The_Dude

i doubt it, because US and brit troops are scouring the area, and if they cant find any in all this time = they dont exist.

all that crap before the war, hasnt been confirmed.

if they was such an imminent threat, we should've found some of them. saddam wouldnt have been hiding them if they were supposed to be "imminent threats"

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"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

LutherMac

Personally, I thought for SURE we would find them days after the war was over... if not from Saddam.... then planted by the US government to prove that we were right...

But nothing has turned up so far... and SOMEONE would have stepped up and said something by now, I'm sure of that.

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Liquor Dealer

I think they will be found. I am glad everyone is not as down on my country as you two are. I do not believe the US would ever plant something as you suggest. The two mobile lab trailers, the missiles, and tons of other evidence, plus Sadamm's glorious history point to their existence. I think if we really wanted to find them we could probably present them in a couple of hours - however, a couple of Iraq's neighbors would probably feel a bit invaded.

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Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

Simple_Min

I am no longer looking for just any WMD proof. I want this imminent threat that UK and the White house said existed. Where are the launch sites ready to attack Israel and the UK and the US? Surely they didn’t smuggle those to other places without the Wonderful American surveillance watching? We were under SERIOUS and REAL danger because of Saddam's ready arsenal.

It seems like if these WMD's did exist we are in greater danger AFTER the war than we were before. If they existed, now possibly are in the hands of people who have much less to lose by using them than did Saddam. Either way you look at it, War on terror isn't.

And then Iraq's neighbor's neighbors would feel invaded...iterate until the weapons are back to where they may have originated from: the u.s.

Saddam is gone. Glad! So hopefully next we will have a swift and well deserved regime change back in the US and we will have a more democratic elections than we did last.

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If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.

Liquor Dealer

You probably will come a whole lot closer to finding them stamped Made in France - along with made in Germany, Russia, and N Korea. Your desire for a regime change in the US is several years away.

The quip on the neighbors being invaded - might be a lot closer than some of you seem to think.

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Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

Mr. Mojo

We dropped a lot of bombs, Spec-Ops were all over Iraq blowing shit up

Has it occurred to anyone that maybe we blew some of the weapons up so Saddam wouldn't be able to use them on invading US Troops? Just a theory

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When I jerk off I feel good for about twenty seconds and then WHAM it's right back into suicidal depression

LutherMac

Not down on the country at all... in fact, I was well in support of the war. I just seriously doubt that WMDs will actually be found on Iraqi soil anytime soon. The fact that we can't find anything only proves to me that we were just a little too late, and Saddam has shipped everything to his pals out in the Middle East.

We didn't go in there out of fear that he was personally going to use the weapons on us... we were afraid that he would actually give them out to whoever came to him with an plan to attack us. Now that we can't seem to find anything that exists, but rather we're finding that he had the means to create them... all probability does point to the fact that he's dispersed them to unknown groups.. now we've just got to find out who.

The reason I thought for sure that we'd plant it... personally, just seems like something we'd have done because we could. However, in recent weeks I've realized why that hasn't been done. If we DID plant anything... and were caught... well.. lets just say we'd piss quite a few groups off.

Still... whatever was there is now gone. You're completely correct in the fact that we'll have to check his neighbors if we really want to find anything.

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Always remember that you are unique... just like everyone else!

splck

If they don't find them, I wouldn't put it past them to "plant" some to help justify the cause.
Governments never lie

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nice line eh?

Liquor Dealer

I wouldn't make a damn bit of difference if we found a train load of the shit - we're going to be accused of planting it no matter what is found.

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Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

Mr. Mojo

The Sheep have spoken...

<a target=new href="http://www.gallup.com/poll/releases/pr030604.asp"><b> Little Concern About Lack of WMD in Iraq.</b> Public rejects charges of deliberate deception by Bush administration (Link)</a>

By 67% to 31%, Americans say the Bush administration did not deliberately mislead the American public about whether Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

Overall, 62% of Americans now believe the information was inaccurate, but half of that group (31%) says the Bush administration thought the information was correct. The other half believes the Bush administration knew it was incorrect. Another 31% believe the original information provided by the Bush administration was correct.

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When I jerk off I feel good for about twenty seconds and then WHAM it's right back into suicidal depression

Simple_Min

Of course. Right. France. And I suppose the unlisted nation (the US) has a cleaner record than the countries you are so quick to criticize. Double Standard?

Perhaps it's you who is being a bit naive in thinking America will invade other countries in the region. That invasion may get us 2 steps closer to whatever it is we are trying to achieve, but everything else will take 3 steps backward.

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If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.

Daval

Look at the 'Deceptions' thread posted on this board. The US claimed to know exactly where this stuff was located. Surely they would have saved some to wave in front of the faces of us unbelievers.

Bollocks to that.

Maybe WMD do exist in Iraq, but the fact remains that the US manipulated countries, manipulated facts, tried to manipulate the UN to get what they wanted. And now they don't have the proof to back up their claims.

