tecoyah

Shit Happens- The general understanding that life tends to create an adversity by its very nature. This statement seems to imply an acceptance of the everyday challenges, and an attitude of intellectual strength overcoming reality.

Life is hard, then you die- Here we deal with adversity, the minds ability to categorize the realities of everyday existance into subsections, priorities of action, and mortality in the context of a larger understanding of its importance. We also attempt to relinquish the fear our own deaths can create when taken into the realm of life lessons.

Lifes' a bitch, then you marry one- Though similar in expression to the previous phrase, this carries meaning for human interaction, social growth, and sexual differences. The obvious male dominated connotations likely are made in jest, yet express an underlying tug of war between the sexes. Human sexual coupling is complicated by emotional love, which often makes for misunderstanding and frustration in the process. Added to this is the social bond of marriage, which has multiple meanings in an emotional, as well as spiritual context.

If anyone has further understanding of our modern, and expediated form of expressing Philosophy.....please place it here for all to enjoy.

Jetée

Wow, it is as if you paraphrased Thomas Hobbes to ring to the ears of people in today's society.

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

Baraka_Guru

I always liked this one, mainly because it creeps me out a bit.

governmentality

A concept instigated by Michel Foucault (G. Burchell, C. Gordon, and P. Miller, 1991) to encompass the mentalities, rationalities, and techniques used by governments, within a defined territory, actively to create the subjects (the governed), and the social, economic, and political structures, in and through which their policy can best be implemented. In other words, the way governments try to produce the citizen best suited to fulfil those governments' policies. The current teaching of ‘citizenship’ in UK schools is a good example.

"governmentality." A Dictionary of Geography. Oxford University Press, 1992, 1997, 2004. Answers.com 15 Jul. 2007. http://www.answers.com/topic/governmentality

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Jetée

Biopower
I, also, was enthralled by this notion set forth by Foucault. I am really eager to see the path that this thread takes from here.

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

roachboy

the social-historical:

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Baraka_Guru

roachboy, I think I just lost myself. Thanks. There goes over thirty years of what I thought was "being."

I have much reading to do. I must go now.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

roachboy

bg: that's a very nice post. thanks.
check out castoriadis' "the imaginary institution of society"...

i worked with cc for quite a while in the 90s and still do extensive research/other stuff with his writing, so pm me if you want more infotainment.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

snowy

I like this bit, from Kierkegaard:

How did I get into the world? Why was I not asked about it and why was I not informed of the rules and regulations but just thrust into the ranks as if I had been bought by a peddling shanghaier of human beings? How did I get involved in this big enterprise called actuality? Why should I be involved? Isn't it a matter of choice? And if I am compelled to be involved, where is the manager—I have something to say about this. Is there no manager? To whom shall I make my complaint?

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Nimetic

Gee. That puts a shape and a form to an important concept. It's a good definition.

Baraka_Guru

The Toronto Public Library only carries his World in Fragments and Crossroads in the Labyrinth.

I'm intrigued but I can't justify spending $30+ to buy The Imaginary Institution of Society (as meaty a volume as it is). I'm on a really tight budget. What are these other books of his?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

jorgelito

Try a university library.

Baraka_Guru

What? Library? Books!? Yeah, should have thought of that, except the only university library I'm familiar with is at York University, which is out in the middle of nowhere as far as public transportation is concerned. Maybe I'll go one day in the next while.


A new one: Ideological State Apparatuses (Louis Althusser)
"What the bourgeoisie has installed as its number-one, i.e. as its dominant ideological State apparatus, is the educational apparatus, which has in fact replaced in its functions the previously dominant ideological State apparatus, the Church."

The apparatuses also include law, politics, trade unions, media and the family. Basically, we are all made subjects of the state through these mechanisms. These apparatuses are in place as a counterbalance to the repressive state apparatuses, which include the police and the military.

What, you thought you were "free"?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

jorgelito

Baraka, did you only check one branch of the Toronto Public Library or the entire system?

Sometimes you can request books or they can make an inter-library loan and procure the title you want from another library system.

What other universities are near you?

Baraka_Guru

jorgelito, I used the TPL's online search, which checks their entire system. They do have a lot of stuff, even though some of the more obscure or archaic items are only available at the Reference Library and you can't sign them out.

I attended York University and I was among the 1% who actually uses the library for research purposes that involve books. Although I don't know of any other university libraries to compare to, the York library seemed to have a lot of stuff. I was amazed at things such as a twelve volume set of the collected letters and journals of Ben Jonson and things like that. It's like four or five floors, which I thought was impressive, and realize that York has separate exclusive libraries for subjects such as law, business, science, and social studies.

