kalisto_911

A brief background on myself: I am very confused spiritually, but I don't consider it necessarily a bad thing, I think there are defenitely some wierd forces acting out behind the scenes but I don't think any of the major or minor world religions have explained it completely....

anyways I was talking with my Uncle the other day and he was explaining the split in the catholic/christian church and all that and I asked him, "were buddism and hinduism just off doing their own thing during all of this?" and he said yeah pretty much, and he also commented that they, or maybe just hinduism, were forms of satanic worship. Now my uncle is preparing to become an ordained Greek Orthodox priest so I knew I wasn't going to get an unbiased opinion out of him but I am just curious if anyone knows where he is coming from with that statement.

I have studied these religions lightly but nothing too indepth, I am just starting to read the Bhagavad-Gita and I have read Siddhartha and some Alan Watts but I still consider myself a total n00b and I am just looking for some clarification.

so after that ramble if you are still with me then thanks for your input and have a great day!

__________________
I know not how I may seem to others, but to myself I am but a small child wandering upon the vast shores of knowledge, every now and then finding a small bright pebble to content myself with. [Plato]

asaris

The teaching of the Roman Catholic church, which I happen to agree with, is that all religions contain some element of truth. This, in my opinion, means that religions other than Christianity generally originate from human error. You don't need the devil to explain why people sometimes get some things wrong!

__________________
"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

wdevauld

I think your confusion is a good thing, and I'm not going to do anything to help it. I've spent a great deal of time travelling and talking to various people about religion, and I'm going to try and shed a bit more light on some things.

First off, I think all the world religions are 'correct'. Depending on your upbringing, you may have different ideas of what god(s) is(are).

I don't like thinking of Buddism as a religion, as Buddah wasn't a god. Buddism is more of a Moral Code, that helps you in understanding the four noble truths. You can be Buddist and worship within another religion. For instance you could be a Buddist Catholic, there is nothing in Christianity that conflicts with Buddah, as long as you recognize that Buddah was just a guy with really good ideas.

Satanism, probably isn't what you may think. Satanists don't worship a big red dude with horns named Satan, but are more focused on the development of 'self' Some satanists worship themselves as gods. Most often though, Satanists try to get away from the herd mentality that society has forced upon us. This is not to say that there isn't cults of people out there who worship ol'pointy head, there are people who believe drinking blood of another person lets you steal their power. But there is also people out there who believe in Scientology.

Christians, Jews and Muslims are all 'people of the book' They all worship the same god. They just have issues about which chapters of His/Her book to use, and which people in His/Her history were profits, and which were just good people that people wrote about. Jesus was 'King of the Jews' and is worshipped heavily in Christianity. There are a lot of parallels between the Torah, and the Christian Bible. Muslims believe that the word of God (Allah) became tainted by man, and that Mohammed was sent down to give us the second edition.

Hinduism is a complex religion. My gross oversimplification of it is: People are trying to experience the divine supreme knowledge, (known as moska). They believe a lot in Kharma, in that if you do good things you are moving closer to divine supreme, and that bad things cloud your soul and make it harder to recognise the divine supreme. Everything you do leaves and imprint on your soul, and you want your soul nice and clean.

As I said earlier, I believe all the religions of the world are 'correct' I am a spiritual person, who has lost belief in organized religion. I believe that God is so complex that the human mind will never fully comprehend the whole being. What we as humans have done is create avenues of worship around what part of God we can understand. In other words we all worship the same thing, we just have different names and ways of doing it. All religions have similar core values: Be a good person, and do good things. So, in the end, it doesn't matter which way you do it, as long as you: 'Be Good'

If you want this to get weird, I can tell you about what I think God is......

__________________
As soon as you stop living, you start dying....

ratbastid

Couldn't resist plucking this out. Just too damn freudian.

I'd be interested in hearing what has him say that Hinduism is "satan worship". The Hindu religion is polytheistic--ie there are multiple gods, each of which have domain over certain aspects of the universe. Many polytheistic or pantheistic religions are considered heretical by strict Christians. They believe that the worship of natural elements or aspects of the universe is elevating mundane things to the level of the divine, so you can see how that would get blurred together with satan worship pretty fast.

abaya

This is cool. I completely agree, and am glad to know there are similiar thinkers out there.

I also agree with wdevauld that it's good to be confused. I dislike it when people become decided on one thing or another, because then they are not open to change. I mean sure, I guess it's good to know what you believe, but it's also good to not be a hard-ass about it. I think it's great that you are exploring these different religions and philosophies... keep asking those questions.

I recommend any book by David James Duncan. Great reading, very funny fiction, but intense spiritual insights (to me). Sounds like it would be really stimulating for your searching...

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

kalisto_911

Thanks for such an eloquent response, wdevauld! You really cleared some things up for me, even though I realized as I read your response that I had originally known what you were saying, it had slipped my thoughts temporarily, thanks for grounding it again

And now that I know we have very similar beliefs about organized religion and such I would love to hear any other opinions you have on the subject...

EDIT: I googled David James Duncan. and I remember having The River Why in my PILE of books I am currently working through, thanks for the recommendation though, that will give it a tad bit more priority

__________________
I know not how I may seem to others, but to myself I am but a small child wandering upon the vast shores of knowledge, every now and then finding a small bright pebble to content myself with. [Plato]

ngdawg

Since the Old Testament is based on the Torah, and, according to what you said 'all religions contain some element of truth', how is any religion wrong? In three sentences, you contradicted yourself.
Your Christ was a Jew, brought up in the teachings of the Torah and became a rabbi . Even the word 'priest' has its beginnings in Judaism as being part of the Hebrew religious hierarchy. The followers of Jesus, those who accepted him as true Messiah were later called 'Christians'. Maybe they got it wrong?
No religion is wrong if it serves the spiritual needs of the person practicing it, whether it be Catholic, Jewish, or Wiccan.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

asaris

Not really. Just because something a religion teaches is true doesn't mean that everything it teaches is true.

__________________
"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

ngdawg

Your comment was " This, in my opinion, means that religions other than Christianity generally originate from human error".
Judaism, for one can not possibly be derived from human error, since your Christianity arose from it. Opinion or not, it has no basis.
Religion is, in the simplest of lay terms, a faith and/or belief system in a collection of ideals, including the worship of a deity or several deities. As long as harm is not done, as long as it brings a level of comfort and self-awareness, it can not be wrong.
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but this is another case of why religion just irks me to no end. Your belief does not make my beliefs wrong, yet, in the name of Christianity, you feel the need or right to claim so. Do unto others as you would they unto you.....I don't call your beliefs wrong.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

asaris

Judaism is, of course, a special case for the Christian. But while there was a point in time where Judaism contained no error (and I suspect you could read the NT to even disagree with this), that is no longer the case.

Religion, or at least most religions, are not simply "belief in a collection of ideals". Most of them also teach about matters of fact. For example, Christianity teaches that Christ died and rose again from the dead. Buddhism teaches that the physical world is illusion. Islam teaches that Mohammed received the Qu'ran from Allah (I think). These are matters of fact, and so can be right or wrong.

Finally, I should make something clear. When I say that Christianity is true, I mean both that the set of facts that constitute Christianity are all true, and that Christianity is a path to human flourishing. I do not mean that my own beliefs about Christianity are all true, that I know exactly what Christianity is, or anything like that. I'm abstracting to talk about something like the Platonic form of Christianity, because that seems useful for the purposes of this discussion.

__________________
"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

SecretMethod70

ngdawg: I think you're being a bit oversensitive here, no offense. Asaris simply stated what the Catholic Church states: that all religions have Truth, but only Catholicism has the fullness of Truth. This Inclusivism is not contradictory at all. That doesn't mean it's right - but it's not an outright contradiction. Asaris did not insult or judge anyone for not believing what he believes, he simply stated his take on the matter. Besides, merely stating a belief that someone is wrong is hardly disrespectful - the "do unto others" admonition doesn't apply here.

Either way, Judaism can most certainly be derived from human error (again, this does not mean it is so, I'm merely pointing out that asaris' belief is not logically flawed). The history of Judaism is rife with people "on the inside" pointing out that its followers are in error. Christianity is the result of yet another one of those insiders (merely prophet to some, messiah to others) pointing out what he believed to be errors in the practices of Jews. So, from a Christian point of view, the mere fact that someone practices Judaism as opposed to Christianity (remember, the first Christians very likely originally considered themselves Jews, until they were so ostracized by their fellow Jews that they no longer identified with them) means that they are remaining in error. It *doesn't* mean, as asaris pointed out, at least to Catholics, that Judaism doesn't have Truth to be learned from it. It doesn't means Jews cannot find salvation - however one may define it. This belief merely means that Judaism doesn't contain the fullness of truth.

As for me, I find that I lean more towards relativism than inclusivism. Think of it this way: with inclusivism, religion A says X, Y, and Z. Religion B says X, C, and D. Religion A is an inclusivist religion, so it believes that religion B still has Truth but not the fullness of Truth. Relativism is slightly different however - but it is *NOT* an endorsement of all religions and religious practices. With relativism, religion A says X, Y, and Z; religion B says X, C, and D. Religion A, this time, is relativist, and through dialogues with religion B has come to the understanding that X is True (as would be easy to agree upon), Y and Z are True (they are parts of religion A after all), but C is also True - just not necessarily True for the community of religion A. Religion A still rejects D however. For example, I do not like to anthropomorphize the spiritual...you could say I identify it as an essence rather than a person. When I speak of this essence, I tend to use the singular name, God. Others, when they speak of this essence, may use multiple names to identify different parts of the essence. This may be what they identify with best, but it is not what I identify with best. They are right for them, and I am right for me - we are both talking about the same essence, just in different language. So, I don't think that other religions are wrong simply for not being Christian, but I also don't think that all aspects of all other religions are necessarily right. What I believe is that the best way for one culture to identify with "the essence," if you will, is not necessarily the best way for all cultures to identify with it. What is Truth and what is not Truth can only be found through respectful dialogue among those who believe various things, seeking to understand one another, where the beliefs came from, and what is most proper for those who may believe. This is not evangelization, this is discussion.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

raeanna74

Your Uncle was most likely going with much of what is spoken about in the Old Testament. In many instances "God" encouraged the Israelites to wipe out entire cities because the prominent religion in those cities were not the worship of "God" as outlined in Exodus and Deuteronomy. It left no out for any alternate forms of worship.

Today there are those who believe that any other form of worship of ANY higher being, even if people claim to worship the Jewish God, it is Pagan and at it's root a form of worship devised by Satan to draw people away from God. This is what I was taught in my Bible courses at a Northern Bapist college.

__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

loganmule

kalisto, it sounds like raenna has answered your question, if, by satanic worship, your uncle is referring to the fact that all religions other than Christianity are devised by Satan.

Knowing absolutely nothing about Satanism, I read this link:

http://altreligion.about.com/library.../aa052003a.htm

If the summary there is accurate, diverse beliefs are all lumped together under the term...kind of like most other major religions.

Wdevauld, I share your view that all religions are correct and therefore not inconsistent with one another, if viewed as metaphor. The problem arises where practitioners of their faiths see, as literal truth, the "facts" comprising their religions. Incidentally, I don't think it would be OT for you to tell us what you think God is, and invite your response...it can't be a whole lot weirder than the spiritual journey kalisto and others here are engaged in.

Kalnaur

Hindus are not satanists. That's the best I got for ya, besides a simple statement of my own beliefs. I hold that all gods, christian, nordic, hindu, greek, aztec, etc exist; only some are worshiped by me but they still all exist.

