religions - Page 3 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Charlatan · 05-07-2003, 09:54 AM

Jumpin Jesus... that is fairly close to how I feel these days (although I still take pleasure in the debate from time to time)...

Empty_One · 05-08-2003, 08:23 AM

I was raised Catholic by my parents, but never really agreed with how the chirch went about things. It totally turned me off to all religions. After talking to some people, and reading about it online, the Unitarian church is probably the closest thing I have found to my own personal beliefs.

Taken fron http://www.uua.org

Quote:

What We Believe

Unitarian Universalism is a liberal religion born of the Jewish and Christian traditions. We keep our minds open to the religious questions people have struggled with in all times and places.

We believe that personal experience, conscience, and reason should be the final authorities in religion. In the end religious authority lies not in a book, person, or institution, but in ourselves. We put religious insights to the test of our hearts and minds.
We uphold the free search for truth. We will not be bound by a statement of belief. We do not ask anyone to subscribe to a creed. We say ours is a noncreedal religion. Ours is a free faith.

We believe that religious wisdom is ever changing. Human understanding of life and death, the world and its mysteries, is never final. Revelation is continuous. We celebrate unfolding truths known to teachers, prophets, and sages throughout the ages.
We affirm the worth of all women and men. We believe people should be encouraged to think for themselves. We know people differ in their opinions and lifestyles, and we believe these differences generally should be honored.

We seek to act as a moral force in the world, believing that ethical living is the supreme witness of religion. The here and now and the effects our actions will have on future generations deeply concern us. We know that our relationships with one another, with diverse peoples, races, and nations, should be governed by justice, equity, and compassion.

Ogre840 · 05-08-2003, 08:58 AM

Religion to me is a crock...

So many people take their preachers interperations of "God" as the end all answer. And now a-day's there is so much comercialization around Jesus and Christianity I just can't take it. (same might be true for other religions, but i haven't seen it around where i live...)

It even says in the bible (or so im told, i haven't read it... i feel i should but certin people turn me off from it by preaching to me when i dont want to be preached at) that you shall not idolize images of jesus, or the cross, and stuff like that. Yet people still do! isn't it supposed to be a sin to do that?

along with that, missionaries bug me too. i feel that they are not RESPECTING other cultures and their religions. I know this glorious county we live in was founded basically by missionaries, but when you go to other countries and end up dead for spreading your religion to people that dont want you there, you dont have my sympathy, im just sorry. That also goes along with the people in my town, and school, that when they start talking about their religion, end up sounding like zombies, just reciting the same ole, same ole crap. it doesnt help me want to learn about religion.

XenuHubbard · 05-14-2003, 11:59 PM

I'm not a big fan of organized religion. Personal beliefs are none of my business, though.

The biggest problem I have with it is that all religions featuring Gods claim that "Largest amount of power = Right and Good".

To me, the biggest issue isn't what the real Power To Be is, but if I agree with the pushed agenda. Threats are not enough to make me bow down.

cheerios · 05-15-2003, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mango
Organized religion blows goats. It causes more wars and hardship than anything else. I am religious but do not subscribe whole heartedly to any one religion.

no. EXTREMISTS "blow goats". organized religion isn't good or bad, in itself. the problem comes when people stop thinking as individuals, and gain that group mentality, "we're doing this together, for god." Organized religion can be a wonderful thing. It's a group of people with similar beliefs that can support you in hard times, and who understand your religion. That's not a bad thing. now, going on a suicide bombing mission with your church isn't advised either, but, well... like I said. taking anything to it's extreme, religion, anger, even chocolate! is a bad thing. Everything in moderation.

WhoaitsZ · 05-15-2003, 03:44 PM

damned well said, cheerios.

radicals normally suck. christian, wiccan, peta, Brother Hood of the Boy bands.

it makes us other people look horrible. it psses me off.

Easytiger · 05-15-2003, 04:58 PM

So are you better off with religion or without it? Any comments?

HiThereDear · 05-15-2003, 06:18 PM

I'm an atheist, a true atheist, therefore I have absolutely no opinion on what beliefs other people have, other than that I know that I don't believe in the same.

Easytiger · 05-15-2003, 08:18 PM

But are you interested in what other people believe, HiThere? (I left off the "Dear" part because I don't know you yet...)

warrrreagl · 05-15-2003, 08:39 PM

---paraphrasing from the movie "Contact"----

He: Did you love your father?
She: Yes.
He: Prove it.

This sums up my own feelings of religion quite nicely.

MacGnG · 05-15-2003, 10:06 PM

well the simple answer is that it makes things easy. also most people are born into some religion or other so they do whatever they want with it.

me, i was born into Judaism and i like it and dont feel that there is anything wrong with it,well most of it anyway :P

my family is more religious then most but less religious then others and Judaism lets u do that, which is y i like it

oblar · 05-15-2003, 10:17 PM

I enjoy religion and faith..

It is part of my lifestyle and part of my beliefs. It is what I have grown up believing.. not because I was told to, but because I felt it was right.

that is all i'm going to say.

ajone · 05-15-2003, 11:03 PM

Hello.

What happens when you die? That's what Religion is all about, because death is the great unknown - folk don't usually come back to explain about it to the rest of us.

So Religion tells us where we go when we die. But what good is that w/out a hook? What's the hook? Live like ____________ and die like __________. Our insecurities lead some of us to commit our lives to one theory of life. A guidebook for living so that we can die and go where our own personal messiah wants us to go. Religion tells us that we're right, as there are a whole bunch of others (ala "A billion Chinese people can't be wrong") that think and believe the same as we do. So we're not wrong, you are. Etc, etc. War, political innuendo, and so on, and so forth.

Religion is the same messages, massaged and strained. Theologically/historically, Muslims, Jews, Christians all sprouted from the same root - Abraham, I believe. Religious strife can thus be compared in equity to a sibling squabble - but with greater stakes. Hey, archaeologically, you in Ohio, your fellow specitan in India, Africa, France, and Tahiti also sprung from common soil. Coincidence? Think not, please.

WE're all human. That's a common bond. We should all LOVE each other by that bond, by default. But We're all human - our egos tell us that it's okay to pass poor judgement on fellow man/woman in the name of religious fortitude/fervor. Some of us have died and killed for this. Some of us live for this before we live for ourselves.

Love each other, brother and sister. Sound familiar?

How bout this: "Do unto others as you would have done unto you"

Sound familiar? It is the maxim of all religions. The problem is the unspoken (or sometimes VERY spoken): "and by the way, everyone who doesn't feel the same as you is SH!t." Sad. As we've all heard in some madman's old testament reiteration: "and I shall strike onto thee...(all who speak against me/SELF? may as well be)"

Religion = Truth? How?

Religion = Faith. I believe... What's wrong with FAITH? Deserved or blind? What's wrong with believing in something? Having conviction? Deserved or blind?

______ = Truth? Is it so important to know? And if you know for yourself, don't you dilute it by trying to force it onto others.

Here's the kicker: YOU = TRUTH.

You are a solitary entity. Believe what you wish, for yourself and your self alone. PLEASE. You will see that when you do, you will be a better person - for yourself and your self. And when you are that better person, you won't be. You'll want to be even better.

What is religion? A story? A life strategy? A fraud? YES/NO!

A better question is:

Who are YOU?

And by answering that, we are each better for ourselves. And by default, better for humanity.

HiThereDear · 05-16-2003, 01:57 PM

Easytiger -

not specifically, i'm more interested in why they believe. I think most people who've looked at the various religions will agree that they are tremendously similar - superficially they may have different "characters" yet the majority all say the same thing, at least on the universal level, i'm not talking minor details or specifics.
Therefore, why does almost the entire world believe in this same idea? And why don't I? What about the origins of religion, its function, and its future? Did it serve the same function in the past that it does today? Will it continue in the future?

Anyways, you can call me dear now

.

Jesus Pimp · 05-17-2003, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ogre840
Religion to me is a crock...

So many people take their preachers interperations of "God" as the end all answer. And now a-day's there is so much comercialization around Jesus and Christianity I just can't take it. (same might be true for other religions, but i haven't seen it around where i live...)

