yatzr

another question that my philosophy instructor buddy had for me. What's the difference between signs and symbols? there were a few fights over this one. Some people said that there was no difference, some said there was. Here was my argument.

I consider a sign like a street sign. Without the underlying message of the sign, it is nothing, it is worthless. If the sign had no meaning, it would be a piece of metal in the middle of nowhere and have no value to anybody.

I consider a symbol something that by itself is something of value, but because of the situation, has an added underlying meaning. Like a necklace that your late grandma gave you that is a symbol of her. If it didn't have the underlying meaning, it would still be a necklace and something of value.

what are your thoughts?

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Sleepyjack

to me, signs have a quantitative objective nature, in that anyone who interprets them should understand them the same. like a street sign, it only really means one thing.

A symbol has a more subjective nature in that they represent something different to each person and generally the sentimental and personal stuff. as you described.

monody

i agree with sleepyjack.

a sign is something that is definitive. it has a concrete reason, a purpose and a meaning.

a symbol is one of those things on a drum set...
er
i mean a symbol is something that is representative of an abstract idea.

one is used to convey a concise message (i.e. 'stop', 'women', 'one way')
the other to convey a feeling. like smilies. it's more open to interpretation whether the person who's smiling is smiling at themselves, or because they're taking the bite out of what they said, or if they're smiling at the person they are chatting with.

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RatherThanWords

signs - objective
symbols - subjective

I think that pretty much sums it up, IMO

Lebell

A sign points to an object, thing, location, etc.

whereas a symbol embodies the concept.

Example, a sign that points to a church has no deeper meaning whereas a crucifix embodies a complete (if different to each individual) set of beliefs.

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GoldenOuroboros

I was looking for the Words and Sleepy Jack got it for me

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duckznutz

Signs contain 'language' . . . symbols are abstract representations requiring interpretation . . hence the notion that there is a degree of subjectivity to symbols.

Consider also . . . there are only 5 kinds of signs . . . . but there are unlimited kinds of symbols.


The 5 sign types : -
Information Signs - Places to eat, Miles to travel, Directions etc
Mandatory Signs - things you MUST do. eg. STOP
Prohibitory Signs - Things you must NOT do eg. No overtaking
Advisory Signs - eg. Road liable to flooding etc
Warning Signs - Danger notices. Cliff ahead etc

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phukraut

consider someone who was raised in the jungle. they see their first stop sign and dont' know what it means. someone jokes that it is symbolic of the world's fascination with death (the ultimate stop). if the jungloid believes that it's a symbol, what makes it not a symbol?

if it's about the intention of the creator or legislator, or even the majority, then where does that leave certain kinds pop-art? is it a sign because we are told it's a sign? to some the Bible is a symbol if how to live ones life, to others it's a sign pointing to actual points in history. which is it?

alpha phi

In order to better understand something, it can be easier to brake it down to the lowest common denominator.
A symbol is a small marker such as the letter "A".
A sign is a collection of symbols to relate a larger message.

The stop sign mentioned earlier shows this:
The octigon shape is a symbol
the color is a symbol
Each letter "S" "T" "O" "P" are symbols
seperate the symbols have little meaning, together in order, they mean "your car needs to stop here"

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Moonduck

To return to one aspect of the origninal post, neither signs nor symbols have meaning outside their context. A necklace that symbolizes your grandmother is just a necklace to anyone else that does not know its' history.

Signs and symbols are both vehicles of information transfer, thus language of a sort. They just accomplish the transfer differently.

Katyblu

A sign can also be a reason to do something... like God sent you a sign not to take the job or something....

Signs let you know something.
Symbols are something you already know as something else...

collide

You might be interested in researching semiology, the science of signs, coined by a Swiss linguist named Ferinand de Saussure, or semiotics, that explores how meaning is generated in everyday life -- particularly in the media. In semiotics, there is the signifier (an image or sign) and the signified (a concept). You can think of the signifier as a symbol of the signified (there can be many), or a basic idea or meaning that the signifier symbolizes.

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maxero

i would think symbols are representative figures of ideas or thoughts and signs are a way of transporting reason

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cough

TIO

A sign is the ratio of a right triangle's opposite side to its hypotenuse.

A symbol is a wide, flat metal percussion instrument, which makes a distinctive crashing sound when struck.

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Strewth