Hell, rumour has it that Colin Powell was extremely uncomfortable with what he had to base his case on.

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"It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it."
Winston Churchill

Simple_Min

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/0...ws/9intell.htm

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If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.

Daval

thanks for the quote simple_min

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"It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it."
Winston Churchill

Charlatan

At this late a date I don't think it matters anymore whether or not the US finds any WMD.

The US controls Iraq. They control the oil. They control the election process. They will have their vassal state.

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Daval

I sure wish it would cost bush the election though.

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"It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it."
Winston Churchill

The_Dude

so, 31% of americans believe that that US intelligence is not the best in the world? and US intelligence could screw up on something of this magnitude?

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"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

Liquor Dealer

So! If we continue with this logic I assume that 69% think it is the best in the world! That's pretty good! Don't ya' think!!!

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Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

4thTimeLucky

currently 10 to 4 against.

i thought you guys were all a bit more pro-the-party-line than that.

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I've been 4thTimeLucky, you've been great. Goodnight and God bless!

The_Dude

definately

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"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

Macheath

They'll find them shortly before the next US Presidential election.

geep

I'd like to get on this one. Make it 10 to 5. Who cares if we ever find anything. We know he had 'em cause he used 'em against the Kurds and the Iranians. We know he had ties to terrorists, they built extensive training facilities in his country. Whether the threat was imminent or not is not the point. Does anybody think that the eventuality that terrorists would end up with WMD's from Iraq didn't exist? Maybe not tommorrow or the next day but it sure looked absolute. What were we gonna do to stop it? Make Saddam promise not to give terrorists the bomb? Maybe the Bush administration told us the truth or maybe they didn't. One thing we know is that something that looked like a sure bet doesn't look so sure now. I'm happy about that. That would be justification enough for me. Maybe the American public is just too niave to look at the facts.

door

*sigh*

If I gave you 100 people and asked you to search the entire state of california for a lab or box the size of an apartment, probobly deep underground, that I had 5 years to hide, how long would it take you to find?

and the clear and immediate danger was not that they can launch them, but that they can give them to terrorists.

I am sick and tired of all of this nonsense, because, frankly, thats all it is. If bush is a liar, so is the UN, and the clinton administration, because all of these groups said they had them.

and if it was all about oil, how come we're still paying for it? How come the UK and the US isn't just taking it and shipping it home? How come we arn't dictating price?

People during the clinton administration had nothing but true things to say negativly about the administration because so much crap was actually going on. But now that the Liberals are on the wrong side of history and have been wrong so many times, they are trying anything to get the Pres. and the rest of the conservatives.

It is pathetic.

The_Dude

we're not arguing liberal vs conservative here, we're just debating whether or not we'll find WMD's in iraq

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"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

smooth

Your first point is the same one the other side was saying in support of further inspections. What changed between now and then? And why won't the administration allow the UN inspectors to return?

You do realize how much the cost of gasoline has decreased since before we went to war, right? Part of that was a result of the "shortness" of the war--OPEC has more crude than the market requires. Now they also have to reintegrate Iraq production into their quota--effectively altering the structure of the cartel's price controls.

Mr. Mojo

If i may quote Tony Blankley - its a really interesting column
<a target=new href="http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20030603-084017-7635r.htm"><b>George 'Machiavelli' Bush? Nah</b></a>

We are now to believe that the president is the devious mastermind of a mind-bogglingly complex plot to deceive the world into thinking Saddam Hussein had chemical and biological weapons. Not only did he have to deceive the credulous and naive French Intelligence Service, but also Russian and German intelligence, the U.N. Security Council and their inspectors, the State Department bureaucracy, including Colin Powell personally, and Tony Blair and the vaunted British Intelligence establishment. Because before the war, all those entities honestly believed — and consistently reported to the world press — that they believed Saddam had such weapons.

Let's be clear what the news media and political charge is against President Bush: He "hyped" the facts; he politicized classified intelligence; he misled the world, he stated facts he had reason to know weren't true. To have accomplished such a thing, he didn't have to merely fool a gullible public, he also had to fool his own government bureaucracy, because in Washington a classified government secret is the common knowledge of every 27-year-old cable news producer by about 11 a.m. Remember, last August field-grade officers were leaking Pentagon war plans to the New York Times and The Washington Post on a regular basis? If these same war-averse men had possessed information to contradict President Bush over the last six months, when he was talking about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, does any one doubt they would have leaked such information before their morning coffee breaks? To have accomplished both such manipulation of his government and of world opinion would seem inconsistent with the media's portrayal of him as a Forrest Gump type. Now, they would have us see George Bush as possessing all the skills and instincts of Nicoli Machiavelli and Joseph Goebbels.

In 1998, President Clinton called for, and Congress passed into law, the official U.S. government policy on Iraq: Regime change due to their possession of weapons of mass destruction...

