Movie: What the BLEEP do we know? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Nazggul · 11-22-2004, 12:19 PM

I just saw this movie last night;

What the BLEEP do we know?

The movie attempts to apply Quantum Physics (physics at the sub-atomic level) to our every day life. It is a confluence of Physics, Philosophy, Religion, History and a touch of Spiritual Enlightenment. Ultimately I came away feeling like someone just tried to sell me a personal self-help / feel better about yourself plan using Quantum Physics as a real scientific foundation.

If you know anything about physics you are likely aware that there is a branch of physics that explain the everyday environment we live in (Newtonian physics) as well as Quantum Mecahnics (physics at the sub-atomic level), used to explain the behavior of extremely small particles moving at very high speeds. You cannot use one to define the other, the rules simply don't apply. This has lead to the more recent study of concepts like String Theory and the General Unified Theory which is the goal of many scientists today, to come up with the "theory of everything." A theory that will work in the Newtonian world as well as one that works in the Sub Atomic world.

Anyhow, If this is a topic that interests you I would recomend checking it out, otherwise take a pass. There was also a very interesting debate on public radio recently including the guy who made the movie and some of the scientists who participated. http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2...014_b_main.asp

At a minimum, the idea makes you think. I find that I come down more on the side of hard science on this one.

...

CSflim · 11-22-2004, 01:58 PM

From RogerEbert.com:

Quote:

What the #$*! Doc's a hoax

Q. While the film "What the #$*! Do We Know!?" parades itself as a tell-all about quantum physics, it turns out that it's actually a 111-minute infomercial for ... that's right, the Ramtha School of Enlightenment. In fact, the three filmmakers, [William] Arntz, [Betsy] Chasse and [Mark] Vicente, are all devotees of Ramtha.

There's little to no accurate science in the film, and, as a physicist pointed out recently in your Answer Man column, the individuals who are quoted are pretty far from qualified experts on the field of quantum mechanics. Case in point: One of the persons expounding on causality and quantum physics (Dispenza) is a chiropractor. The film's sole purpose appears to be to promote the ideology of the Ramtha School of Enlightenment. A quick browse through their Web site will clearly demonstrate that the film's pseudoscientific nonsense comes straight from the teachings of the RSE.

Rubin Safaya, Edina, Minn.

A. Several other readers also unmasked the documentary as a hoax. I knew there had to be something fishy when the expert who made the most sense was channeling a 35,000-year-old seer from Atlantis.

I have not seen this film, so I cannot directly comment, but I am well used to the popular works of "Quantum Bullshit" that have been doing the rounds lately.

Nazggul · 11-22-2004, 04:06 PM

The commentary on theconnection.org link I posted above is pretty interesting. They rip into the film's representatives pretty hard. It is 50 minutes in length though.

Contrary to this, there is a fantastic book I recently read called "Alpha & Omega ." It is an understandably written book that outlines these concepts well.

Nazggul · 11-23-2004, 08:34 AM

More From RogerEbert.com:

Quote:

Q. Regarding your Answer Man item about "What the #$*! Do We Know" being a hoax perpetrated by the Ramtha School of Enlightenment: Did you or your readers go out and sign up for Ramtha's school? No, and neither did I. Instead I walked away absolutely astounded by the insights into my own life experience and the direction that I needed to go in order to affect my life in a positive way.

Whether the scientists in the film are "experts" or not (who defines these terms, anyway?), I found their insights and perspectives extremely helpful. The filmmakers encourage us to begin to understand the theory of quantum physics and start to ask ourselves questions that will lead us to a mindful life.

Kiara Lee, Berkeley, Calif.

A. I also received a sharply worded letter from Mark Vicente, Betsy Chasse and William Arntz, the co-directors, defending the stature of their experts and the integrity of the film.

"What the #$*@!" has turned into a sleeper hit around the country, drawing repeat audiences and generating strong word of mouth. I felt a certain affection for the film, although as my original review indicated, the "movie that attempts to explain quantum physics in terms anyone can understand. It succeeds, up to a point. I understood every single term. Only the explanation eluded me."

Among the experts on the screen, I wrote, "only one seemed to make perfect sense to me. This was a pretty, plumpish blond woman with clear blue eyes, who looked the camera straight in the eye, seemed wise and sane, and said that although the questions might be physical, the answers were likely to be metaphysical. Since we can't by definition understand life and the world, we might as well choose a useful way of pretending to."

This woman, I later learned, was the psychic JZ Knight, who channels a 35,000-year-old mystical sage from the lost continent of Atlantis. Still later, a letter to the Answer Man from an actual physicist, Rubin Safaya, informed me: "The individuals who are quoted are pretty far from qualified experts on the field of quantum mechanics."

The film is what it is, a group of people trying to explain the nature of reality. The confusion comes if you think they are discussing physics, when in fact they are discussing metaphysics. There is nothing wrong with having a belief system and using it to fashion your worldview; the error comes in ascribing scientific truth to what is by definition a matter of faith.

The argument between Darwinians and Creationists is similar: Darwinians use science, Creationists use faith. "Creationist science" is laughed at by reputable scientists because it tries to use its easily refuted "science" to explain a belief that grows from and depends entirely on faith. By the same token, although the Ramtha School may indeed have valuable insights into the nature of reality, it is misleading to present them as science.

Zeraph · 11-23-2004, 11:27 AM

You went to see a movie...in a movie theatre. Were you expecting enlightenment? This isn't so much directed at the OP, I'm just sick of people going to entertainment and being disapointed it didn't contain the meaning of life.

Nazggul · 11-23-2004, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeraph

You went to see a movie...in a movie theatre. Were you expecting enlightenment? This isn't so much directed at the OP, I'm just sick of people going to entertainment and being disapointed it didn't contain the meaning of life.

Not at all. I don't "seek enlightenment" in a movie theater or anywhere else for that matter. I went to the movie under the pretext that it was on the topic of Quantum Physics, a topic of which I have some interest. Instead, I came away feeling as though I was being sold a concept of spiritual enlightenment using Quantum Physics as the foundation. In reality, the science behind their idea is grossly misused.

Zeraph · 11-23-2004, 05:05 PM

"using Quantum Physics as the foundation. In reality, the science behind their idea is grossly misused."

Agreed.

W4K3_U?_! · 11-27-2004, 10:26 PM

I listened to the 50 min radio show. Well kind of, I was browsing some nice & sometimes distracting artwork simaltaneously. I thought the arguments were entertaining. The participants were obviously well informed about the movie and all that it entails. The show did end up being a bit circular near the end where the discussion of Heisenberg's uncertainty principle (when something is observed it is changed) was the crucial point of disagreement. Conscious intstruments or not, when a particle or any object is observed, that object is changed. The gentlemen who studied physics at MIT and Philosophy at Harvard had a good point but unfortunatley his arguments were more assetions than anything else. The director of the movie handled the callers well but what he had to say sounded too rehearsed, as if it made no difference what questions were asked.
I did see the movie in theaters and interstingly enough in the very town the Ramtha mansion is located. Yelm, WA is a small out of the way town where the movie theatre is probably the biggest building there...well aside from the library which is quite impressive. I'm not sure but I think both were funded by the local organization. I remember on the way to theaters I was joking about the group. I had no idea they were behind the movie until coming across this forum. It makes sense now, but I think it has little impact on the movie.
It's a difficult subject to make a movie about, let alone one for national theaters. I applaud their effort to explain contemporary theory in terms a young teenager could understand. And yet, the whole time when I was watching the movie I was in a reverie of dissapointment. It is just not possible to understand and then retain the fundamentals of quantum-mechanics in a couple hours. I don't fault them for it, it is an excellent overview of a very complicated set of ideas. It's more engaging than a Cal. Tech. video in technical regards. It's nothing like Waking Life in terms of cold hard philosophy.
And as for What the &*$% Do We Know being a Ramtha seminar... well, who knows, I always thought they kept to themselves.

11-22-2004, 12:19 PM	#1 (permalink)
Nazggul Psycho Location: San Francisco	Movie: What the BLEEP do we know? I just saw this movie last night; What the BLEEP do we know? The movie attempts to apply Quantum Physics (physics at the sub-atomic level) to our every day life. It is a confluence of Physics, Philosophy, Religion, History and a touch of Spiritual Enlightenment. Ultimately I came away feeling like someone just tried to sell me a personal self-help / feel better about yourself plan using Quantum Physics as a real scientific foundation. If you know anything about physics you are likely aware that there is a branch of physics that explain the everyday environment we live in (Newtonian physics) as well as Quantum Mecahnics (physics at the sub-atomic level), used to explain the behavior of extremely small particles moving at very high speeds. You cannot use one to define the other, the rules simply don't apply. This has lead to the more recent study of concepts like String Theory and the General Unified Theory which is the goal of many scientists today, to come up with the "theory of everything." A theory that will work in the Newtonian world as well as one that works in the Sub Atomic world. Anyhow, If this is a topic that interests you I would recomend checking it out, otherwise take a pass. There was also a very interesting debate on public radio recently including the guy who made the movie and some of the scientists who participated. http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2...014_b_main.asp At a minimum, the idea makes you think. I find that I come down more on the side of hard science on this one. ... __________________ "If something has to give then it always will." -- Editors

11-22-2004, 04:06 PM	#3 (permalink)
Nazggul Psycho Location: San Francisco	The commentary on theconnection.org link I posted above is pretty interesting. They rip into the film's representatives pretty hard. It is 50 minutes in length though. Contrary to this, there is a fantastic book I recently read called "Alpha & Omega ." It is an understandably written book that outlines these concepts well. __________________ "If something has to give then it always will." -- Editors

11-23-2004, 11:27 AM	#5 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	You went to see a movie...in a movie theatre. Were you expecting enlightenment? This isn't so much directed at the OP, I'm just sick of people going to entertainment and being disapointed it didn't contain the meaning of life.

11-23-2004, 05:05 PM	#7 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	"using Quantum Physics as the foundation. In reality, the science behind their idea is grossly misused." Agreed.

11-27-2004, 10:26 PM	#8 (permalink)
W4K3_U?_! Upright Location: Washington State	I listened to the 50 min radio show. Well kind of, I was browsing some nice & sometimes distracting artwork simaltaneously. I thought the arguments were entertaining. The participants were obviously well informed about the movie and all that it entails. The show did end up being a bit circular near the end where the discussion of Heisenberg's uncertainty principle (when something is observed it is changed) was the crucial point of disagreement. Conscious intstruments or not, when a particle or any object is observed, that object is changed. The gentlemen who studied physics at MIT and Philosophy at Harvard had a good point but unfortunatley his arguments were more assetions than anything else. The director of the movie handled the callers well but what he had to say sounded too rehearsed, as if it made no difference what questions were asked. I did see the movie in theaters and interstingly enough in the very town the Ramtha mansion is located. Yelm, WA is a small out of the way town where the movie theatre is probably the biggest building there...well aside from the library which is quite impressive. I'm not sure but I think both were funded by the local organization. I remember on the way to theaters I was joking about the group. I had no idea they were behind the movie until coming across this forum. It makes sense now, but I think it has little impact on the movie. It's a difficult subject to make a movie about, let alone one for national theaters. I applaud their effort to explain contemporary theory in terms a young teenager could understand. And yet, the whole time when I was watching the movie I was in a reverie of dissapointment. It is just not possible to understand and then retain the fundamentals of quantum-mechanics in a couple hours. I don't fault them for it, it is an excellent overview of a very complicated set of ideas. It's more engaging than a Cal. Tech. video in technical regards. It's nothing like Waking Life in terms of cold hard philosophy. And as for What the &*$% Do We Know being a Ramtha seminar... well, who knows, I always thought they kept to themselves.