Meridae'n

If the word actually exists, can someone please explain to me what Lutheranism is and what makes Lutherans any different to other christians?

I put this thread in here as I want a serious response. I've just met a chick who is fair dinkum fucking my universe and she's a Lutheran teacher and her family are devout to the religion, so I want to know a little about it to help me snare this bird. As far as I know it's a bit like the Church of England, but that's all. I don't really want this to turn into a Lutheran vs Rest of the World stoush, and I already know most of you are smarter than me, so let the big words go through to Gilly, I'm just interested in a bit of a description of Luther and the sect in layman's terms.

Cheers in advance

__________________
What's easier to believe: that a guy was born without sex in the manner of several Greek demigods and grew up to be able to transmute liquids and alter his body density yet couldn't escape government execution, or that three freemasons in a vehicle made with aluminum foil in an era before digital technology escaped our atmosphere, landing on the moon, broadcasted from there, and then flew back without burning up?

Phage

Speaking from the perspective of a Baptist with a Lutheran grandfather, and the precious little research I did:
http://linetap.com/trinity/trinity2.htm

Lutherans are Christians of a sect that is midway between Protestant and Catholic. They have creeds and sacraments, but are not part of the Catholic church.

In a practical sense, there is probably very little difference between the rest of the Christian faith. Lutherans might have a bit of a problem with the Catholic faith as it is sometimes not considered truly Christian (the whole Saints thing sometimes goes against what they believe is the very essence of Christianity) and they hold the scripture as being the only authority on the requirements for salvation.

As for a more on-the-surface description of the church and services, the congregation in my experience can be characterized as "old". Lutheran churches often have a problem with numbers dwindling due to death from old age.

In summary if you are Protestant or Catholic you should not have any huge hurdles in theology to overcome.

asaris

Not to be a stickler, but most Christian sects have creeds and sacraments. We just sometimes disagree on how many of each. The difference is that the Lutherans tend to have a 'higher' view of the sacraments than the Calvinistic sects, but a lower view than the Roman Catholics. To use communion as an example, my church teaches that at communion, the bread and wine are symbols of the body and blood. The RC church teaches that they physically become Christ's body and blood (transubstatiaion). The Lutheran church teaches something somewhere in the middle, which I don't really understand, though I know the name (consubstantiation).

__________________
"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

c172g

As an ex-Catholic who married a Lutheran girl, the differences I see are that you A) do not kneel during mass, B) don't jenuflect (sp??? kneel & make sign of cross when you're about to get in the pew), and my personal favorite C) don't shake hands or hug during the "show sign of peace" deal. The whole mass is almost identical to the Catholica liturgy. They do have some different ways of taking communion as well, in our church, everybody kneels (10-20 people at once) in front of the altar (putting the commune back into communion) and the pastor goes by dropping a host into everyone's hands, then everybody gets a little drop of wine in a small container (also nice to see compared to my old Catholic church where everybody was drinking wine from the same glass chalice).

Overall, I'm pretty hip on the Lutheran deal, even though I'm not much on religion. I'd say if you closed your eyes you wouldn't be able to tell whether you were in a Lutheran or Catholic church.

Willravel

We consider ourselves (Lutherans) to be the first protestant branch off of Catholosism after the reformation. We study Luther's small and large catechisms, books written by Martin Luther to explain The Ten Commandments, The Apostles' Creed, The Lord's Prayer, Holy Baptism, and The Sacrament of the Altar. We also study the unaltered Augsburg Confession, the Apology of the Augsburg Confession, the Schmalkald Articles, and the Formula of Concord all of which are included in the Book of Concord. We are also EXTREMLY conservative by nature, thouth that has more to do with church politics than religion.

metalgeek

Lutherns big thing is saved by grace and faith, not by works.
Baptism is as an infant, with confirmation when your in your mid to late teens.
C172G: In my old church we did actually shake hands during the sharing of peace.
The service is typically very liturgical, doens't vary much from week to week, toher than the hymns homily and reading.
heres the wikipedia entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutheranism
I quite like the Lutheran church, and am actually thinking about going back again

__________________
The truth is, wherever you choose to be, it's the wrong place.
Chuck Palahniuk , Diary

greeneyes

There are different synods in the Lutheran faith and they have different beliefs on the topic of communion. I am Missouri Synod and we believe that once the pastor blesses the bread and the wine, it is Christ's body and blood. ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) believes that the bread and wine are a representation of the body and blood and the Wisconsin Synod teaches that the body and blood coexist with the bread and the wine (consubstantiation).

Hope that cleared things up a bit.

__________________
Put the blame on me
So you don't feel a thing

Go on and save yourself
Take it out on me

martinguerre

I reccomend Hillerbrand's "The Protestant Reformation ."
Contains original source documents...it's been rather helpful for me in figuring out just where folks stood. For instance, i didn't know Luther taught predestination.

__________________
For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life.

-John 3:16

c172g

This is one thing about the Lutheran religion that blows me away. My wife's church is ELCA. Even though I'm still by the book Catholic, I can take communion any time I want to fill out the card. In the Catholic church, that's a big no-no. Catholics only, thanks.

My buddy goes to a Lutheran church in town that is Missouri synod, and he can come to our church & take communion, but my wife can't go to his & do the same thing (although his church may frown on that, I'm not sure). My point is that anybody can basically take communion at an ELCA church, but the Missouri synod limits who can take communion. Do I have that correct?

martinguerre

MO synod doesn't practice open table...ELCA invites baptised beleivers, in general practice. so yeah....

__________________
For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life.

-John 3:16

Willravel

LCMS (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod) is known for being eleitist and conservative. The Lord's Supper thing is only the tip of the iceburg.

Yakk

There is a half-decent popularized movie "Martin Luther". Worth watching if you are more of a visual as opposed to reading type person.

The founder of the church is a pretty important person, western-civilization-wise. If it wasn't for the prodistant reformation that he kick started, the entire idea of "seperation of church and state" would never have gotten off the ground.

__________________
Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

greeneyes

I've never known my syond to be that way.

An explanation as to why we do not practice "open table" from the LCMS website:

Basically, we belive that partaking of communion indicates that you agree with the all of teachings of that church. Since there are differences between synods and their teachings, we do not allow others to participate in our communion nor do we allow our members to take communion in the churches of other synods.

This is not because we think we are better, this is because we want to preserve the sanctity of the act of communion.

__________________
Put the blame on me
So you don't feel a thing

Go on and save yourself
Take it out on me

c172g

Hey, everybody's got their own thing. I like the ELCA church we attend, as my mother, who is a good Catholic, gets to take communion with us. If I attend her church, I can't take communion at all since I go to a Lutheran church and haven't been to confession in about 20 years.

TheKak

I'm not real sure I could be a fan of someone who says things like:

From his book, "On the Jews and Their Lies"

Sounds like a real great guy, someone to admire and teach your children about.

__________________
Roses are red, violets are blue, I'm a schizophrenic and so am I.

tspikes51

The Kak, as a Lutheran confirmate, I did some research on Luther's book. I stumbled across an article about the publication on "The Jewish Virtual Library." (link to the article)An exerpt from the article says:

You said in your post:
That's like picking the best apple out of the tree and then not eating it because it has a bruise, or Thomas Jefferson sucks because he had slaves. Catholics wanted to exterminate all non-Catholics, Luther was just being a sore loser. Sure, he had some bad spots, but he had more good ideas.

On the topic of communion, my pastor said that the LCMS only allows members to commune because to allow a non-believer to commune would profane the sacrament.

Another reason that Lutherans are different than other Protestants is that they place a high emphasis on learning the Bible at a deeper level.

__________________
"I'm telling you, we need to get rid of a few people or a million."
-Maddox

Willravel

This is a good example of what I was talking about as far as eleitism.

tspikes51

Will, you're correct there. However, I think that since some people don't have enough respect to pass up communion if they don't fit the requirement of being a believer, the LCMS thought that was a good way to weed out the non-believers. I don't really agree, but wouldn't you be pissed if somebody came in and started playing with the water in the baptismal font??? It's the same thing. Unfortunately, most people don't understand thins about communion.

__________________
"I'm telling you, we need to get rid of a few people or a million."
-Maddox

asaris

Yeah, I can understand the LCMS's standpoint. Our church doesn't do any policing regarding who takes communion, but I would hope that someone who wasn't a believer would refrain from participating, the same way I refrain from participating when I go to Mass. It's just a matter of respect!

__________________
"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

c172g

Still, in our ELCA church you fill out a card every time you take communion. You sign your name and say that you believe in what you are about to do. It doesn't matter what religion you are, as long as you belive what the bread & wine symbolize you are welcome to attend. I assume that people who don't believe wouldn't fill out a card & attempt to take communion.

martinguerre

that's just odd to me. why do they need the cards? the sacrament is between the person taking it and God. God obviously gets it if this person is sincere...

I'm a big believer in that Jesus comes for the lost...make the table open to all who wish to come...

__________________
For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life.

-John 3:16

onodrim

I was raised as a hardcore LCMS and my parents are about as fundamentalist conservative as they come. I'd gone to the same church my whole life until college (and my parents still drag me there when I'm home) and I went to school at the LCMS school associated with the church from 3 year old preschool till 8th grade. I was part of the youth group and had to go to many youth gaterings, which are basically big brainwashing conventions for teenageers. I have a pretty good handle on the LCMS.

Sadly, this statement is pretty much true.

__________________
"The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides"
-Carl Sagan

abaya

I've found Lutherans (and Catholics) to be the most intellectually committed Christians and often pretty laid-back in comparison with mainstream evangelical Christians... I've never had a Lutheran get up in my face about their religion (maybe because most of them are Scandinavian in background?) Then again I am from Seattle and most people there are laid-back in general. But yeah I was confirmed in an ELCA and only know other ELCA's, but we never had to sign cards or anything. I enjoyed going up as a group to kneel and receive communion; it was a time of introspection and humility while waiting for the eucharist, and no one ever asked me if I'd been baptized or not (as it was, I was baptized as an infant by the Lutherans and again by the Baptists, who don't believe in infant baptism!). I always felt welcome taking communion in any church as a result, but I did respect the RC way when I attended mass and abstained from communion then.

Yep, most Lutherans are older... it's a dying breed, unfortunately. That's part of why I ran away to a Baptist church after the Lutherans... I got bored. But eventually I came to respect the Lutheran practices much more than the Baptists, mostly for their quiet faith and hymns that have been around for centuries (as opposed to these pop-music hymns that seem to come and go with the wind). I like stuff that lasts for a long time.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Acetylene

Seeing as you're specifically trying to "snare this bird," you should pay attention to the idea of being saved by faith and grace. She won't want to date someone unsaved, so let her know you have faith and maybe tell her a story about God's grace in your life.

But DON'T LIE. She'll dump you like a hot potato if you aren't believable.

__________________
There's no justice. There's just us.

Dbass

Let me see if I can be fairly comprehensive. Firstly, the Reformation started because of Martin Luther, when he disagreed with Catholic indulgences - paying for absolution for sins you haven't committed yet.
Luther felt that no matter what anybody did, they could not stop sinning. According to Jesus, even thinking anger is a sin, and he tried as hard as he could to not sin, becoming an ascetic monk. Nothing worked, and lo, he decided that the answer was that God's grace saved everyone, not good deeds. Luther gives us the quote "Sin Boldly" and try not to sin, but it's okay if you do as long as you believe in God.
Lutherans have 2 sacraments, Communion and Baptism. These are the two rituals which Lutherans everywhere adhere to.
Lutherans, as the first protestant group, are the most similar to Catholics, and the one main difference is that they do not believe in absolution by a human. It is considered an "old people" religion, not very popular with young people because it is still very traditional in its worship service and viewpoints.

squirrelyburt

Lutherans in general are very conservative, some sects more so than others. I grew up in the Wisconsin Synod which is VERY by the book. So much in fact, the Pastor I grew up under took it upon himself to curse all other religons because of their beliefs or customs of ceremony such as Catholics saying the rosary or praying a Holy Mary. This is why i now question most of my beleifs...but thats another issue. All in all, not a bad bunch, I think I just got a nut for a Pastor. I have a good friend who is an ECLA pastor, he is conservative but also unerstands we are human and will sin.

__________________
If you've ever felt there was a reason to be afraid of the dark, you were right.

Janey

I am United Church of Canada Protestant, so this discussion has been interesting from a Protestant perspective. I have a serious question though, that in the light of the election of a new Pope in Rome is rather timely. I have been asked by the Jewish people where I work, who is the leader of the Protestant faith? I mean (and I do not know the answer myself) is there a general memebrship of all Protestants? Or do the sects have their own leadership? Do the Lutherans follow one leader, and the United Church another, while Baptists & Presbyterians go their own ways? (not to mention the Chinese Mennonites in my neighbourhood)

asaris

In general, Janey, the answer is no. The protestant churches are all separate. I can't speak for other denomination, but my own is governed by a 'synod', a sort of legislative body comprised of representatives of the different churches. I think this sort of more conciliar governance is typical of protestant churches, though.

__________________
"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche