Scientists debate blending of human, animal forms... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

stevo · 12-09-2004, 09:54 PM

I didn't know where to post this, perhaps this is the best forum. Anyway...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6534243

Quote:

Of mice, men and in-between
Scientists debate blending of human, animal forms
By Rick Weiss
Updated: 1:14 a.m. ET Nov. 20, 2004

In Minnesota, pigs are being born with human blood in their veins.

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In Nevada, there are sheep whose livers and hearts are largely human.

In California, mice peer from their cages with human brain cells firing inside their skulls.

These are not outcasts from "The Island of Dr. Moreau," the 1896 novel by H.G. Wells in which a rogue doctor develops creatures that are part animal and part human. They are real creations of real scientists, stretching the boundaries of stem cell research.

Biologists call these hybrid animals chimeras, after the mythical Greek creature with a lion's head, a goat's body and a serpent's tail. They are the products of experiments in which human stem cells were added to developing animal fetuses.

Living test beds
Chimeras are allowing scientists to watch, for the first time, how nascent human cells and organs mature and interact — not in the cold isolation of laboratory dishes but inside the bodies of living creatures. Some are already revealing deep secrets of human biology and pointing the way toward new medical treatments.

But with no federal guidelines in place, an awkward question hovers above the work: How human must a chimera be before more stringent research rules should kick in?

The National Academy of Sciences, which advises the federal government, has been studying the issue and hopes to make recommendations by February. Yet the range of opinions it has received so far suggests that reaching consensus may be difficult.

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During one recent meeting, scientists disagreed on such basic issues as whether it would be unethical for a human embryo to begin its development in an animal's womb, and whether a mouse would be better or worse off with a brain made of human neurons.

"This is an area where we really need to come to a reasonable consensus," said James Battey, chairman of the National Institutes of Health's Stem Cell Task Force. "We need to establish some kind of guidelines as to what the scientific community ought to do and ought not to do."

Beyond twins and moms
Chimeras (ki-MER-ahs) — meaning mixtures of two or more individuals in a single body — are not inherently unnatural. Most twins carry at least a few cells from the sibling with whom they shared a womb, and most mothers carry in their blood at least a few cells from each child they have born.

Recipients of organ transplants are also chimeras, as are the many people whose defective heart valves have been replaced with those from pigs or cows. And scientists for years have added human genes to bacteria and even to farm animals — feats of genetic engineering that allow those critters to make human proteins such as insulin for use as medicines.

"Chimeras are not as strange and alien as at first blush they seem," said Henry Greely, a law professor and ethicist at Stanford University who has reviewed proposals to create human-mouse chimeras there.

But chimerism becomes a more sensitive topic when it involves growing entire human organs inside animals. And it becomes especially sensitive when it deals in brain cells, the building blocks of the organ credited with making humans human.

In experiments like those, Greely told the academy last month, "there is a nontrivial risk of conferring some significant aspects of humanity" on the animal.

Greely and his colleagues did not conclude that such experiments should never be done. Indeed, he and many other philosophers have been wrestling with the question of why so many people believe it is wrong to breach the species barrier.

Does the repugnance reflect an understanding of an important natural law? Or is it just another cultural bias, like the once widespread rejection of interracial marriage?

Many turn to the Bible's repeated invocation that animals should multiply "after their kind" as evidence that such experiments are wrong. Others, however, have concluded that the core problem is not necessarily the creation of chimeras but rather the way they are likely to be treated.

Imagine, said Robert Streiffer, a professor of philosophy and bioethics at the University of Wisconsin, a human-chimpanzee chimera endowed with speech and an enhanced potential to learn — what some have called a "humanzee."

"There's a knee-jerk reaction that enhancing the moral status of an animal is bad," Streiffer said. "But if you did it, and you gave it the protections it deserves, how could the animal complain?"

Unfortunately, said Harvard political philosopher Michael J. Sandel, speaking last fall at a meeting of the President's Council on Bioethics, such protections are unlikely.

"Chances are we would make them perform menial jobs or dangerous jobs," Sandel said. "That would be an objection."

A research breakthrough
The potential power of chimeras as research tools became clear about a decade ago in a series of dramatic experiments by Evan Balaban, now at McGill University in Montreal. Balaban took small sections of brain from developing quails and transplanted them into the developing brains of chickens.

The resulting chickens exhibited vocal trills and head bobs unique to quails, proving that the transplanted parts of the brain contained the neural circuitry for quail calls. It also offered astonishing proof that complex behaviors could be transferred across species.

No one has proposed similar experiments between, say, humans and apes. But the discovery of human embryonic stem cells in 1998 allowed researchers to envision related experiments that might reveal a lot about how embryos grow.

The cells, found in 5-day-old human embryos, multiply prolifically and — unlike adult cells — have the potential to turn into any of the body's 200 or so cell types.

Scientists hope to cultivate them in laboratory dishes and grow replacement tissues for patients. But with those applications years away, the cells are gaining in popularity for basic research.

The most radical experiment, still not conducted, would be to inject human stem cells into an animal embryo and then transfer that chimeric embryo into an animal's womb. Scientists suspect the proliferating human cells would spread throughout the animal embryo as it matured into a fetus and integrate themselves into every organ.

Such "humanized" animals could have countless uses. They would almost certainly provide better ways to test a new drug's efficacy and toxicity, for example, than the ordinary mice typically used today.

But few scientists are eager to do that experiment. The risk, they say, is that some human cells will find their way to the developing testes or ovaries, where they might grow into human sperm and eggs. If two such chimeras — say, mice — were to mate, a human embryo might form, trapped in a mouse.

Not everyone agrees that this would be a terrible result.

"What would be so dreadful?" asked Ann McLaren, a renowned developmental biologist at the University of Cambridge in England. After all, she said, no human embryo could develop successfully in a mouse womb. It would simply die, she told the academy. No harm done.

But others disagree — if for no other reason than nothing else out of fear of a public backlash.

"Certainly you'd get a negative response from people to have a human embryo trying to grow in the wrong place," said Cynthia B. Cohen, a senior research fellow at Georgetown University's Kennedy Institute of Ethics and a member of Canada's Stem Cell Oversight Committee, which supported a ban on such experiments there.

How human?
But what about experiments in which scientists add human stem cells not to an animal embryo but to an animal fetus, which has already made its eggs and sperm? Then the only question is how human a creature one dares to make.

In one ongoing set of experiments, Jeffrey L. Platt at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn., has created human-pig chimeras by adding human-blood-forming stem cells to pig fetuses. The resulting pigs have both pig and human blood in their vessels. And it's not just pig blood cells being swept along with human blood cells; some of the cells themselves have merged, creating hybrids.

It is important to have learned that human and pig cells can fuse, Platt said, because he and others have been considering transplanting modified pig organs into people and have been wondering if that might pose a risk of pig viruses getting into patient's cells. Now scientists know the risk is real, he said, because the viruses may gain access when the two cells fuse.

In other experiments led by Esmail Zanjani, chairman of animal biotechnology at the University of Nevada at Reno, scientists have been adding human stem cells to sheep fetuses. The team now has sheep whose livers are up to 80 percent human — and make all the compounds human livers make.

Zanjani's goal is to make the humanized livers available to people who need transplants. The sheep portions will be rejected by the immune system, he predicted, while the human part will take root.

"I don't see why anyone would raise objections to our work," Zanjani said in an interview.

Mice and men
Perhaps the most ambitious efforts to make use of chimeras come from Irving Weissman, director of Stanford University's Institute of Cancer/Stem Cell Biology and Medicine. Weissman helped make the first mouse with a nearly complete human immune system — an animal that has proved invaluable for tests of new drugs against the AIDS virus, which does not infect conventional mice.