The real question the world should be asking is not why Mr. Bush went to war, but why Saddam did. For what was Saddam willing to risk his regime and life? Consider, up to the moment of the war, if he had agreed to cooperate with the U.N. weapons inspectors, war could have been avoided. .That Saddam chose to fight, answers all rational questions. But even now, a deranged world and a Bush-hating Democratic Party (and their media auxiliary) insist on putting our good president in the dock, rather than the evil Saddam — the greatest killer of Muslims in history."

<a target=new href="http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9802/17/iraq.clinton/">(CNN: Clinton demands total access for U.N. arms inspectors -02.17.98)</a>
<a target=new href="http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/16/clinton.iraq.speech/">(CNN: Clinton Speech - Iraq has Abused its Last Chance -12.16.98)</a>
<a target=new href="http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/16/clinton.iraq.speech/#2">(CNN: Clinton - Strikes Necessary to Stunt Weapons Programs -12.16.98)</a>

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When I jerk off I feel good for about twenty seconds and then WHAM it's right back into suicidal depression

Liquor Dealer

What else would you call it? Liberals say everything George Bush says or does is a lie - Conservatives say everything the liberals say or do is a damn lie. Things simply haven't worked out to suit you guys. Better luck next time.

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Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

reconmike

They are there, and as soon as they confirm those tiny bone fragments they have from under that building Hussien was hiding in the hiders will come out of the woodwork for the US cash.

The rush to get attack was also due to the fact that summer was coming, shithole desert in summertime, not ideal for combat.

They have found mobile bio labs. Which could culture bio-toxins.

And does anyone know how long it takes to produce sarin gas?

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mingster

Possible, but unlikely. We've been interogating all their top scientists for the last few weeks, you'd think someone would have cracked by now. There's always the possibility, but considering that the US has to be offering a ridiculous amount of incentives to anyone who gives them conclusive proof I find it doubtful.

eyeronic

Not that I don't believe they ever existed, but I think due to the martyr mindset of S.H., he did everything possible to make them dissappear.

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I hold with those that favor fire.

Sun Tzu

The way I see it is they will continue to look, for security reasons. I feel they will continue to look even if it takes years to do. Is there anyone that would prefer the US troops stop looking for them?
THe reason I dont believe they would be planted by the US is this: who do you think the US is trying to impress? Its own citizens? The rest of the world? What if they never did find any...? And. . . Whos going to get spanked and who's doing the spanking?

Just a thought.

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

KillerYoda

They seem to really be reaching for it lately, so I don't think they will. When they start saying that an abandoned trailer "could have" been used for chemical weapons, they're running out of places to look. Using a "dirty" trailer as reason for the invasion of Iraq would be a like using a dollar bill with traces of cocaine on it as the main evidence in a drug trafficking trial.

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"So you're Chekov, huh? Well, this here's McCoy. Find a Spock, we got us an away team."

seretogis

Considering that only 1% (if that, I can't remember exactly) of the suspected WMD storage locations have been searched yet, I wouldn't put all of my eggs in one basket. It's way too early to determine the outcome of the search.

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seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

Simple_Min

I second that.

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If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.

Sparhawk

Don't you remember, the president said we've already found the weapons of mass destruction. Because two empty abandoned trailers, those are weapons of mass destruction.

I feel lately like America has the memory of a goldfish.

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"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

geep

Give it a rest guys. I grew up hiding under a desk at school because the Soviets where gonna launch the big one. The kids today are gonna grow up believing every time they go to the airport they're getting in a missle. The enemy is terrorism and unlike the Soviet Union it's a little harder to see it plainly. We'll never know if WMD's would ever have gotten into terrorist hands from Saddam's arsenal. No one can honestly deny they existed in Iraq. Quit trying to make the U.S. the enemy. If they find WMDs in Iraq- good for them. If they don't- quit wasting valuable time and resources declaring evil deeds on the Administration's part and start looking for the next source of danger to the worlds well being.

The_Dude

i wouldnt be surprised if they did.

and then, bush is going to visit the country, congratulate the troops.

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"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

james t kirk

Umm, there are thousands of people over there.

And, the big argument is that saddam and co. were manufacturing chemical and biological weapons. If that is the case, you need some pretty sophisticated labs that are none too easy to hide. Especially in a country like Iraq.


I hope you are kidding right.

No-one ever said you were going to get free oil.

The American oil companies are going to get a cheap source of oil and sell it to you at the highest price the market will bear.

All the average american will get is a big tax bill to pay for the war to secure the oil wells for the fat cats who run the oil companies. (That's why the average american family share of the American debt now stands at a paulty $102,000.00 for each and every household in the Untited States.) How do you like that one?

Don't believe me re the debt nightmare you all are facing?

check it out, it plays in Times Square live (I was just there)

http://www.toptips.com/debtclock.html

hotzot

I wish they would hurry up and plant the WMD. This story is so old!

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The Bully Boys are here!

chodarama

Yes, because we will put them there for finding.