01-31-2006, 11:25 AM | #1 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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Psyops + internet = more misinformation
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What does everyone think of this? Is it possible for the DoD to really make a difference by pushing more propoganda on us? Would the same tactics that are fairly successful on television and print be successful on the internet? Am I an enemy of the state for being pissed at the current admimistration? |
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01-31-2006, 12:34 PM | #3 (permalink) | |
can't help but laugh
Location: dar al-harb
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hmm... apparently cynicism is the mark of a good middle school teacher.
the article clearly describes the US military's propaganda as being directed at the enemy, not "us". their concern, in fact, is that such propaganda would be picked up by our own journalist and re-transmitted to domestic audiences. the DoD is doing its best not to push anything on US citizens, i don't see how your concern fits in with the topic. i think you're being melodramatic w/the enemy of the state comment. the thrust of the article brings us this dramatic summation: Quote:
__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill |
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01-31-2006, 12:40 PM | #4 (permalink) | |||
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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01-31-2006, 12:54 PM | #5 (permalink) | ||
can't help but laugh
Location: dar al-harb
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even considering all that, each instance (it seemed to me) was directed at foreign audiences... i don't think you can justify linking it to fears of domestic propaganda with the given information. Quote:
__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill |
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01-31-2006, 01:38 PM | #6 (permalink) |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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I'd be far more worried if the DoD wasn't doing this.
This is the information age, not the industrial age, and information technology is the first thing you attack, even before the enemy troops in any conflict. As for the propaganda, welcome to reality 101, its what all governments do, and have done. There is nothing wrong with presenting your point of view, or getting people to come over to your side. I don't see the situation as extremely dangerous, any more than saying the government controlls the army. If the government becomes 'evil' than we have problems reguardless, if its on our side, we want to make sure we have all the weapons needed to defeat any enemy.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
01-31-2006, 02:23 PM | #7 (permalink) | |||
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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The Smith-Mundt Act of 1948, amended in 1972 and 1998, prohibits the U.S. government from propagandizing the American public with information and psychological operations directed at foreign audiences; and several presidential directives, including Reagan's NSD-77 in 1983. By it's very definition, it's illegal. If propoganda directed at other governments, organizations, or people can reach the American people (like information available on the interweb), it is illegal. Whether my fears of corruption at the DoD are founded or not, it is certianally illegal. Quote:
Last edited by Willravel; 01-31-2006 at 03:31 PM.. Reason: poor wikipedia article link for the Smith-Mundt Act |
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01-31-2006, 03:10 PM | #8 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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01-31-2006, 04:26 PM | #10 (permalink) | |
seeker
Location: home
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TITLE 22 > CHAPTER 18 > SUBCHAPTER V SUBCHAPTER V—DISSEMINATION ABROAD OF INFORMATION ABOUT THE UNITED STATES http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/h...0_18_20_V.html from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_of_America#History The Cold War years (1948-1992) During the Cold War, VOA was placed under the U.S. Information Agency. In the 1980s, VOA also added a television service, as well as special regional programs to Cuba, Radio Marti and TV Marti.
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All ideas in this communication are sole property of the voices in my head. (C) 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 "The Voices" (TM). All rights reserved.
Last edited by alpha phi; 01-31-2006 at 04:32 PM.. |
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01-31-2006, 09:29 PM | #12 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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Sorry, don't see the problem.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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01-31-2006, 09:45 PM | #13 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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The Smith-Mundt Act of 1948 prohibits the U.S. government from propagandizing the American public with information and psychological operations directed at foreign audiences. The propoganda and psyops on the internet, despite their being directed at foriegn audiences, will find Americans. Unless they can prove that Americans can't access or be in some way propagandized by the (mis)information - something impossible to prove, they cannot proceede in this operation.
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02-01-2006, 04:12 AM | #14 (permalink) | |
seeker
Location: home
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have to lie about ourselves in order to prop ourselves up to the people of foreign countries. The truth is a beacon of light that cuts through any darkness. Even the truth "as we see it" is far better than a lie. We now live in the information age. Just as propiganda will find it's way back home. The rest of the story will find it's way back to the targets of said propaganda. If we are indeed embarking on a just and noble cause why is there a need for propaganda? I see nothing wrong with brodcasting the "truth as we see it", to win the hearts and minds of the people of a hostile area. And when it inevitably leaks into our own media there is no harm done. After all it's the truth.....Right? If it's not the truth......
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All ideas in this communication are sole property of the voices in my head. (C) 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 "The Voices" (TM). All rights reserved.
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02-01-2006, 08:11 AM | #15 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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02-01-2006, 08:48 AM | #16 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
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Last edited by filtherton; 02-01-2006 at 08:50 AM.. |
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02-01-2006, 08:49 AM | #17 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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it is useful to know the extent of such operations.
of questionable legality, problematic in the context of a democracy--sure. what states do--sell their politics---obviously. the question is what relation do you adopt to such practices. nothing gets us off the hook--we have to sort, evaluate, interpret, consider information. all the more so now in that so much information is generated by institutions that use the surface features of legitimate modes of inquiry to advance particular, usually profit-driven--agendas (the new widepsread practice of corporations hiring pet scientists to generate experimental "confirmation" of corporate actions/products--particularly active in areas that involve assessments of environmental impact of production practices/products, etc.)---the assumption sems to be that an informed polity is a problem---so flood the polity with often bogus information mingled with other than bogus information and you'll disable debate--while debate spins in circles, hamstrung by problems of information quality, institutions can do as they like...it is a nice feature of living in the states today, this kind of contempt for thinking. if information is problematic, then it become easier to treat political committments are arbitrary. the treatment of political committments as arbitrary explains something of the surreal character of much conservative "thinking"....it is easier to draw hard lines between positions if these positions are as much based on faith as on descriptive power of political positions. such beliefs also make it easier to draw a clear line between "us" and "them"---and in this you see traces of the general trajectory left to right of many of the neocons--this emphasis on clear organizational boundaries comes straight from lenin. no matter, though: state ideology can form the basis for a wrap-around world, prechewed, given in advance, the adoption of which requires no effort. i do wonder, however, if ustwo and irate would hold to the same blase line about this that each outlined above if they disagreed fundamentally with the politics of the administration in power.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
12-26-2007, 06:38 PM | #18 (permalink) | ||||
Banned
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http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...56#post2369056 |
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12-27-2007, 07:33 AM | #19 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: NYC
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The internet raises all sorts of new issues in all sorts of realms. I would suspect that Smith-Mundt doesn't prohibit US govt communications being posted on the net for overseas consumption merely because readers in the US could access the overseas sites. The analogy from pre-internet days would be whether it would be illegal to bring into the US a pamphlet circulated by the US govt abroad. Obviously it wouldn't be, and I don't think we want to live in the sort of police state that would prohibit people from bringing in reading materials from overseas. A website designed for overseas consumption but accessible through the net here is roughly comparable (though not perfectly).
More to the point, though, don't we want to have transparency here? Shouldn't we WANT to see what's going on in other countries, whether it's our own government's actions or other governments'? What is the harm? The other thing is, we have to understand what propaganda is for purposes of the Smith-Mundt Act. I haven't done the research and haven't dug out the definition, but if we're going by the dictionary, then every press release put out by a Congressman, Senator, White House, agency chief or department head is propaganda. That's what propaganda is: self-serving PR stuff. And that's why I think the statutory definition is probably a bit more precise. |
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internet, misinformation, psyops |
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