Rodney

If you steal something, you take physical objects that don't belong to you. If you lie, you don't necessarily "take" anything. But you do create a mindset in another person that could manipulate him to do something that you want -- something that he might not otherwise do, and might not be in his best interests.

Can there ever be a good theft ("he'd harm himself with it if I hadn't taken it"), or a good lie ("it's for his own good.")? Or not?

onetime2

It depends on the lie and the theft. If I stole a loaf of bread that would have been thrown away minutes later anyway to give to my starving child is that worse than if I tell the KKK chasing a runaway slave that he/she isn't in my basement when, in fact, they are? Of course not. There are "good" lies and "bad" ones.

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Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

aintyoboyfriend

When told/done in a harmful manner, both are equal.

When told/done in a good manner, both are equal.

When one is for harm, and one is for good, only the harmful one is more unethical.

Dragonlich

unethical to whom, pray tell?

mr sticky

I have to chime in on "the intention is everything" principle. Your intention is the true barometer of positive vs negative.

The actual act is secondary.

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The sad thing is... as you get older you come to realize that you don't so much pilot your life, as you just try to hold on, in a screaming, defiant ball of white-knuckle anxious fury

nanofever

Lots of people have good intentsions when committing horrible acts, going to war, ect.

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I'm leaving for the University of California: Santa Barbara in 5 hours, give me your best college advice - things I need, good ideas, bad ideas, nooky, ect.

Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum:
"Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt."

CSflim

Hitler had good intentions.
All he wanted to do was to improve the quality of the human race.

As it happens, he had poor judgment with regards to what constituted "quality" when it comes to humans, and with regards to the acceptable means to accuire his end.

Ultimately he was doing what he believed was right.

Similar argument could be made about Osama Bin Laden. He was just doing God's wishes.

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Bill O'Rights

So, to sum it all up in three words..."Ethics is relative".

Anyone disagree?

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"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

fulkramick

I believe that both lying and stealing are both methods of depriving and/or taking truth. If you take the (now cliche'd) loaf of bread for your family, you're depriving the truth of what commerce (as an establishment) is to the merchant. If you lie to get the loaf, the same result occurs. I don't believe there is a good or noble lie or act of stealing. They both are acts of some form of cowardice, no matter how small thy may seem. I'm most certainly not without guilt in this, but I think that a 'good' lie or a 'good reason' to steal is just a matter of justification inside you're own head, you know? If you convince yourself that said cause is worthy, from stealing to feed your starving family or self (when you could go to a food pantry), to telling your boss that your car won't start (when you could've got out of bed earlier), then you can turn that feeling of nobility and justification into a reasonable act. I don't mean to be redundant, but that 's how it is. You lie you lie, you steal you steal... I can't see much of a grey area, no matter how one justifies the acts. Interesting question!

numist

Severity, all of it.

If they both share the same severity I would say its the same crime, even.

You are stealing information and knowlege in once sense, and that steals from the mind.
Stealing material steals from the body.

Its the same crime, in the end.

taylorspl

It's all perspective.

tisonlyi

Lying and truth. Viewpoints, not absolutes.

Truth is convention or collective memory, which are highly contaminable sources.

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"I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place." - Winston Churchill, 1937 --{ORLY?}--