It even says in the bible (or so im told, i haven't read it... i feel i should but certin people turn me off from it by preaching to me when i dont want to be preached at) that you shall not idolize images of jesus, or the cross, and stuff like that. Yet people still do! isn't it supposed to be a sin to do that?

along with that, missionaries bug me too. i feel that they are not RESPECTING other cultures and their religions. I know this glorious county we live in was founded basically by missionaries, but when you go to other countries and end up dead for spreading your religion to people that dont want you there, you dont have my sympathy, im just sorry. That also goes along with the people in my town, and school, that when they start talking about their religion, end up sounding like zombies, just reciting the same ole, same ole crap. it doesnt help me want to learn about religion.

This is how I feel as well.

Sun Tzu · 05-18-2003, 09:05 AM

Religion; it brings people together; it tears them apart. It's brought hope; its caused wars and bloodshed (even apparently here in thread).

My personal experience was being raised as a Catholic, switching to Protestant, to Baptist, a Jehovah Witness for 2 years, back to Baptist, then Southern Baptist, then surprisingly Wicca, Agnostic, Christian Science, back to Agnostic, the view from Conversations with God, Zen, Buddhism, Taoism, to here I am. As is seen I've been searching my whole life, and am still on a spiritual quest to find God, I’m not there yet. The reason I associate my views with Zen presently is because of the focus being on the way people interact and perceive the present world around them while on their quest if one exists. I believe whatever path brings a person closest to God is what right for them. Something that’s helps me day to day are promises I read that the Toltec’s had as their main philosophy. They were four promises each person made to themselves that would contribute to having a harmonious and simpler life:

1. Always do your best
This may change from day to day such as if your sick your best wouldn’t be as high as when you healthy, but as long as you know it was your best that’s all that matters.

2. Be impeccable with you word.
Treat integrity and honor as your personal gift to yourself; and enjoy the magic that follows.

3. NEVER assume what someone else is thinking.

4. Don’t take anything personally.
What someone says to or about you is their reality not yours, no need to give your power away and allow others to control your action and thoughts.

Memalvada · 05-18-2003, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by harry
Hi!

I'm a Roman Catholic on paper, allthough I never really believed in God or any supernatural being. I have always been reluctant to officially leave the Church - im an Austrian, so maybe Catholicism is in my bones or something.

For me being a Christian is more a matter of philosophy than religion. I am convinced the world would be much better a place if everyone lived by the rules that Jesus taught his followers. I try to share what I have, I accept others the way they are, I commit myself for what I think is right. I try to be a good person and the New Testament gives me a set of rules on how to do that.

If other people need some incentive (i.e. eternal live in heaven) to do the right things, thats okay by me, though I suspect its just wishfull thinking. Nonetheless I'll be pleasantly surprised if it all turns out to be true.

So I guess I'm a confused catholic agnostic. Shoot me.

I guess Im in the same situation as harry. Sometimes i get conflicting ideas about God, and I often question the Catholic Church. Sometimes its hard for me to understand how, if there is a God, does He/She (or whatever) allow so many awful things to occur in the world. There's so much pain and suffering, and destruction. But then I think (and I know its kinda off) that destruction is also a source of creation. Now I know im stretching the concept a bit, but it somehow applies....

I often hate the way the Church doesnt live up to its purpose. I live in a third world country, where there is an ENOURMOUS amount of poverty. And it makes me wonder, what is the church doing for all those unfortunate people? Giving them hope that they will go to heaven if they are humble and live by God's rules? I think im getting a bit political here, but I see the Church too often siding with the rich. I also dont agree with some of the traditions, I see them as useless and out-of-date. I also hate the way in which the initial conceps of religion have been altered, and made so restricting. I mean, any religion, during its beginnings, must have been very simple, and through the times, constructs have been added, and added, and added, to make it more complicated than it actually should be.

I'm aware that a lot of shit has happened in the name of religion. I dont think any religion encourages violence in any form, so I dont think any religion is to blame for those actions. It is actually a minority of people who 'bend' concepts a little here and there in order to justify their actions.

I am also quite tolerant to other religions. I hate all these fanatics who think their religion is right and the others are wrong. How do we know that who is right and who is wrong? I must admit that im nnot very knowledgeable about my own religion, but i read somewhere that catholics say that if you die without being baptised you to straight to purgatory.

And it makes me wonder: how is that fair to the rest of the people? God must be really screwed if that happens, because if a buhdist or someone who doesnt get baptised like we do goes straight to purgatory and yet he lived a better life than most people, how is that fair? Personally, I dont think that if there is an afterlife, and we get judged after death, that we will not be judged upon our social constructs.

Sorry if this post was a little hard to follow, but there's so much in my head, and has been there for so long, that its hard for me to put it into words...

buffto · 05-18-2003, 11:19 PM

organized religion is evil. Believe what you want to believe and let that be the end of it. Stop coming to my house you fucking mormons!

scarebearjinx · 05-26-2003, 03:19 PM

the church does disapoint me. they preach one thing and then do the oppisite. no offense to anyone here, but in some ways, religion does suck; especially the ones that teach you to go door to door or to try and save another religion of close or far similarities. but i have found that some of my questions have been answered by different religions, especially the teachings of buddah. in a buddist sense, religion is kind of like a ying yang. you can't have good without a little bit of evil, or evil without a little bit of good.

mtsgsd · 05-27-2003, 05:32 AM

To me, religion has two basic aspects:
1) It provides a means of power and control for those who lead the religion.
2) It provides a common code of behaviour that people can agree to follow, and a reason to follow it.

I'll also make one generalization about religion:
Show me someone who claims to follow their religion and I'll show you a hypocrite.

In other words, religion serves a purpose, but in the end it's all about what we want people to do, not a deity.

We can't help ourselves. Even if a deity showed up in person, gave incontrovertible prove of it's power, and gave us a set of laws, we'd add to it, imbellish it, and say that people who don't go above and beyond those laws aren't pious enough. Then we'd have splinter groups whose extensions are different from other groups. Finally, clerics of some of these groups will use their positions of influence to accomplish their own personal goals.

What ever happened to those 10 commandments? Got a little complicated since then.

Now this is not applicable to all religions, but it does cover the largest and most influential of the worlds religions. That's how they got that way.

To me religions should be viewed as a philosophy of life and no more.

duckznutz · 05-27-2003, 08:18 AM

Did God make us after we made him?

Only 2 things exist . .
1 - Mass (physical things. Wood, Steel, pencils, cars computers, fruit, fish, mountains, clouds, rain etc)

2 - Energy (heat, light, electromagnetic energy, potential energy, radiation etc)

EVERYTHING is one of these 2 things.

There is however a 3rd thing . . . 'abstract concepts'.
Abstract Concepts exist ONLY within an 'operating system' . . the human mind, an animals mind, a computer maybe?

Abstract Concepts include all emotion, love, hate, fear, jealously, language, writing (eg. this post), works of fiction, philosophy and religion. There is no love on the moon. There is no fear on the moon. there is no hatred on the moon. There is no God on the moon. There are no humans on the moon.

Science = Reality
Religion = Relative concept . . . . . . FICTION.

Little children believe in Santa Claus, baby jesus and the tooth fairy.
Any intelligent adult who seriously shapes and bases their daily life around any work of fiction (be it Star Trek, Star Wars, Harry Potter or 'the bible') is simply trying to escape the pressures and stresses of 'reality'. It is their right to do so . . . . . . . . . . . they may be weak and find comfort and safety with like-minded others.

It is my right to choose not to be a sheep. The lord is NOT my shepherd. I recognise the heirarchichal 'power-pyramid' structure of every church. I see that the churches are wealthy and that those in poverty are more inclined to be religious. I see through all of it so clearly and I think freely and live outwith the artificial rules and constraints that all religions impose. To be religious is immediately to be a hypocrite.

When you understand why you dismiss all gods other than your own, you will understand why I dismiss yours (with apologies).

duckznutz · 05-27-2003, 08:21 AM

Clearly I am in agreement with MTSGSD. There seems to be 2 kinds of people . . . 'scientists' (for want of a better word) and 'believers'.

Hey isn't the earth still flat!

Podmore · 05-28-2003, 09:25 AM

I consider myself an atheist, but technically I'm more of an agnostic. I have core beliefs of how I should live my life, and the existence or non-existence of god is sort of irrelevent unless there is one and he starts speaking directly to me. With or without a god, we're left to muddle through life as best as we can. I'm an engineer, and I don't see any reason or proof of the existence of god, which makes me believe there isn't one, but who knows. I certainly don't think less of anyone who does believe.