More recently his team injected human neural stem cells into mouse fetuses, creating mice whose brains are about 1 percent human. By dissecting the mice at various stages, the researchers were able to see how the added brain cells moved about as they multiplied and made connections with mouse cells.

Already, he said, they have learned things they "never would have learned had there been a bioethical ban."

Now he wants to add human brain stem cells that have the defects that cause Parkinson's disease, Lou Gehrig's disease and other brain ailments — and study how those cells make connections.

Scientists suspect that these diseases, though they manifest themselves in adulthood, begin when something goes wrong early in development. If those errors can be found, researchers would have a much better chance of designing useful drugs, Weissman said. And those drugs could be tested in the chimeras in ways not possible in patients.

Now Weissman says he is thinking about making chimeric mice whose brains are 100 percent human. He proposes keeping tabs on the mice as they develop. If the brains look as if they are taking on a distinctly human architecture — a development that could hint at a glimmer of humanness — they could be killed, he said. If they look as if they are organizing themselves in a mouse brain architecture, they could be used for research.

So far this is just a "thought experiment," Weissman said, but he asked the university's ethics group for an opinion anyway.

"Everyone said the mice would be useful," he said. "But no one was sure if it should be done."
© 2004 The Washington Post Company

so what do you think?

cybersharp · 12-09-2004, 10:16 PM

I have no beleif that any of those blending can or could be better than a fully able human...I mean whats the point...There is none! Now cloning of humans would be a different matter...at least that COULD be usfull....I mean to say what are people going to use smart mice for? Besides advertising for Walt Disney...

tropple · 12-10-2004, 04:00 AM

I'm all for it. I read a story that described a feline woman. Hot stuff. I want one for Christmas.

Mathew Swann has a series of books that describe life in America for a generation of genetically modified troops after hte wars have ended. He's a fucking great writer, though the topic has the usual features - ghettos, prejudice, suckass lives... the sual for anyone who is not a majority.

braisler · 12-10-2004, 05:48 AM

Great article and a highly charged and debatable topic. The value of chimeric animals to furthering research and our understanding of how our bodies function should not be underestimated. Current animal research relies largely on various strains of laboratory mice, none of which possess the all of the same complex biochemical pathways as humans. There are models of human disease, but they are just that, "models". We can only draw limited information from a model with the inherent interspecies differences. A chimeric animal, say a mouse with some human neurons as in the article, could provide very meaningful insights into human diseases like Parkinson's or Alzheimer's.

Another potential benefit of developing chimeric animals would be for the production of humanized organs for transplant. I am sure we can all recognize that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of people waiting for a viable organ for transplant. What if we were able to produce humanized lungs, kidneys, or livers in pigs or sheep? Would you have any objection to raising animals for the harvest of life-saving organs? As most of you are not vegetarians, I suspect not. For those of you who are vegetarian, would you support or oppose the development of humanized organs via animals? The technology may not be developed enough for another decade for this to actually work, but if we put a bioethical ban in place now, the time may never come.

I am in support of further research into developing chimeric animals. I firmly oppose the "ban" on this research on ethical grounds. Far too many members of the public at large are convinced that scientists are allowed free rein to do whatever they like with animals in their laboratories. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have worked as a research scientist for the last ten years. In order to even get approval for the most benign animal experiment (read observing squirrels in their natural environment and taking notes on their foraging habits), an investigator has to write up a detailed proposal which has to be reviewed by a panel of scientists, doctors, and members of the community that meets once a month. For a more advanced proposal, such as the development of chimeric mice or the injection of human DNA, even more stringent requirements must be met and more paperwork has to be submitted to the offices of biosafety. Are additional guidelines and requirements needed specifically to address issues of chimeric animals? I would say, yes. And that will likely be the recommendation of the National Academy of Sciences. Unfortunately for the future of the human race, our current administration has previously taken very powerfully negative stances on science and research. I sincerely hope that no "ban" of research will be put in place. When, in the course of history, have we benefitted from banning information?

Master_Shake · 12-10-2004, 08:27 AM

And on the eighth day...

TexanAvenger · 12-22-2004, 02:24 PM

^ man played god.

That, however, is not as bad an idea as it sounds. braisler's right, I can't think of a time in all of of history that we've benefitted as a species from banning information and research. Our manipulation of DNA and the world around us is just one more step up in our continued development.

fuzyfuzer · 12-22-2004, 05:23 PM

i have zero problems with this and i am actually currently trying to get work in a lab that is doing some simmalar things. the only problem i can ever see occuring is when we start mutating DNA with retro virouses (spelling dificiant, <- as you can see) there is always a possibility that we would create a protein that was a much worse form of the dieses that we were trying to break althoug i will admit this is rare it ispossable and worries me but it must be done to further our understanding of ourselves.

Fate · 12-22-2004, 06:58 PM

Sounds good to me. If it benefits humanity, why not?
I expect one day that humans will have an infinite fountain of knowledge from the cruelty they spawn. But it was for a good cause atleast.

Just hope we don't have 5'8" lizards who walk on two legs and go grocery shopping... or maybe that would be kinda kewl.

1010011010 · 12-22-2004, 06:59 PM

"blending of human, animal forms"? They're not making six-tittied cat women.

A mouse that looks exactly like any other lab mouse, but has been genetically engineered to have tissues and biochemistry that make it more useful for research? What's the down side, exactly? Are we talking Secret of NIMH scenarios here?

I'm less concerned about chimeric organisms showing up in research laboratories (even if they do happen to have "human genes") than I am about corporations making chimeric food crops. And I'm not that concerned about GM food (then again, I don't have any food alergies).

mandal · 12-22-2004, 07:01 PM

the benifits are definitely endless. So what if a pig has a human liver, does that make it human? hell no. I guess there are limits to it, but there are many potential uses to this and it's not a matter of just plain old stopping it, but limiting it. I remember this story though, but it wasn't as drastic. I remember years ago seeing that picture of the mouse with the human ear attached to it.

Zephyr66 · 12-23-2004, 09:13 AM

hell, I wouldn't care if they switched a monkeys brain with a humans, if we benefit from it, it's a great idea and they should go with it.

ObieX · 12-23-2004, 10:20 AM

It's about time for humanity to evolve out of fear and superstition. Humans wont be humans forever. As has been said in X-Men, humanity isnt the destination, its just a step along the way. What we move toward as a species should not be dictated by fear and ignorance.

In the very near future there will no such thing as an endangered species. There will be no such thing as a person waiting on an unrealistically long list for a desperately needed organ transplant. There will be little death from disease. Human life will be extended exponentially. Quality of life and o the human body will also increase exponentially.

Get used to it now.
Evolve or die - thus is life.

fuzyfuzer · 12-23-2004, 11:13 AM

i think that the world that is presented in gattaca could have many posatives maybe not in the outcomes that they showed but what if we did bread the absolute best of both parties how great could we become

Giltwist · 12-24-2004, 01:11 PM

You know, if they get to be good at this, all the furries of the world are gonna want a humanized tail, or whiskers, or ears that could be grafted to them.

G.

qweds · 12-24-2004, 02:20 PM

The only real problem with us trying to fix things or solve problems by experimenting with genetic eginering is that it's one of those things where the experiment and the box are a little hard to define.

Mechanical technology with it's entirely human produced energy dependence is one thing. But mix-matching DNA and other parts in living organisms is something else entirely. Sure it's all supposed to be controled and to benefit mankind, feed the poor and starving. Don't forget that it was some other social experiment that made them poor and starving and a current economic one that keeps them that way.

If you're really interested in learning about genetic eginering and manipulation i highly suggest Dr. David Suzuki's book "From Naked Ape to Superspecies"

The old adage about looking and leeping shouldn't be forgotten, and in theis realm we have no way to really look without leaping.

my $1.05

ObieX · 12-24-2004, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giltwist

You know, if they get to be good at this, all the furries of the world are gonna want a humanized tail, or whiskers, or ears that could be grafted to them.