__________________
PC: Can you help me out here HK?
HK-47: I'm 98% percent sure this miniature organic meatbag wants you to help find his fellow miniature organic meatbags.
PC: And the other 2 percent?
HK-47: The other 2 percent is that he is just looking for trouble and needs to be blasted, but that might be wishful thinking on my part.

Johnny Rotten

I have this ambivalence as well, and it stems from the schism between faith and doctrine. Believing is actually the easy part. Accepting your religious organization as part of that framework, however, can be a life-long struggle. We're beset on all sides by different doctrines, and infighting within the doctrines we follow. A given individual can walk up to you and make a compelling argument that rips your chosen doctrine to shreds.

The doctrine is created by man, and man errs. I choose to be spiritual instead of religious.

__________________
"The idea that money doesn't buy you happiness is a lie put about by the rich, to stop the poor from killing them." -- Michael Caine

kalisto_911

very well said mr. rotten, that indeed sums up the source of my scattered thoughts about this issue, it is hard to imagine reasons that so, so, so, so, SO many people don't take this stance as well, what do you folks think might be the reasons behind this? Is it strictly people's upbringing that fuses their beliefs to one organization and spawns such credulity?

__________________
I know not how I may seem to others, but to myself I am but a small child wandering upon the vast shores of knowledge, every now and then finding a small bright pebble to content myself with. [Plato]

braindamage351

No, it's a matter of logic. If there is one true religion, shouldn't everybody be practicing it? Anything that isn't well-established is basically just a story that you made up because it sounds good to you. I really don't think you should be allowed to come up with a personal religion unless you've had some sort of encounter with God or something supernatural. There has to be a basis for your beliefs.

Personally, I'm either agnostic or atheist depending on how you look at the world. If you go by the idea that the perceptable world is the one and only world as far as you're considered, than I'm an atheist. If you go by the idea that the "thing-in-itself" (I wish I had a better word for this) is the real world, then God may or may not exist. Either way it isn't rational to factor God into your life.

Willravel

Careful trying to apply logic to religion without a helmet.
Religion should be worked out in one's mind one step at a time.
Does God exist? Do I exist? Di I exist because of God? Who is God? If he or she made me, why was I made/why am I here? Does God want anything of me? Should I do what God does want or not do what God doesn't want? How can I better serve God? etc. etc.
Religion is simply a way to organize the existence or non-existene of God or a higher being. If we were created by a vastly superior conscious, is that conscious automatically God? Ultimately it boils down to what you believe to be correct.

Besides, we'll all find out eventually.

kalisto_911

brain damage, the way I see it you ruined your argument when you started... if one true religion should be practiced by everyone that why do people think that they automatically got it right with theirs and other religions are wrong? According to this chart(which I have no idea of the credibility but it has got to be within millions close):



which of these would you consider well-established compared to "just a story"? And what seperates them besides this important number of followers? How is "the one and only truth" anything but a story?

This Book gave me a lot of perspective when viewing world religions and I think everyone here should read it!

[I wish I had as clever an ending line as willravel!]

Later

__________________
I know not how I may seem to others, but to myself I am but a small child wandering upon the vast shores of knowledge, every now and then finding a small bright pebble to content myself with. [Plato]

MojoRisin

I agree! All religions did originate from error, christianity is not an exception however, and going by kalisto's chart it is our biggest mistake so far. If you want an explanation of religion it's best to look towards its origin, the development of what is good, bad, and evil. These are all human ideas based on the displacement of power from one individual to another. The time for religion on earth has ended, "god" is dead in the hearts those who claim to support it. When you sense the freedom that comes with the knowledge that there is no evil in the world you will no longer be in debt (guilt, guilt, guilt!) to those protecting you from it. We will find our way from this forest yet I do pray. Praise be to Man!!

__________________
Dropping a barbell he points to the sky and says "The suns not yellow, It's chicken!"

Zeraph

I havn't read the whole thread yet so I don't know if someone has brought this up yet, but...

I'm not going to go indepth here, but a quick google search brought up this creed "The Universe was evolved, not created; and it functions according to law, not according to the caprice of any God." I'd say that would conflict with christianity...

Buddhism, like all the other major religions (as far as I know) has broken into many different types, some "buddhists" worship him as a god, when he specifically said not to for instance.

But I do agree with you that (IMO) true buddhism is not a religion, though it would still conflict with worshipping in other religions. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how there could be a buddhist christian or whatever without having conflicts.

ScottKuma

I've said this before, I'll say it again (and this only represents MY opinion)...

God created us, and in doing so, created us with different interests/influences/etc.

S/he knows that each of us is inspired by something different...and that ALL religions are worshipping him/her.

*shrug* If everyone else can be WRONG, can't we all be RIGHT?

__________________
A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take from you everything you have.

GoogleMap Me

SecretMethod70

Yay! I am free! Nothing is evil! *Goes around killing everyone he doesn't like*

That's some pretty suspect logic there.

Aside for how obviously ridiculous that idea is, there are PLENTY of people and religions for which guilt is not a part of life. No doubt, there are many religions based on focusing on the negative of not following rules, but there are also MANY religions whose basis is focusing on living a better, more kind and loving life. A religion with a focus such as this has no basis for its leaders having power OVER its followers, for they are not protecting anyone from anything but, rather, giving guidance, much like a teacher. Buddhism is a prime example (although it is not a religion in most forms)...any perceived "rules" are not some arbitrary requirements of its followers. Rather, they can be more accurately considered as guidelines to living a more peaceful life. If you don't follow them, you are not a bad person, but you may also be missing out on the contentness that you believe Buddhism can lead you to. In this way, choosing a religion is not about deciding which one accurately defines evil and/or protects you from it but about deciding which one leads you to a more peaceful and existence. There are many people within Christianity and other well-known religions who have this kind of relationship with religion as well...don't be so fast to broad condemnation when you clearly speak only from experience with one particular form of religiousness.

Most Buddhism does not make a claim regarding "God" existing or otherwise. Buddhism tends to have an approach of "does it matter?" Meaning, if God exists, great, and if he doesn't, it doesn't change the idea of seeking a more peaceful existence so it is unnecessary to worry about such things. So, it is definitely possible to be a Buddhist Christian, but it would not work with all forms of Buddhism or all forms of Christianity for that matter. As an example though, I once spoke with a man who was a Buddhist Catholic and was studying to become a priest in the Jesuit order.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

MojoRisin

SecretMethod70, unfortunately I am not permitted to post the response I would like. Many people believe that an arguement like this could somehow not be personal.

__________________
Dropping a barbell he points to the sky and says "The suns not yellow, It's chicken!"

Kalnaur

You know, you could have simply taken it as his opinion, but instead choose to take it as a personal attack against yourself.

Gods exist. That is my opinion. If for you they do not exist, then they do not. Simple as that.

__________________
PC: Can you help me out here HK?
HK-47: I'm 98% percent sure this miniature organic meatbag wants you to help find his fellow miniature organic meatbags.
PC: And the other 2 percent?
HK-47: The other 2 percent is that he is just looking for trouble and needs to be blasted, but that might be wishful thinking on my part.

asaris

Bah! If something exists, it exists. Simpliciter. End of story. You wouldn't say that my coffee table exists for me, but doesn't exist for you, would you? You would say that it exists, that I have a coffee table. You wouldn't say that my imaginary friend exists for me, but doesn't exist for you, you would say he doesn't exist! Why God or gods are allowed out of this, I have no idea.

__________________
"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

Kalnaur

If I truly believed that a table did not exist, it would not. Hell, table is merly a name that was given in the first place.

