girldetective

In another posting on another thread I touched upon the idea of people wanting problems. This may have been discussed here before, but if so I hope it would be alright to revisit it. Its an idea that has been discussed before by most people I would think, but interesting nonetheless.

I dont mean with this question any kind of callousness, nor a lack of empathy. I understand there are things beyond one's control, that not everyone has a median income or even an income at all, that sometimes there are limitations in one way or another, that people get into situations that just are beyond them and they have to work their way out.

Im talking more of the same old junk. The stuff that we all get into over and over again, that we read about all over. It could be personal, familial, work, global, universal. It could be that same crud that you recognize or dont recognize has been with you forever and keeps coming around. You think okay Ive got it, and then it sneaks back up on you again and you dont recognize it until later, but then you do. It was just dressed a little differently.

Do you think people want problems? Do you think that problems serve to satisfy a need? Im not talking creative problems which are intellectually stimulating, but what about social problems?

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As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata

Willravel

There are problems that I would want. Porsche or Ferrari? Blonde or brunette (or redhead, or black)? Cheesecake with or without raspberries?

Wanting problems probably isn't the issue. Understanding that problems are inevitable and being prepared would be the issue, at least in my mind. There's nothing wrong with "life giving you lemons" because that's simply circumstance meeting probability. It's perfectly normal.

n0nsensical

I'm not sure if we want problems, but we are definitely responsible for a lot of them, while we pretend we aren't.

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"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." --Abraham Lincoln

little_tippler

I know what you mean...I'm bad at avoiding them. Mainly because the problems I have stem from my trusting other people too much. I don't know, I can't help but believe in entering into a relationship with others (friends, business, romantic) with an open mind...I need to learn to protect myself more (inwardly, maybe not outwardly - you've got to live, despite this).

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

roachboy

interesting. i think this is answered with a great big "it depends on the problems you are talking about"---no doubt we all organize our own versions of the world and project aspects of ourselves into that organization. this projections can be conscious and unconscious at once (they usually are it seems) and so are probably rooted in a variety of ways in our own sense of ourselves, our sense of how we are in the world, of the world, etc.

this is clearest to me in political questions--what you isolate as problematic, how you parse it, what you imagine the response to be--all potentially shot through with projections. for example, i have done alot of work on and still am generally sympathetic with revolutionary politics--but if you look at or play that game, it's self-evident that there is a circuit which links your sense(s) of alienation (in the existientialist sense, not the marxist one) to the choices you make analytically and the conclusion that you draw that problems x y or z cannot be addressed coherently within the existing order and so constitute a basic challenge to that order. it could be that you desire the existing order to burn for the reasons you know about, and that you desire it because you imagine at some level another world is possible, one in which you might not find yourself alienated in the same ways. so you have to engage in recursive operations--why do i think this? what are the premises and why are they compelling--more or less continually.

i don't see this as a bad thing--one of the advantages of left political action in a fragmented context (and in general, but it's clearest in a space of fragmentation) is that while the existing order argues its legitimacy through spatial arrangements (for example) and through explicit claims, in opposition everything about your sense of legitimacy is explicit because everything is argument. so the operations of checking (to the extent that you can do it) are implicit in any political viewpoint--maybe on the surface, maybe taken care of for you by the ideological production machinery, maybe by its absence).

more generally, though, two things:

1. the world is not anything, really, absent your projections as to order. your projections as to order are socially circumscribed and are matters of investment. so you project your world, but not in an unbounded fashion. being functional is about projecting orders in socially legitimate ways. there is no immanent order of things.

2. no-one is better at trapping you than you are.
given that. it's better to know.

this is really compressed and i wonder if it reads as more psychologically oriented than it should...bloody messageboards.

i think i like the problem of not being able to make the arguments i want to make in the way i want to make them in this format.
i keep doing it.
it's always like that everywhere.

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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

abaya

1) People see what they want to see (kind of what roachboy was just saying), and

2) Some people crave drama in order to feel something, anything... instead of being responsible for themselves and having an actual, fulfilling life that does not depend on others for emotional highs and lows.

It's the drama-cravers who see what they want to see (combination of 1 and 2) that alarm me the most, and basically I try to steer as far clear of them as possible. Dangerous personalities that I do not want to get caught up with unless absolutely necessary.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

fresnelly

If you distrust the world too much, you need problems to confirm your worldview and give it order.

A paradox, I know.

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Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

Manuel Hong

in a word, yes.
people are in LOVE with their problems.
The Talking Heads said it best.

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Believe nothing, even if I tell it to you, unless it meets with your own good common sense and experience. - Siddhartha Gautama (The Buddha)

ASU2003

I don't want problems for myself.

But if other people make the choices to use lots of gas, buy everything as cheap as possible from big box stores, elect ineffective leaders because of what church they go to or what letter is beside their name, get massive cars, buy homes to try and make a buck, buying homes they can't afford (but got interest-only loans) to show off, not caring about international news (but know who won Survivor or American Idol), assume that Toyota/Honda make the best cars (I'm not saying that they don't, but lots of people passionately choose one brand for no good reason), don't take care of their body by smoking or eating too much, or do a bunch of other stuff that isn't in the best interest of society...I don't care if they feel the pain of the problems working themselves out.

It might be harsh, but it's true.

Cynthetiq

I'd say that we all want our own variations of problems.

I'm not trying to point fingers here but we post here to resolve some of our problems. ASU posts about other people's problems affecting him, but doesn't mention the ones he's posted here in many different iterations (I don't mean to pick on you, just happen to be a good example of a long time poster posting similar and same problems.) As do we all. We all look to see that other people have the problems, no, I don't have problems other people do.

I use the 10 Rules of Being Human and try to remember as rb and abaya pointed out.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Shauk

I want girl problems, cuz then at least I'd have a girlfriend, HAH

Master_Shake

It's kind of instinctual to always focus on problems, regardless of how big or small they actually are. One person's problem of not having enough food to eat can be just as all-consuming as another person's problem of not knowing which girl to ask to the prom.

It's all relative.

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You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here.

Willravel

I think it was MA$E that said, "It's like the more money we come across The more problems we see." Those words are as true today as they were in his day.

Baraka_Guru

A man once came to see the Buddha to get help with his problems. After the man had told the Buddha one of his problems and asked for help, the Buddha replied: "I cannot help you get rid of that problem."

The man was surprised that the Buddha could not help him in this regard, but he told the Buddha about another problem; he thought to himself that the Buddha should at least be able to help him with that problem. But the Buddha told him "I cannot help you with that problem either."

The man started to get impatient. He said: "How can it be that you are the perfectly Enlightened Buddha, when you can’t even help people get rid of their problems?" The Buddha answered: "You will always have 83 problems in your life. Sometimes a problem will go, but then another problem will come. I cannot help you with that."

The baffled man asked the Buddha: "But, what can you help me with, then?" The Buddha replied: "I can help you get rid of your 84th problem." The man asked: "But what is my 84th problem?" The Buddha replied: "That you want to get rid of your 83 problems."

* * * * *

I don't think we necessarily want problems, but many of us are comfortable with the idea of their perpetual existence. The human mind is complex and curious. We like to solve problems on the conceptual level. We also likes to try to apply solutions. Others like to cause problems. Others merely like to complain about them. Our happiness hinges on our ability to handle them, no matter their source. I don't think there is such a thing as being problem-free.

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Seer666

I think that this county voted in bush TWICE shows that yes, we do want them.

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Bad spellers of the world untie!!!

I am the one you warned me of

I seem to have misplaced the bullet with your name on it, but I have a whole box addressed to occupant.