Do you think you should have the right to end your own life? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Undercover_Man · 10-14-2004, 10:48 PM

Hi...I was watching Law & Order and saw thins one episode over the legality of ending your own life...if a friend/family member/etc... had an uncureable disease and would always be in pain and wanted to end his/her life then would you support that decision?

I know that if I had something and it was painful everyday and all the things the doctors tried did not work and if they ran out of ideas then I would probably want to end my life...Would you really want to see a friend or family member go thru every minute of every day in pain that doctors could not cure?

I mean ppl say that it is wrong to kill but if you were in so much pain everyday wouldn't YOU want to end it right then and there? Wrong to kill and letting yourself slip away without taking meds or getting off lifesupport would be the same as murdering yourself and murder is wrong...but then if you or the person doesn't do it then s/he's stuck with agonizing pain...

Law & Order gets me thinking on a lot of issues...pretty good show...do any of you watch it? Would do you think about ending your life...should you have the right to end it? I think you should ONLY if the doctors have depleted all other options or if the option means more pain and/or a great risk of even more damage...What do you guys think about the subject?

- Undercover_Man

ultra_agent9 · 10-14-2004, 10:56 PM

Yes, I support the right to die (euthanasia).

Undercover_Man · 10-14-2004, 11:08 PM

One thing I don't get is the fact that you don't have the right to end your own life BUT the government DOES...if you're convicted of a heinous crime then you could end up on death row...who is killing you? The same people who say it is wrong commit suicide and the same ppl who are pro life...oh those pro life ppl will go all out on "rescuing" an unborn child but when it comes to a criminals life then they could care less...

- Undercover_Man

thefictionweliv · 10-15-2004, 12:57 AM

Note: the unborn child is innocent.
And because I like quoting stuff.
"Death is punishment to some, to some a gift, and to many a favor" -Seneca
I believe in it because at that point I am a waste of human resources, that could be used on people that still have life left to live. Not to mention life was painful enough, why would anyone think sitting in a hospital bed in agony for 6 months would add to the value?

thefictionweliv · 10-15-2004, 12:59 AM

And someone on death row took the right of someone else to have life and therefore they should have the same courtesy.

Undercover_Man · 10-15-2004, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefictionweliv

And someone on death row took the right of someone else to have life and therefore they should have the same courtesy.

An eye for an eye makes the world blind...anyways...you can go to death row for something other than murder

mo42 · 10-15-2004, 06:31 AM

I don't know if I really support the right to die. I think all life is precious, and I'm pretty sure I'll always have *something* to live for, even if all I can do is think. I also think that legalizing euthanasia might further cheapen the value of life in a society that doesn't value it nearly enough.

inharmony · 10-15-2004, 06:34 AM

If all options have been depleted and no possible way for 'cure', then yes I would want to be able to end my own life.

d*d · 10-15-2004, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mo42

I'm pretty sure I'll always have *something* to live for, even if all I can do is think.

i think the point is is if you genuinely do have nothing to live for due to a terminal illnes.

SiNai · 10-15-2004, 08:45 AM

Or, you're so wrapped up in your own Alzheimer's, cannot control your own bodily functions.. I would want to decide when I die.

Willravel · 10-15-2004, 09:28 AM

I don't believe in the death penalty, I don't believe in abortion (pro choice, if you will), and I don't believe in suicide. Wishing for your own death outside of torture, or wishing death on someone else, is generally considered to be a symptom of mental illness, and can be treated with a good rate of success.
People like to refer to this as human nature, and argue that animals do it. Fortunatally, we are not animals.

This is all IMO, and I would never ever force my belief on anyone.

Undercover_Man · 10-15-2004, 11:35 AM

^^^
I actually we ARE animals...we are a species on this planet...we take care of our young like other animals...our internal body parts are found in other animals and other have a few less or more than others...I don't see anything that would differenciate us from other animals except for the fact that we are the most intelligent species on this planet...but that's a whole new argument, maybe, for a new thread...so someone start one if ya want...don't get off topic like I just did...

