hobo

I assume that because God and Jesus are in heaven that people there follow the rules and don't sin and stuff. If that is the case, would you really want to go to heaven? Almost everything you can do is a sin. It would be a most boring place.

Hell would suck too, although the description of hell confuses me. I have heard that it is hot and you will be there burning forever. Does that mean Satan is also burning forever, and that hell is just one big place full of burning people? Assuming that Satan runs hell (another thing I've heard), why would he torture people for being what he wants them to be? In theory, wouldn't he just want them to keep doing what got them into hell in the first place?

I dunno, I haven't read the Bible or anything, and I am not a believer in any god so maybe someone could explain heaven and hell better to me.

maxero

feeling the pain in hell assumes that when you die you maintian your ability to feel, t'is all weird :/

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Pennington

Satan doesn't like humans because God does. His goal is to get them to reject God, just like God rejected him. God loves humans and it hurts him to see humans suffering in hell and that is why satan does it.
Heaven is described as eternal bliss. You are always happy. Matrix 1.0. With christianity, you have the choice between eternal suffering without any joy ever entering your life and eternal bliss without pain and suffering ever entering your life. This results in a Socrates(i think) cave problem. If someone in hell never knows joy, than sadness becomes the norm and she lacks anything to compare to. Same as in heaven. So in reality, heaven and hell are pretty much the same.

auswegian

I think the idea that Satan is supposed to control Hell is a bit of a myth, I think the general idea is that it is a "firey pit built for the devil and his angels" by God or some such. I'm assuming Satan wants to take as many humans down with him as possible. Why? If God is infinitely loving and forgiving, then sending so many of His children to Hell for eternity would surely result in infinite sorrow on the part of God. Satan knows he can't win, so he wants to cause God as much pain as possible. Revenge of a sort, I suppose.

As for Heaven, I assume we'd all be too immersed in the glory to really care about much. Orgasm, Euphoria, and the most intense pleasure imaginable, for all eternity. Oh, and Love and that shit. Sin would be irrelevant, the concept would have no meaning. I'm sure it would be nice, but it kinda scares me. Both heaven and hell would result in an equal loss of identity.

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"Look, I'm pretty relaxed for a guy who just lost money on a rave. And who's currently speeding down the highway drunk off my tits. And I'm being chased by someone in a blue Corolla. Woohoo! I just ran a red light!"

cliche

I always liked that story of heaven and hell, where a man sees hell - it's a giant banquet table filled with wonderful food and all are sat in their place. However, they all have to eat using spoons that are about 4 foot in length - and none of them are able to feed themselves. All are starving despite this extravagant feast.

The man then sees heaven; same table, same spoons, same rules. But the people are feeding each other, and all are having a great time.

Doubtlessly not intended to be accurate in any way, shape or form, but an interesting idea.

..."Hell is other people"

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I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones. -- John Cage (1912 - 1992)

stonecurran

of cource heaven is the place to go. think of paradise then times it by a google thats how good heaven is goin to be

Jesus Pimp

If you went to Heaven would you be able to have sex with anyone?

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Never date anyone who doesn't make your dick hard.

Macheath

First circle of hell would be pretty sweet, that's where all of the classical philosophers hang out.

Better learn Ancient Greek before I die.

asaris

Pretty much all anyone knows about heaven/hell (the Christian version) is the following:

1. Heaven will be wonderful.
2. Hell will be awful.
3. Our existence in heaven will be bodily, in some sense of that word.

Anything beyond that is speculation -- in fact, there are reasons to doubt 2. (Annihilationism -- the doctrine that the damned are rubbed out of existence -- does not contradict scripture, though I don't think that it's the best interpretation.) I've heard people argue that there will be sex in heaven, though that's difficult to reconcile with Christ's words that there will be no marriage in heaven.

A few other minor details: Hell will not be ruled over by the devil. He'll be suffering there like the other damned. Hell has not been created yet -- it won't be until the Second Coming and the Resurrection.

Of course, if anyone wants to claim to know more about heaven, they're welcome to prove it to me from scripture. And speculation can always be fun, but it's important to realize that it's just speculation.

Anyway, from a far too wordy post -- yes, heaven will be worth going to.

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"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

supernova

Here's another wrench to throw in: If Heaven is eternal, wouldn't that be somewhat like Hell? Imagine being in one place eternally, never being able to go anywhere else.

human

@Pennington - Very good point with the Cave problem, but wouldn't it be more or less dropped if the people in Heaven remember pain and heartbreak from their life on earth, and the people in Hell remember how great a cooling swim was on a hot day? (stupid examples, but still)

As for speculation on what to expect, (which as asaris says it's ALL speculation), My personal hope goes something like this :

Think of some of the top things you like to do. I'm mean really, truly enjoy doing, I don't mean just fucking someone cause 'it's like um sex and uh it feels good'. I mean like the feeling you when you grab the woman you love or nail that drop on your mt bike you've been scared shitless of for the past year or finally cresting that ridge after a couple of days hiking and look into the pristine valley below you. Oh yeah, and the ability to explore the universe, all of it. I'm going to be pissed off if I can't bomb around at super light speeds and check out all of creation. Infinite time + infinite space = lots of things to look at!

Hell on the other hand? My personal view was actually pretty similar to what showed up in that godawful movie Event Horizon. Chaos, pain, horror, endless.

Of course, I could be utterly wrong. The best part is there is only one way to truly find out. So it's damned fun to talk about.

@Macheath - Nah, I always figured most of the classical philosophers would be hanging out getting drunk and laughing about how wrong/right they were... And if they're having fun, well, that kinda rules out the hell part of it. (Dante's thoughts notwithstanding)

Rodney

Hey, what if _this_ is the afterlife? Are we being rewarded -- or punished?

chizzle

Wow, I never thought of it like that...but, I think Heaven is just a place to rest forever...like a great nap...I think you are limitless.

Eternity of any sort is kind fo scary though huh?

Either way I am pretty freaked out about it. Thanks for freaking me out more

Pennington

Human - Good point about knowing pleasure and pain in the present life and that being remembered in the afterlife. But you have to remember that eternity is really a long time. Sure the first millenia or two of pain will be pretty bad but you will sometime reach a point where the pain becomes a moot point. Same thing with heaven.

Many claim that hell is just the lack of God's love. That there is no hope of knowing god in hell. To me, this is just like a friend dying. You now lack that person's love and you have no hope of ever seeing him again. You get sad, you mourn, but you get over it.

Pleasure in heaven is supposedly like love. You feel God's love, friends love and humanity's love. All the time. Hell is a lack of this love. Some hold that in heaven there is physical pleasure and in hell there is physical pain and fear. I don't see this as true. Physical things have no place in a spiritual world. So in my version of hell, there is just a complete lack of joy and love for eternity, which is pretty bad. I heaven its all joy and love for eternity, which iss just as bad. Me, I'd rather just reach Nirvana and be over with it.
fyi- I'm a unitarian universalist who doesn't believe in heaven, hell or a personal god. I'm just one notch above being an athiest.

asaris

Why?

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"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

hiredgun

Plato, actually. Good point though.

bryan2766

i wouldn't really want to live FOREVER i mean come on, you would be bored out of your mind.

Moonduck

Wasn't there some historical studies done that show that an awful lot of modern ideas and concept of Satan, Hell, and the afterlife are all ideas leftover from the Middle Ages? I could swear that I read that somewhere. You know, Satan as red-skinned-horned, pointy tail, etc.

Katyblu

I see heaven as a personal thing, everyone's heaven would be different and thus would bring them pleasure and happiness that they could endure for the rest of their existence....

Also my view of Hell is not the Christian Hell.... its not being able to realize the beauty of earth and life and not being able to understand love and well just not being able to get "it".... your soul is left to haunt the earth and commune with other lost souls without finding peace until the soul can learn and understand these things.... There is no torture but there is no eternal peace and the soul will remain restless.....

BentNotTwisted

I think Pennington is right on the money here. The movie "What Dreams May Come" sums it up for me. In heaven you get to see the people you love and share the joy of that love. You also get to do whatever you can imagine because your thoughts create your reality. In hell you end up in utter dispair, loneliness, and desolation never knowing love or joy.

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IS THAT IT ???!!!
Do you even know what 'it' is?

When the last man dies for just words that he said... We Shall Be Free

Katyblu

Oh and the Devil was created by men to make people follow church law....... Screw the Dark Ages!

hobo

True true! I would rather just stop existing after death then spend eternity anywhere I think. I think I heard that people who don't get baptised don't go to heaven or hell. That is sweet because I don't thin I got baptised and that is good because I don't care for religion.

NotMinus

I don't think spending eternity in heaven would be confined to a single area. Assuming that there was everyone who ever existed and passed away there would some facinating people to meet and knowledge to learn. People claiming Near Death Experiences (N.D.E.) claim that after talking to god they are told that the souls return to earth to learn more and share new experiences. I don't know if I belive in any of it, but if a place existed full of people with out being bound by the confines of physical form and laws, I couldn't imagine ever getting bored.

KoKenZen

sorta kinda the satanic picture we have to day was STOLEN by christians from "pagan" religons (just like christamas the may pole halloween and pretty much all there other customs) to try and make there chief godly figure look bad he was red with horns and a tale i think he was a sun god

Macheath

I don't think "living" (as a conscious state similar to life) in heaven forever would be a pleasant thing. In a way, the idea of consciously doing anything forever is almost more terrifying than the idea of dying. People who desire to "live" in heaven perhaps haven't considered the meaning of eternity.

Ultimately, I think the idea of Nirvana is perhaps more desirable than the idea of Heaven. I would prefer a transcendant and absolute state of extinguishment and bliss to being a conscious spiritual entity "living" in heaven.

I'm not saying that the Christian Heaven ISN'T a similar state of transcendent bliss, I just think the Buddhists express the idea more evocatively whilst the Christians think of it as a place where good people "go".

Moonduck

KoKenZen:"sorta kinda the satanic picture we have to day was STOLEN by christians from "pagan" religons "

Heh, let's not get started on the varous concepts Christianity has stolen from 'pagan' religions. That's a whole thread by itself =)