you just totally answered your own question.

You're right as usual. I can learn a lot from you guys. Super Moderators are my friends. I just needed to think my thread thru before posting it so quickly. Thanks again. I guess that's why SM's are the ones in charge. :)

I believe in a swat to the butt to get their attention. That's all its ever taken for my child and those have been rare. However, I seen some kids misbehave so badly in public that I wondered if a good paddling might have been in order. I myself was paddled a few times as a child when I deserved it and I think it taught me there are consequences when we break the rules; a lesson that carries over into adult life. Oddly enough, I now speak of it with a degree of pride as do some friends that I've heard mention it.

i don't think "threatening" your kids is okay. put yourself in their shoes. imagine you are three feet tall and one of the only people you truly trust in the world is hurting you. how would you feel? would your dignity be intact?

this behaviour mirrors the cycle of abuse. Abuse - remorse - false sense of security - more abuse.

I think most of us that have been spanked have been in their shoes. As for me, I was in those shoes many many times. I learned at an early age that if I didn't want to get a spanking, then don't do things I'm not supposed to do.

I never looked at it as I'm three feet tall and the only people I trust are hurting me. I looked at it as a lesson in not doing it again.

I've rarely, if ever, seen people spank their children for their own good. Mostly, it's done because the child is annoying the adult somehow. If you want a good test to see how people will behave physically towards their children, watch how they treat pets. They generally treat each the same way. I still see it as a bad idea. It never helped me as a kid. It taught me not to piss off my parents and to be sneakier. I don't recall any life lessons coming to me through being swatted for being too loud or running around in a store.

One thing that I'm suprised some people argue against is this: Some discipline methods work on some kids and don't work on others. Time outs work on some and don't work on others. Spanking is the same way. It's almost not even worth discussing. Some people think its abuse, others are glad they were spanked. I find it a topic that is not suited for general discussion because it should be considered on an case by case basis.

Secondly, people who view spanking as abuse: I was spanked a few times as a child and I certainly don't believe it is was anywhere near abuse. I definitely cried after a few of them. Big deal. I don't harbor any ill feelings towards my parents. I simply viewed spanking as something I didn't like, and it was something that happened when I made serious errors in judgement. When I look back, spanking never even enters my mind, it is so inconsequential to me. But it did stop me from doing things I should not be doing. Also, for reference, I don't think i was spanked after 6. But, some people were spanked quite roughly and they were abused, or they are people who have a complete aversion to any sort of physical punishment and consider the spanking they recieved abuse, even when others who were spanked would not consider it to be close to abuse. However, other punishments can have a detrimental effect on the child as well. If you scream and yell like a crazed lunatic at your child when they do bad things then they sure as hell aren't going to like you, they will try to not get caught, and they will most likely fear you. It's the same thing that will happen to a kid if you spank too harshly, or even if you spank a kid who will not be receptive to it. Some kids will take a spanking differently then others. Just a simple spanking may be enough to change the view that a child has of his parents. He may fear them because of it. If that might be the case with one of your kids, then don't spank them. But for others, it can be very effective and not detrimental towards the kids at all. It's the same with any punishment; the child must be looked at. What would work best for this child? Spanking, time out, a stern no, whatever it is, just do what is effective and what you believe will have the least negative effect, if any, on the child, while, at the same time, will get the message across that they should not do that again. An overall idea such as, spanking is horrible never do it, or spanking is great I'm going to spank all my kids is not the way to approach this problem.

Also, about the quote about 100% of people in prison have been spanked. Even with the source to that study, I still don't think I will believe it. Even if that were true, I'm quite sure they are leaving out a whole lot of important information that would help you draw a useful conclusion from that study. Assuming that most people in prison did not have a good childhood its safe to assume that that person was not only spanked, but had to deal with other problems as well. They were probably yelled at excessively, possibly ignored, etc. There are a whole lot of things that also happened to them. To say that your child has a higher chance of going to prison just because they were spanked, I think, is highly misleading. Done in the proper way, I don't believe spanking has any causal relationship with growing up to being a bad person.

I'm not a parent myself, so I suppose its possible I am overlooking the biggest assumption I make during my argument: when I talk about doing what is best for the child involved and I assume that a parent can determine that. However, I realize that is not always the case. It may not be easy to figure out what will be the most effective and least harmful punishment for each child. But I think that is up for the parents of that child to determine. I don't think its up for the government to decide. Sure, there is the possibility the parents will make the wrong decision and spank a child who will not be receptive to it. But that happens in any area regarding discipline, or even the raising, of a child. It's the parent's child, not the governments, so let the parents decide how to do it. I'm not saying the government shouldn't step in when the parents go overboard (read: abuse), but to implement a law that tells parents how to deal with their kids is not only arrogant, but I think a very serious breach in personal freedom.

And finally, I have to reiterate what the other people above me have said. Spanking, when used effectively, is not the only method of discipline. It is used in combination with other methods.

p.s. To those who believe any form of spanking is abuse, you are the the child I am talking about above. You are the type who would not be receptive to spanking. So other methods of discipline should be used with you. However, you should not push your views on others and say plainly "spanking is abuse". I certainly don't agree with you and others who support spanking in the conditions that will cause it to be effective and will not negatively effect the child, won't agree with you either. But I do recognize that spanking isn't for all children, hence my incredibly long-winded post above.

I've never spanked my 7 year old. I can't really imagine doing it, and I strongly believe it would teach her the wrong thing. There's always a more effective punnishment. All her teachers have said she's particularly well behaved, so don't go thinking she's a spoiled monster.

I applaud this thread. I'm surprised at how many still beleive spanking is OK. I surely do, my parents spanked me a total of about five times but they sure had my attention when they did. My dad had a short fuse but would not automatically go for a spanking, my mom would administer them more often as she watched me much more. I had a respect for what my parents told me to do by at the latest age 5 or 6. I didn't dick around with what they told me. I just did. I will add that I don't hold anything against them, I beleive they did the right thing. I love both of my parents, and have a great relationship with both.

I have spanked my own children (swats on the but, not an all-out multiple smack session). I will continue to do so. I have watched my neice & nephew, who are from a "don't hit the kids" family, steal from me, and when caught the mother wound up crying more than the kid. He, at 12, got a time out. Stole $40 & recieved a timeout. He talks back to his parents, ignores people, and is generally the bully of the block. Talk about someone who needs his ass kicked...he's now 15 and no one can stand to be around him.

I do agree that every child is different, and some respond to some things while others respond to other treatments. My daughter cannot stand to have a parent mad at her. I can almost guarantee that after two or three swats in the last few years, I won't ever have to do that again. My two year old son, however, is a different story.

I guess the parent needs to be comfortable with their choice in discipline, and I've seen both sides, kids that were too afraid to screw up to do anything, and those that needed a spanking so bad it was hard not to offer one up myself.

w/o looking further into what other people are saying so others may have said this already, but i believe that there are better methods of teaching children what not to do and better yet, the correct ways to do things.

spanking is a form of punishment. you add something (hitting the bottoms) to take away bad behavior. it may stop the current behavior, but not show the child what you want them to do.

i'm a fan of supporting them when they are doing things right. compliments will shape children to the actions you want out of them.

no i'm not a behaviorist.

Spanking if fine but don't leave bruises - physical and mental. The bruises isn't just skin deep but will have mental effect if your child is old enough. I was whooped for little things such as not finishing every grain of rice in the bowl.

If you end up making bruses then you should go to jail and rot because bruses mean blood that you caused which has made its way to the surface of the skin. If you do this then you are a bad parent and I hope social services catch you and you're put away FOREVAH.

I HATE hearing about child abuse. It pisses me off to no end that ppl, ESPECIALLY their own close relatives, abuse kids who are vulnerable. If I could just take my hand and wipe them all off the face of the earth then this place would be SO much better to live in cause kids won't be raised around as many crappy parents.

Parents can be so hypocritical. "Don't hit your peers. If someone is making fun of you then go tell a teacher. Hitting is bad" and then "WTF did you do? Clean this mess up and prepare for an asswupin". They try to teach their kids that hitting and violence is bad yet when they themselves get mad then they have to go and hit their own kid. Do you think a kid knows the difference between hitting and spanking? I think not. They think they are the same. You confuse them and this is when they start to get screwd up themselves and hate their parents and all mental hell breaks loose.

Hypocritical my butt.....My daughter has been spanked probably a total of 6 times in her life...she is 11 1/2 I have never ever seen her try to hit someone when she was angry. For that matter neither have I and I was spanked. She is not at all confused between hitting and spanking because she has been taught the difference.



oh and she is not "afraid" of me in the physical sense....she's afraid of things like disappointing me but that is a different kind of afraid.

^^^
In other words you control your child thru fear and anger and if she doesn't do what you tell her to do then she gets hit. That is NO way to raise a child IMHO. Just look at how other countries have turned out when their rulers controled the ppl thru fear.

it's called negative reinforcement. A nice psychologically proven technique. I do wrong, dad whips off the belt, ass hurts. I don't do bad, dad keeps belt on, ass don't hurt. Doing bad = pain in ass. Doing good = no pain in ass.

Pavlov's dog salivating at the ringing of a bell.

When spanking is OK:



http://www.96rock.com/images/spanking.jpg