Bush: ‘We’ve Never Been Stay The Course’ - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

host · 10-24-2006, 11:25 AM

Can anyone explain how/why, in a matter so serious that it requires the continued exposure of 140,000 US troops to constant serious injury or death, and has cost the lives of more than 2500 of our soldiers over the last 43 months...that there could be such a clear disconnect between what president Bush says to justify continued US military presence in Iraq, and what his wife believes that he says....and that he stands for?

If what the president says about why we fight, doesn't matter, why do you think that that his "rhetoric" doesn't matter? Where does that leave the US families of Iraq war dead, and the soldiers who continue to serve?

Quote:

.....Bush: ‘We’ve Never Been Stay The Course’

During an interview today on ABC’s This Week, President Bush tried to distance himself from what has been his core strategy in Iraq for the last three years. George Stephanopoulos asked about James Baker’s plan to develop a strategy for Iraq that is “between ’stay the course’ and ‘cut and run.’”

Bush responded, ‘We’ve never been stay the course, George!’ Watch it:
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/22/...ay-the-course/

Quote:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...060918-15.html
For Immediate Release
Office of the First Lady
September 18, 2006

Interview of Mrs. Bush by Meredith Viera, NBC "Today" Show
NBC Studios
Rockefeller Center
New York, New York

.....MRS. BUSH: Well, I'm on the campaign trail, but he is, too. But you know that --

Q You've raised a tremendous amount of money -- I believe it's $11 million -- for Republican candidates. When you are out there and you meet somebody who's on the fence, isn't sure how they're going to vote at this point, and they ask you about the war in Iraq, what do you say to them?

<h3>MRS. BUSH: Well, I say exactly what the President says, that we need to stay the course;</h3> that it's really in our interest as Americans to make sure Iraq can build a stable democracy. You've seen lately, in the last few weeks, the Prime Minister of Iraq talking here. They want us to stay there, they want to be able to build a democracy. And if we left now, we would leave a country without the support they need to build a democracy.

I'm optimistic about it. I think they really can build a democracy --

Q And yet, so many people are uneasy --

MRS. BUSH: Of course, people are. No one wants war. The President doesn't want war. No one does....

hiredgun · 10-24-2006, 11:32 AM

While it does bother me very slightly that he's going back on a phrase he's repeated many times, this isn't really that big a deal. He's not denying that he's used the phrase 'stay the course'; he's simply clarifying that strategy by explaining that it doesn't mean they're not adjusting on a tactical level on the ground.

This says more about the emptiness of 'stay the course' as an easily-packaged slogan than it does about the merits or drawbacks of the administration. All politicians use such slogans, I think.

filtherton · 10-24-2006, 11:36 AM

Well, we all know that it's either stay the course or cut and run, so i guess the president is now going to cut and run?

Ustwo · 10-24-2006, 11:57 AM

Sorry, watched it, and its arguing semantics, but the policy is the same.

kutulu · 10-24-2006, 12:17 PM

Saw it on fark over the weekend. Funny stuff. Remember, Bush was for staying the course before he was against it.

boatin · 10-24-2006, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Sorry, watched it, and its arguing semantics, but the policy is the same.

Seems like Bush can't have it both ways. Either:

1) It's just semantics, and Bush should use some of that famous backbone and say that.

2) Now that his people inside his own camp are looking at solutions that fundimentally different than what's he's been advocating, he's having to shift his position and words to prep for that change. And the story changes... again.

Seems like a flip flop is coming. But that's ok, right? As long as it's not the democrats...

Sun Tzu · 10-24-2006, 05:55 PM

I went on to read some information at the first link you provided. Im starting to come to the conclusion I shouldnt read anymore information in this area. I already have enough that has shaped my perspective on this administration and the financial supporters associated. All reading more does is piss me to the point of wanting to say things here that could get me into trouble.

Johnny Rotten · 10-24-2006, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hiredgun

He's not denying that he's used the phrase 'stay the course'; he's simply clarifying that strategy by explaining that it doesn't mean they're not adjusting on a tactical level on the ground.

Respectfully, I think you're incorrect here. True, his exact phrase was "We've never been 'Stay the course'," instead of a statement of mission, as in, "We've never said, 'Stay the course." But there is nothing inherently divergent about the character of the two phrases.

Thankfully, however, they appear to be exploring more options -- which is not to say that I agree or disagree with more options. I simply think it's prudent to consider the full spectrum of problems, which no single plan could account for.

roachboy · 10-25-2006, 05:44 AM

this one is easy peasy.

see, there is the course that george w bush has been staying in his various pronouncements concerning "reality" in iraq, there is the course that the war has been staying, the one of constant movement but then again any course that is to be stayed in a war would be constant movement except that doesnt play well but in the main the only course that has been stayed is that of what george w bush says and like most things that george w bush says this staying of the course has no necessary relationship to anything other than itself. so previously when george w bush would speak about staying the course what he really meant was that when he said things about iraq they would always be the same things and to the extent that they were always the same things he would personally be staying the course and as the decisionmaker, the commander in chief, the Leader, the Embodiment of the Nation, Fountainhead of the American Juche Idea, when george w bush says that the course is being stayed why then the course is being stayed even if that course that is being stayed applies only to the sentences within which the phrase "stay the course" is used. now of course there has always been a potential distance between staying the course in sentences and staying the course in more complex areas where the course that is being stayed is diffuse and things keep changing around, but previously that distance was not acknowledged but now it is. so what george w bush meant when he said that they staying of the course in the sentences about staying the course in iraq did not in fact mean, nor did they ever mean, that any course was being stayed beyond the one that linked the phrase "war in iraq" to the phrase "stay the course." he is still in fact staying the course because the phrase "war in iraq" and "stay the course" continue to be used in proximity to each other so the course is stayed. also staying the course in sentences has nothing to do with staying the course in the empirical world and everyone has always known this and so by saying that we will no longer say that we are staying the course the course is in fact continuing to be stayed at another level, that of the non-meshing of statements and reality. because before, when we were staying the course what we really meant was that we were exploring options within the general context of incoherence, which is itself operates within the general context of an illegitimate war--- and to the extent that we have remained incoherent while exploring other options we have in fact been staying the course while of course not exactly staying the course, but in a general way the course has been stayed yes. now the risk in appearing to no longer stay the course in sentences about staying the course in iraq is that the Will, the Resolve of the Leader, the Decisionmaker, the fountainhead of the American Juche Ideal could be interpreted as wavering when in fact that Will remains constant as we have explained. so do not be fooled by this apparent shift away from staying the course in sentences, in all other ways the course is being stayed and in this way we stay the course and will continue to do so. so we are continuing to stay the course even as we say now we are no longer saying that we are staying the course it was always the same course that we were staying, the one that obtained for sentences about the war in iraq which never referred to the actually existing war in iraq except as a normative kinds thing, a theater of the proper relation between the Nation and its Boys as embodied in the course that was being stayed and the Leader who was staying the course. so staying the course was always an edifying exercize, something directed at you, Amurica, and was always an imperative never a descriptive. and we continue to think that you, Amurica, should stay the course of modelling your relationship to the war in iraq on that of the Dear Leader, the Fountainhead of the American Juche Ideal, but we now think that you have learned this behaviour and the Dear Leader can begin to move onto other areas like exploring all options, which He always was doing anyway and so even as we no longer say the course is being stayed in fact the course is being stayed nothing has really changed except that the People have learned a little and we can now move to more Complex Types of Relations. so now we will all explore all options together but always the same options being explored together and so no matter what we do there will be a course and that course will be being stayed even as we explore all options that exploration is a course and to the extent that we will explore them we will stay the course and so not to worry there is nothing really changing here we have always meant this.

see?
easy peasy.

host · 10-27-2006, 10:07 AM

Ned Lamont Campaign Ad features Tony Snow, Joe Lieberman, Bush, and Cheney vowing to "stay the course" in Iraq..... and Bush and Lieberman .... "flip flopping" on the their commitment to "stay the course".

Watch It:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW8lDlgtuqI&eurl=

It seems to convey the message that these guys don't have a plan for the Iraq war. It's not too supportive of our troops who are stuck there, in Iraq, IMO.

Quote:

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/24/...ay-the-course/
Snow Falsely Claims Bush Said ‘Stay The Course’ Only 8 Times (Actually, It’s At Least 30) »

On Sunday, President Bush told ABC’s George Stephanopoulos that his Iraq policy has <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/22/bush-stay-the-course/">“never been stay the course.”</a> (Today, Rumsfeld disagreed, calling suggestions they were backing away from the phrase <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/24/rumsfeld-stay-course/">“nonsense.”</a>)

Moments ago on Fox News, White House Press Secretary Tony Snow said “we went back and looked today and could only find eight times where he [Bush] ever used the phrase stay the course.” Watch it:
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/24/...ay-the-course/

If there is nothing to this "flip flop", why such desperate attempts to downplay the "about face", with such feeble and easily refuted responses? Doesn't Tony Snow realize that he is blowing an opportunity to be the newcomer to the Bush administation who has a reputation for giving the press accurate and reliable information? Are they so arrogant that they don't think trust and integrity matter, even to the families with the empty seats at the holiday dinner tables....some empty just for the coming holidays, and some seats empty forever?

hunnychile · 10-27-2006, 11:02 AM

I miss the good old days of the surgical strikes...

host · 10-27-2006, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunnychile

I miss the good old days of the surgical strikes...

That's a "driveby" one liner....I invite you to clearly describe what you are talking about. Are you responding to my most recent post ????

The_Jazz · 10-27-2006, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunnychile

I miss the good old days of the surgical strikes...

I do too. It was nice that for a while we could send the cruise missles in to pop a target and not worry about what the body count of American soldiers for the next 6 months was going to be. Even the bombing of Lybia was better than what we've got going now in Iraq.

host · 10-27-2006, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

I do too. It was nice that for a while we could send the cruise missles in to pop a target and not worry about what the body count of American soldiers for the next 6 months was going to be. Even the bombing of Lybia was better than what we've got going now in Iraq.

I thought that the youtube link I posted to the Ned Lamont campaign ad....might result in discussion of how obvious it is why a majority of voters in the august Connecticut senate primary chose challenger Lamont as the party's senate candidate, instead of Joe Lieberman....and that it follows that the difference between the president's and republican "stay the course" or "cut and run" effort to stifle all debate on more realistic examination, advocated by Ned Lamont and some other democrats...... of the current situation of US military involvement in Iraq, the trends toward an improving situation of stability in Iraq....or not, and when and how to reduce US involvement in Iraq, is a core issue in the coming mid-term election.

The difference between Lamont's position on what to do about Iraq, and Lieberman's/the Bush administration's seems to be made clear by Lamont campaign ad. Lamont's opponent is distancing himself from his earlier attempt to stifle discussion of what to do about the US quagmire in Iraq.... but has no inclination to discuss what to do next, or to examine where we are now....

derekdoll · 10-27-2006, 02:18 PM

Must agree with hired gun re: slogans. I see mr. Bush and I honestly wonder: Am I the only one who thinks that he is intellectualy lacking? I really believe that he will go down as the simplest man to ever gain the presidency.
He has been bombarding us with the most inane slogans in history and yet, after 6 years, he still can't pronounce 'nuclear', he embarrases this nation on the world stage and he boasts that he "never reads the paper'! Lord help us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hiredgun

While it does bother me very slightly that he's going back on a phrase he's repeated many times, this isn't really that big a deal. He's not denying that he's used the phrase 'stay the course'; he's simply clarifying that strategy by explaining that it doesn't mean they're not adjusting on a tactical level on the ground.

This says more about the emptiness of 'stay the course' as an easily-packaged slogan than it does about the merits or drawbacks of the administration. All politicians use such slogans, I think.

host · 10-31-2006, 01:11 PM

Do we even have to wonder why they "come for" Kerry now?

Quote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/31/wa...rtner=homepage
Kerry and G.O.P. Spar Over Iraq Remarks

Article Tools Sponsored By
By DAVID STOUT
Published: October 31, 2006

......Mr. Bush stepped up the language on Iraq on Monday while campaigning for Republican candidates in Georgia and Texas. “However they put it, the Democrat approach in Iraq comes down to this,” he said. “The terrorists win and America loses.”

Part of Mr. Kerry’s outrage may arise from memories of 2004, when a group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth raised allegations, never substantiated, that he had exaggerated his wartime exploits. Some political observers thought Mr. Kerry and his allies were too slow to strike back at his attackers.

This time, Mr. Kerry did not wait. “No Democrat will be bullied by an administration that has a cut-and-run policy in Afghanistan and a stand-still-and-lose strategy in Iraq,” he said in his statement. At his news conference, he accused Republicans of creating “straw men” because “they’re afraid to debate real men.”

Before you post a reply laced with republican talking points that demand a Kerry "apology to the troops".....consider that the folks who Kerry referred to are the "clay" molded by the Bush era neocons, into the enlistees who end up in the rank and file who serve, and die....in our military, in Iraq. Would many educated people "volunteer" to serve four tours as a combat E-4 in Iraq, if they weren't given a helping....or two....of tax funded psy-op?

They think that we're stupid fucks....that we'll believe everything that they tell us....enough of us, anyway.....and....they've been right....They know their constituency, and, how to reach them, how to turn them.....

Quote:

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2006/0...e_of_the_.html
Revenge of the Mutt People
January 12, 2006
Joe Bageant

......My point here is that we rural and small town mutt people by an early age seem to have a special capacity for cruelty, compared say, to damned near every other imaginable group of Americans. For instance, as a child did you ever put a firecracker up a toad’s ass and light it? George Bush and I have that in common. Anyway, as all non-whites the world round understand, white people can be mean. Especially if they feel threatened -- and they feel threatened about everything these days. But when you provide certain species of white mutt people with the right incentives, such as free pork or approval from god and government, you get things like lynchings, Fallujah, the Birmingham bombers and Abu Ghraib.

Even as this is being written we may safely assume some of my tribe of mutt people are stifling the screams of captives in America’s secret “black site” prisons across the planet. Or on a more mundane scale of cruelty (according to CBS footage) kicking hundreds of chickens to death every day at the Pilgrim’s Pride plant in Wardensville, West Virginia, just up the road from where I am writing this. Or consider the image of Matthew Shepard’s body twisted on that Wyoming fence. All these are our handiwork. We the mutt faced sons and daughters of the republic. Born to kick your chicken breast meat to death for you in the darkest, most dismal corners of our great land, born to kill and be killed in stock car races, drunken domestic rows, and of course in the desert dusty back streets at the edges of the empire. Middle class urban liberals may never claim us as brothers, much less willing servants, but as they say in prison, we are your meat. We do your bidding. Your refusal to admit that we do your dirty work for you, not to mention the international smackdowns and muggings for the republic -- from which you benefit more materially than we ever will -- makes it no less true.

Literally from birth, we get plenty of conditioning to kill those gooks and sand monkeys and whoever else needs killing at any particular moment in history according to our leadership. Like most cracker kids in my generation, from the time I could walk I played games in which I pretended to (practiced for) killing -- Japs, Indians, Germans, Koreans, Africans Zulus (as seen in the movies Zulu and Uhuru!) variously playing the role of U.S. cavalry, Vikings a la Kirk Douglas, World War II GIs, colonial soldiers, and of course Confederate soldiers. As little white cracklets we played with plastic army men that we tortured by flame, firecracker, burning rivulets of gasoline, kerosene or lighter fluid. And if atomic bombing was called for, M-80s and ash cans. We went to sleep dreaming of the screams of the evil brutes we had smitten that day, all those slant eyed and swasticated enemies of democracy and our way of life. Later as post-cracklets in high school we rode around in cars looking to fight anyone who was different, the “other,” be they black, brown, or simply from another school or county. As young men we brawled at dances, parties or simply while staring at one another bored and drunk. We bashed each over women, less-than weight bags of dope, money owed and alleged insult to honor, wife, mother or model of car -- Ford versus Chevy. In other words, all of white trash culture’s noblest causes. With the “fighting tradition” of Scots Irish behind us, we smashed upon each other ceaselessly in trailer court and tavern, night and day in rain and summer heat until finally, we reach our mid-fifties and lose our enthusiasm (not to mention stamina) for that most venerated of borderer sports.

