dragon2fire

red pill

i must know

gwangaii8

i would eat morpheus. take a bite right out of him...

asquint

No matter how painful, embarrassing or uncomfortable, the red pill and truth every time

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Hi-Tech Redneck

MacGnG

If nothing else i'd be if i didnt want THE Truth............... Justice, and The American Way.

Jonsgirl

Tough call. I'm normally for the red pill. In this senario, however, I'd go with the blue pill. If the case were reversed and I found that was something else out there (no matter how life shattering it may be) I'd live with it. But to find out that there is nothing? No, thanks. I'd rather live in my blissful illusion.

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Someday, someone will best me.
But it won't be today, and it won't be you.

Stiltzkin

"Ady also warned of the danger that 'the Nations [will] perish for lack of knowledge.' Avoidable human misery is more often caused not so much by stupidity as by ignorance, particularly our ignorance about ourselves." - The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark (Carl Sagan, 1996)

But... then again...

"... where ignorance is bliss, 'Tis folly to be wise" - Thomas Grey ("The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark" by Carl Sagan)

Or does it make more sense to think that...

"It is morally as bad not to care whether a thing is true or not, so long long as it makes you feel good, as it is not to care how you got your money as long as you have it." - Circle of the Seasons, the Journal of a Naturalist's Year (Edwin Way Teale, 1954)

But whichever the case...

"...it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Which gives us more leverage on our future? And if out naïve self-confidence is a little undermined in the process, is that altogether such a loss? Is there not cause to welcome it as a maturing and character-building experience?" - The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark (Carl Sagan, 1996)

I also read some British article many years ago, very long article that I really wish I could find. The gist of it-- as I recall-- was this:

Say you buy a new game. The game presents you with a screen that has two buttons, like so:


Of course, you want to win, right? So you click the "win" button and a congratulations screen pops up and praises you for how wonderful you are. I mean, that's what you wanted, right? To win? But it doesn't feel that great, does it? What's missing is the struggle. The gist of this article that I read was about struggle. It basically took a positive view on struggle and the purpose of its existence. By the way, if anyone has seen this article or knows where to find it, or has at least read something similar, I'd really like to know. I was too young when I first read that article to really care about keeping track of it. I was old enough to understand the merits of its content, just not smart enough to make a copy of it...

But what is pleasure without pain? What is sweet without sour? Do you really want to live a life of nothing but bliss? I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed it, but in the movie "The Fifth Element" this issue is briefly addressed. In the scene with Immanuel Zorg and the priest Cornelius, Zorg drops a glass onto the floor and several small robots come out and start cleaning it up. He mentions that chaos bring order, or something like that. Destruction incurs reconstruction. Struggle essentially provides purpose. What happens to all the cops when crime suddenly stops? What if all arson ceases and desists-- what will firemen do (and firewomen, too ) How about government and laws? What if everyone started behaving and being nice to eachother and started sharing? Hell, we wouldn't even need an economy anymore!

As such, I think I'd prefer the truth. I like struggle-- it brings purpose to my moogley existence. Red pill for me, please.

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The most important thing in this world is love.

hiredgun

well, this is a problem. at the point in the movie where Neo takes the pill, I definitely would have taken the red, my curiosity still winning over. But since we're discussing Cipher's dilemma, which takes place once he's already out of the matrix: I would regret the red pill with every bone in my body, and if there was a chance to go back and take the blue, I would.

h2g2Fan

What a deep question. Really. Thanks for bringing it up. Our minds are now expanded because of it.

CSflim

what's up with you? Are you being sarcastic or something?

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cowlick

The most humorous interview of Bill Gates I have read posed this same question. Bill's reply was something like, "The red pill of course. Taking the blue pill would be boring".

I agree with Bill.

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"It's a long story," says I, and let him up.

mjollnir

Red. Gimmie the truth no matter what it is. I do not believe in lies. you dont want to hear what I really think, don't ask.

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Yes I am a Pirate 200 years too late,
Cannons don't thunder
theres nuthin to plunder
I'm an over 30 victim of fate...

skinbag

I'd take the red pill, trusting that in time one can always accept the truth, no matter how bad it seems at first.

FlorentinoAriza

very true trudes1131

truth , all the way for me to.

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--- this space for rent --- pm me

Regziever

As a selfproclaimed Atheist I just have to say that truth is by far the most important thing. But I really must point out an error in your reasoning.
Religious belif is not a basic fundament needed to be happy and content.
As well as moral is independent of religion/faith so is happiness. I'm verry happy with the world and how it is as well as I am verry happy with the fact that when it's over it's over.

Life is what you make of it! It's that simple!

__________________
Life is shit,
Death is even worse,
So what's the point of killing yourself?
/Ignatius Camryn Paladine

Beltruckus

Why Does it have to be that God doesn't exist why can't it be the Other way around? Pure logical person, god comes down and shows himself to you, Which pill do YOU take.

__________________
The most important things are the hardest things to say. They are the things you get ashamed of because words diminish your feelings. Words shrink things that seem timeless when they are in your head to no more than living size when they are brought out. -Stephen King

CSflim

I agree with you. I am also an Atheist, and perfectly content. The point was that you were partaking in a roleplay of sorts. A hardcore religious worshiper may not be able to see the possibility of happiness/contentment outside of a religious belief.

Don't believe me?
Check out the a different question for christians thread.

From that thread:

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CSflim

This question was brought up before, but I didn't respond. Anyway, in such a situation, I don't see the dillemma.

Promises of eternal life, no death, no pain...for ever!?
Promises that all of these evil motherfuckers are going to burn for ever?

I would gladly accept the truth in that case!

there is no real dillema there!

Red pill of truth and happiness
or
Blue pill of ignorance and unhappiness

Seems a fairly clear cut decision there!

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nostalgic1

red pill.. i would HAVE to take the red pill.. because knowing the truth is much more important than just being content with a lie..

__________________
I dare you to forget the marks you left across my neck from those nights when we were both found at our best. Now I could make this obvious, and you..you could deny me all in one breath. You could shrug me off your shoulders. Just forget me.. it's that simple.

Regziever

Ahh. yes I see. but by the way you stated the question I got the impression that you said that faith is a requirement for happiness.
My bad. sorry.

__________________
Life is shit,
Death is even worse,
So what's the point of killing yourself?
/Ignatius Camryn Paladine

Beltruckus

How can you be happy knowing that nothing you do means anything at all, BTW i'm not a religious zealot, i don't go to church or anything i've stated before that Organized religion is a joke. But i do believe in God, Souls, all that stuff

edit: Good lord that quote you linked of mine sure is bleak. Now that I think about it i'm sure i would eventually pick myself up but it would be VERY hard, I am sure i would still continue living life as a good person, i live the way i do because thats who i want to be, not because God told me to.

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The most important things are the hardest things to say. They are the things you get ashamed of because words diminish your feelings. Words shrink things that seem timeless when they are in your head to no more than living size when they are brought out. -Stephen King

prosequence

I want to know what pharmacy to get these bottles of pills at, do they side effects... "CAUTION- contents may leave you miserable and shattered. May also cause some anal leakage, take daily."

Can I just eat the cotton batton on top ? No ? oh, then I would take the red pill. Then kill all the bad drivers...... hey, why not, it's not like I would go to hell !

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And now here I stand because of you, Mister Anderson, because of you I'm no longer an agent of the system, because of you I've changed...

Mr. Spacemonkey

I'd have to go with the truth and take the red pill.

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"I hope that when the world comes to an end, I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to." -- Donnie Darko

Regziever

Well my happiness comes from the fact that I know that I am the one soley responsible for my actions. I cannot blame my thoughts and actions on any god or fairy.
As I see it life is meaningless and pointless, that I don't see as a bad thing because that means we are free to choose our own destiny, there is noone else that have a say in it. We are free to decide for ourselves.
Freedom is one of the most exhilirating and joyfull feelings I know, religion is in my eyes a mental prison where you are locked up by a way of thinking that simply is not valid in todays modern society where we know for a fact that many of the religious rules are simply wrong.
Happiness steems form the fact that I am free to do what I want with my life, no god or pixie has my whole life written down somewhere before I have lived it yet. A life without freedom is pointless no matter how many gods and santas that have a purpose with my life.
What point is there of living a life that is alredy set from the day you're born to the day you die? A life you have absolulty no influence on. That is among the worst horrors I can think of.

__________________
Life is shit,
Death is even worse,
So what's the point of killing yourself?
/Ignatius Camryn Paladine

h2g2Fan

Could you be any more perceptive?

ObieX

Red pill. Chances are i would be able to make a much happier life for myself with out any inhibition than i would have always fearing eternal damnation, or the unknown after death.

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We Must Dissent.

CSflim

I don't see what your problem is. It's a legitimate question to ask.

If you don't like the question, don't respond. There are plenty of other threads, hopefully there you can find something that intrests you.

I guess quoting Douglas Adams is oh so much more profound and insightful of you.

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Beltruckus

Maybe you didn't read my post correctly I don't belong to any religion I think they are oppresive. And you only read the top part not the bottom part, btw whats the point of choosing your own "Destiny" if when you die it didn't make a difference what you did? Why can't you still have freedom. I used to belong to one of the most oppressive churches ever Latter day saints or Mormons, NO WHERE have they said your life is pre destined, and from what i understand from other religions NONE of them say you life is already chosen for you, you are free to do what you want, you are just held accountable for your actions in the afterlife, you still have freedom, I'm sorry but your arguments are weak.

__________________
The most important things are the hardest things to say. They are the things you get ashamed of because words diminish your feelings. Words shrink things that seem timeless when they are in your head to no more than living size when they are brought out. -Stephen King

TRPF

Red Pill.

It's my favorite color. Must be a sign...

Zargix

Truth. i need it

MacGnG

Happiness is nothing, if everything is a lie.

Stiltzkin

Vergevingsgezind.

What about a green pill? If there was a green pill of ambrosia I'd take that instead.

__________________
The most important thing in this world is love.

Regziever

I did read all of your message i don't see why you claim that i didn't.

I have never encounterd a religion where they do not claim that god has created the universe, past, present and future.
Never in my life. (This means Christianity, Islam, hinduism and most of their sapplings). All priests and imams I have met (an i have met and talked to may) say that god's will is omnicient, now, yesterday and in the future. God sees the future and know what is going to happend. (he can only know what is going to happend if he has already decided what is going to happend since he is supposed to be the all powerfull force of the universe, no?? nothing happends without he wanting it eh..) Only god knows what is going to happend. Fatalism in it's most insane form.

I'm sorry if the way i argument insult you, that isn't at all what i intended. I'm just verry agressive when i discuss things.

__________________
Life is shit,
Death is even worse,
So what's the point of killing yourself?
/Ignatius Camryn Paladine

Regziever

Ohh.. Why does it have to make a difference?? As long as i am happy, my family is happy and my friends are happy and i'm not hurting anyone I am fully content. Why does everything have to do with changing the world or putting your mark or whatever?? it's just plain ridiculous.
We live now and only now so let's make the best of it!

__________________
Life is shit,
Death is even worse,
So what's the point of killing yourself?
/Ignatius Camryn Paladine

Beltruckus

I'm not saying changing the world, i'm thinking on a much smaller scale. But I don't see how god seeing in the future past and present still doesn't give you the freedom to do whatever you want? And by the way, according the Mormons we have freedom of choice to do whatever we want, just have to be accountable in the afterlife, The reason satan was cast down from heaven is because before anyone was born he wanted to force everyone to love god and worship him, no freedom of choice, and jeesus wanted people to be free to choose how they live their lives. I'm not LDS but I was till i was 17. They do believe in freedom of choice, but they take the living christlike WAY to seriously and they end up not giving you freedom of choice, thats why I left.

__________________
The most important things are the hardest things to say. They are the things you get ashamed of because words diminish your feelings. Words shrink things that seem timeless when they are in your head to no more than living size when they are brought out. -Stephen King

Nefir

I know that if I take the blue pill, I'd have no memory of doing so, and thus no regrets of forfeiting knowledge of truth.

I also know that if I take the red pill, I would keep all my memories, and the choice to forfeit bliss through ignorance.

I would rather know that I'm part of the solution, no matter how painful the job, than be part of the problem, and not know it. Red pill it is for me.

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You do not use a Macintosh, instead you use a Tandy
Kompressor break your glowstick, Kompressor eat your candy
Kompressor open jaws, Kompressor release ants
Kompressor watch you scream, Because Kompressor does not dance

gremlinx8

I'd chose the red pill and truth. Even if it makes me mad, unhappy, angry whatever I have to know the truth because I hate lies.

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Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted. -Lennon

Regziever

As i said in my other message. To see into the future, the future has to be already set, written in stone whatever otherwise we would have an infinite number of variable realities. God is supposed to be the creator so it is him that has created the future and thereby already decided what will happend.
Hehe.. This is an ongoing discussion within the major churches where i live, they are pretty much ready to slit eachothers throats by now..

Mormons I have yet not encounterd/looked in to, I know verry little about this shism of christianity other than it allows polygamy (but only men can have several wives or something like that??) and that it "goes by the letters" of their bible.
We do have mormons here but they refuse me to study their religion if I don't join their church.

And yesd it is the little things that makes me happy, the sun is shining today, school starts today and i had a lovley cup of tea this morning. If it matters or not is of no consequence to me because i feel good and i am happy, i have no need for it to mean anything other than that it makes me happy.

As a general rule i deal with the ideas of faith that is most commonly accepted. Otherwise i would argue with theists from every corner of the world untill the day i die and that is not the kind of life i want.
I admit i know verry little about the doctrines and teachings of the mormons and therefore i cannot debate it.

__________________
Life is shit,
Death is even worse,
So what's the point of killing yourself?
/Ignatius Camryn Paladine

dexlargo

Hmmm... Would you really? In 1861 John Stuart Mill described this as follows:

He was writing in this piece on the quality of pleasure, and ranked the pleasure of reasoning as higher than the base pleasures, and contends that most prefer to be rational, reasoning people with all of the misery that comes with it instead of being blissfully ignorant. I think he hit the nail right on the head.

virus

i agree- i'd take the red pill. i'd possibly regret it, but i'd have to take it.

Beltruckus

HAHAHA they got rid of Polygamy in the 1800's you REALLY dont know anything about them do you. And if they are refusing to let you study the church then they are not really mormons. Around here if you even mention you are interested they will have all sorts of thigns for you to look at, HAHAHAHA polygamy.

BTW it's good that you are happy, everyone should be happy living their lives, it's not like I go out and have a shrine dedicated to him, I just try to keep God in the back of my head, if I do something kind for someone it's not for god, it makes me feel good to do that.

__________________
The most important things are the hardest things to say. They are the things you get ashamed of because words diminish your feelings. Words shrink things that seem timeless when they are in your head to no more than living size when they are brought out. -Stephen King