Your god and other people's god are different, even from one catholic to another, or one lutheran to another, or one asatru to another.

Perception is reality.

__________________
PC: Can you help me out here HK?
HK-47: I'm 98% percent sure this miniature organic meatbag wants you to help find his fellow miniature organic meatbags.
PC: And the other 2 percent?
HK-47: The other 2 percent is that he is just looking for trouble and needs to be blasted, but that might be wishful thinking on my part.

kalisto_911

you see a coffee table, I see a leg rest, or a drum, or a weapon, or a bad example =)

glad that this hasn't gotten too out of hand, lets all keep a cool and detached head folks!

__________________
I know not how I may seem to others, but to myself I am but a small child wandering upon the vast shores of knowledge, every now and then finding a small bright pebble to content myself with. [Plato]

c172g

I love the religion discussions. As an atheist, I (don't take this the wrong way) am amazed that humans can be so conceited that they believe they can't just simply die and go away, that there has to be some afterlife because dying is just too much of an ending for them to accept.

Just like the flies you squat with the swatter, and the animals we kill everyday for food (most religions don't have a special "place" for animals, insects, etc. like heaven) I think when you're done you are officially done. Would it be great to die, cruise on up to heaven & hang out with my dad & other friends who are now gone & play cards all day long (of course everyone would always win every hand because in paradise everything is perfect for everyone)? Yep. I highly doubt that's the way it ends up though.

Instead of jumping on any bandwagon, treat people with respect, be nice, try & help out your fellow man & do the best you can do with what you have here on Earth. Prepare for your afterlife by being the best you can. Smile at the stranger walking past you, buy the guy behind who you have never seen before a cup of coffee in the morning, or do some other random nice thing for somebody you don't know. Most will be suspicous, others thankful.

My views, while in the minority, will make you a much better person than attending church once every two months & calling yourself a Catholic, Jew, Hindu, Moslem or whatever course you choose. I know way too many people who claim to believe in God but rarely go to church (the Easter & Christmas gang). I'm not trying to insult those of you who do attend church regularly, don't break the 10 commandments, etc., but religion has become way too much of a convenience thing for most people. They want to claim to know God, believe in him and have the benefits of going to "heaven" but don't do anything their religion teaches unless it's convenient for them. I was in that boat when I finally took a few steps back & decided not to be a hypocrite and go down the path that made sense to me.

I'm not trying to pursuade you to give up any beliefs; but when you do decide, be prepared to follow those of the religion you subscribe to. Make sure you understand all of the things & can swallow the majority of them, as there are MAJOR differences in the Baptist church around the corner & the one across town. Good luck in your decision.

Coppertop

I daresay you're already much more knowledgable about these religions than your uncle.

xepherys

I refuse to allow my faith to be muddled by doctrine. I don't feel the two can acceptably go hand in hand. I am not a Christian, but I believe Jesus lived his life as a good and upstanding man. I am not Muslim, but I believe Muhammed walked the earth and taught his people. I believe there is a greater power, and it could just as easily have spoken to Moses as the burning bush as it could've been Odin conjuring up the spirit of a dead Shaman. Why must mankind always try to enumerate spirituality?

ElvenDestiny

Well my problem with considering other peoples religions is that I believe their "god(s)" are just demigods to the bigger picture, so any religion such as Christianity, Hinduism, Buddha, you name it if it has a god(s) in my belief 'structure' they are all just demigods, and so I guess not to insult anyone Jesus would just be the son of a demigod an just like the other X amount of prophets that fell to the earth to guild.

I guess in retrospect I can almost believe that these gods quarrel with each other and use 'prophets' and their risen followers to help strengthen their power over the world through belief and worship, and try to have people not acknowledge the other gods so that the ones that their quarreling with will have no power over its followers. It’s kind of like the more someone believes in something the stronger it becomes theory.

So why some religions consider other religions devil worship can be explained through that, or it simply could be explained that people fear what they do not understand, or they bad mouth others in hopes to keep their followers following.

It worked for a short time with slavery…… (dont take that the wrong way I dont condon what was done)

__________________

A trees touch could be so soft it could steal you from reality.
A winds whisper could be so fierce it could steal your life away.

el_soulman

Agree for the most part that if something exists, it exists; but can the painting know the painter? The pot the potter? Can the created really know the creator?

el_soulman

My view is that all religion is like a school (just an example, so if you don't like, no problem!): different teachers have come from God over the ages and to different parts of the world, each teaching what is appropriate to the age and people they come to. The prophets of the Adamic Cycle brining teachings that are appropriate for the time and place they came from, Native American prophets bringing understanding that is appropriate to the peoples of that time and place, far eastern/asian - same thing. Are they wrong for coming to a new place/time?

Is it possible that when the teacher in kindergarden/1st grade teaches a young child that you can NOT divide an odd number by an even number, or you get a number that doesn't work; or that you can't take a small number and subtract a larger number; that perchance the teacher might know that at some point in the future, these same children will come to understand the concept of fractions/decimals, and even negative numbers and be able to grow in their understanding?

My feeling is the coming of these teachers from God are like the teachers in school - they all come from the same source, (an Unknowable Essence if you don't feel comfortable with the label of "God") and that they are teaching humanity things that it can handle at the time when that prophet/teacher came. When Christ came 2000 years ago, it wasn't not possible for Him to talk about the unity of the world, as most of the world, as we know it today, was not discovered. Christ himself said he would return in the Glory of His Father to teach us things that we could not bear to learn at that time. My reading of this is: next grade! The world has changed, and we are ready for a new Teacher!

Enough for now, and ask if you have questions.

snowy

Buddhism is great. I love Buddhism. I personally use Buddhist principles and teachings to enhance my practice of Christianity. I find it adds a certain dimension to my faith that Christianity alone does not have.

I would recommend reading some of the Buddhist sutras. My favorite is the Diamond Sutra. There are lots of excellent translations out there.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

SecretMethod70

onesnowyowl, one of the great things that I've discovered is that most/all those great things about Buddhism ARE present in Christianity too. Just have to look toward the proper "teachers." I really like Thomas Merton, about whom the Dalai Lama said, after meeting him in 1968, that he had a more profound understanding of Buddhism than any other Christian he'd known. No question about it, Buddhism and Christianity are different, not just in the language used (Merton calls "contemplation" what Buddhists call "meditation" for example), but in deeper philosophical aspects as well, but there is certainly a "school of thought" within Christianity (and, in my experience, the more liberal groups within Catholicism especially) that shares many of the core tenets of Buddhist thought.

As for el_soulman, I agree with you in the general sense, although not necessarily in the specifics. The important point I would like to make though is that I would characterize humanity as beyond the stage of "teachers" (in the sense you used the term) at this point. Humanity has reached a stage of interconnectedness where I believe its spiritual development can be equated to that of a graduate student. We have all the materials we need; it's a matter of reinterpreting those materials and finding their relevance and meaning for our modern experience. In this exploration, we also have guides available to help us (this is where I believe clergy fit in) - people who have already done this exploration to a significant extent in their own lives. Humanity is capable of being its own "teacher" now through oneness and, of course, openmindedness.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

el_soulman

I'd tend to agree to a huge extent, which is why, in the Baha'i Faith (my religion), there aren't any priests or clergy. I still do think that God has tons of things to teach humanity, thus the necesity of continuing Manifestations from God (Abraham, Budda, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, and most recently Baha'u'llah). But that we have outgrown the need for a clergy telling us what to believe and how to practice. God gave us free will and a brain for a reason, and at some point we have to take responsibility for ourselves! Even in grad school, we get direction from a teacher, and then are told to go learn it, study it, and know it - completely unlike grade school where the kids hands are held all the way through the process.

And I truely believe we are achieving that interconnectedness. Neat stuff!