Honesty

Does anybody want to discuss Thelema?
The method of science—the aim of religion.

Illuminati, Sons of Light, Brotherhood of Melchizedek, Invisible College.
Secret Societies? The Knights Templars sub rosa?

I'm here to offer my knowledge and experience if anybody wants to go there.
Otherwise, I'll just let the thread die and fade into oblivion.
I have nothing else to say about it unless someone is genuinely interested.
Just thought I'd throw it out there, for the sake of stimulating conversation.

Ourcrazymodern?

Yes & no. Secret societies piss me off, but I'd like to know what you have to say about them, if Honestly presented. Define your terms.

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

ring

I would like to hear of your experiences.

Tell us what drew you into this, and what drove you away.

hunnychile

What's the "Invisible College" and NO, please...it can't be paraphrased from one of the History channel shows.

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"I need compassion, understanding and chocolate." - NJB

Honesty

CrazyModern, why do secret societies piss you off?
I like elite eclectic social networks, but I do not believe in secrecy, never have.
I see privacy and secrecy as a form of dishonesty because in Oneness or in "Heaven" all is known, all is revealed. Privacy and secrecy are lies, illusions, not really there in the end.

Ring, what drew me into this?
It started for me in kindergarten. I am a sort of "alien abductee or contact".
My father did magic tricks, he could breath fireballs, and pull a blanket through one ear and out the other. When I saw him do these things at such a young age I decided I wanted to learn about magic powers.
I was casting horoscopes at age 13 and memorized the Holy Books of Thelema at 18.
I joined the A.'.A.'. (Silver Star) under the tutelage of Martin P. Starr, and joined Horizon Lodge O.T.O. I quickly rose through the ranks and became a Master of the Temple in the early 90's. Attained to the grade of Magus in 1999 upon publication of my book TATOAT (The Absolute Truth of All Things).

What drove me away?
The politics of the secret government. Lies and slander. Greed. They tried to silence me, to blacklist me because I knew too much. I began leaking information and exposing the frauds. I broke away and started running my own crew, and they didn't like that very much.
You'd be amazed at how influential these people are, and manipulative. The disinformation they spread, the control they have over others who don't even know who they are. It's mind-boggling.
Recently I've concluded there is no way to beat them, no way to win, so I basically gave up.
I'm out of the game for now, I still have my eye on them, and they on me, but we don't play together so much anymore.
In fact, now that I've posted this, it is only a matter of time before they find me here. If you notice an odd influx of new members suddenly, it's them.
I do enjoy sharing what I know, and what I've been through. Few people are interested in this kind of thing so I rarely get to open up. Many even mock me or chose to believe I'm making up lies.

ring

I used to have my father's old Shriners Hat.

He wouldn't tell me anything about it.

The power that you claim these people have,
I don't quite understand. Is it just people with money? Big business?

I do understand the power, Capitalist Corporations have, and their current reign over
our government these days. Or are you talking about something different?

hunnychile

Okay, so spill some good stuff.

__________________
"I need compassion, understanding and chocolate." - NJB

Honesty

Hunnychile, the Invisible College is a global network of psychics and telepaths who mediate all newly transmitted unspeakable ideas between the Earthworld and the otherworldly entities in attempts to provide solutions for all the various factions involved piloting the human race forward co-creating the future. It has existed for thousands of years, back to the Egyptian Pharaohs, Akhenaten , Moses, the Brotherhood of Melchizedek, the Inca and Aztecs.
For more recent information about the Invisible College, google Drunvalo, or Terrance McKenna.

Ring, sometimes big money is involved, with some factions. Other factions don't care about money at all, in fact they gain power by refusing to touch money.

When I talk about power some of these groups have, it's spiritual, metaphysical, mystical power. The power of ancient wisdom. The power of Love.
Men often love other men because of their knowledge. They want what other men have in the way of their strength of faith, or for their understanding or skill of Art.
Often religious zealots have no money, artists have no money, but they are loved and people will follow them to the ends of the earth. This sort of influence can be more dangerous than big money. In many ways they are rivals, the money holders and the penniless. Greed is a root cause of evil wrought in the world.
The power of those who refuse to deal with cash profits, they are more wholesome, complete, free, and authorized to govern the masses.
Those with all the cash do most of the governing however, to the misfortune of innocence.

What I find most intriguing about the illuminati is the way all the rival factions subsist together with the mutual responsibility of informing people, enlightening them, meanwhile keeping them from advancing too far with their powers.
Like the freemasons, they have their fingers in every aspect of society, law enforcement, media, education, entertainment, food service, transportation, everything.

Many people will rear their heads saying "I don't believe in magical powers", but these people are ignorant, silly and narrow minded. One doesn't have to look very far to find proof of the miraculous and magical. Most people just don't care to look, and it's really not their place to know anyhow.

ring

If it's not their place to know, who is making this judgment,
and does it not tie back into what you said earlier that secrecy are lies are illusions?

roachboy

wait. thelema in a sense that is different from, say, the o.t.o.?

