CSflim

We have just invented a brand new mode of transportation: the Teleporter Mark I. It is similar to the teleporter from the Star Trek series. It works by taking an extremely detailed 3D photograph of you (right down to individual atoms) and making a record of it. It then disintegrates you into your constituent atoms and beams those atoms along with the information in the 3D photograph to another teleportation station many miles away. At the receiving end, the received atoms are reconstructed using the blueprint and a molecularly identical you walks out of the booth.

You have seen this machine in action, but have not yet used it yourself. You have seen friends use it, and when you talk to them afterwards they certainly seem to be the people you grew up with.

Then along comes an engineer who realises that the design of the Teleporter Mark I can be improved upon, and designs the Teleporter Mark II. Now the only thing sent from one teleporter to the next is the blueprint. Your atoms are just left behind and stored in a Raw Materials block. When the blueprint arrives it builds the new body out of atoms stored in its material block. Out walks a molecularly identical person, who is made of entirely new atoms, but is identical nonetheless.

You have also seen friends use this machine, and the results are the same. They still appear to be your old mates, and don't appeared to have changed.

So would you be prepared to use such a machine? Or do you believe that this is nothing more than a suicide booth?

Note:
The poll makes the assumption that said machines exist and work as specified.

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WarWagon

Why not? I'd be identical after as I was before, and I'm extremely lazy, so I'd use it all the time.

SecretMethod70

So long as it worked like the transporters in TNG and not like the flaky ones in TOS

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

noahfor

No, I would not use it. I have thought about it before. Let's say they take the blue print and send it to the other machine and make 2 of you. Which one is the real you. They both seem like you. They are both identical to you before you went through, right down to the atom, but you can't possibly be in 2 bodies at once, so one must not be holding your consciousness, and if one isn't then both can not be, and if both can not be then there is no reason to think that any time you use it the person that pops out is you.

If they are exactly the same then why is your consciousness lost? I don't know. All atoms are the same anyway so it really wouldn't matter if it was your atoms or new atoms, so I think you'd be lost if you used the mark 1 also. My theory is that once consciousness is lost, when it goes back online it is a different consciousness, so everytime a person goes to sleep and wakes up they are a different consciousness with the illusion that they have been alive a whole life. I don't really know how to back this up.

ARTelevision

of course...I'd step right in.
no problem - I'm more than who I think I am anyway.

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create evolution

Yakk

What does the teleporter do to Quantum entanglement?

Ie, if I teleport an atom that is currently entangled with another atom, are the atoms entangled when they come out the other end?

What if I entangle the atom with an atom I do not teleport: does entanglement still hold?

If either teleporter preserves entanglement, I'd almost definately use it.

(as an aside, if entanglement is supported by these machines, then making 2 copies of a person via this machine becomes impossible, in addition to a bunch of other neat effects)

It not, I'd want to poke at it more.

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

CSflim

Yakk: Like I said, the machine empirically works. So if quantum entanglement is required for cognition, then the machine will replicate it.

If quantum entanglement is not required for cognition, then I assume the machine will have no need to replicate it, as it will make no empirical difference. (We want to make our data transmissions as efficient as possible: no need for redundant information).

E.g. if the Penrose and Hameroff theory of mind is correct, then the machine would have to replicate these quantum states.

If quantum mechanics has no functional role to play in the operation of the brain, the machine will ignore them.

Now how do you feel anout using thse machines?

In that case then how is using this machine any different to taking a nap on a long flight?

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KellyC

awww shit..I jumped when I read the first paragraph, thinking it was real...lol

back to the question, hell yes I would do it. kinda entertaining to think about it...

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Him: Ok, I have to ask, what do you believe?
Me: Shit happens.

Mehoni

Hell YES!

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There seem to be countless rituals and cultural beliefs designed to alleviate their fear of a simple biological truth - all organisms eventually perish.

noahfor

Well that's what I'm saying. Kind of like "no I wouldn't use it because I wouldn't wake up, but then maybe I'm not really waking up from the nap I take either, but I can't be sure so I'll just play it safe by not using it and keep taking naps because I've already taken thousands."

John Henry

I would use either machine, because if it was effectively a suicide booth, it wouldn't really matter, because I certainly wouldn't notice and you nobody else would either.

Mind you, having all those atoms stripped off has got to hurt.

btw You haven't included an option for MkII only. Is this deliberate?

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"No one was behaving from very Buddhist motives. Then, thought Pigsy, he was hardly a Buddha, nor was he a monkey. Presently, he was a pig spirit changed into a little girl pretending to be a little boy to be offered to a water monster. It was all very simple to a pig spirit."

tiberry

Ditto - Couldn't have said it better!

Now - how did you come about this question? You doing market research or something?

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My life's work is to bridge the gap between that which is perceived by the mind and that which is quantifiable by words and numbers.

CSflim

Well, I figured that if anyone would be okay with using the mark II machine, then they would also use the mark I machine, but not necessarily vice-versa.

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John Henry

I skimmed over it and thought the MkII made a copy of you, but kept the original as well. My error.

Note to self: Do not post before breakfast

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"No one was behaving from very Buddhist motives. Then, thought Pigsy, he was hardly a Buddha, nor was he a monkey. Presently, he was a pig spirit changed into a little girl pretending to be a little boy to be offered to a water monster. It was all very simple to a pig spirit."

analog

I'd imagine that being physically deconstructed atom by atom would feel really weird... maybe tingly.

Also- with the speed at which the brain functions, the machine would have to capture and deconstruct, and then reconstruct FASTER than we can think. If not, it could never preserve us in mid-thought. Something would be lost.

CSflim

Mayeb you could be briefly knocked out before you step into the chamber?

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noahfor

Fools. You're being sent to your deaths.

apeman

the Mk II is effectively cloning you and killing the original... that's suicide in my book, or possibly murder, but probably ethically dodgy.

the Mk I is doing something similar only piece by piece

I think I'd use either if I had a damn good reason, but not for fun (unless I was really really bored)

PS: remember to check for flies inside the chamber

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pain is inevitable but misery is optional - stick a geranium in your hat and be happy

CSflim

Light speed transportation would be reason enough for me!

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Stare At The Sun

As long as Tech Sergeant Chen is at the controls, I'd do it...

FaderMonkey

Yeah, if I saw a friend do it and they were no doubt the same person then I would do it. Can't really think of a reason not to at that point. I would probably wait for awhile and see if that friend remained the same. Maybe they would seem normal at first but then thing got weird?

Charlatan

This is like asking would I drive a horseless carriage rather than one that is horse drawn... Technology is a tool, if it's useful and safe, I'm in.

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skier

i hope i'm not the only one that got the reference, it's a really good story.

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"Asking a bomb squad if an old bomb is still "real" is not the best thing to do if you want to save it." - denim

apeman

so no-one is worried about the Mk II and effectively killing the original copy of yourself?

Let's say there's a MK III where it creates an identical copy of you at the destination and then incinerates the original (still living?) copy so as not to have duplicates running around.

would that be ok? I'm just interested, mercifully it's not even remotely feasible

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pain is inevitable but misery is optional - stick a geranium in your hat and be happy

Moobie

I'm not sure why but this was the funniest thing I've read all day.

I too have thought about this particular subject, I wouldn't do it. Regardless of the different versions of the teleporter. Losing consciousness during sleep is one thing, atomizing your self is something completely different. And frankly it's just not natural.

But think of the possibilities/perversions. What if somebody could intercept the transmission and make a copy of it? Then reformulate another version of you. What would happen if you could do this to world leaders? Or for interrogation purposes? Imagine training one super soldier and then making a million copies of that one guy.

What if you couldn't make copies of people because of the quantum factor, that would mean someone would be able to digitally kidnap you, reroute the feed to someplace else. And poof, you don't end up where you were supposed to be going. Or even if they couldn't make a copy of you, they would be able to make a non conscious mock-up of your though processes and memories, at the time of digitization.

Could you imagine the possibilites for direct marketing....

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Obscenity is the crutch of inarticulate motherfuckers.

We like money. Give us your money you stupid consumer whore.

CSflim

You bring up some good points to do with the possibilities of abuse and the various ethical probelms with the machine. I was not really considering this angle when I made the poll. I was thinking more along the lines of peoples attitudes towards self, mind and consciousness.

As with any new technology, we would reap massive benefits, but at the price of taking the risk of the possibility of abuse. But taking into account such details are a tiny bit premature, given that such a machine is entirely impossible at the present time and probably forever.

Regardless, we can add an extra caveat to the question, that there is sufficient safeguards in place to avoid the possibility of highjacking your signal (one million bit encryption?). Also we can assume that we do not know enough about the operation of the brain to actually iterpret the scan, only to blindly copy the pattern, so no modification or mind reading.

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Yakk

http://www.schlockmercenary.com/
in this (intelligent) webcomic, they deal with alot of that which is discussed above.

For instance:
http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20020831.html


and http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20020901.html


and others. The comic is a good read if you like thinking about this sort of stuff.

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

pig

Prognosis Negative. I had the same feeling the first time I saw a question like this asked. I suppose that if we really knew everything about human anatomy and physiology up and down all the scale of time and length, then in this hypothetical case, maybe. However, since I don't believe such total knowledge is really possible, what I would rather you do is de-atomize wherever I'm going and bring it to me. Let the other people take the risk, and give me an ice cream cone while I'm waiting.

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

Giltwist

The only sort of "teleportation" I would use would involve wormholes or otherwise traversing non-spatial dimensions as a shortcut across the universe.

Moobie

Okay if we assume that, then still no.

Now if you think about it if something like this were to be invented it wouldn't be invented in a vacuum, there would be all sorts of spin-off technology and the understanding that we would have to have of the human body and mind would be exponentially greater than what we know now.

So all of these questions that I have about what makes us unique, conscious individuals would probably be answered by academics already. I would be very hesitant at first. But once it became common place to use them and I'd seen people use them with no adverse affects for a while I would probably pony up and use them, but there would have to be one hell of an understanding of how it works. I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving it up to the computer. I don't trust my computer not to eat my Word documents, let alone my body and mind.

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Obscenity is the crutch of inarticulate motherfuckers.

We like money. Give us your money you stupid consumer whore.

GakFace

There was an episode on The Outer Limits about this actually. It would essentially clone you on the other side of the "teleporter." But you had to 'balance the equation' which was deleting the original. It was no problem at all because someone always appeared on the other side.. so you weren't really killing anyone. It was always quick as if turning off a computer.

THEN there was a time when they didn't get confirmation of someone on the other side and so they didn't 'balance the equation' The guy then fell in love with the woman and a few months later they found out that she HAD "teleported" to the other side and would be transporting back in a week. The guy needed to balance the equation... but could he? He loved her, but you couldn't have a duplicate running around.. and she DID transport to the other side. When she returned, she wasn't the same person nor did she love the man... as she never really met him. In the end he ended up killing her (even though he didn't want to) for need have having to balance the equation (if he didn't do so, then the human race would lose the technology that another race in space was giving to them.


As for my answer? I Dunno. I assume it would get pretty common by the time they got to a second version, and if it recreated you.. then technically you could perform medical miracles on your trip. Imagine taking a vaction to disneyworld and when you get there you have 20/20 vision again. As long as i knew they'd balance the equation, then I probably would do it. I just know that two of me in this world wouldn't be a good thing. Instant transporting, possible medical cures, and it wouldn't be suicide. Why? Sure you'd be fully aware that your body was copied and pasted.... but you'd remember going into thte tranporting vessel and then in the "blink of an eye" you'd step out of one. If you notice no difference.. it shouldn't feel like suicide. But just like any version of transportation there wil be car crashes. The crashes of this variety would be balancing the equation before confirmation of the second half being made... the possible shell shock of seeing yourself...

Here's a question: What if you came back a year later and you were there.. face to face with yourself and your "other" you tries to kill you in order to stay alive as there can be only one.... Could you kill yourself? Further more would this be suicide? Homocide? eh?

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RoboBlaster:
Welcome to the club! Not that I'm in the club. And there really isn'a a club in the first place. But if there was a club and if I was in it, I would definitely welcome you to it.

Seer666

I would do it. I'm lazy, and a chance to get round without much work is a great idea to me. And as for it being a suicide booth, well, I really don't like this dirt ball much anyway, and a chance to get off it and see what comes next would be nice.

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Bad spellers of the world untie!!!

I am the one you warned me of

I seem to have misplaced the bullet with your name on it, but I have a whole box addressed to occupant.

Dragonlich

Well... Given that I am self-aware, I would not enter the second machine.

For simplicity, let's call the current me "1", and the transported me "2".

The reason that I wouldn't use it, is that I would basically be killing 1 (current me), in the hope that I would become 2 (other me) on the other side. I can't know - although 2 might be a perfect copy of 1, my self-awareness might not be transported, leaving 1 dead. (If you want to be religious about it, you could call this self-awareness my soul.) This would make 2 someone else; i.e. not 1.

The first machine would be physically transporting my body to the other side, and that somehow feels different. I might be convinced to use this one.

Now, this whole thread boils down to one simple question: are we more than just physical. I.e. is there something more than those atoms and energy levels that would need to be transported, or is that it? And of course, this then leads to the whole religious question of whether there is a soul or not.

MojoRisin

If theres the possiblity of a painless death, than ya.

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Dropping a barbell he points to the sky and says "The suns not yellow, It's chicken!"

eggers

dude it kills you and makes a copy, who in their right mind answered yes?

Dragonlich

Those who feel that the present state of their body (and their consciousness) is made up *only* of matter. That would make a blueprint + copy the same as the original.

I have a related question (not too original, tho): Suppose we take the mark 2 device (blueprint + copy + destruction of old body). Suppose for a moment that the original is NOT destroyed. Would any of you brave souls still go through the teleporter?

This shouldn't really matter, except that we would just have made a clone of you. A different person, identical at first, but very different after a while.

Alternatively, if you want to "balance things", how about if the original isn't destroyed immediately, but is taken out and killed in some horrible way. Should this make a difference? Probably not, but my guess is that it would for many.

I'd say that your consciousness, or "soul" (for lack of a better word) will not be transported, which means that you will not experience a sudden jump to the other side, but will remain here instead. The other you on the other side will have a "soul" of his own. A perfect copy at first, but, like the body itself, quite different after a while (different experiences).

John Henry

Not sure if I'm allowed to comment directly on the poll results in case it influences voting, but anyone else think there must be a lot of strange/stupid peole on this thread. I'm kidding myself that I'm in the strange category.

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"No one was behaving from very Buddhist motives. Then, thought Pigsy, he was hardly a Buddha, nor was he a monkey. Presently, he was a pig spirit changed into a little girl pretending to be a little boy to be offered to a water monster. It was all very simple to a pig spirit."

wonderwench

I wouldn't use the 2nd version - it is creating a clone, not transporting one.

There is an episode of the new Outer Limits which deals with this issue. After the code is sent to a new destination, the original person is supposed to be destroyed. There is a slip up and a woman is not killed - the transport monitor then has to deal with what to do.

choskins

I would use them without even questioning how they work. I don't know how a microwave works, but I use it all the time. If it was proven safe and "works as specified", I'd be all over it.

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- Sigmund Freud

crow_daw

OK, as illogical as it may seem to some, I just don't like the idea of not being the exact same person as I was. I don't know, I'm just not comfortable with the second machine.

The Mark I, hell yes.

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"We each have a star, all we have to do is find it. Once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded." - Earl Simmons