Said meanness is polished to a high gloss murderous piety most useful to the military establishment. Thus, by the time we are of military age (which is about twelve) we are capable of doing a Lynndie England on any type of human being unfamiliar to us from our culturally ignorant viewpoint -- doing it to the “other.” Sent to Iraq or Afghanistan, most of us, given the nod, can torture the other as mindlessly as a cat plays with a mouse. That we can do it so readily and without remorse is one of the darkest secrets of underlying the “heroes” mythology the culture machine is so fervently ginning up about the ongoing series of wars now just unfolding. And when one of us is killed by a rooftop sniper in Baghdad we weep and sweat in our fear, band closer together as Border brothers in the ancient oath of ultimate fealty and courage. And we meant it and we do it.......

....About half of the Americans killed in Iraq come from communities like Winchester, Virginia or Romney, West Virginia or Fisher, Illinois or Kilgore, Texas or ... About forty-five percent of the American dead in Iraq come from communities of less than 40,000, even though these towns make up only twenty-five percent of our population. These so-called volunteers are part of this nation's de facto draft -- economic conscription -- the carrot being politically preferable to the whip. The carrot does not have to be very big out here where delivering frozen food wholesale to restaurants out of your own car entirely on commission is considered a good self-employment opportunity. I’m serious. One of my sons did it for a couple of months.

Once you grasp the implications of such an environment regarding the so-called American Dream, the U.S. Army at thirteen hundred bucks a month, a signing bonus and free room and board begin to look pretty good. Even a nice long ass kicking tour of the tropics killing brown guys becomes attractive. Especially compared to competing with other little brown guys at home, humping “big-roll sod” across ever-expanding MacMansionland. In the process, we mutt people learn worldly lessons that the post graduate set raving about the jobless economy cannot know. For instance we know firsthand that there is no way to beat little brown sod balling guys willing to sleep in their cars and live on canned beans and store brand soda. Better to go “volunteer” for the Army.

Along with the military come those big bucks for college later, up to $65,000, which according to current wisdom is more than enough to buy your way out of the beans and soda pop car camp at the edge of the new Toll Brothers development. Maybe some poor kids do go to college on their military benefits. But personally speaking, I can count the number on one hand I know who ever did. Most of them were black. The rest seem to go to the local truck driving school (rip-offs designed to collect government money) or the ITI “vocational career training,” again designed to hoover up federal dough. Let's be honest here: graduating from the average American cracker high school here in the suburban heartland is not exactly the path to Harvard Yard. Your best educational option is probably the one you are looking at on the matchbook cover.

Now that education has been reduced to just another industry, a series of stratified job training mills, ranging from the truck driving schools to the state universities, our nation is no longer capable of creating a truly educated citizenry. Education is not supposed to be an industry. Its proper use is not to serve industries, either by cranking out feckless little mid-management robots or through industry purchased research chasing after a better hard-on drug. Its proper use is to enable citizens to live responsible lives that create and enhance their democratic culture. This cannot be merely by generating and accumulating mountains of information, facts without cultural, artistic, philosophical and human context or priority.

“No one should be forced to dive into an ocean of debt to learn how the world works, much less escape minimum wage hell. It should be enough just to want to know. Then too, look at our educational institutions. Academia, at least from this outsider's perspective, is an almost impenetrable veneer of elitist flatulence and toxic competition. Jesus, no wonder this country is in such sorry shape."
-- Arvin Hill, Texas philosopher

Here is how they "do it":

Quote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6101178.stm
Tuesday, 31 October 2006, 10:38 GMT

Iraq violence 'linked to US vote'
Relatives embrace in front of coffin of US soldier Andrew Patton
Increasing numbers of Americans want troops to start coming home
US Vice-President Dick Cheney has said that insurgents in Iraq have increased their attacks in order to influence the upcoming US mid-term elections.

He blamed a recent rise in violence on al-Qaeda and others trying to "break the will of the American people".......

.........Propaganda unit

Pentagon spokesman Eric Ruff has echoed the vice-president, saying that the militants are trying to "increase opposition to the war and have an influence against the president".

Their comments come amid one of the worst months of violence since the war began, which has claimed the lives of 101 US troops and many more Iraqis.

The upturn in violence also coincided with the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, which Mr Cheney said could have been a contributory factor.

Despite the violence, the BBC's Justin Webb in Washington says that the Bush administration does not believe the true picture of events in Iraq has been made public.

The White House is particularly concerned that insurgents are using the internet to disseminate their message and give the impression they are more powerful than the US, our correspondent says.

In response the US defence department has set up a new unit to better promote its message across 24-hour rolling news outlets, and particularly on the internet.

The Pentagon said the move would boost its ability to counter "inaccurate" news stories and exploit new media.

'Set the record straight'

Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said earlier this year the US was losing the propaganda war to its enemies.

The newly-established unit will use "new media" channels to push its message and "set the record straight", the Pentagon's Mr Ruff said.

"We're looking at being quicker to respond to breaking news, being quicker to respond, frankly, to inaccurate statements," he said.

A Pentagon memo seen by the Associated Press news agency said the new unit would "develop messages" for the 24-hour news cycle and aim to "correct the record".

The unit would reportedly monitor media such as web logs and would also employ "surrogates", or top politicians or lobbyists who could be interviewed on TV and radio shows.

Mr Ruff said the move to set up the unit had not been prompted either by the eroding public support in the US for the Iraq war or the US mid-term elections next week.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinclair Lewis (1917)

Fascism will come to America wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.

Quote:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politic...ents/truth.pdf
(page 1)
Truth from These Podia
Summary of a Study of Strategic Influence, Perception Management,
Strategic Information Warfare and Strategic Psychological Operations
in Gulf II
Sam Gardiner1
Colonel, USAF (Retired)

October 8, 2003

1 The author has taught strategy and military operations at the National War College, Air
War College and Naval War College. He was recently a visiting scholar at the Swedish
Defence College. During Gulf II he was a regular on the NewsHour with Jim Lehrer as
well as on BBC radio and television, and National Public Radio.
The study was not funded by any organization, and the author’s arguments are not meant
to represent those of any organization.
He can be reached at SamGard@aol.com

(page 3)
.....It was not bad intelligence. It was much more. It was an orchestrated effort. It
began before the war, was a major effort during the war and continues as post-conflict
distortions.
The title of this study was difficult for me. When I began I thought it was going
to be an analysis of Pentagon spin. I was going to call it, “Truth from this Podium.” That
was to be a play on promises we were given before the war. The more I did, the more it
became clear that it was not just the Pentagon. It was the White House, and it was
Number 10 Downing Street. It was more than spin.
I though about calling it “Apparatus of Lies,” connecting to a title the White
House gave a paper on Iraq’s decade of fabrication, mostly about weapons of destruction.
Although lies were part of the effort, that title would have been off the mark because the
story is more about aversion to truth rather than the open lie.
I also missed on the subject. I thought it was going to be about spinning the
stories of the conflict. I was wrong. The real essence of what I found was a much
broader problem. It is a problem about the future as much as the past. This problem
became the story of the study.
This is one way of summarizing the study:
2
The United States (and UK) conducted a strategic
influence campaign that:
• …distorted perceptions of the situation both
before and during the conflict.
• …caused misdirection of portions of the military
operation.
• …was irresponsible in parts.
• …might have been illegal in some ways.
• …cost big bucks.
• …will be even more serious in the future.
I know what I am suggesting is serious. I did not come to these conclusions
lightly. Because my plea is for truth in war, I have tried to be very careful not to fall into
a trap of describing exaggerations with exaggeration. I hope I’ve done that. I expect
some will believe I have been guilty of the same sins. As long as we can have some
discussion about truth in war, I accept the criticism.

(page 4)
Truth from These Podia
You will see in my analysis and comments that I do not accept the notion that the
first casualty of war is truth. I think we have to have a higher standard.
In the most basic sense, Washington and London did not trust the peoples of their
democracies to come to right decisions. Truth became a casualty. When truth is a
casualty, democracy receives collateral damage.
My plea is for truth. I believe we have to find ways to restore truth as currency of
government in matters as serious as war. My story would be important if it were the last
chapter of the book. It’s not. There is more to come. As the United States struggles with
a post-conflict Iraq, distortions continue. Probably of more concern, major players in the
game are working on ways to do it “better” in future conflicts.

In other words, it appears as if the issues of this war will become even more
important for future wars. We have reason to be concerned.
Another way to summarize the study:
Summary
• Clearly, the assumption of some in the government is the people
of the United States and the United Kingdom will come to a
wrong decision if they are the given truth.
• We probably have taken “Information Warfare” too far.
• We allowed strategic psychological operations to.
become part of public affairs.
• We failed to make adequate distinction between strategic
influence stuff and intelligence.
• Message became more important than performance.