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Honesty

hunnychile, let me know your idea of "good stuff", and i'll do my best to spill it for you.

ring, humankind is not here on earth to be One with God. It is not a man's place to be omniscient. However, there are those born to fill that position, they are called Prophets, and Shaman and Wizards.
Who is making the judgment? Anybody who wants to know the truth of the innermost secret hidden machinations of the universe can know the answers, but what stops people is fear. But fear is an illusion like death, there is nothing to be afraid of.
People love to pretend that wonder and mystery abounds, that's life.
The purpose of life as it applies to men is simply to operate as batteries carrying information stored in genetic code through blood lineage through time. That is mankind's only function. Man is not here to understand but to stretch the fabric of time.

roachboy, i don't understand your question.
Thelema is essentially a religion that exists outside the OTO yes.
Any person who believes 'Do what thou wilt' is Thelemite.
Thelemites can be of christian faith or anarchist, or buddhist, or whatever they want to call themselves.

roachboy

huh.

i have friends who were down with the o.t.o. and other related things but i was never able to get with it because of the way in which the religious dimension(s) work(ed)...my personal attitude is more on the order of: if you meet the buddha on the road, kill him.

this not literally of course.

more in the sense of if there are areas to be explored and/or things to be understood or known or transmitted they would vary with each period and if they vary with each period at the levels of form and content so obviously at the level of meanings and implications, it follows that they have to be assembled in ways specific to each period.

religious thinking tends to posit a repeating essence, be it at the level of rhetoric at the level of ritual at the level of insight or meaning. and that seems to me an aesthetic matter that has little to nothing to do with getting to whatever these things might be that need to be assembled or known or transmitted with are particular to each period.

you say people are prevented from moving to the heart of some machinery out of fear.
i think people are moved to posit a single machinery into the heart of which they can move out of the same fear.




obviously it's fine to believe as you like: whatever you see yourself as finding Out There you will find in ways and in terms that are particular to how you imagine the Out There to be. it's like that with everyone i suspect.

but if it's like that with everyone, then it makes little sense to posit a single Out There or an unbroken chain of Out Theres or a single message or even the idea of a message or a higher being or beings.
it also makes little sense to not posit a higher being or beings or the idea of a message or a single message that comes through an unbroken chain of Out Theres or through a single Out There.

either way, you find what you are looking for in the way that you are looking for it.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Honesty

or to put it simply, the Absolute Truth is ever changing, but contains within itself the key to the whole, and yes, that is available to any being that seeks it.

The_Jazz

For the record, I've simply restored Honesty's original posts. He threw a temper-tantrum on his way out of here over an issue completely unrelated to this topic. This thread is debately his best contribution to the board.

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

LordEden

So... this guy thought he could cast magic? Not wiccan power raising or influencing auras and personalities? Like elves and high wizards kinda stuff? Wow.... I mean I love the idea of magic but it's not real. I mean, if there was a way to start throwing fireballs around, I'd be the first one on board. I want to live in a land of elves, knights, dragons and yes, hobbits. That's a fantasy world, not the real world.

*Inner Hobbit Child*

"I wanna cast a spell! I cast... magic misssssle."

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Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich

Baraka_Guru

I was thinking it was more along the lines of the illusionist stuff.

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Idyllic

It was illusionist shit all right, hey, look at my left hand while you don't see my right hand hunting for prey and fishing for seekers, using your website to call the other hunters, as he said, people would be showing up. I think he mistook the mature nature of this boards "sexuality" for something a bit sinister....... He has his own "forum" if you will, immersed in children and raising young and his own form of religion.??.

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you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

Idyllic

This is NOT science - This is occultism, not "religion" - There is very little true knowledge here, if any. He thought it out all right, like a fisherman casting his bait, follow his discussions, look at his request for others to post material "that a man like him would like" even his desktop was awash with little children. All he spoke about was children, preferably under age 13, yet he had no children of his own and constantly belittled mature woman and maturity in woman alone calling them wicked. This is not personal for me, this is factual, and I wanted to point out some of the dark realities behind thelema that are hidden to most outsiders, just be careful within this realm of mysticism, it really is just another form of trickery and tyranny over the people who are looking for peace in all the wrong places, if you are feeling vulnerable, these people will use you, they are not all who they want you to believe they are.

Child molesters love to use religions as there explanation and excuse to promote sexual abuses. This guy was no joke……. This “religion” is a cult…… mystic my ass……

There are plenty websites that talk of this “mystic” bs, and discuss the underlying perversions some have taken from it, including Crowley himself, believe what you will, but be careful how far you let this take you from reality.

Some of these site are satanic in nature, forewarned.

ALEISTER CROWLEY: THE FLOPHOUSE ANTI-CHRIST

more about Crowley, the creator of thelema.

These people destroy children. I am not implying ALL those who worship this “occult” stuff are pedophiles, it just seems to attract a lot of that type of people as his base belief was “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of law” or basically anything and everything you do is o.k. because it is just human nature and human consumption, nothing you do is “wrong.” There is talk of him physically hurting his own children and then their mysterious deaths. Be careful you guys, people like this will own you if given the slightest chance.

If you wish to research more, there is plenty material, even the “book” by Crowley talks of maiden sacrifice and nubile persons. This is some real scary occult shit, I find it extremely nauseating, but I think you should all know the darker side of the thelema cult before you buy into it.

__________________
you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

roachboy

well, in defense of some aspects of thelemic practice, it's not all the same as honesty would have you think. i have alot of friends who are involved with versions of this. they're all quite healthy normal people who are interested in magick. there are crazy people out there and there are crazy people involved with this sort of magick practices, but not all are so and there's nothing particular about the practices that draw more crazies than any other religion does. what it does tend to draw, in my experience, is people who are interested in fantasy novels and being all "dark"--they usually stick around because the ""magick" is mostly group visualization rituals, so forms of group meditation.

so let's not go all fundy protestant about "the Occult" please.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Idyllic

I am not protesting a religion or someones rights to believe the way they feel, I am merely making a factual note in some of the root observations of Crowley (the developer of thelema, later leader of O.T.O) and the ties to the occult, if not the "cult" mentality altogether and this brand of "beliefs" that linger more in satanic views and it's deviation from base "let's all just be kind to each other" with out the live sacrifices or preying on weak people to get our own "souls" happy.

Don't turn this into some form of Jesus worship denying other religions, this is not what I am talking about. I never said all those who are interested in magic or even believe this stuff are bad, I am merely recognizing the potential for this cult business to be pretty deep and encompassing more that many will expose on the surface. Don't twist my words into something they are not.

Read up on Crowley and his beliefs and the O.T.O. look for the Presidio day care incident in S.F., this brand of the occult absolutely draws more crazies than most, there is just simply no way to avoid attracting crazies when you worship evil..... he wanted to be called "The Beast 666," he called himself that.

I don't understand how refuting this is fundy protestant? It's not nice to use protestantism as an excuse to discredit anything, nor to make it seem anything more than what it really is, I'm not, but whatever, I just wanted people to know what else thelema and the O.T.O. teach before they buy into the "fun" "majik" selling parts of it.

I'm pretty sure this brand of occult thinking is going to draw a lot more "crazies" (especially sadistic crazies), than some others that aren't based in devil worship...... imo.

__________________
you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

roachboy

that's nice.
it's good that you did a little bit of work on crowley. and to be clear, i don't really have an iron in this fire to the extent that i don't personally do the magick thing. but i have alot of friends who do in various ways.

so what i'll tell you is that you're pretty misinformed about the reality of groups like the o.t.o. first, they aren't cults. quite the opposite. they're more dominated by an anarchisant sensibility that way, so they're less coersive than are most christian sects on members. but it follows from the central dicta, you know? do what thou will shall be the whole of the law and all that. hardly makes sense to get all you will burn in the fires of hell unless you believe the way we tell you to based on that, now does it?

second there's little point in denying that it's entirely possible that people with varying types of damage can latch onto oto, just as it's entirely possible that people with damage can latch onto anything else.


the main reason i never bothered with oto practices is the emphasis on oaths in their rituals first, which presuppose a kind of belief that i simply dont have. most of the folk i know who are more religiously inclined, so are more likely to play along with those games, believe in a whole lot of entities which they say are fun to play with or enable different things or whatever.

my experience with these folk is that they're an interesting quirky bunch who are basically religious folk but who have decided for whatever reason that they want to be all "dark" about it. some a pretty sophisticated, some aren't. alot of them i know anyway like dressing up in curious outfits.

so i see no connection between oto or crowley even and the particular creepiness of individuals. i know creepy baptists. seriously. baptists that concerned me way way more than 99% of the people in the oto that i have met. go figure.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Ourcrazymodern?

Go figure. My particular creepiness makes me distrust (& protest against) any who tell me they know any truths that they keep as secrets. This thread provides no illumination.

__________________
BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

ring

My next question for Honesty would have been:

"Do you have any experience with the uniting of the microcosm with the macrocosm,
during sex magick rituals?"

I've been curious & slightly aroused, reading about this practice.

Too bad he flaked out on us.

roachboy

like i said, i dont really have an iron in this fire, and certainly am not interested in defending the particular shared understanding of what terms like esoteric mean or imply.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

ring

When I glance at this thread title without my glasses on,
I see Thelma & louise.

Ourcrazymodern?

I thought they were both kind of sexy. Too bad they died. My maternal grandma's name was Thelma. My mom's middle name is Louise. Honestly.

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT