Jewish/Passion Questions - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

MahlerIsGod · 03-03-2004, 07:28 PM

Greetings All,
I thought I would post these questions here rather than in the Entertainment thread as they are not specifically about the movie, "The Passion Of THe Christ."

Question 1: Why did the priest, Caphaias, rip his clothing when he thought Jesus uttered a blasemphy? What is the signficance of that? (I have seen/read about this happening in other sources/movies)

Question 2: Why did Mary clean up Jesus' blood after the scourging? Was it common practice/good form or because it was the blood of Christ?

I apologize for my ignorance concerning my Jewish brothers and sisters. I really should know more about them and their reliigion. Thanks in advance.

KellyC · 03-03-2004, 08:55 PM

I might as well post my questions here too, if you don't mind.

What's the deal with that satan character in the movie?

and

Why did Jesus say "My God, why have you forsakened me?" He seems to have so much confidence in God, but yet, he says those words. (I'm sorry if it's not the exact words, my memory is poor).

and

Whats the point of this movie? How is it different from any other Jesus movie?

thanks in advance too

irateplatypus · 03-03-2004, 10:53 PM

mahlerisgod,

1. Ripping your clothes is a sign of mourning. They priests were demonstrating how obscene and tragic they believed the comments by Jesus were. Nothing is really very sacred anymore in our culture, so i don't know if there would be a modern equivalent.

2. I'm not positive about this one, but I've heard that it was about preserving dignity. You just dont' leave your bodily fluids lying around like that. Anyone have concrete references on this one?

KellyC,

1. I think he was added to provide a spiritual context for the events. Christians believe that Jesus' conquered sin and death on the cross, that may not come across without the addition of an obviously supernatural character. Just my own observation.

2. Many think that Jesus' words were a reference to Psalm 22, a text he would have been familiar with. Pure speculation: perhaps it was at this moment that he took on the world's sins and suddenly felt the distance that sin creates between man and God. He would have never felt the consequences of sin before this.

3. Ask Mel for sure. I think it is to illustrate Christ's suffering and allow modern-day people to be able to empathize with the context of the crucifixion. This is different from other Jesus movies because...

A. it only focuses on his death and resurrection.

B. It pulls few punches in its portrayal of violence.

C. The text is pulled directly from biblical sources and is delivered in its native tongue.

iccky · 03-05-2004, 09:47 AM

Quote:

2. Many think that Jesus' words were a reference to Psalm 22, a text he would have been familiar with. Pure speculation: perhaps it was at this moment that he took on the world's sins and suddenly felt the distance that sin creates between man and God. He would have never felt the consequences of sin before this.

This is a quote that has caused a lot of problems throughout the history of christianity. I think the really interesting perspective is the idea that jesus was a man who's body was inhabited by the Word of God (Christ), sort of invasion of the bodysnachers style. This quote represents the moment the Word leaves him and goes back up to heaven, leaving the man jesus to take the Roman's torture's. It was advanced by an early christian group (can't remember their name right now) who could stand to think of the son of God experienceing the pain and humiliation of crucifiction.

Mojo_PeiPei · 03-05-2004, 10:27 AM

Satans' role comes from a vision from a Catholic mystic Katherine Emeric. She was a stigmatic (is that how you would say it?) and she had visions surrounding the death of Christ. Satan was there tormenting him, some say it was his last temptation.

Thagrastay · 03-07-2004, 07:27 AM

irateplatypus' observations are right on the money, I would think.
all I can add would be to further flesh out the tearing of the garments-
Jesus claimed to be the I AM in the presence of the High Priest which was blasphemy according to the Judaic cusom and punishable by death. Furthermore, the utterance of such blasphemy in the presence of the High Priest was of such profundity, that his only reaction was to tear his garments in response to so great an insult to God. When the others in the room saw the response of the High Priest, they knew unequivovcably what he had heard Jesus say.

Psalm 22 is a remarkable piece in that it was written by King David long before the advent of crucifixion, yet it describes everything that Jesus went through while He hung upon the cross, including His garments being gambled for and the remarks made by the crowd. Irateplatypus' statement that Jesus had not before known the consequence for sin was very clear, and when the time came, G*d placed upon Jesus All the sins of all people for all time: from the very first sins of Adam and Eve to the very last sins ever committed before His return and the Judgement Throne, and Jesus was become SO filthy at that point that He was seperated from His Father. It was not G*d who had forsaken Jesus, but Jesus who could not feel G*d because of all the sin that had come between them. And when Jesus had born the entirety of the weight and burden and penalty of that horrible seperation, He declared that all the sin was then upon Him and He Declared that It was finished and He died in that sin to pay the price.
As we all know, death cannot hold a man who has done no wrong. None of those sins were His own and so on the third day, He arose.
But that part is for another thread.

lucidity · 03-08-2004, 06:49 AM

This may seem like a silly question to ask.. not 'jackin the thread or anything... but why do some people spell God as G*d or G-d? Is it because the word is just too sacred to spell out fully? *scratches head*

Thagrastay · 03-08-2004, 02:22 PM

Respect for the Almighty, in my case. It is a personal preference. It reminds me that G*D is not a name that is to be used as a filler in a sentance or to be thrown about in a light fashion. That is another reason I will refer to the Messiah by His Hebrew name, rather than the common anglicized version because the nodern version has become too common and has reached, in many cases a punch-line level. By referrinf to the Messiah as Yeshua and His station as that of the Meschiach, I am reminded that He was a living, breathing man who did for me what I could never do for myself and I owe him my respect and allegiance and reverence.
Rightfully spelled out, Jesus' name would have been Yeshua ben Yoshua, or Jesus, son of Joseph, but in reality, it is Yeshua ben El, Meschiach. Jesus, Son of G*D, Messiah.
Again, the spelling and defference to Him is a personal thing, but that is at least why I do it.

03-03-2004, 07:28 PM	#1 (permalink)
MahlerIsGod At The Globe Showing Will How Its Done Location: London/Elysium	Jewish/Passion Questions Greetings All, I thought I would post these questions here rather than in the Entertainment thread as they are not specifically about the movie, "The Passion Of THe Christ." Question 1: Why did the priest, Caphaias, rip his clothing when he thought Jesus uttered a blasemphy? What is the signficance of that? (I have seen/read about this happening in other sources/movies) Question 2: Why did Mary clean up Jesus' blood after the scourging? Was it common practice/good form or because it was the blood of Christ? I apologize for my ignorance concerning my Jewish brothers and sisters. I really should know more about them and their reliigion. Thanks in advance. __________________ "But a work of art is a conscious human effort that has to do with communication. It is that or its nothing. When an accident is applauded as a work of art, when a cult grows up around the deliciousness of inadvertent beauty, we are in the presence of the greatest decadence the West has known in its history."

03-03-2004, 08:55 PM	#2 (permalink)
KellyC Comment or else!! Location: Home sweet home	I might as well post my questions here too, if you don't mind. What's the deal with that satan character in the movie? and Why did Jesus say "My God, why have you forsakened me?" He seems to have so much confidence in God, but yet, he says those words. (I'm sorry if it's not the exact words, my memory is poor). and Whats the point of this movie? How is it different from any other Jesus movie? thanks in advance too __________________ Him: Ok, I have to ask, what do you believe? Me: Shit happens.

03-03-2004, 10:53 PM	#3 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	mahlerisgod, 1. Ripping your clothes is a sign of mourning. They priests were demonstrating how obscene and tragic they believed the comments by Jesus were. Nothing is really very sacred anymore in our culture, so i don't know if there would be a modern equivalent. 2. I'm not positive about this one, but I've heard that it was about preserving dignity. You just dont' leave your bodily fluids lying around like that. Anyone have concrete references on this one? KellyC, 1. I think he was added to provide a spiritual context for the events. Christians believe that Jesus' conquered sin and death on the cross, that may not come across without the addition of an obviously supernatural character. Just my own observation. 2. Many think that Jesus' words were a reference to Psalm 22, a text he would have been familiar with. Pure speculation: perhaps it was at this moment that he took on the world's sins and suddenly felt the distance that sin creates between man and God. He would have never felt the consequences of sin before this. 3. Ask Mel for sure. I think it is to illustrate Christ's suffering and allow modern-day people to be able to empathize with the context of the crucifixion. This is different from other Jesus movies because... A. it only focuses on his death and resurrection. B. It pulls few punches in its portrayal of violence. C. The text is pulled directly from biblical sources and is delivered in its native tongue. __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill

03-05-2004, 10:27 AM	#5 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Satans' role comes from a vision from a Catholic mystic Katherine Emeric. She was a stigmatic (is that how you would say it?) and she had visions surrounding the death of Christ. Satan was there tormenting him, some say it was his last temptation. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

03-07-2004, 07:27 AM	#6 (permalink)
Thagrastay Crazy Location: Handrail, Montana	irateplatypus' observations are right on the money, I would think. all I can add would be to further flesh out the tearing of the garments- Jesus claimed to be the I AM in the presence of the High Priest which was blasphemy according to the Judaic cusom and punishable by death. Furthermore, the utterance of such blasphemy in the presence of the High Priest was of such profundity, that his only reaction was to tear his garments in response to so great an insult to God. When the others in the room saw the response of the High Priest, they knew unequivovcably what he had heard Jesus say. Psalm 22 is a remarkable piece in that it was written by King David long before the advent of crucifixion, yet it describes everything that Jesus went through while He hung upon the cross, including His garments being gambled for and the remarks made by the crowd. Irateplatypus' statement that Jesus had not before known the consequence for sin was very clear, and when the time came, Gd placed upon Jesus All the sins of all people for all time: from the very first sins of Adam and Eve to the very last sins ever committed before His return and the Judgement Throne, and Jesus was become SO filthy at that point that He was seperated from His Father. It was not Gd who had forsaken Jesus, but Jesus who could not feel G*d because of all the sin that had come between them. And when Jesus had born the entirety of the weight and burden and penalty of that horrible seperation, He declared that all the sin was then upon Him and He Declared that It was finished and He died in that sin to pay the price. As we all know, death cannot hold a man who has done no wrong. None of those sins were His own and so on the third day, He arose. But that part is for another thread. __________________ "That's it! They've got the cuffs on him, he's IN the car!"

03-08-2004, 06:49 AM	#7 (permalink)
lucidity Crazy Location: ...the space between what's wrong and right...	This may seem like a silly question to ask.. not 'jackin the thread or anything... but why do some people spell God as Gd or G-d? Is it because the word is just too sacred to spell out fully? scratches head* __________________ Faith is the daring of the soul to go farther than it can see. -William Newton Clark

03-08-2004, 02:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
Thagrastay Crazy Location: Handrail, Montana	Respect for the Almighty, in my case. It is a personal preference. It reminds me that GD is not a name that is to be used as a filler in a sentance or to be thrown about in a light fashion. That is another reason I will refer to the Messiah by His Hebrew name, rather than the common anglicized version because the nodern version has become too common and has reached, in many cases a punch-line level. By referrinf to the Messiah as Yeshua and His station as that of the Meschiach, I am reminded that He was a living, breathing man who did for me what I could never do for myself and I owe him my respect and allegiance and reverence. Rightfully spelled out, Jesus' name would have been Yeshua ben Yoshua, or Jesus, son of Joseph, but in reality, it is Yeshua ben El, Meschiach. Jesus, Son of GD, Messiah. Again, the spelling and defference to Him is a personal thing, but that is at least why I do it. __________________ "That's it! They've got the cuffs on him, he's IN the car!"