3
The concepts of warfare got all mixed up in this war. I’ll come back to this
subject later, but what has happened is that information warfare, strategic influence,
strategic psychological operations pushed their way into the important process of
informing the peoples of our two democracies. The United States and the UK got too
good at the concepts they had been developing for future warfare.
The best way to describe my methodology is to use words that came from
Admiral Poindexter’s unfunded project, Total Information Awareness, later known as
Terrorism Information Awareness. What I have done is look for “inconsistencies in open
source data with regard to known facts…and goals.”
Again to use the words from the Terrorism Information Awareness Program, by
discovering linkages, it was possible to identify intent, methods of operations and
organizational dynamics.

(page 5)
Truth from These Podia
Through this methodology, it was possible to do what the Pentagon wanted to do,
“to reduce vulnerability to open source information operations.”

4
Methodology
• “The purpose…is to reduce vulnerability to open source
information operations by developing the ability to detect
inconsistencies in open source data with regard to known facts
and…goals.”
• “One of the characteristics…is that their organizational structures
are not well understood and are purposefully designed to conceal
their connections and relationships. DARPA’s premise is that by
discovering linkages among people, places, things and events…to
recognize patterns of relationships that are representative…, it
can help identify…intent, methods of operation, and
organizational dynamics.”
Report to Congress Regarding the Terrorism Information
Awareness Program, May 20, 2003
My definitions are sloppy in this paper. Some would say I don’t know the
definition of information warfare. It’s not because I don’t appreciate the clarity that
comes from precise meaning. It’s because almost all of the pre-war definitions were
violated in implementation. I was left with a couple questions, “What was true and who
was affected by the non-truth?

(page 5)
They told us what they were going to do. The Department of Defense created a
rather significant press storm early in 2002 when it was revealed that there were plans to
create an office to do strategic influence. Efforts to create the office were brought to a
halt with White House agreement. In November, the Secretary of Defense announced in
a press conference on board an aircraft on the way to South America that he was just
kidding when he said he would not do strategic influence.
The White House gave a similar warning. Andrew Card, the President’s Chief of
Staff told us they would do a major campaign to sell the war. Alastair Campbell, Tony
Blair’s just-resigned Strategy (and communications) Director, was orchestrating the same
on the other side of the Atlantic.
The research then was to discover what they did and how they did what they said
they were going to do.
I’m not going to address why they did it. That’s something I don’t understand
even after all the research. I would like to ask them, “Why do it?” “Didn’t you know
there would be consequences?’ It was not necessary. You could have told the truth.
You don’t defend democracy by making light of its most basic elements. The American
people would have supported the war. Why do it?

(Page 7)
From my research, the most profound thread is that WMD was only a very small
part of the strategic influence, information operations and marketing campaign conducted
on both sides of the Atlantic.
These are the stories on which I ended up doing detailed research. In each case, I
attempted to find when and where the story originated, which officials made statements
related to the story and then look at how it came out. Obviously, I am reporting on those
where the outcome differed from the story.
My research suggests there were over 50 stories manufactured or at least
engineered that distorted the picture of Gulf II for the American and British people. I’ll
cover most in this report. At the end, I will also describe some stories that seem as if they
were part of the strategic influence campaign although the evidence is only
circumstantial.
What becomes important is not each story taken individually. If that were the
case, it would probably seem only more of the same. If you were to look at them one at a
time, you could conclude, “Okay we sort of knew that was happening.” It is the pattern
that becomes important. It’s the summary of everything. To use a phrase often heard
during the war, it’s the mosaic.....

10-24-2006, 11:57 AM	#4 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Sorry, watched it, and its arguing semantics, but the policy is the same. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

10-24-2006, 05:55 PM	#7 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	I went on to read some information at the first link you provided. Im starting to come to the conclusion I shouldnt read anymore information in this area. I already have enough that has shaped my perspective on this administration and the financial supporters associated. All reading more does is piss me to the point of wanting to say things here that could get me into trouble. __________________ *To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking*

10-25-2006, 05:44 AM	#9 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	this one is easy peasy. see, there is the course that george w bush has been staying in his various pronouncements concerning "reality" in iraq, there is the course that the war has been staying, the one of constant movement but then again any course that is to be stayed in a war would be constant movement except that doesnt play well but in the main the only course that has been stayed is that of what george w bush says and like most things that george w bush says this staying of the course has no necessary relationship to anything other than itself. so previously when george w bush would speak about staying the course what he really meant was that when he said things about iraq they would always be the same things and to the extent that they were always the same things he would personally be staying the course and as the decisionmaker, the commander in chief, the Leader, the Embodiment of the Nation, Fountainhead of the American Juche Idea, when george w bush says that the course is being stayed why then the course is being stayed even if that course that is being stayed applies only to the sentences within which the phrase "stay the course" is used. now of course there has always been a potential distance between staying the course in sentences and staying the course in more complex areas where the course that is being stayed is diffuse and things keep changing around, but previously that distance was not acknowledged but now it is. so what george w bush meant when he said that they staying of the course in the sentences about staying the course in iraq did not in fact mean, nor did they ever mean, that any course was being stayed beyond the one that linked the phrase "war in iraq" to the phrase "stay the course." he is still in fact staying the course because the phrase "war in iraq" and "stay the course" continue to be used in proximity to each other so the course is stayed. also staying the course in sentences has nothing to do with staying the course in the empirical world and everyone has always known this and so by saying that we will no longer say that we are staying the course the course is in fact continuing to be stayed at another level, that of the non-meshing of statements and reality. because before, when we were staying the course what we really meant was that we were exploring options within the general context of incoherence, which is itself operates within the general context of an illegitimate war--- and to the extent that we have remained incoherent while exploring other options we have in fact been staying the course while of course not exactly staying the course, but in a general way the course has been stayed yes. now the risk in appearing to no longer stay the course in sentences about staying the course in iraq is that the Will, the Resolve of the Leader, the Decisionmaker, the fountainhead of the American Juche Ideal could be interpreted as wavering when in fact that Will remains constant as we have explained. so do not be fooled by this apparent shift away from staying the course in sentences, in all other ways the course is being stayed and in this way we stay the course and will continue to do so. so we are continuing to stay the course even as we say now we are no longer saying that we are staying the course it was always the same course that we were staying, the one that obtained for sentences about the war in iraq which never referred to the actually existing war in iraq except as a normative kinds thing, a theater of the proper relation between the Nation and its Boys as embodied in the course that was being stayed and the Leader who was staying the course. so staying the course was always an edifying exercize, something directed at you, Amurica, and was always an imperative never a descriptive. and we continue to think that you, Amurica, should stay the course of modelling your relationship to the war in iraq on that of the Dear Leader, the Fountainhead of the American Juche Ideal, but we now think that you have learned this behaviour and the Dear Leader can begin to move onto other areas like exploring all options, which He always was doing anyway and so even as we no longer say the course is being stayed in fact the course is being stayed nothing has really changed except that the People have learned a little and we can now move to more Complex Types of Relations. so now we will all explore all options together but always the same options being explored together and so no matter what we do there will be a course and that course will be being stayed even as we explore all options that exploration is a course and to the extent that we will explore them we will stay the course and so not to worry there is nothing really changing here we have always meant this. see? easy peasy. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 10-25-2006 at 05:47 AM..

10-27-2006, 11:02 AM	#11 (permalink)
hunnychile Alien Anthropologist Location: Between Boredom and Nirvana	I miss the good old days of the surgical strikes... __________________ "I need compassion, understanding and chocolate." - NJB

10-24-2006, 11:32 AM	#2 (permalink)
hiredgun Addict	While it does bother me very slightly that he's going back on a phrase he's repeated many times, this isn't really that big a deal. He's not denying that he's used the phrase 'stay the course'; he's simply clarifying that strategy by explaining that it doesn't mean they're not adjusting on a tactical level on the ground. This says more about the emptiness of 'stay the course' as an easily-packaged slogan than it does about the merits or drawbacks of the administration. All politicians use such slogans, I think.

10-24-2006, 11:36 AM	#3 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Well, we all know that it's either stay the course or cut and run, so i guess the president is now going to cut and run?

10-24-2006, 12:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	Saw it on fark over the weekend. Funny stuff. Remember, Bush was for staying the course before he was against it.