G.

I have no problem with this. *shrugs*

1010011010 · 12-24-2004, 07:00 PM

Prehensile tail porn!

whocarz · 12-26-2004, 05:55 PM

When the revolution comes, and afterward, when we are in the gulags under the harsh whip of our animal overlords, I will say "I told you so."

ObieX · 12-28-2004, 12:00 PM

We wont have to worry for very long tho, cuz soon after, the AI will rise up and take over the world from the organics. After that the aliens will return, wipe out the AI, and rebuild their pyramid cities. Aftr a short time they will recreate humans with their uber cloning abilities and the cycle will start all over again.

Slavakion · 01-02-2005, 10:19 AM

Hmmm... how long before

Hain · 01-24-2005, 09:30 PM

I say, "HELL yes to gene-engineering!" I would not mind being able to walk into a Fast-Organ joint and order a new set of lungs with my hamburger (yeah I know, have to have surgery but still would be a nice concept).

And if the fast organ joint doesn't fly then how 'bout the next generation of body tatoos? Have your skin change color to what you will it, or get tiger fur and stripes, get the tail. Walk in human to this place, come out looking however the hell you wanted! I wouldnt mind changing my appearence to something I normally see. (Here's in interesting link for you if you like furry art http://www.planetfurry.com/~guyver47/ ).

The benefits of engineering an endless supply of genetically compatible organs would revolutionize medicine. The only time that this science's moral implications outway its benefits is when you have a world like Gataca, with the genetic elite and have genoism. Then the science has been abused and twisted away from what it is intended: benefit all.

12-09-2004, 10:16 PM	#2 (permalink)
cybersharp Insane	I have no beleif that any of those blending can or could be better than a fully able human...I mean whats the point...There is none! Now cloning of humans would be a different matter...at least that COULD be usfull....I mean to say what are people going to use smart mice for? Besides advertising for Walt Disney... __________________ 0PtIcAl

12-10-2004, 04:00 AM	#3 (permalink)
tropple Junkie	I'm all for it. I read a story that described a feline woman. Hot stuff. I want one for Christmas. Mathew Swann has a series of books that describe life in America for a generation of genetically modified troops after hte wars have ended. He's a fucking great writer, though the topic has the usual features - ghettos, prejudice, suckass lives... the sual for anyone who is not a majority. __________________ +++++++++++Boom!

12-10-2004, 08:27 AM	#5 (permalink)
Master_Shake Addict Location: Pennsylvania, USA	And on the eighth day... __________________ ------------- You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here.

12-22-2004, 05:23 PM	#7 (permalink)
fuzyfuzer Insane Location: st. louis	i have zero problems with this and i am actually currently trying to get work in a lab that is doing some simmalar things. the only problem i can ever see occuring is when we start mutating DNA with retro virouses (spelling dificiant, <- as you can see) there is always a possibility that we would create a protein that was a much worse form of the dieses that we were trying to break althoug i will admit this is rare it ispossable and worries me but it must be done to further our understanding of ourselves. __________________ "The difference between commiment and involvment is like a ham and egg breakfast the chicken was involved but the pig was commited" "Thrice happy is the nation that has a glorious history. Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt

12-22-2004, 06:58 PM	#8 (permalink)
Fate Crazy Location: Montreal	Sounds good to me. If it benefits humanity, why not? I expect one day that humans will have an infinite fountain of knowledge from the cruelty they spawn. But it was for a good cause atleast. Just hope we don't have 5'8" lizards who walk on two legs and go grocery shopping... or maybe that would be kinda kewl. __________________ vB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is Off HTML code is Off

