coberst

Theory of love

Occasionally when reading I run across a phrase or sentence or paragraph, which really rings a bell for me. The bell may be recognition of the compatibility of the point to my own conclusions or perhaps the point caused an epiphany, or other reasons. When I encounter such a point I often copy it and store it in a file for later analysis. One such point is as follows: “Platonic idea that the giving and receiving of knowledge, the active formation of another’s character, or the more passive growth under another’s guidance, is the truest and strongest foundation of love”.

My analysis of this sentence led me down a long trail over an extended period of time to an understanding of the meaning of the statement and to an agreement with the meaning of that statement.

When studying philosophy I had read some of Plato’s work and had a slight remembrance of one of his Dialogues in which he dealt with the subject of love. After some study of the particular Dialogue in question and some further study of Plato’s general philosophy I realized what was meant by the point made in the sentence I had saved.

Plato wrote, “An unexamined life is not worth living”. I find this a bit hyperbolic but nevertheless agree with the general point. Plato also argued that the giving and receiving of knowledge, the active formation of another’s character, or the more passive growth under another’s guidance, is the truest and strongest foundation of love. Plato judged that the basis of love is centered upon the mutual struggle for truth.

I would not attempt to explain why Plato’s Idealistic philosophy leads to this conclusion but I think one can find justification for this point of view by considering the nature of the parent to progeny relationship. Considering the nature of evolution one might easily discover that the origin of love could be observed in the obvious relationship of present day mammals. The educational relationship between the animal mother and their progeny are evident to the most casual observer.

I often watch the Discovery Channel on TV. As you probably know this channel often has a great documentary on animal life. Their audio/visual presentations give the viewer wonderful insights into the life of animals. Often the animals in question are large mammals such as lions, gorillas, monkeys, etc. I find verification of Plato’s theory every time I see the relationship between mother and progeny in these documentaries.

Evolutionary Psychology is based on the theory that all human psychological traits, such as love, must be traceable to our evolutionary ancestors. The source of love in humans is evolved from the mother infant relationship in early mammals (perhaps).

I find this theory of love makes sense. Do you agree?

Plan9

God damnit, that f'in Haddaway song is stuck in my head again.

*bobs head back and forth repeatedly*

I concur with the momma's baby-drama suggestion. I think that love is merely the social extension of biological need. Whether it's for the two week human mating cycle infatuation or long term ventures like family, it's a concept designed help us form bonds and survive by releasing all those feel-good reward chemicals. As a species, we're little junkies... we do what feels good and it turns out that love feels real good.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Hain

Crompsin... I hate you. I haven't thought of that song (or that movie) for years... but no! :kidding:

While I would like to believe that love is something special and significant (EDIT: meaning supernatural, mystical, of God), I find nothing wrong with accepting that it is nothing more than an evolutionary development which allowed groups of people to survive.

UPDATE: "What is love? What if that isn't a question at all... maybe it's a statement! Then what would that mean? How does one love 'what?' Can an undefined subject even be loved? Maybe I am reading into this wrong, but what if I'm supposed to love the unknown, the mysterious." - inspired by Penny Arcade

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Ustwo

Its evolved behavior but why would that make it not special or significant? Who you love and falls in love with you is both special and significant to you, so what does it matter if it serves a biological survival need or not? I know that evolution is why I have sex with my wife, have had two kids with her, and feel the way I do about her, but that doesn't make me value less her reaction to the xmas present I've got lined up for her.

By default everything about us is do to evolution.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Hain

"Special and Significant"- I should have said mystical and supernatural as that was what I meant. "God is love," that stuff.

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Plan9

*has a Henry Rollins seizure*

Wooo! Part animal, part machine.

...

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

roachboy

after spending a couple minutes swatting away haddaway and that gnat-like song....

as ridiculous theories of love go, plato's donut story is kinda sweet, dont you think? it makes nostalgia for some lost unity into the central motor of our lives. what could be better than facing backward?

ovid thought that love was basically a variant of hunting.

evolutionary biology comes up with the startling conclusion that there may--just may---be some relation between love, sex and species reproduction.
it's these moments of logical daring that take my breath away....

proust seemed to imagine that love was an aspect of fetishism, and that fetishism was a reaction to the fact that we age and that most of our lives trail away as we do. so we want to hold onto something. so we reduce the loved one to an object and we hold on.
but it doesn't work.
but it works.
but it doesn't.
but it does.

(this cliff notes version of "in search of lost time" brought to you as a public service from roachboy industries.
roachboy---your plot summary source for 250 years.
roachboy--buy roachboy and you buy america.)

ok so haddaway is a plot summary of proust.
and there's that song again.
you hear it too, dont you?
it's like a gnat.
it'll go away if you swat at it.
go ahead.
swat at it.


anyway. i dont know what love is. it's probably all the above and whatever else you imagine it to be.
but it's kinda nice. whatever it is.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

ring

Agapazomenoi.

Plan9

Careful analysis of this mammoth musical monument to philosophical reasoning has revealed the true nature of man's motivation to love and be loved.

"Don't hurt me no more," refers to the potency of the love, in that removing said love causes immense pain, enough to warrant a request not to do it.

"What can I say? It's up to you," shows the innate weakness of mankind's desire for the acceptance of another's affection. We need other people.

"I want no other, no other lover," demonstrates the strange biological contradiction that is mankind's desire for and dedication to monogamy in a turbulent world.

Indeed... what IS love?

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Hain

"Emily tells me that she loves me but I don't know what that means! I think it means that she prefers the pain we inflict on each other to the solitary pain we would otherwise inflict upon ourselves." - William Hurt (before he became type-casted for being himself) as Edward Jessup in Altered States.

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Willravel

Love is to life what the main course is to a meal. It's what you're there for. The other things that accompany it can support it or distract from it, but at the end of the meal, you reflect back on the steak, not the potatoes. Some people get a bad steak and swear off it, or never have the courage to order a main course and choose to get a glass of water with a side salad, but they're not getting the good stuff.

Plan9

Whoa... did you just equate the source of my eternal torment to a mediocre cut of beef at a steakhouse?

Man, that tastes good.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

Compassion and love are not mere luxuries.
As the source both of inner and external peace,
they are fundamental to the continued survival of our species.
-His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama


Discussions of love are often made complex. We can easily lose sight of what love is in essence: Wanting others to be happy.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Willravel

You got gristle, man. It happens to everyone.

coberst

I suspect that the instinctive feeling caused by love is displayed in our self love that is also our survival instinct. We call it the survival instinct but it is probably the love instinct as focused upon the self.

Without the guidance of the parent the young cannot survive. As I watch these shows of animals in the wild on the Discovery Channel it seems so clear to me that this is the origin of the instinct we call love.

Truth for a lion cub is what is the correct manner to deal with a snake, or an elephant, or etc. All of which the cub learns from the mother.

Love is an instinct without which mammals would not have survived.

We have all kinds of ways to use the word love. If we remove all the contingencies we will find that in all cases the essence of love is an emotion, i.e. an instinct.

I love chocolate, I love mom, and I love April in Paris. Love is an instinct and love is an abstract idea. Remove all the contingencies and you are left with the emotion we call love. That feeling resulting from the emotion is really what we are speaking of. We attach that feeling to many things. Just as we attach fear to many things and these emotions help the species to survive.

We assign the same word to many things. I suspect that in many cases we are assigning the improper word. When I say I love cookies I suspect we are using the wrong word. However there is a feeling that results from emotion, which is an instinct, and that feeling like the feeling of fear can save or life. Without such an instinct the species could never have survived.

Plan9

Pfft, I got a Slim Jim! OOOO YEAH!

...

Love is that illogical factor that motivates us to do insane things.

It is the self-named reason for being nuts. "Why did you..?" "I'm in love!"

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

There is a fine line between love and obsession.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Plan9

Yes, yes. I feel that obsession is a detrimental single-minded focus whereas love is an integrated part of the life system that benefits all aspects.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Ustwo

You know you are getting back in the wagon sooner or later, just don't pick a psycho one and you will be fine.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Plan9

I'd rather marry a meatloaf.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Ustwo

Marry someone who knows how to cook steak, I did, all is medium rare.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Baraka_Guru

Steak is one of the easiest things out there to cook. One should marry someone who knows how to make homemade chocolate Turtles.

Now that is a love that is sweetest.

But seriously, based on a theory of love, one who knows what you enjoy and can and will provide it to you is expressing love. When Baraka_Gurl brings home a bottle of Tiger Malt, she isn't doing so as though it were a chore. It is an occasional treat for me (she doesn't like them) that she offers without my asking. Ever.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Ourcrazymodern?

I'm pretty sure my dog loves me, confident that my sons do, and absolutely certain that the universe does, or I couldn't be here.

Maybe I use the term too loosely, but I use it often enough to feel that it has truth in it. No disrespect intended to religionists or their opposites, but if you know (good)God you can feel no hate, and I love Crompsin.

Does it make a lot of sense to base your thoughtforms more on those of men centuries dead than on your feelings? Sure, if you'd rather sound learned than real.

Of course, you have to love yourself first.

This is easy.

"Okay, I love you, bye-bye."

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

girldetective

The theory of love? Do you have forever?

freelod

believe in each other

MirrorsrorriM

Love is the feeling you are not alone, but more exactly, it's the feeling of relief, knowing you are in communication, with another set of reliable eyes, ears, that can warn you of danger, communicate sources of food, etc.

there are many, many types of 'good feelings' we use the generalized word 'love' to decribe, I 'love' chicken, I 'love' watermelon, etc. It's the lack of brain function to recognize that it IS a generalization that gives rise to a sense of confusion about the matter, and this is why people don't love you.

jewels

So what I'm "hearing" you say is that using a statement such as "I love chicken" means I'm generalizing and confused and people won't love me? I don't get it.

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We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain