lofhay

I have come to the realization that the single most destructive and abusive piece of religious dogma ever foisted on the mind of a gullible young person is the idea that all mankind (this means you) are sinners and thus unworthy of anything but death. Once convinced of this mistaken image of himself, the person becomes a slave to the religious authority which indoctrinated him, and then he has to spend his best efforts, in his most potentially productive years, learning how to cope with the guilt and feeling of inferiority which the concept engenders, not to mention the loneliness, fear, anxiety and depression also accompanying.

Idyllic

"I" believe it's "all" humans are sinners (make mistakes, miss the mark), therefore no one is better than another, and we are "all" promised eternal life through faith........ I think somebody lied to you.

Just my opinion and what I teach my children.

---------- Post added at 04:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:53 PM ----------

How can one be so unworthy of life that all they deserve is death, that would be an oxymoron.

How can one not recognize the worthy life they have been offered and presented with and not waste it blaming anyone but themselves. Make much of little, it seems most who bash never stop to understand the bell curve, humanity, and how people perceive their own existence, some people need that crutch, let them have it, just don't let them beat you with it.

I haven't read any post yet that was "spreading the word" but I sure have read a lot against it.

__________________
you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

DaveOrion

You may be referring to this quote.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6:23

I personally believe this means spiritual death.

__________________
Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

Baraka_Guru

There is the dogma.

But from a spiritualist's point of view, the idea of sin and "the fall of man" can be viewed as humans being imperfect and carrying with them a moral burden. This can be cleansed by doing good deeds and refraining from committing more sins. A failure to do so will lead to suffering and misery (aka hell).

It wasn't a new concept at the advent of Christianity, Siddhārtha Gautama thought of a similar one some 2,500 years ago.

And the interesting thing is that this is something that psychologists examine in their own way.

Why do we feel miserable? How do we become depressed?

A lot of these things have to do with the consequences of our actions, and what others may or may not have done to us. The problem of religion isn't that it believes in good and evil, or sin and virtue, it's that it often muddies the waters.

I try separate most dogma from what's at the core of religion, much of which is quite universal amongst human beings, both religious and non-religious.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Willravel

You're broken in some way. It doesn't matter whether you were aware of it before, or even if what we're saying makes sense, we insist that you're broken in some way. Don't worry, though, because we have a way of fixing you. It doesn't matter that you have to devote yourself to us for the rest of your life, and that you'll never actually be fixed of the thing we tell you is broken until you're dead.

It's the oldest "gotcha" in the book and it's something common of most if not all religions and cults.

Cimarron29414

Organized religion like all systems can fall into the temptations of man and the trappings of power.

lofhay, please try to make a distinction between this particular realization and the other teachings of your faith. I'm pretty sure you will come to the conclusion that they don't align and that the people who tried so hard to teach you this were more interested in the power than the faith.

Assuming you grew up in a Christian faith, you should know that original sin is forgiven through the death of Christ and that your faith in him gives you eternal life. That is an intensely personal journey and doesn't require other people or a checkbook to fulfill.

I'm sorry you are so angry.

__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

rahl

Actually original sin can only be forgiven through baptism. Christ died in order for us to be able to enter into heaven. 12 years of catholic school speaking...I stopped drinking the kool aid in college.

__________________
"Your life is Yours alone...Rise up and live it"

bow35

There is no sin apart from sex. And this I man like, yes. Guilt and inferiority on the other hand is all about confidence and humanity. If you lack confidence there is no guarantee that another will guide you. It's a cruel world. That otherone migth be sick in his spirit or unrigteous and make you feel guilty and inferior.

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Everything is allowed, but not everything is healthy

Idyllic

bow35, sex is not a sin.

The term "sin" in my teachings means "to miss the mark" or to come up short of your true potential, your true self, to be untrue to yourself and your faith. It is mankind who has put laws in God's mouth, fair enough, there was a time in humanities past that we needed someone other than humans to set down laws, like a monster under your kids bed to keep them in their, it was important and people knew fear was control so they used God to scare people into formation, it was needed to create a cohesive unit of society, we need it less now, at least God's law part, we have mankind's law now, which is actually just an extensions of what was taught as God's law, but without all the fear.

God is all about love, plain and simple, and even when they preach it wrong, in the end they are trying to create unity and love, human selfishness just gets in the way. Sex, in itself, is not a sin.

__________________
you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

GreyWolf

Baraka_Guru has hit the mark. The concept of teaching children is not to condemn them to a life of misery on the road to death, but rather to teach that life brings with it a moral obligation to improve the lot of our human brethren. This isn't a religious concept, it's a biological imperative, bred into our genes by God/nature/random chance (take your pick). Humans are social animals, and our survival as a species required that we pool our resources.

As our societies grew more complex, we added structure and social convention. What religion did was try to express that in a symbolic way, codifying it so that a successful society could pass on the values, traditions, learning, and technologies that enabled them to thrive. Those that didn't do this, didn't last long.

On that basis, whether the non-religious and anti-religious amongst want to believe it or not, humans are BIOLOGICALLY PROGRAMMED to be religious at some level. There really isn't much question about that. The big question about it is whether or not a divinity is responsible.

__________________
The secret to great marksmanship is deciding what the target was AFTER you've shot.

rahl

This is total BS. Please provide some citations.

__________________
"Your life is Yours alone...Rise up and live it"

SecretMethod70

Actually, it's very likely true, though GreyWolf fails to mention that there are also indications that some humans are predisposed to doubt as well. There is a lot of discussion of religion as an evolutionary byproduct; only the most charitable interpretation could take this as an indication that there might be an actual divine being behind it. It makes far more sense to see this as evidence that religion is, in fact, merely in our perception and not objectively true.

There's a whole ton of information out there on the subject, but here are a few links and videos...

Religion is a product of evolution, software suggests - life - 27 May 2008 - New Scientist
Evolutionary psychology of religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



And there's much, much more.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

bow35

Traditionally, sin and sex are synomyms.
And I man is happy and proud when his woman looks at him with sinfull eyes.
Simple as that.

Sin without sex
is a missconception
guilt

__________________
Everything is allowed, but not everything is healthy

Willravel

The only time it's not a sin, according to Abrahamic scripture, is when sex is used specifically for procreation. Otherwise, it's basically always sinful and something you should be ashamed of and seek forgiveness for through the church. Masturbation, premarital sex, homosexuality and bisexuality, pulling out (seriously, it's in Genesis 38:9-10), and divorce are all unequivocally sinful according to the Abrahamic texts.

Idyllic, sex without procreation is a sin according to the Torah, Bible, and Qur'an. This is not opinion, it's verifiable and undeniable fact. I'm sorry if it makes people uncomfortable, but if this is the faith you choose to live your live by, you've made that commitment. I'm afraid you've made your bed, and now you have top lie in it without doing anything but sleep or procreation.


Personally, I love sex. It's perfectly natural, it's highly enjoyable, it plays an integral part to romantic love and it's an outstanding way to burn calories. Sex is where it's at.

DaveOrion

Somehow I doubt Idyllic is an Orthodox Jew living in strict accordance to the laws & precepts set down in the OT. I could be wrong.

__________________
Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

Ourcrazymodern?

Dogma's fun: You can pet it. When it's wrong, you can scold it, if you're not afraid it might bite you. I don't think it has any teeth.

__________________
BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

Dusk

Those videos were really interesting and awesome to watch. I have more information than time to assimilate it all, :/

Glad I'm not alone.

The irony is that religion itself misses the mark and becomes as humanized as the humans it seeks to transform by being spoken of the thing it is rather than being what it is.

Let's picture two kids in the playground attempting to play basketball.
One practices basketball, the other one speaks of how great he is doing.

The one who plays basketball can be joined. The one who speaks of how great the one who is playing is doing can be argued with.

A third person can come along, listen to what the debators have to say, synthesize an interesting perspective, and then join the game and bring something fresh to it.

In meeting our obligation to one another we also help ourselves - we are one another.

I want to speak a little bit about the concept of sex, or what I think I've learned about it so far.

Sex is not a sin if we assimilate it into the definition of what we are; it stops being a sinful thing and becomes another facet of ourselves that can enrich our lives. Besides, if the sex is any good it will get attacked at first - that's just an indication that it's an opportunity for growth, and with patience the new idea that is proposed will eventually transform the entirety of culture to being a higher expression of what it was previously - while also having the potential to be absurd owing to the cyclical nature of life.

The obvious fact of the matter is (it seems to me) that parents tell their children that sex is a sin because they are heavily invested in keeping their children away from sexuality activity, because it disrupts their family without a thorough synthesis for which more time would be necessary than merely an hour or two between the sheets.

Ourcrazymodern?

Guilt comes from religionists who have forgotten this &/or don't love themselves enough. You stated your knowing in the OP, lofhay. I think you should use it for wings.

__________________
BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

DaveOrion

Yea, what he said. Another biblical quote, err......uh, I think, yes, the apostle Paul & John

Love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love.
There's nothing you can do that can't be done.
Nothing you can sing that can't be sung.
Nothing you can say but you can learn how to play the game
It's easy.
There's nothing you can make that can't be made.
No one you can save that can't be saved.
Nothing you can do but you can learn how to be you
in time - It's easy.

All you need is love, all you need is love,
All you need is love, love, love is all you need.
Love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love.
All you need is love, all you need is love,
All you need is love, love, love is all you need.
There's nothing you can know that isn't known.
Nothing you can see that isn't shown.
Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be.
It's easy.
All you need is love, all you need is love,
All you need is love, love, love is all you need.
All you need is love (all together now)
All you need is love (everybody)
All you need is love, love, love is all you need.

__________________
Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...