tecoyah

Is it possible, that by expecting to be happy in this life, we are indeed setting ourselves up for unhappiness?
Does the need to be happy, comfortable, or whatever you wish to call it, make the reality of such a thing....impossible?

In my opinion, there will never be complete happiness for the thinking mind.
But there can be fullfilment, and acceptance of reality.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

wilbjammin

The only way to be happy is to continue to strive for something, or to annihiliate one's desires. Happiness cannot come from inaction.

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Innominate.

powerclown

Happiness Happens.

Lebell

The buddhist's answer is yes.

My own answer is that happiness is a side benefit of knowing oneself and therefor, shouldn't be the goal.

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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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martinguerre

not at all. if that desire leads you to value time spent with friends, extending hospitality, and doing what makes you feel happy, useful and right with the universe...

personally, i simply don't get the desire=suffering stuff. desires will not always be met in easy ways. wishing for a new car doesn't make one appear. but a desire to live correctly can inspire the strength necessary to make the best of this existance.

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For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life.

-John 3:16

noodles

can happiness even come to be whole? is there a state of happiness in which you think "i can't be any happier" and it literally be true?

one will never be happy enough if happiness is the end goal. happiness is something that comes from living life and pursuit of other goals.

flstf

I think your chances of being happy (content, or whatever) are better if you expect to be than if you expect to be unhappy. It seems that some folks manage to be happy no matter what life throws their way and visa versa. It may be like a self-fullfilling prophesy.

I also think it is probably harder for a thinking mind (or someone who cares) to find contentment. It is easy to get disheartened in a world with so much pain and suffering. There is probably something to the saying that "Ignorance is bliss". The problem with ignorance is that one may not appreciate the beauty and wonder in the world as well.

To find contentment in a world where we have no idea where we came from and no idea where we are going is difficult. I think the majority of people latch on to the religion they were brought up with and don't worry about it much anymore. For those of us who are unsure it probably helps to have a sense of humor.

d*d

Happiness is a lie fed to us by the corporate companies as a means of control to make sure we keep buying all their things which will make us all happier people (should this be in paranoia?). Seriously I think happiness is an emotion, it can come from little things or major achievements over time - a sunset, a movie, a compliment, winning something - different things for different people.
It's a nice feeling but be warned we HAVE to be unhappy at some point to make the happy feeling relevant and worthwhile so if you did find a state of ultimate fullfillment/happiness you would get bored (and unhappy with it)

zen_tom

Happiness, like anything else can only be a transitory thing, something that comes and goes. I don't think it's something we 'need', in fact I do think it's something we are unable to avoid. Even in the most horrible situations, there will be fleeting moments of joy. It is one of the things that, I suppose makes us what we are. What I do think is important is the ability to appreciate it when it comes, rather than to prematurely chase it away in an attempt to capture it.

Daoust

I think what makes people unhappy is that in their never ending search for happiness (which all humans are doing, whether they recognize it or not) they keep stumbling upon things that they think will make them happy, but really end up making them even more unhappy. I think people actually look to find happiness in a good joint, or a night of drinking, or sex. And I think that at the end of that search, when they've tried those avenues, they find that there really is no true, lasting satisfaction therein. So they continue in their search, oftentimes coming back to those same pleasures they sought refuge in before, already knowing that they will not provide that happiness. The pattern is cyclical, depressing, and never ending, unless you do at last find what true happiness is. I suggest to you that there is such a thing as true happiness. I suggest every human can find it. I further suggest that most of us already know what it is, and some acknowledge it, and some spend all of their lives rejecting it...

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I have faith in a few things - divinity and grace
But even when I'm on my knees I know the devil preys

asaris

What do you mean by happiness? If you mean something like the standard meaning, then no, we will never find lasting happiness in this vale of tears. Sure, we'll have transitory happiness, but our knowledge of its transitoriness will mean that it won't *really* be happiness.

