Z_UWF

Here's an idea I've pondered for a while. I thought it up back in high school (I'm a sophomore in college now) and have since seen related articles on various websites. The idea is not meant to be taken literally, but rather as a visualization tool.

Imagine the smallest piece of matter in the universe. For simplicity, we'll consider the atom. We could get more specific and go into quarks, but the point is to break everything down to the single, smallest unit of matter. Those units are, essentially, data. Now, imagine a massively complex computer, given the task of storing all of those pieces of data, and processesing those pieces of data based on certain fundamental laws or principles (laws of physics, etc). Now, everything within that simulation would know nothing of the environment beyond the simulation, would know nothing of its laws or limitations. Theoretically, this massive computer might have different laws that allow it to function faster, but the point is that it would not even have to be fast. It is beyond the time dimension inside the simulation, above it. It could processes the entire universe instanteously, or go on for billions of years to process a single day and nothing inside the simulation would feel any different.

For me, this is how I logically justify the existence of God, or at least the possibility. I consider the universe, as massive as it is, to simply be units of data processed in the mind of an all-powerful being. This is a tool for me to conceive a dimension beyond our own, above it. It makes me think that far too many intellectuals dismiss supernatural ideas ignorantly. If the possibility of a realm beyond our own is logically conceivable, then how can we insult those who believe it?

Diving a little deeper and slightly off topic:

If the universe is data processed in the mind of God, and God is storing all the data, then God is everywhere. If the entire history of the universe is processed inside the mind of God as a "simulation," then God is beyond time. If the sum of the universe is just data being processed by rules, then the one who controls those rules has the power to break them - miracles are not inconceiveable. What's the one thing (or at least the closest thing) that humans can create out of nothing? Information, thoughts, ideas, data. If all of the universe is data inside the mind of God, then God created something out of nothing.

Thoughts?

Kyo

The possibility that God exists never required justification. Failure to prove that something is false means the possibility of it being true exists, however minute or lacking in evidence.

This does not justify the existence of God - only that an external set of laws outside of our time domain may apply to our universe, a concept I don't think anyone has bothered disputing. God, as most people take Him, is considered a sentient, omniscient, omnipotent being.

As for dismissing supernatural ideas, this is usually not a product of ignorance, but rather arrogance, which, I would like to point out, many intellectuals are entitled to. After all, we haven't proven that humans don't have wings, or can't walk on water. Every trial and every physical law we have has shown that such cases simply shouldn't occur - but we can't prove that they absolutely can't occur, so the possibility exists. However, in these cases, the possibility is so small so as to be nonexistant in practical terms. Until we see it happen, it is safer to assume it impossible than the other way around.

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Z_UWF

Kyo: I use the word "justify" because I sense a sort of condemnation towards those who believe in anything supernatural. As if supernatural is beyond logical comprehension. I simply use this idea as a way to justify a belief in supernatural. Not prove the supernatural, not to disprove it, just to point out that there is a method to logically conceive it.

TheKak

I would hardly call dismissing an idea based on lack of evidence "arrogant". There is no evidence to support the "supernatural" or a God/gods, and the burden of proof lies on the person trying to prove the existence of such things, not the other way around.

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Z_UWF

TheKak: Not trying to prove anything. In fact, I never used the word "arrogant." I simply stated that I thought it was ignorant to dismiss the idea completely, since it can be comprehended without resorting to "magic."

TheKak

Kyo used the word arrogance, wasnt referring to you

Many many things can be comprehended, but just because you can come up with an idea that is possible (comprehendable), that doesnt mean it should be the basis for a belief. Its possible that our brains are floating in jars with a computer jacked into them, or that some powerful demon is just casting illusions on us, but would that justify a solid belief in such things? Hardly. I can comprehend that there is an invisible purple llama inside my closet, but I dont believe that either (I forgot who came up with the invisible purple llama idea, but thanks!).

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Z_UWF

TheKak: I understand the distinction. Certainly something that is possible is not always probable. However, I find it rather limiting to dismiss every unprobable idea as impossible.

Kyo

TheKak: Arrogance is implicit. If I am going to dismiss something as being absurd, I must have absolute confidence in my own knowledge.

After all, to dismiss the concept of God as absurd, we must be absolutely sure that he does not exist. In other words, we must believe that our knowledge is so complete and absolute that we are qualified to dismiss the existence of things that, for all intents and purposes, are beyond our ability to perceive or even comprehend. This is innate human arrogance.

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Killconey

Z_UWF have you ever read any of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy books? In the first book, the characters discover that the Earth was an enormous computer, with little mice operating it, dedicated to finding out what the meaning of life was. These books might give you more ideas on the universe as a computer as well as provide you with entertaining reading.

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CSflim

Z_UWF, it is a very good analogy for the world, and it is one which I often use to visualise things. Expanding on it, you would have physicists attempting to reverse engineer the source code of our super-program...in the search for The Theory of Everything.

But, using it for a justification for your belief in God is a very definite case of barking up the wrong tree.
There is nothing logically impossible about the existence of God to begin with. What makes sucha belief repungent is the complete and utter lack of evidence for his existence.

So many other things in life are "logically" possible, but yet we don't believe in them. It is entirely possible that the contents of your fridge spring to life and start to do a little jig the moment you close the door. It requires no "logical" justification to claim that such a thing happens, What it does require however is evidence.

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Z_UWF

Killconey: I'll look into it. I've heard about the book, but never read it.

CSflim: Don't get me wrong, I don't feel that I have to justify my beliefs to myself. My beliefs are a matter of faith, not a proven science that relies on evidence or what not. However, when it comes to explaining my belief to others, many people find the idea of miracles/creation completely unfathomable. Now, I'm not out to prove my beliefs to others, that would require the evidence you talk of. However, I would consider this a useful tool for having others comprehend my beliefs without forcing them to make that leap of faith into accepting the supernatural.

Dilbert1234567

there is no spoon

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