I imagine the libraries at the University of Toronto are even more impressive. They would also be much closer and accessible too, especially considering I work downtown during the week. Technically, they would be on my way. Maybe I should consider getting one of those "community" memberships to the main library or something.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

roachboy

mister guru:
crossroads in the labyrinth is an excellent book and was my gateway drug. the essays on psychoanalysis are good intros to the 4th group mode of doing it; the philosophy and the sciences piece is important. but from this one, the text from marx to aristotle and aristotle to ourselves is most interesting, i think. if my experience is any guide, you'll find stuff for yourself going through them regardless. iis is a very complex piece, but it is worth the effort--i am amazed that the paper edition is now $35 a pop to get hold of new. are there used copies floating about?

in between things so no time...more anon.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Baraka_Guru

The Toronto Public Library has just the copy of Crossroads in the Labyrinth at the Reference Library, which means it cannot be signed out.

The York University Library, on the other hand, has two copies of The Imaginary Institution of Society, though they are both currently checked out; one is due at the end of August, the other at the beginning of September. Go figure. I'm not sure how many holds are on it, so I have no idea how long it would take to get it. But I'm sure it's worth the wait. The University of Toronto has a few copies floating around at various locations as well.

roachboy:
What is it about Castoriadis that intrigues you so much? I'm compelled to read him based on that one excerpt and, of course, your enthusiasm, but perhaps I should get some context before delving into it. What is his lasting significance today? Why should one read him? Is Crossroads a better starting point than IIS?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

ARTelevision

I have always preferred a philosophical position that is not defined by verbal construction.

Mine is like that.

*

Words are something else entirely - nothing philosophical there.

I do have a philosophical interest in words-as-words.
But I do not mistake the map for the territory.

__________________
create evolution

Baraka_Guru

Are you referring to the differences between the rhetoric of speech and text?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

ARTelevision

Not exactly.

I'm referring to the lack of any adequate correspondence between words and experience.

As for words-as-words, I find this (to me) utterly inadequate correspondence to be quite fascinating in itself.

Thanks for your words,
Art

__________________
create evolution

aberkok

Any!? Come on. Are you saying our primary mode of communication counts for nothing? I must be misunderstanding.

__________________
!check out my new blog! http://arkanamusic.wordpress.com

Warden Gentiles: "It? Perfectly innocent. But I can see how, if our roles were reversed, I might have you beaten with a pillowcase full of batteries."

Baraka_Guru

Yeah, your idea does seem a little suspect. Have you considered Ferdinand de Saussure's "the sign, the signifier, and the signified" for starters?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

ARTelevision

aberkok,
yes that's how it looks to me.

__________________
create evolution

ngdawg

It counts for nothing because we can manipulate them to be anything depending on who the're aimed at, how they're used, etc.. If we don't know who is truly behind the words, it's our own 'take' on them that makes them what they become and we have to rely on trust and intuition.
Touch, to me, is the primary communicator, followed by what I see in one's face when they look back at me. It's these things, when combined with words, that makes true communication.

Back to the OP: "shit happens"....if you let it. "life happens"....if you will it.
I try to follow something told to me a long time ago: "Worry is a needless action". In other words, if you can't do a thing about it, let it go.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

aberkok

It's the absolute dismissal I question. Without any reliance on any words then why even bother responding to my post? Why bother saying anything!? ART responded to me, letting me know he finds no meaning in words, so according to that, his post (written in words) counts for nothing and without meeting him I'll have no idea what his position is? Zero?

__________________
!check out my new blog! http://arkanamusic.wordpress.com

Warden Gentiles: "It? Perfectly innocent. But I can see how, if our roles were reversed, I might have you beaten with a pillowcase full of batteries."

roachboy

ok so this is directed double-wise.
i agree with art and i dont agree with art.
but i figure if i am going to explain why, i might as well just try it and so i tried it the way i know how to try such things and it's maybe a little harder than other posts. sorry about that.

that we make reference and so any aspect of that process could be otherwise doesn't mean it is. except maybe metaphysically---you know, in general---as if there was some domain of forms that showed what everything is "really like" so you dont have to deal with all the bent-up stuff you find down here amongst us people--so if there was such a level where real meanings lived, maybe with reference to there and how things worked there you could say that because we make reference and so any aspect of the process could be otherwise therefore every aspect of the process is in fact otherwise.

so there is no communication.
well, there is, but we dont mean what we say.
i think i saw something about this in a hal hartley film.
but then there are those stupid paradox things, like "i do not mean what i say."
and besides, if that were true metaphysically, it still be a problem because by its nature, we wouldnt understand anything about what anything meant there.

meaning is a funny category. there's usage and so there's communication.

one problem shows up then in what you imagine the other relation to entail, the one between a signifier and signified (which is ok) but the signified isnt exactly the experience of the signified and the experience can't be accounted for in terms of the signified or the signifier exactly. so sure. the world is not the word "world." i would think we already know that.

so there's also the experience of the signified itself, whatever that is, the result of a process of bringing phenomena into relation. if you figure that discreteness is a kind of grouping, then we're well into a process by the time that are discrete things that words can be fit to. but its a very odd kind of process, if only for its speed and complexity.

anyway, so there's the experience of some response or another being evoked through the fashioning of a signified and that fashioning is a process and that is a social process and you can't say anything really about this process using signifiers because it's always other than they are, it's always the process of bringing into relation and not what is brought into relation---so the process is bigger logically and would work on a different order.
if you imagine that syntax shapes not only relations between particles but also time and relations to time and experiences of time in a way yes, then it would follow that your ability to function linguistically relies on aspects of your experience that cannot be expressed linguistically but which are nonetheless the most ordinary thing in the world and that your experience of time may be the only one or range that you know about, but it isnt the only temporal register we work in. that seems very strange to think about. anyway, its ordinary because we're engaged in these processes all the time. sometimes i wonder if we are biological systems that live in the natural habitat of language because that would maybe explain something about the circuitry back there, on the other side, behind around and through this 2space, this sequence of letters and words and nothing else. the other alternative is to think about language as a social institution and about how constraints are fashioned, how the work, how they might be bundled and that's why i like castoriadis, because he gives a place to start and without a place to start even if this post makes little sense or has gaps in it because it is what it is, you can know pretty surely that without a starting point, it'd make even less sense.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

ngdawg

huh???
I kinda got that but not....seems you went a really long way to say 'words and actions together do more than mere words as they are used'

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

ARTelevision

roachboy,

I like how you say things.

Thanks,
Art

__________________
create evolution

roachboy

heh.

i tried to do a litle trick above--the limits of linguistic staging are apparent in ordinary usage of language itself. you dont need to think about the relation of words to what lay beyond them to get to it. the trick relied on a simple move: separating logical orders. where you land with it is with a problem of thinking (and---more complex still---another of trying to bend language around in order to indicate) process.

the result was simple enough: of course language doesnt communicate experience. but it is equally obvious that there is communication, and that there are significant aspects of experience beyond language that are at least indicated via language--and that (in another direction) a very significant stratum of experience IS language, IS the world staged/mediated by it.

so as a sidebar: no ng, you did not understand what i was saying, but you did follow it in general, so i assume the problem was the writing. you have a choice when you play this sort of game: either you assume referencepoints and technical terminology so you can do things quickly, or you work through proofs that start with first principles and build up. if i went that route, thing'd be clear if you could remember stage to stage what was happening (and if i could) but i'd still be writing the post.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

ngdawg

I accept I didn't understand-it happens more times than I care to count....
Sort of brings me back to my other post-I need interaction-words blur over and the more words there are, the blurrier they become until the brain says "huh???". Ironically, I can write rather well and have been published, but perhaps that's because I can articulate clearly when it's my own thought process.
Oh well....shit happens....

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Jetée

I'd be lucky to count off more than ten words at a time, my brain is so addled.

Though I am somewhat interested in learning what you were published for; a professor friend of mine has been trying for years now and I can't help but think he is just bringing himself down by not achieving his goal.

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

ARTelevision

May I interject a comment regarding use of the word "modern"?

Essentially the "modern" period ended variously for architecture, the fine arts, etc. between 1949 and 1960, yet folks still refer to what is current as "modern."

For the various branches of human endeavor that have occurred since the modern period is generally agreed to have ended, use of the term "postmodern" is probably better.

Perhaps "contemporary" would be the best word to use in this context, as it is never outmoded.

Carry on...please.

__________________
create evolution

ngdawg

Don't think 'book' by any means....
I had an article in a national quarterly 3 years ago about a weekend a group of us spent revisiting the site of Woodstock."It was deja-vu all over again".... Also had a humorous short piece selected for a column in what was then the Daily News Sunday Magazine-that was a longer time ago. Neither was paid for, just that cool little byline under the titles.
I'm working now on a couple of essays about two-wheeling the backroads of NJ, but haven't sent them out yet.
Does your professor submit essays or is he trying to get a book published? Sometimes the best way to get a book going is get your own publisher/printer and just go for it, rather than submit to an editor and go through channels. I know someone who did just that and her book became very successful-she hawked it herself at venues that it would do well in.
Comes down to whether shit happens or life happens-if he's willing to work on the success, he will have it.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.