The place where I work makes rocket engines (including the ones on the shuttle), lasers, and space power systems. Some of the people here are amazingly smart. Lots of actual rocket scientists. Many of them are also deeply religious. I don't see a conflict there unless you start going into biblical literalism, which most of them don't.

duckznutz · 05-28-2003, 01:45 PM

Well I do not believe in god at all. Not even a little bit. But like Podmore I respect anyone elses right to make their own minds up about what life means . . . that is my core belief. Raytheon podmore? I live in Scotland and thats the only US company I know so I apologise if I am wrong! Anyway, I have often been intrigued by extremely smart scientists who are also religious . . . . . it does seem incongruous . . . I certainly dont think you are suggesting that smart people 'validate' religion . . . . .I guess you will find some of these same 'smart people' have marital problems, drink problems, social problems etc etc just like every other human being? perhaps the truth of the need for a faith lies in that direction?

Podmore · 05-28-2003, 05:39 PM

I bet you know the company I work for too, ducknutz, it's Boeing. It was Rockwell International when I started, but Boeing bought out my site. (Rocketdyne).

A lot of the great thinkers though the years have been very religious. I think there are a lot of stupid things done in the name of religion, but that doesn't make religion inherently stupid.

A lot of scientists are led to science because they love the joys and mysteries of the universe. Religion, I think, can appeal to the same sort of people.

duckduck · 05-28-2003, 09:35 PM

Just an interesting side note. I read this somewhere, but I forget who it was. I'm gonna paraphrase cuz I'm not exactly sure how he wrote it. It was written manly to the atheist crowd, I think.

"If I'm wrong about religion, I may look like a fool in this lifetime and, after we die, nobody's going to care.

However, if you're wrong about religion............."

I think he was trying to say that it's an awful risk for someone to not believe in anything--a risk where the reward isn't fully justifiable. Though, on another aside note, I also believe that, in a way, atheists do have their own religion:

from dictionary.com

Religion:

A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

05-07-2003, 09:54 AM	#81 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Jumpin Jesus... that is fairly close to how I feel these days (although I still take pleasure in the debate from time to time)... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-14-2003, 11:59 PM	#84 (permalink)
XenuHubbard Cute and Cuddly Location: Teegeeack.	I'm not a big fan of organized religion. Personal beliefs are none of my business, though. The biggest problem I have with it is that all religions featuring Gods claim that "Largest amount of power = Right and Good". To me, the biggest issue isn't what the real Power To Be is, but if I agree with the pushed agenda. Threats are not enough to make me bow down. __________________ The above was written by a true prophet. Trust me. "What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter and paranoid". - SB2000

05-15-2003, 08:39 PM	#90 (permalink)
warrrreagl pinche vato Location: backwater, Third World, land of cotton	---paraphrasing from the movie "Contact"---- He: Did you love your father? She: Yes. He: Prove it. This sums up my own feelings of religion quite nicely. __________________ Living is easy with eyes closed.

05-15-2003, 10:17 PM	#92 (permalink)
oblar Über-Rookie Location: No longer, D.C	I enjoy religion and faith.. It is part of my lifestyle and part of my beliefs. It is what I have grown up believing.. not because I was told to, but because I felt it was right. that is all i'm going to say. __________________ "All that we can do is just survive. .All that we can do to help ourselves is stay alive." - Rush

