort that caught the american planners by surprise, much in the way that the entire iraq war caught them by surprise.

but an invasion of iran would make iraq and afghanistan look like picnics.
Quote:
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/searc...Brown%20People
<center><img src="http://webpages.charter.net/micah/bushdoctrine.png"></center>


Sy Hersh writes about the Bush Doctrine here, and talks about it here.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/0...ra-fundsoh-my/
(Link above displays yesterday's Blitzer interview of Hersh transcript and link to video....)
No word yet on whether Dick Cheney presented a bible and a cake to the Lebanese Sunni warlords.
Some excerpts from Blitzer's interview with Sy Hersh:
Quote:
HERSH: My government, which arrests al Qaeda every place it can find them and send — some of them are n Guantanamo and other places, is sitting back while the Lebanese government we support, the government of Prime Minister Siniora, is providing arms and sustenance to three jihadist groups whose sole function, seems to me and to the people that talk to me in our government, to be there in case there is a real shoot-'em-up with Hezbollah and we really get into some sort of serious major conflict between the Sunni government and Hezbollah, which is largely Shia, who are basically — or as you know, there is a coalition headed by Hezbollah that is challenging the government right now, demonstrations, sit-ins.

There has been some violence. So America, my country, without telling Congress, using funds not appropriated, I don't know where, by my sources believe much of the money obviously came from Iraq where there is all kinds of piles of loose money, pools of cash that could be used for covert operations.

All of this should be investigated by Congress, by the way, and I trust it will be. . . .

We are simply in a situation where this president is really taking his notion of executive privilege to the absolute limit here, running covert operations, using money that was not authorized by Congress, supporting groups indirectly that are involved with the same people that did 9/11, and we should be arresting these people rather than looking the other way…..

.....BLITZER: Your bottom line is that Negroponte was aware of this, obviously, and he wanted to distance himself from it? That is why he decided to give up that position and take the number two job at the State Department?

HERSH: He — that is one of the reasons, I was told. Negroponte also was not in tune with Cheney. There was a lot of complaints about him because he was seen as much of a stickler, too ethical for some of the operations the Pentagon wants to run.

As you know, this Pentagon has been running covert operations. I think Mr. Gates' job and one of the things he wants to do is get some control over it. But under Rumsfeld we were running operations all over the world with who knows what money and who knows what authority, because most of those operations were not briefed to the intelligence committees.....
Bush is out riding his bicycle, Rice is marginalized:
Quote:
http://time-blog.com/middle_east/200...ed-middle_east

February 25, 2007 4:32
U.S. Secretary of State Bandar Bin Sultan?
Posted by Scott MacLeod

Prince Bandar bin Sultan loves American culture--he's a McDonald's burger addict, among other things--so he'd appreciate the baseball analogy: with the Bush administration suffering a losing streak in the Middle East, it's called in Bandar to do some relief pitching. It may not be a stretch to say that the Saudi prince has as much influence on the direction of U.S. Middle East policy as Condi Rice.
In this week's New Yorker, Seymour Hersh's article describes a "redirection" of U.S. strategy involving covert activities that "has brought the United States closer to an open confrontation with Iran and, in parts of the region, propelled it into a widening sectarian conflict between Shiite and Sunni Muslims." Hersh says that the Saudi government has already cooperated with Bush's administration in clandestine operations against Hizballah, Iran and Syria. The key players behind the strategy redirection, Hersh adds, are Vice President Cheney, Elliott Abrams of the National Security Council, departing U.S. ambassador to Iraq Zalmay Khalilzad and Bandar</b>--Rice doesn't make the list. </b>
....and "shadow president Cheney is still in "the situation room.....still giving the "shoot down" orders, while Bush is still in a Sarasota, Fla, elementary school classroom, reading along with the.......
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