Suave · 10-15-2004, 11:53 AM

Why not? Who are we to say whether or not someone should be able to end their own lives (or have assistance in doing so)? As long as the proper procedures are put into place to prevent murder or miscommunication, euthanasia is a fantastic idea in my opinion. Not only does the person who dies get what they want, they stop draining the health system.

kirth gersen · 10-15-2004, 12:03 PM

Absolutely. It is one of only a few things that are truly yours.

Willravel · 10-15-2004, 05:50 PM

When I said humans aren't animals, I was not refering to the kingdom Animalia. I was refering to the second meaning of the word in the dictionary, an animal organism other than a human being. I think that's obvious, and pointing it out as missinformation is a waste of time.
I will simply lead by example.

mused76 · 10-15-2004, 05:59 PM

I believe every person *can* end their own life but nobody should actually end their own life or purposely end someone else's life. If that were the case we'd all be gods - which we are not. We didn't choose to be born so why should we choose to exit? All in due time.

prosequence · 10-15-2004, 06:02 PM

You were given life, it is not yours to take away.

ARTelevision · 10-15-2004, 06:02 PM

I don't think of things in terms of "rights"

I understand they exist as a legal term of art that relate to power relationships as they are currenly structured.

I think of things in terms of power.

We have the power to end our own lives.

That is fine with me.

adysav · 10-15-2004, 06:05 PM

I must be missing something. Don't you have the power to do practically anything?

SecretMethod70 · 10-15-2004, 07:13 PM

As you may guess by my current avatar, I support the idea that someone has control over their own body

I own my body and, therefore, should have the right to terminate it. However, you are right regarding mental illnesses, which is why I don't think it unreasonable to require that a person go through a degree of psychological testing before being approved the courtesy of ending their own life, much like is done with sex changes.

Incidentally, I think this has nothing to do with our culture's respect for life, but has everything to do with our cultures respect for self-liberty. In the case of abortion, from the perspective that it is a life (and I know this is debatable, but I'm not arguing that point), that life has ownership of its body and, therefore, another person does not have the right to take it. Likewise, I have ownership of MY body and DO have the right to terminate it. So, if you hold the belief that life is precious and, because of this, are against abortion, supporting euthenasia has nothing to do with that IMO.

EmotivE · 10-16-2004, 09:34 AM

Personally, I'd say I closest agree with ARTelevision, in the sense that I find it quite humerous that there are actually structured systems and laws that attempt to gain such autonomous control over other individual lives to the point of declaring whether or not we are permitted to end our own existence. Personally, I think any state's intervention should not be so damn concerned with our personal lives (like wearing seatbelts, if I don't want to wear a seatbelt out of my own arrogrance, I'm not going to wear a damn seatbelt! lol). I think this applies to suicide, not just euthanasia, if I desire to end my own life I find it ridiculous how others would claim to possess the legitimate authority to stop me. However, I realize that people have ingrained ethical standards, and they would say suicide is evil, and to that I say this: If you find it evil, then don't do it, you don't have to impose your subjective values own others.
As an afterthought, I think making the actual decision as to whether or not commiting suicide would be beneficial is the sensitive issue, where others would suffer from your actions and where you may be handicapped by short-sighted agony. Ultimately, I think anyone can end their own lives if they desire to do so, but I urge them to weigh the consequences far more carefully than most do.

Master_Shake · 10-16-2004, 09:42 AM

I remember reading somewhere in a psychology textbook that the reason people shouldn't be allowed to kill themselves is because anyone who wants to kill him/herself is incapable of thinking rationally, and irrational people shouldn't be able to make really important decisions like suicide.

I also always thought that was one of the greatest circular arguments of all time. In my case, I've had several close relatives die of cancer, most painfully or at the very least just kind of wasting away. This probably means my chances of getting cancer are higher than normal, so I have already thought this out; yes, I would commit suicide rather than go through all that shit.

Willravel · 10-16-2004, 11:39 AM

If something is circular, that makes it wrong? I've had several relitives have cancer, so I don't smoke and a wear spf30.

roboshark · 10-16-2004, 12:45 PM

I fully believe one should have the "right" to end their own life. Although I don't like that word there, "right". It implies that my life isn't mine to control, that there are provisions put in place by some entity that determine whether I can or cannot do something that concerns only me. Which is, of course, nonsense: I don't have a debt to society, some vague deity, a religion, or my parents. If I want to die, it's my choice.

Master_Shake · 10-16-2004, 01:28 PM

A circular argument is an argument that relies on its own conclusion to prove itself. In this case the argument is relying on the conclusion that people who want to kill themselves are irrational, to prove their irrationality.

http://www2.sjsu.edu/depts/itl/graph.../circular.html

SecretMethod70 · 10-16-2004, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roboshark

I fully believe one should have the "right" to end their own life. Although I don't like that word there, "right". It implies that my life isn't mine to control, that there are provisions put in place by some entity that determine whether I can or cannot do something that concerns only me. Which is, of course, nonsense: I don't have a debt to society, some vague deity, a religion, or my parents. If I want to die, it's my choice.

You misunderstand the word "right" then. A "right" is....

Quote:

A power, priviledge, faculty, or demand inherent in one person and incident upon another. Generally defined as 'powers of free action.' Something that you have the sovereign authority to do because there is no higher authority to get permission from.

What you don't believe is saying that one has the "priviledge" to end their own life. a "priviledge" is....

Quote:

A particular and peculiar benefit or advantage enjoyed by a person, company, or a class beyond the common advantages of other citizens. A particular right, advantage, exemption, power, franchise, or immunity held by a person or class not generally possessed by others.

So, it is completely correct I think to say that a person has the RIGHT to take their own life. Because it is THEIR life and there is no other person of higher authority to have control over it.

Debil · 10-19-2004, 11:47 PM

As long as I am functional I don't see how anyone could take away the right to my own life. Someone being kept alive on machines and wishing for death should be allowed release.

Menoman · 10-20-2004, 12:23 AM

"The Right" to end your own life... in order for it not to be right, doesnt there have to be laws about it? I'm fairly certain, suicide, is not against any laws. However, attempted suicide is.

So get it right.

stardome · 10-20-2004, 12:30 AM

The way i look at it ti depends upon your reference point - as all the decsiosn we make in life are.

For examaple, a fundamentalist Christian believes that you shouldn't end your life because 'God' does not like this.

However, i'm muhc more of the opinion that you can't make any right or wrong decsions in life - you just make decisions. And i guess this inlcudes taking your own life.

My 'paradigm' if you like also supports mulitpile lives as well - in a Buddhist kind of way, altho unlike Buddhists i do believe in a God - just not one that Christinas would necessarily agree with! So for me, committing suicide would just be another learning experience for an individual soul, and as such not wrong or right, just 'is'.

SecretMethod70 · 10-20-2004, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menoman

"The Right" to end your own life... in order for it not to be right, doesnt there have to be laws about it? I'm fairly certain, suicide, is not against any laws. However, attempted suicide is.

So get it right.

There can be laws even against rights. For example, the DMCA is a law in violation of the right to free speech. Of course, that means the laws are unjust, not that it is not a right.

The previous poster mentions Christians and, as a Christian even, I think the argument presented is invalid. Even a good Christian should be able to recognize that he or she does not have the right to tell another person how to live their life. Believing a person to be acting contrary to what is good is one thing; forcing that person to is entirely another.

ravenradiodj · 10-20-2004, 06:13 AM

It's my life, isn't it? And any possible consequences/ramifications for my "soul" (for lack of a better word) are mine to deal with, not anyone else's. I can't think of a more idiotic, pointless law than one against suicide, or attempted suicide.

irateplatypus · 10-21-2004, 08:28 AM

i've been interested in the responses so far as i've not really made up my mind on this at all. maybe i never will...

ending your own life in case of alzheimer's or extreme terminal debilitating pain seems to be morally acceptable to me, but not on the grounds of the "it's my own body" argument.

do we really only belong to ourselves? i'm not so sure. on some levels, i would say that we belong to eachother. certainly someone with children or a spouse would have a tough time arguing that they're only accountable to themselves.

choosing to die effects a wide circle of people in very powerful ways. this atomic view of the individual can sometimes be selfish or shortsighted i think.

Dingo2879 · 10-21-2004, 08:38 AM

This is an interesting thread, I don't have anything new to add since everyone has pretty much covered it but I am reminded of David Cross (HBO special or Showtime, whatever) when he was talking about this subject and it was one of the best parts of the show. He was given an hypothetical example of a person dying of cancer wanting to end his own life and who received a call from a housewife in Georgia who tells him he can't bc the bible says so.... Funny stuff, anyone remember this!!

Suave · 10-21-2004, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irateplatypus

i've been interested in the responses so far as i've not really made up my mind on this at all. maybe i never will...

ending your own life in case of alzheimer's or extreme terminal debilitating pain seems to be morally acceptable to me, but not on the grounds of the "it's my own body" argument.

do we really only belong to ourselves? i'm not so sure. on some levels, i would say that we belong to eachother. certainly someone with children or a spouse would have a tough time arguing that they're only accountable to themselves.

choosing to die effects a wide circle of people in very powerful ways. this atomic view of the individual can sometimes be selfish or shortsighted i think.

Well, no one ever said it wouldn't be selfish to end your own life, just that we have a right to. You have a right to break up with people, and that hurts them too, and can be done for selfish reasons, just as one example.

Tophat665 · 10-21-2004, 08:56 AM

I like Art's take on this. Channeling Professor Octavio La Paz.

For me, I believe that everyone should have the right to do whatever they wish with their own body, and that includes killing it, so its just part of a larger issue: How to wrest the power of self determination from society.

gondath · 10-22-2004, 08:58 PM

Life was forced on us in the beginning but it should not remain so. People should be able to kill themselves whenever they want, and I'll go a step further and say the best means should be provided if asked by anyone. If I ever decided to kill myself, I sure as hell wouldn't give a damn what anyone thinks about it and woe be to anyone who gets in the way. Life itself has no intrinsic value, not even human life. Anyone who denies a person the right to death had better be opposed to forcing it on people in all contexts or be a hypocrite by default. I'd be interested in a study to see if anyone opposed to suicide supports mandatory death, like the death penalty, abortion, or in similar situations.

MSD · 10-22-2004, 10:00 PM

I have every right to kill myself as long as I don't take you out while I'm doing it.

On another note, I find it ironic that most people who belive in euthanasia would still be appaled at the idea of a terminal cancer patient jumping out of the window of the hospital or shooting himself in the head. I assume that it has something to do with the fact that euthanasia leaves no trace of the method of death and therefore resembles a natural death while a violent death would give us a clear view of what happened.

Menoman · 10-23-2004, 02:05 AM

Actually I just read through this post again and I noticed that I sounded like I was being a dick.

I wasn't telling the original poster to get his facts straight when I said "So get it right."

I was merely saying when you go to commite suicide... make it count, no one likes a failure.

irateplatypus · 10-23-2004, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suave

Well, no one ever said it wouldn't be selfish to end your own life, just that we have a right to. You have a right to break up with people, and that hurts them too, and can be done for selfish reasons, just as one example.

ahh.. but there are also many selfish desires that you do not have a moral or legal right to act upon. suicide sometimes entails marital and financial implications that have always been within the jurisdiction of the state.

are we talking about a right as granted by law or rights according to what is morally acceptable?

and lastly, people do things that they don't have the right to do all the time (regardless of moral or legal boundaries). saying that people do shitty things to eachother is really outside the argument of whether or not you have the right to do it in the first place.

Willravel · 10-23-2004, 03:07 PM

You shouldn't commit suicide. You'll regret it for the rest of your life.

10-14-2004, 10:48 PM	#1 (permalink)
Undercover_Man Insane	Do you think you should have the right to end your own life? Hi...I was watching Law & Order and saw thins one episode over the legality of ending your own life...if a friend/family member/etc... had an uncureable disease and would always be in pain and wanted to end his/her life then would you support that decision? I know that if I had something and it was painful everyday and all the things the doctors tried did not work and if they ran out of ideas then I would probably want to end my life...Would you really want to see a friend or family member go thru every minute of every day in pain that doctors could not cure? I mean ppl say that it is wrong to kill but if you were in so much pain everyday wouldn't YOU want to end it right then and there? Wrong to kill and letting yourself slip away without taking meds or getting off lifesupport would be the same as murdering yourself and murder is wrong...but then if you or the person doesn't do it then s/he's stuck with agonizing pain... Law & Order gets me thinking on a lot of issues...pretty good show...do any of you watch it? Would do you think about ending your life...should you have the right to end it? I think you should ONLY if the doctors have depleted all other options or if the option means more pain and/or a great risk of even more damage...What do you guys think about the subject? - Undercover_Man

10-14-2004, 10:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
ultra_agent9 Crazy Location: Tokyo Japan	Yes, I support the right to die (euthanasia). __________________ Champaigne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends.

10-15-2004, 06:31 AM	#7 (permalink)
mo42 Insane Location: California	I don't know if I really support the right to die. I think all life is precious, and I'm pretty sure I'll always have something to live for, even if all I can do is think. I also think that legalizing euthanasia might further cheapen the value of life in a society that doesn't value it nearly enough. __________________ It's not getting what you want, it's wanting what you've got.

10-15-2004, 06:34 AM	#8 (permalink)
inharmony Psycho Location: happy place	If all options have been depleted and no possible way for 'cure', then yes I would want to be able to end my own life. __________________ "You can't shake hands with a clenched fist." Ghandi "Things do not change: We change" Henry David Thoreau

10-15-2004, 08:45 AM	#10 (permalink)
SiNai Dreams In Digital Location: Iowa	Or, you're so wrapped up in your own Alzheimer's, cannot control your own bodily functions.. I would want to decide when I die. __________________ I can't seem to remember now What it was like- to live life, before you.. symbiont

10-14-2004, 11:08 PM	#3 (permalink)
Undercover_Man Insane	One thing I don't get is the fact that you don't have the right to end your own life BUT the government DOES...if you're convicted of a heinous crime then you could end up on death row...who is killing you? The same people who say it is wrong commit suicide and the same ppl who are pro life...oh those pro life ppl will go all out on "rescuing" an unborn child but when it comes to a criminals life then they could care less... - Undercover_Man

10-15-2004, 12:57 AM	#4 (permalink)
thefictionweliv Insane	Note: the unborn child is innocent. And because I like quoting stuff. "Death is punishment to some, to some a gift, and to many a favor" -Seneca I believe in it because at that point I am a waste of human resources, that could be used on people that still have life left to live. Not to mention life was painful enough, why would anyone think sitting in a hospital bed in agony for 6 months would add to the value?

10-15-2004, 12:59 AM	#5 (permalink)
thefictionweliv Insane	And someone on death row took the right of someone else to have life and therefore they should have the same courtesy.

10-15-2004, 09:28 AM	#11 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	I don't believe in the death penalty, I don't believe in abortion (pro choice, if you will), and I don't believe in suicide. Wishing for your own death outside of torture, or wishing death on someone else, is generally considered to be a symptom of mental illness, and can be treated with a good rate of success. People like to refer to this as human nature, and argue that animals do it. Fortunatally, we are not animals. This is all IMO, and I would never ever force my belief on anyone.

10-15-2004, 11:35 AM	#12 (permalink)
Undercover_Man Insane	^^^ I actually we ARE animals...we are a species on this planet...we take care of our young like other animals...our internal body parts are found in other animals and other have a few less or more than others...I don't see anything that would differenciate us from other animals except for the fact that we are the most intelligent species on this planet...but that's a whole new argument, maybe, for a new thread...so someone start one if ya want...don't get off topic like I just did...

10-15-2004, 11:53 AM	#13 (permalink)
Suave Twitterpated Location: My own little world (also Canada)	Why not? Who are we to say whether or not someone should be able to end their own lives (or have assistance in doing so)? As long as the proper procedures are put into place to prevent murder or miscommunication, euthanasia is a fantastic idea in my opinion. Not only does the person who dies get what they want, they stop draining the health system.

10-15-2004, 12:03 PM	#14 (permalink)
kirth gersen Upright	Absolutely. It is one of only a few things that are truly yours.

10-15-2004, 05:50 PM	#15 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	When I said humans aren't animals, I was not refering to the kingdom Animalia. I was refering to the second meaning of the word in the dictionary, an animal organism other than a human being. I think that's obvious, and pointing it out as missinformation is a waste of time. I will simply lead by example.

10-15-2004, 05:59 PM	#16 (permalink)
mused76 Crazy Location: NE Ohio	I believe every person can end their own life but nobody should actually end their own life or purposely end someone else's life. If that were the case we'd all be gods - which we are not. We didn't choose to be born so why should we choose to exit? All in due time.

10-15-2004, 06:02 PM	#17 (permalink)
prosequence Psycho Location: YOUR MOM!!	You were given life, it is not yours to take away. __________________ And now here I stand because of you, Mister Anderson, because of you I'm no longer an agent of the system, because of you I've changed...

10-15-2004, 06:02 PM	#18 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	I don't think of things in terms of "rights" I understand they exist as a legal term of art that relate to power relationships as they are currenly structured. I think of things in terms of power. We have the power to end our own lives. That is fine with me. __________________ create evolution

10-15-2004, 06:05 PM	#19 (permalink)
adysav Insane	I must be missing something. Don't you have the power to do practically anything?

10-15-2004, 07:13 PM	#20 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	As you may guess by my current avatar, I support the idea that someone has control over their own body I own my body and, therefore, should have the right to terminate it. However, you are right regarding mental illnesses, which is why I don't think it unreasonable to require that a person go through a degree of psychological testing before being approved the courtesy of ending their own life, much like is done with sex changes. Incidentally, I think this has nothing to do with our culture's respect for life, but has everything to do with our cultures respect for self-liberty. In the case of abortion, from the perspective that it is a life (and I know this is debatable, but I'm not arguing that point), that life has ownership of its body and, therefore, another person does not have the right to take it. Likewise, I have ownership of MY body and DO have the right to terminate it. So, if you hold the belief that life is precious and, because of this, are against abortion, supporting euthenasia has nothing to do with that IMO. __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling Last edited by SecretMethod70; 10-15-2004 at 07:16 PM..

10-16-2004, 09:34 AM	#21 (permalink)
EmotivE Upright Location: Antigonish, NS, Canada	Personally, I'd say I closest agree with ARTelevision, in the sense that I find it quite humerous that there are actually structured systems and laws that attempt to gain such autonomous control over other individual lives to the point of declaring whether or not we are permitted to end our own existence. Personally, I think any state's intervention should not be so damn concerned with our personal lives (like wearing seatbelts, if I don't want to wear a seatbelt out of my own arrogrance, I'm not going to wear a damn seatbelt! lol). I think this applies to suicide, not just euthanasia, if I desire to end my own life I find it ridiculous how others would claim to possess the legitimate authority to stop me. However, I realize that people have ingrained ethical standards, and they would say suicide is evil, and to that I say this: If you find it evil, then don't do it, you don't have to impose your subjective values own others. As an afterthought, I think making the actual decision as to whether or not commiting suicide would be beneficial is the sensitive issue, where others would suffer from your actions and where you may be handicapped by short-sighted agony. Ultimately, I think anyone can end their own lives if they desire to do so, but I urge them to weigh the consequences far more carefully than most do.

10-16-2004, 09:42 AM	#22 (permalink)
Master_Shake Addict Location: Pennsylvania, USA	I remember reading somewhere in a psychology textbook that the reason people shouldn't be allowed to kill themselves is because anyone who wants to kill him/herself is incapable of thinking rationally, and irrational people shouldn't be able to make really important decisions like suicide. I also always thought that was one of the greatest circular arguments of all time. In my case, I've had several close relatives die of cancer, most painfully or at the very least just kind of wasting away. This probably means my chances of getting cancer are higher than normal, so I have already thought this out; yes, I would commit suicide rather than go through all that shit. __________________ ------------- You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here.

10-16-2004, 11:39 AM	#23 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	If something is circular, that makes it wrong? I've had several relitives have cancer, so I don't smoke and a wear spf30.

10-16-2004, 12:45 PM	#24 (permalink)
roboshark Crazy	I fully believe one should have the "right" to end their own life. Although I don't like that word there, "right". It implies that my life isn't mine to control, that there are provisions put in place by some entity that determine whether I can or cannot do something that concerns only me. Which is, of course, nonsense: I don't have a debt to society, some vague deity, a religion, or my parents. If I want to die, it's my choice. __________________ I want no escape.

10-16-2004, 01:28 PM	#25 (permalink)
Master_Shake Addict Location: Pennsylvania, USA	A circular argument is an argument that relies on its own conclusion to prove itself. In this case the argument is relying on the conclusion that people who want to kill themselves are irrational, to prove their irrationality. http://www2.sjsu.edu/depts/itl/graph.../circular.html __________________ ------------- You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here.

10-19-2004, 11:47 PM	#27 (permalink)
Debil Upright Location: Florida	As long as I am functional I don't see how anyone could take away the right to my own life. Someone being kept alive on machines and wishing for death should be allowed release.

10-20-2004, 12:30 AM	#29 (permalink)
stardome Upright Location: New Zealand	The way i look at it ti depends upon your reference point - as all the decsiosn we make in life are. For examaple, a fundamentalist Christian believes that you shouldn't end your life because 'God' does not like this. However, i'm muhc more of the opinion that you can't make any right or wrong decsions in life - you just make decisions. And i guess this inlcudes taking your own life. My 'paradigm' if you like also supports mulitpile lives as well - in a Buddhist kind of way, altho unlike Buddhists i do believe in a God - just not one that Christinas would necessarily agree with! So for me, committing suicide would just be another learning experience for an individual soul, and as such not wrong or right, just 'is'.

10-20-2004, 06:13 AM	#31 (permalink)
ravenradiodj Crazy	It's my life, isn't it? And any possible consequences/ramifications for my "soul" (for lack of a better word) are mine to deal with, not anyone else's. I can't think of a more idiotic, pointless law than one against suicide, or attempted suicide.

10-21-2004, 08:28 AM	#32 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	i've been interested in the responses so far as i've not really made up my mind on this at all. maybe i never will... ending your own life in case of alzheimer's or extreme terminal debilitating pain seems to be morally acceptable to me, but not on the grounds of the "it's my own body" argument. do we really only belong to ourselves? i'm not so sure. on some levels, i would say that we belong to eachother. certainly someone with children or a spouse would have a tough time arguing that they're only accountable to themselves. choosing to die effects a wide circle of people in very powerful ways. this atomic view of the individual can sometimes be selfish or shortsighted i think. __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill

10-21-2004, 08:38 AM	#33 (permalink)
Dingo2879 Crazy Location: Lisle, IL	This is an interesting thread, I don't have anything new to add since everyone has pretty much covered it but I am reminded of David Cross (HBO special or Showtime, whatever) when he was talking about this subject and it was one of the best parts of the show. He was given an hypothetical example of a person dying of cancer wanting to end his own life and who received a call from a housewife in Georgia who tells him he can't bc the bible says so.... Funny stuff, anyone remember this!!

10-21-2004, 08:56 AM	#35 (permalink)
Tophat665 Minion of the scaléd ones Location: Northeast Jesusland	I like Art's take on this. Channeling Professor Octavio La Paz. For me, I believe that everyone should have the right to do whatever they wish with their own body, and that includes killing it, so its just part of a larger issue: How to wrest the power of self determination from society. __________________ Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

10-22-2004, 08:58 PM	#36 (permalink)
gondath Insane Location: Alton, IL	Life was forced on us in the beginning but it should not remain so. People should be able to kill themselves whenever they want, and I'll go a step further and say the best means should be provided if asked by anyone. If I ever decided to kill myself, I sure as hell wouldn't give a damn what anyone thinks about it and woe be to anyone who gets in the way. Life itself has no intrinsic value, not even human life. Anyone who denies a person the right to death had better be opposed to forcing it on people in all contexts or be a hypocrite by default. I'd be interested in a study to see if anyone opposed to suicide supports mandatory death, like the death penalty, abortion, or in similar situations.

10-22-2004, 10:00 PM	#37 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	I have every right to kill myself as long as I don't take you out while I'm doing it. On another note, I find it ironic that most people who belive in euthanasia would still be appaled at the idea of a terminal cancer patient jumping out of the window of the hospital or shooting himself in the head. I assume that it has something to do with the fact that euthanasia leaves no trace of the method of death and therefore resembles a natural death while a violent death would give us a clear view of what happened.

10-23-2004, 03:07 PM	#40 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	You shouldn't commit suicide. You'll regret it for the rest of your life.