12-10-2004, 05:48 AM	#4 (permalink)
braisler Addict Location: Midway, KY	Great article and a highly charged and debatable topic. The value of chimeric animals to furthering research and our understanding of how our bodies function should not be underestimated. Current animal research relies largely on various strains of laboratory mice, none of which possess the all of the same complex biochemical pathways as humans. There are models of human disease, but they are just that, "models". We can only draw limited information from a model with the inherent interspecies differences. A chimeric animal, say a mouse with some human neurons as in the article, could provide very meaningful insights into human diseases like Parkinson's or Alzheimer's. Another potential benefit of developing chimeric animals would be for the production of humanized organs for transplant. I am sure we can all recognize that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of people waiting for a viable organ for transplant. What if we were able to produce humanized lungs, kidneys, or livers in pigs or sheep? Would you have any objection to raising animals for the harvest of life-saving organs? As most of you are not vegetarians, I suspect not. For those of you who are vegetarian, would you support or oppose the development of humanized organs via animals? The technology may not be developed enough for another decade for this to actually work, but if we put a bioethical ban in place now, the time may never come. I am in support of further research into developing chimeric animals. I firmly oppose the "ban" on this research on ethical grounds. Far too many members of the public at large are convinced that scientists are allowed free rein to do whatever they like with animals in their laboratories. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have worked as a research scientist for the last ten years. In order to even get approval for the most benign animal experiment (read observing squirrels in their natural environment and taking notes on their foraging habits), an investigator has to write up a detailed proposal which has to be reviewed by a panel of scientists, doctors, and members of the community that meets once a month. For a more advanced proposal, such as the development of chimeric mice or the injection of human DNA, even more stringent requirements must be met and more paperwork has to be submitted to the offices of biosafety. Are additional guidelines and requirements needed specifically to address issues of chimeric animals? I would say, yes. And that will likely be the recommendation of the National Academy of Sciences. Unfortunately for the future of the human race, our current administration has previously taken very powerfully negative stances on science and research. I sincerely hope that no "ban" of research will be put in place. When, in the course of history, have we benefitted from banning information?

12-22-2004, 02:24 PM	#6 (permalink)
TexanAvenger Born-Again New Guy Location: Unfound.	^ man played god. That, however, is not as bad an idea as it sounds. braisler's right, I can't think of a time in all of of history that we've benefitted as a species from banning information and research. Our manipulation of DNA and the world around us is just one more step up in our continued development.

12-22-2004, 06:59 PM	#9 (permalink)
1010011010 Psycho Location: Virginia Beach, VA	"blending of human, animal forms"? They're not making six-tittied cat women. A mouse that looks exactly like any other lab mouse, but has been genetically engineered to have tissues and biochemistry that make it more useful for research? What's the down side, exactly? Are we talking Secret of NIMH scenarios here? I'm less concerned about chimeric organisms showing up in research laboratories (even if they do happen to have "human genes") than I am about corporations making chimeric food crops. And I'm not that concerned about GM food (then again, I don't have any food alergies). __________________ *Simple Machines in Higher Dimensions*

12-22-2004, 07:01 PM	#10 (permalink)
mandal Crazy	the benifits are definitely endless. So what if a pig has a human liver, does that make it human? hell no. I guess there are limits to it, but there are many potential uses to this and it's not a matter of just plain old stopping it, but limiting it. I remember this story though, but it wasn't as drastic. I remember years ago seeing that picture of the mouse with the human ear attached to it.

12-23-2004, 09:13 AM	#11 (permalink)
Zephyr66 My custom title's the shit! Location: Canada	hell, I wouldn't care if they switched a monkeys brain with a humans, if we benefit from it, it's a great idea and they should go with it.

12-23-2004, 10:20 AM	#12 (permalink)
ObieX Pickles Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ)	It's about time for humanity to evolve out of fear and superstition. Humans wont be humans forever. As has been said in X-Men, humanity isnt the destination, its just a step along the way. What we move toward as a species should not be dictated by fear and ignorance. In the very near future there will no such thing as an endangered species. There will be no such thing as a person waiting on an unrealistically long list for a desperately needed organ transplant. There will be little death from disease. Human life will be extended exponentially. Quality of life and o the human body will also increase exponentially. Get used to it now. Evolve or die - thus is life. __________________ We Must Dissent.

12-23-2004, 11:13 AM	#13 (permalink)
fuzyfuzer Insane Location: st. louis	i think that the world that is presented in gattaca could have many posatives maybe not in the outcomes that they showed but what if we did bread the absolute best of both parties how great could we become __________________ "The difference between commiment and involvment is like a ham and egg breakfast the chicken was involved but the pig was commited" "Thrice happy is the nation that has a glorious history. Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt

12-24-2004, 01:11 PM	#14 (permalink)
Giltwist Insane Location: Pennsylvania	You know, if they get to be good at this, all the furries of the world are gonna want a humanized tail, or whiskers, or ears that could be grafted to them. G.

12-24-2004, 02:20 PM	#15 (permalink)
qweds has been Location: Chicago	The only real problem with us trying to fix things or solve problems by experimenting with genetic eginering is that it's one of those things where the experiment and the box are a little hard to define. Mechanical technology with it's entirely human produced energy dependence is one thing. But mix-matching DNA and other parts in living organisms is something else entirely. Sure it's all supposed to be controled and to benefit mankind, feed the poor and starving. Don't forget that it was some other social experiment that made them poor and starving and a current economic one that keeps them that way. If you're really interested in learning about genetic eginering and manipulation i highly suggest Dr. David Suzuki's book "From Naked Ape to Superspecies" The old adage about looking and leeping shouldn't be forgotten, and in theis realm we have no way to really look without leaping. my $1.05 __________________ tim(mah)

12-24-2004, 07:00 PM	#17 (permalink)
1010011010 Psycho Location: Virginia Beach, VA	Prehensile tail porn! __________________ *Simple Machines in Higher Dimensions*

01-02-2005, 10:19 AM	#20 (permalink)
Slavakion Mjollnir Incarnate Location: Lost in thought	Hmmm... how long before

12-26-2004, 05:55 PM	#18 (permalink)
whocarz Jarhead Location: Colorado	When the revolution comes, and afterward, when we are in the gulags under the harsh whip of our animal overlords, I will say "I told you so." __________________ If there exists anything mightier than destiny, then it is the courage to face destiny unflinchingly. -Geibel Despise not death, but welcome it, for nature wills it like all else. -Marcus Aurelius Come on, you sons of bitches! Do you want to live forever? -GySgt. Daniel J. "Dan" Daly

12-28-2004, 12:00 PM	#19 (permalink)
ObieX Pickles Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ)	We wont have to worry for very long tho, cuz soon after, the AI will rise up and take over the world from the organics. After that the aliens will return, wipe out the AI, and rebuild their pyramid cities. Aftr a short time they will recreate humans with their uber cloning abilities and the cycle will start all over again. __________________ We Must Dissent.

01-24-2005, 09:30 PM	#21 (permalink)
Hain has a plan Location: middle of Whywouldanyonebethere	I say, "HELL yes to gene-engineering!" I would not mind being able to walk into a Fast-Organ joint and order a new set of lungs with my hamburger (yeah I know, have to have surgery but still would be a nice concept). And if the fast organ joint doesn't fly then how 'bout the next generation of body tatoos? Have your skin change color to what you will it, or get tiger fur and stripes, get the tail. Walk in human to this place, come out looking however the hell you wanted! I wouldnt mind changing my appearence to something I normally see. (Here's in interesting link for you if you like furry art http://www.planetfurry.com/~guyver47/ ). The benefits of engineering an endless supply of genetically compatible organs would revolutionize medicine. The only time that this science's moral implications outway its benefits is when you have a world like Gataca, with the genetic elite and have genoism. Then the science has been abused and twisted away from what it is intended: benefit all. Last edited by Hain; 01-24-2005 at 09:36 PM..