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"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

st33lr4t

i think happiness is a byproduct of a choice based on the understanding of ones self. skipping the choice and going right to the byproduct ignores our understanding of ourself which gives us a false sense of happiness. this false sense of happiness will lead us into a life long battle against happiness and unhappiness, instead of embracing and learning from the byproduct of our choices.

so yes, expecting to be happy will only bring unhappiness.

actually achieving a life long happiness is i feel indeed possible.

GWestling

Because it is such a complicated question, I'm going to focus on the language at hand. An important word here is "expecting" because it implies that happiness is a state of normalcy. To some extent, the fields of psychology and psychiatry suggest this, though that's a tangent for another thread.

Suffice it to say that I don't think the expectation of happiness prohibits it. I have a difficult time participating in the oft-quoted practice of "Don't expect ________, then when you get it you'll be pleased, but not disappointed when you don't." Your question seems to me to be a logical extension of that, i.e. not getting what you expect is disappointing. I think that both phrasings of it focus too much on the expecting and not enough on the acquisition (or lack thereof) of happiness.

It might also be worthwhile to consider what are realistic expectations in regard to happiness. However, I personally believe that some unrealistic expectations are both healthy and worthwhile.

Regards.

MacGuyver

Happiness is....

exactly what you want it to be. Happiness can be a form of acceptance with the reality that you might not achieve all of your goals and whatnot. As long as a person has thte ability to feel good about what they are doing, there will be happiness.

Happiness can be crushed by outside forces like parents, freinds, anything that gets in your way. Thats kind of a "no shit" statement but, when I think about philosophy, I like to think of things in the broader, "no shit" sense. Otherwise, we probably wouldn't be able to answer alot of these questions. Details get messy.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit.
---Aristotle

Deeds, not words, shall speak [for] me.
---John Fletcher

cybersharp

Well its a very good question...I actualy have been wondering about it alot latly as well. The conclusion that I came to was about the same as yours.(points to area with Astertisk's above).

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0PtIcAl

filtherton

Happiness is a choice. Not allowing yourself to be happy results in unhappiness.

cybersharp

Are you saying that if a persons whole family died...It would be their fault that they where unhappy about their family being killed?

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0PtIcAl

filtherton

That's what i'm saying. Though under those circumstances you could hardly blame them for not being happy.

Suave

That's exactly it. This idea is very in-line with Zen and Buddhist philosophy. If you require some combination of factors to be happy, then you will never remain happy for long, if at all.

edit: Well, the second paragraph there isn't exactly in-line with them, but the first one definitely is.

martinguerre

i don't trust people who don't grieve.

it simply this...the normative state of the human being is not happiness. why?

there is NO normative state for a human being. we react to what is going on, process information, create our response, etc... to say that it's a choice to feel happy in that situation is just BS. yeah, they can chose to be happy, they can chose to breathe water, too.

hope you don't go saying that at funerals.

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For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life.

-John 3:16

filtherton

I don't subject people to my perspective unless they ask.

On the thankfully rare occasion that somebody i know dies, i always feel a certain amount of happiness thinking about how fortunate i am to have had this person as a part of my life, and how fortunate i am to have all the relationships that i do have. There is also a sense of loss, though nothing makes you appreciate what you do have like confronting the fact that it is all transitory. I guess maybe you might define happiness differently than i do, but i think it is quite possible to grieve and experience happiness at the same time.

:::OshnSoul:::

The fact is that we connect desire with not having. The more we desire/need, the more it pushes us into thinking that we don't or will ever have it, making us desire/need more, therefore being miserable or unhappy.
If we see that desire then visualize it as actually having it, then it will be there. The force of life will work in sync with you if you don't fight it off with negative thoughts.

ratiocination

I think that the desire for happiness could be one of the qualities that has been created in man over years of evolution to push him to work harder and continue to live and survive. This could be likened to man's pursuit for knowledge. The desire for happiness may stop at some time in your life, for example when you have your first baby or when your son or daughter graduates from college. But perhaps we will never reach a state of permanent happiness .. but that does not mean we are happy. I dont think that it is people for a person to be always continuously in a state of happiness, and it is because of this that we desire to be happy, and this is a realistic desire.