cierah

I original wrote this in my journal but have decided that comments would be appreciated. I was thinking about eternity (whether in heaven or in hell) and was wondering if there is any concept of the past when your soul/spirit is in place of eternity? I am inclinded to say that there isn't, especially in heavan, because if you can know that something happend 'before' (with whatever frame of reference, because the frame or reference would not be time) then you can know that it has passed and therefore you will feel bad that it is over. Besides that point (which is debatable because 'It's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all') there is the idea that if our memories are finate and limited, and we have a concept of the past, eventually our memories will be full and therefore eternity will be over. I am inclined to say that a concept of the past will be included in hell because of the pain the past can bring. It would be a form of torture.

But I know very little and give the question to you, oh wise ones... Is there a concept of the past when your spirit is in a place of eternity?

kramus

Sounds like something a Bhuddist would have 2 cents to share about. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the transient vessel of life is a vital texture to whatever it is that is eternally going on, and when we slip out of that vessel and back into the great everafter we actually were always there but only took an important pilgrimage.

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Phage

I would think that in Heaven your memories would be of joy, and that you would not really be sad that something is over when you can look forward to more of the same wonderful memories. Those memories would either grow into an infinite string of bliss, or we would eventually settle into a limited memory of things past. I would probably prefer the limited memory... you would live forever and be able to rediscover things you had done before!

Hain

My opinions are somewhat skewed from discussion since heaven and hell are non existent in my beliefs. I'm not an atheist, mind you. To me there are only two things after death, either you continue to live on through everyone you know and who they know and so on, through the over-soul, or your existence/soul/spirit/mind does not become part of everything, meaning does not return to the over-soul...

That is my belief. Elements of things we all have potential to do and accomplish become part of the over-soul again. This over-soul has been around for eternity, sure, but I am not dead or alive enough to connect completely into everything to tell you. I figure it will just be pure understanding and without emotion to interfere with the experience and existence granted. Emotion will be there, but the understanding of what those emotions were and are will not hinder your understanding.

EDIT: On another thought, if you are knowledgeable with William Blake and his Songs of Innocence and Songs of Experience: his idea of a being that is an "Experienced Innocent" is what I was trying to describe.

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Holdem Dvorak

I don't think i'm smart enough, or deep enough to answer this. I would like to believe that after I die my crazy state of perception or conciousness lives on for all eternity to laugh at all the mortal earth people and hang out with TUPAC. I believe eternity will be different for all of us, or the exact same for all of us. It makes me wonder. I have never had a connection to god, angels, the devil, or any of these things. I have never felt the presence. If the afterlife exists I strongly believe your past comes with you. I feel this must be so because If you are truly you in the afterlife, your pasts would be essential to your molded conciousness.

I'm very sorry, I like to blabal. So don't blame me, blame Augi I live in a cage in his basement and he made me join.

Min

As I tend to think of eternity, it would bring your memories with you, yet when/where you are, you lose a sense of time passing, thus immersed into the joy(or agony) without thought of it ending. More a lose of tomorrow with a memory of yesterday.

cierah

I think also that your past (memories) would have to travel with you to the afterlife in order that you remain the same person but was wondering more if your soul would experience time in eternity? I think eternity is a difficult concept either with or without a concept of time. I think it's almost an impossiblity because if anything happens to you and you remember it - that is time. If the only thing you see in eternity is that a guy walked past you, and you remember that you will have a concept of time. Time as in before he walked by, while he walked by and after he walked by. Time is a finite concept and therefore time can't really exist in eternaity but eternity can't really exist without time for in saying eternity lasts forever - you are giving it a time frame. Hopefully, I am being clear here but in any rate, thanks for the responses - food for thought is always appreciated.

kramus

Actually I think that we really can't make a meaningful connection of time to the "here after" because really, time is a convenient pattern making idea that we use as an extremely useful meme, or human tool, but really talking about time is looking at something from this side of life. I really don't believe time is anything but another background bit of furniture in the great beyond. Any filled up and tied off bubbles of association that we accessorize the hereafter with (like TUPAC ) really are minor bits of texture the way an individual sand grain on the beach underfoot would be.

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meembo

I think any concept of "the past" would quickly fade, and I think the present would come to mean everything. The past would exist, but it would be as significant as our infancy is to us -- interesting, perhaps, but useless in any practical way.

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Seeker

I think I agree with meembo. If I had consciousness upon passing this experience then the present would come to mean everything, and while in the present then knowledge of everything would be tangible in the moment therefore changing the perspective we use now.

Zeraph

In infinitey or eternity I do not think there is a sense of past or future or cause and effect. For that matter I don't think there is in this reality either, time is an illusion after all.

However, I don't think that a feeling of past, or "over" would have to be bad. It's all about state of mind, personally I watch my life go by in joy, like reading a good book. In a way, I don't like good books to end, but mostly I love it when they do. Hard to explain really.

Hain

:Smacks cage: Who said you can talk! :kiddin':

Once you gain that ever present knowledge, what would past mean once all the past is open to you? I think I am agreeing with Zeraph and Meebo :scratches head:. I say this only to add some levity to the discussion: we need to kill someone for a few minutes and have them tell us what is beyond death. Any volunteers? Dvorak???

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hoosier52

I believe there are indications in the christian bible that we will recognize loved ones that have passed on before us. Maybe that is an indication of some sort of memory. It also indicates a judgement day where everything we've done in our lives is reviewed. Whether this is pulled from our memories or from God's infinite vcr :-) is anyone's guess. The bible indicates there will be no sadness; so I suppose those memories are wiped away or our perspective of them becomes so different they are no longer sad. I guess, there's more questions than answers on this. Interesting subject though.

cierah

That is a very interesting thought. That our memories would be so altered by living in heaven that all memories would be good. I don't know if I agree or not. That would work if the only bad memories you had were memories of things that ppl had done to you, out of misunderstandings. They would have to believe with all their hearts that they were doing the right thing for your perspective to change in such a manner that you would understand why they did it. I think that most mean, evil things done in this world are just that - evil and not done with the idea of good. In those cases it would be impossible to alter your persepective enough to understand and therefore have a good memory of a previously bad memory.

pennywise121

there are many conceptions of the past present in philosophic enterprises throughout history. plato had the conception that our souls have been around forever, adn as such, have learned all there is to know. as such, there is no such thing as learning; only remembering.

Nietzsche had the conception of reincarnation, or at the very least, the reliving of our entire life's events in sequence (based on his idea of "the dice game of existence").

buddhism holds that we are caught in the cycle of birth and rebirth until such a time as we reach enlightenment. this itself has its roots in hinduism's idea about the spheres of existence. we pass from this sphere of existence into one of the heavens and are reborn until we are truly and fully enlightened, upon which we are removed from the cycle and go to another place entirely. unless, of course you become one of the few who have reached enlightenment and choose to put off nirvana in order to help your brothers along the path (more a buddhist idea than hindu, but still present).

hell, even Dante wrote of the possibility of penitence for those in hell, and the possibility of escape from thier tortures and the ascension to heaven, which would imply a past existence not only in the physical world, but also the spiritual.