05-15-2003, 11:03 PM	#93 (permalink)
ajone Upright	Hello. What happens when you die? That's what Religion is all about, because death is the great unknown - folk don't usually come back to explain about it to the rest of us. So Religion tells us where we go when we die. But what good is that w/out a hook? What's the hook? Live like ____________ and die like __________. Our insecurities lead some of us to commit our lives to one theory of life. A guidebook for living so that we can die and go where our own personal messiah wants us to go. Religion tells us that we're right, as there are a whole bunch of others (ala "A billion Chinese people can't be wrong") that think and believe the same as we do. So we're not wrong, you are. Etc, etc. War, political innuendo, and so on, and so forth. Religion is the same messages, massaged and strained. Theologically/historically, Muslims, Jews, Christians all sprouted from the same root - Abraham, I believe. Religious strife can thus be compared in equity to a sibling squabble - but with greater stakes. Hey, archaeologically, you in Ohio, your fellow specitan in India, Africa, France, and Tahiti also sprung from common soil. Coincidence? Think not, please. WE're all human. That's a common bond. We should all LOVE each other by that bond, by default. But We're all human - our egos tell us that it's okay to pass poor judgement on fellow man/woman in the name of religious fortitude/fervor. Some of us have died and killed for this. Some of us live for this before we live for ourselves. Love each other, brother and sister. Sound familiar? How bout this: "Do unto others as you would have done unto you" Sound familiar? It is the maxim of all religions. The problem is the unspoken (or sometimes VERY spoken): "and by the way, everyone who doesn't feel the same as you is SH!t." Sad. As we've all heard in some madman's old testament reiteration: "and I shall strike onto thee...(all who speak against me/SELF? may as well be)" Religion = Truth? How? Religion = Faith. I believe... What's wrong with FAITH? Deserved or blind? What's wrong with believing in something? Having conviction? Deserved or blind? ______ = Truth? Is it so important to know? And if you know for yourself, don't you dilute it by trying to force it onto others. Here's the kicker: YOU = TRUTH. You are a solitary entity. Believe what you wish, for yourself and your self alone. PLEASE. You will see that when you do, you will be a better person - for yourself and your self. And when you are that better person, you won't be. You'll want to be even better. What is religion? A story? A life strategy? A fraud? YES/NO! A better question is: Who are YOU? And by answering that, we are each better for ourselves. And by default, better for humanity. Last edited by ajone; 05-15-2003 at 11:10 PM..

05-08-2003, 08:58 AM	#83 (permalink)
Ogre840 Banned Location: OlyWa	Religion to me is a crock... So many people take their preachers interperations of "God" as the end all answer. And now a-day's there is so much comercialization around Jesus and Christianity I just can't take it. (same might be true for other religions, but i haven't seen it around where i live...) It even says in the bible (or so im told, i haven't read it... i feel i should but certin people turn me off from it by preaching to me when i dont want to be preached at) that you shall not idolize images of jesus, or the cross, and stuff like that. Yet people still do! isn't it supposed to be a sin to do that? along with that, missionaries bug me too. i feel that they are not RESPECTING other cultures and their religions. I know this glorious county we live in was founded basically by missionaries, but when you go to other countries and end up dead for spreading your religion to people that dont want you there, you dont have my sympathy, im just sorry. That also goes along with the people in my town, and school, that when they start talking about their religion, end up sounding like zombies, just reciting the same ole, same ole crap. it doesnt help me want to learn about religion.

05-15-2003, 03:44 PM	#86 (permalink)
WhoaitsZ Crazy Location: right behind you...	damned well said, cheerios. radicals normally suck. christian, wiccan, peta, Brother Hood of the Boy bands. it makes us other people look horrible. it psses me off.

05-15-2003, 04:58 PM	#87 (permalink)
Easytiger Insane Location: Tigerland	So are you better off with religion or without it? Any comments?

05-15-2003, 06:18 PM	#88 (permalink)
HiThereDear Insane	I'm an atheist, a true atheist, therefore I have absolutely no opinion on what beliefs other people have, other than that I know that I don't believe in the same.

05-15-2003, 08:18 PM	#89 (permalink)
Easytiger Insane Location: Tigerland	But are you interested in what other people believe, HiThere? (I left off the "Dear" part because I don't know you yet...)

05-15-2003, 10:06 PM	#91 (permalink)
MacGnG Know Where!	well the simple answer is that it makes things easy. also most people are born into some religion or other so they do whatever they want with it. me, i was born into Judaism and i like it and dont feel that there is anything wrong with it,well most of it anyway :P my family is more religious then most but less religious then others and Judaism lets u do that, which is y i like it

05-16-2003, 01:57 PM	#94 (permalink)
HiThereDear Insane	Easytiger - not specifically, i'm more interested in why they believe. I think most people who've looked at the various religions will agree that they are tremendously similar - superficially they may have different "characters" yet the majority all say the same thing, at least on the universal level, i'm not talking minor details or specifics. Therefore, why does almost the entire world believe in this same idea? And why don't I? What about the origins of religion, its function, and its future? Did it serve the same function in the past that it does today? Will it continue in the future? Anyways, you can call me dear now .

05-18-2003, 09:05 AM	#96 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	Religion; it brings people together; it tears them apart. It's brought hope; its caused wars and bloodshed (even apparently here in thread). My personal experience was being raised as a Catholic, switching to Protestant, to Baptist, a Jehovah Witness for 2 years, back to Baptist, then Southern Baptist, then surprisingly Wicca, Agnostic, Christian Science, back to Agnostic, the view from Conversations with God, Zen, Buddhism, Taoism, to here I am. As is seen I've been searching my whole life, and am still on a spiritual quest to find God, I’m not there yet. The reason I associate my views with Zen presently is because of the focus being on the way people interact and perceive the present world around them while on their quest if one exists. I believe whatever path brings a person closest to God is what right for them. Something that’s helps me day to day are promises I read that the Toltec’s had as their main philosophy. They were four promises each person made to themselves that would contribute to having a harmonious and simpler life: 1. Always do your best This may change from day to day such as if your sick your best wouldn’t be as high as when you healthy, but as long as you know it was your best that’s all that matters. 2. Be impeccable with you word. Treat integrity and honor as your personal gift to yourself; and enjoy the magic that follows. 3. NEVER assume what someone else is thinking. 4. Don’t take anything personally. What someone says to or about you is their reality not yours, no need to give your power away and allow others to control your action and thoughts. __________________ *To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking* Last edited by Sun Tzu; 05-18-2003 at 01:47 PM..

05-18-2003, 11:19 PM	#98 (permalink)
buffto Crazy Location: Missouri	organized religion is evil. Believe what you want to believe and let that be the end of it. Stop coming to my house you fucking mormons!

05-26-2003, 03:19 PM	#99 (permalink)
scarebearjinx Psycho Location: in a deep, dark hole where rainbow creatures attack me to eat my fingernails.	the church does disapoint me. they preach one thing and then do the oppisite. no offense to anyone here, but in some ways, religion does suck; especially the ones that teach you to go door to door or to try and save another religion of close or far similarities. but i have found that some of my questions have been answered by different religions, especially the teachings of buddah. in a buddist sense, religion is kind of like a ying yang. you can't have good without a little bit of evil, or evil without a little bit of good.

05-27-2003, 05:32 AM	#100 (permalink)
mtsgsd Addict Location: Wisconsin, USA	To me, religion has two basic aspects: 1) It provides a means of power and control for those who lead the religion. 2) It provides a common code of behaviour that people can agree to follow, and a reason to follow it. I'll also make one generalization about religion: Show me someone who claims to follow their religion and I'll show you a hypocrite. In other words, religion serves a purpose, but in the end it's all about what we want people to do, not a deity. We can't help ourselves. Even if a deity showed up in person, gave incontrovertible prove of it's power, and gave us a set of laws, we'd add to it, imbellish it, and say that people who don't go above and beyond those laws aren't pious enough. Then we'd have splinter groups whose extensions are different from other groups. Finally, clerics of some of these groups will use their positions of influence to accomplish their own personal goals. What ever happened to those 10 commandments? Got a little complicated since then. Now this is not applicable to all religions, but it does cover the largest and most influential of the worlds religions. That's how they got that way. To me religions should be viewed as a philosophy of life and no more.

05-27-2003, 08:18 AM	#101 (permalink)
duckznutz Addict Location: Brook Cottage, Lanark, Scotland	Did God make us after we made him? Only 2 things exist . . 1 - Mass (physical things. Wood, Steel, pencils, cars computers, fruit, fish, mountains, clouds, rain etc) 2 - Energy (heat, light, electromagnetic energy, potential energy, radiation etc) EVERYTHING is one of these 2 things. There is however a 3rd thing . . . 'abstract concepts'. Abstract Concepts exist ONLY within an 'operating system' . . the human mind, an animals mind, a computer maybe? Abstract Concepts include all emotion, love, hate, fear, jealously, language, writing (eg. this post), works of fiction, philosophy and religion. There is no love on the moon. There is no fear on the moon. there is no hatred on the moon. There is no God on the moon. There are no humans on the moon. Science = Reality Religion = Relative concept . . . . . . FICTION. Little children believe in Santa Claus, baby jesus and the tooth fairy. Any intelligent adult who seriously shapes and bases their daily life around any work of fiction (be it Star Trek, Star Wars, Harry Potter or 'the bible') is simply trying to escape the pressures and stresses of 'reality'. It is their right to do so . . . . . . . . . . . they may be weak and find comfort and safety with like-minded others. It is my right to choose not to be a sheep. The lord is NOT my shepherd. I recognise the heirarchichal 'power-pyramid' structure of every church. I see that the churches are wealthy and that those in poverty are more inclined to be religious. I see through all of it so clearly and I think freely and live outwith the artificial rules and constraints that all religions impose. To be religious is immediately to be a hypocrite. When you understand why you dismiss all gods other than your own, you will understand why I dismiss yours (with apologies). __________________ Where your talents and the needs of the world cross . . there lies your vocation.

05-27-2003, 08:21 AM	#102 (permalink)
duckznutz Addict Location: Brook Cottage, Lanark, Scotland	Clearly I am in agreement with MTSGSD. There seems to be 2 kinds of people . . . 'scientists' (for want of a better word) and 'believers'. Hey isn't the earth still flat! __________________ Where your talents and the needs of the world cross . . there lies your vocation.

05-28-2003, 09:25 AM	#103 (permalink)
Podmore Crazy Location: SoCal	I consider myself an atheist, but technically I'm more of an agnostic. I have core beliefs of how I should live my life, and the existence or non-existence of god is sort of irrelevent unless there is one and he starts speaking directly to me. With or without a god, we're left to muddle through life as best as we can. I'm an engineer, and I don't see any reason or proof of the existence of god, which makes me believe there isn't one, but who knows. I certainly don't think less of anyone who does believe. The place where I work makes rocket engines (including the ones on the shuttle), lasers, and space power systems. Some of the people here are amazingly smart. Lots of actual rocket scientists. Many of them are also deeply religious. I don't see a conflict there unless you start going into biblical literalism, which most of them don't.

05-28-2003, 01:45 PM	#104 (permalink)
duckznutz Addict Location: Brook Cottage, Lanark, Scotland	Well I do not believe in god at all. Not even a little bit. But like Podmore I respect anyone elses right to make their own minds up about what life means . . . that is my core belief. Raytheon podmore? I live in Scotland and thats the only US company I know so I apologise if I am wrong! Anyway, I have often been intrigued by extremely smart scientists who are also religious . . . . . it does seem incongruous . . . I certainly dont think you are suggesting that smart people 'validate' religion . . . . .I guess you will find some of these same 'smart people' have marital problems, drink problems, social problems etc etc just like every other human being? perhaps the truth of the need for a faith lies in that direction? __________________ Where your talents and the needs of the world cross . . there lies your vocation.

05-28-2003, 05:39 PM	#105 (permalink)
Podmore Crazy Location: SoCal	I bet you know the company I work for too, ducknutz, it's Boeing. It was Rockwell International when I started, but Boeing bought out my site. (Rocketdyne). A lot of the great thinkers though the years have been very religious. I think there are a lot of stupid things done in the name of religion, but that doesn't make religion inherently stupid. A lot of scientists are led to science because they love the joys and mysteries of the universe. Religion, I think, can appeal to the same sort of people.

05-28-2003, 09:35 PM	#106 (permalink)
duckduck Psycho Location: Where hockey pucks run rampant	Just an interesting side note. I read this somewhere, but I forget who it was. I'm gonna paraphrase cuz I'm not exactly sure how he wrote it. It was written manly to the atheist crowd, I think. "If I'm wrong about religion, I may look like a fool in this lifetime and, after we die, nobody's going to care. However, if you're wrong about religion............." I think he was trying to say that it's an awful risk for someone to not believe in anything--a risk where the reward isn't fully justifiable. Though, on another aside note, I also believe that, in a way, atheists do have their own religion: from dictionary.com Religion: A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. __________________ Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way!