Interesting Revelation about Religion brought on by "Borat" - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

amire · 11-22-2006, 03:29 PM

NOTE: If you have not seen the new movie Borat and don't wish for part of it to be spoiled, please don't read past this note.

I recently went to watch Borat, and I found it to be very funny. But the movie was also enlightening, sometimes on purpose, and sometimes accidentally.

<SPOILER> One scene that really opened my eyes to how modern religion works was the scene where Borat eats dinner with a group of influential Southerners. If you'll recall, Borat invites a prostitute over to their house as a guest to eat with him. The most interesting thing about the encounter is that, as SOON as the prostitute arrives, the minister that was also eating with the group excuses himself from the table in disgust and leaves. The group then calls the cops.

It occurred to me that this is COMPLETELY the opposite of how Christ would have handled the situation. Recall that he hung out with tax collectors, lepers, and prostitutes! He loved them and tried to teach them how to be happier. He did not condemn them.

Does anyone else agree that this minister's actions were completely contrary to what Christ would have done? I wonder what else modern religious leaders are doing that Christ would do differently.

Now, I know that the movie probably isn't a great reflection on modern religion. I'm sure there are some pastors out there that would have sat with the prostitute. And I also recognize that Borat's entire purpose was to get people angry. But it doesn't excuse the actions of a minister who supposedly knows how Christ acted.

I was interested in seeing what everyone else thought.

Thanks!

</SPOILER>

Psycho Dad · 11-22-2006, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amire

It occurred to me that this is COMPLETELY the opposite of how Christ would have handled the situation. Recall that he hung out with tax collectors, lepers, and prostitutes! He loved them and tried to teach them how to be happier. He did not condemn them.

I have someone who is currently not speaking to me because I defended two lesbians with that same reasoning. No big loss to me because this particular fellow isn't too reluctant to exclaim how he hates fags.

Nevertheless, I see your point. This is often the approach that some who profess to be Christians take and it is as far removed from what Jesus would have done as you can get IMHO.

ratbastid · 11-22-2006, 04:03 PM

I'm frequently staggered by the differences between what Christ did and what some Christians do.

I don't know that I'd blame that particular minister, though. It could be that he just twigged that he was being put on and didn't want to participate any more.

I saw Baron Cohen interview a catholic priest as Ali G--the guy was in the whole collar and gown getup. He asked him "Do you have any childrens? No? Is that because you wear a connie, or are you shooting blanks?"

The priest looked at him for a long second and said, "This interview is over." He clearly knew he was being made fun of.

Willravel · 11-22-2006, 04:04 PM

I couldn't agree more. I wish people would follow Jesus instead of Christianity. Or at least figure out there is a huge difference between the teachings of Jesus Christ and the dogmatic propoganda and mind control put out by Christianity as a whole.

I've had this discussion with my dad, a Lutheran pastor, a few times. He said he understood my point, but politely asked that I not bring prostitues to dinner. I said that I couldn't make any promises.

Lizra · 11-22-2006, 08:59 PM

Better start wearing the WWJD bracelets again!

soccerchamp76 · 11-30-2006, 10:09 PM

Another ironic point made by a movie was in "Dogma". If anyone has seen it, it makes fun of the Catholic Church a lot. The point made was that [an angel talking] God hates organized religion b/c it has taken the focus off of the true meaning of religion and focusing on well, the dogmatic practices of each particular sect.

josie · 12-26-2006, 06:34 AM

I saw the movie and found it really funny too. My impression of that scene was that the minister wanted to remove himself from the situation because he was afraid of repercussions if it was to get out that he'd been at a dinner with a prostitute. A true Christian would have been uninterested in the politics and would have wanted to help the woman, or at least try to preserve her feelings and sense of dignity and respect as a human being.

That whole scene reeked of hypocricy on the part of all the people involved. The minister sat there and allowed his wife to be insulted without saying anything or leaving. It was obvious that she was hurt by Borat's comment about her lack of appeal, but he stayed there and let her be humiliated- probably because the hosts were big contributors to his church or something.
I also think there was a class/racial aspect to their reaction to the prostitute. Anyone who is familiar with those type of people would know that no matter how supposedly "christian" they are- that does not extend to having certain types of people from backgrounds different than their own, as guests in their home or eating at their dinner table.

Redjake · 12-26-2006, 08:43 AM

I haven't seen the movie, but agree with the "revelation" you are speaking of. A lot of Christians I know do the usual "party with sin 24/7 the entire week" and then "go to Church on Sunday to cleanse" and start the whole process over. They can cuss, be racist, make fun of people, be ignorant, and just be all out MEAN to people, and then go to Church on Sunday. How can they even step foot into a church after doing that. Sure, Jesus died for everyone's sins, but he didn't die so you can take the week off until Sunday your entire life. That's why I don't like organized religion. Or one of the reasons.

kaptain_kwanza · 01-08-2007, 10:22 PM

DOES IT EVER OCCUR TO ANYONE THAT WE ARE NOT PERFECT, WHERE AS JESUS WAS?!?! everyone likes to leave that fact out when they try to compare a normal, fallable human being to the Son of God. just remember next time when you see a christian do something completely opposite of what Christ would have done; they are only human.

josie · 01-09-2007, 04:55 AM

What I object to is Christians who adopt attitudes which are directly opposed to what Christ taught and consistently and arrogantly misrepresent the teachings of Christ to the rest of the world in that way, thus giving Christianity a bad name.

I know everyone makes mistakes and has slip ups in terms of behavior. I'm not talking about that. I don't know if you saw this movie, but the scene that I was referring to involved people who made a point of the fact that they were Christian, but who acted in such a way that it was obvious it was their practice to treat others they deemed less worthy as if they'd never heard of three of the most basic tenets of Christian faith:

1) Judge not, lest ye be judged
2) Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you
3) Love your neighbor as yourself.

I have nothing against Christians or Christianity. In fact, when it's practiced as Jesus taught it should be practiced, I'm all for it.

Bill O'Rights · 01-09-2007, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaptain_kwanza

DOES IT EVER OCCUR TO ANYONE THAT WE ARE NOT PERFECT, WHERE AS JESUS WAS?!?! everyone likes to leave that fact out when they try to compare a normal, fallable human being to the Son of God. just remember next time when you see a christian do something completely opposite of what Christ would have done; they are only human.

I think, kaptain, that the point is not the fact that your everyday garden variety Christian cannot walk on water. (Except in New Jersey) Or that they cannot turn water into wine. The point, I believe, is that many self-proclaimed "Christians" operate in a manner that is completely contrary to the teachings of Christ.
Are we fallible? Certainly yes. Do we/will we slip? Most definitely. These things are given. What is being brought into play here is the everyday actions and attitudes of those that profess to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

But, then again...what do I know? I am an Atheist.

pai mei · 01-09-2007, 07:41 AM

Quote:

When Bankei held his seclusion-weeks of meditation, pupils from many parts of Japan came to attend. During one of these gatherings a pupil was caught stealing. The matter was reported to Bankei with the request that the culprit be expelled. Bankei ignored the case.

Later the pupil was caught in a similar act, and again bankei disregarded the matter. this angered the other pupils, who drew up a petition asking for the dismissal of the thief, stating that otherwise they woudl leave in a body.

When bankei had read the petition he called everyone before him. "You are wise brothers," he told them. "You know what is right and what is not right. You may somewhere else to study if ou wish, but this poor brother does not even know right from wrong. Who will teach him if I do not? I am going to keep him here even if all the rest of you leave."

A torrent of tears cleansed the face of the brother who had stolen. All desire to steal had vanished.

This shows that "the sick need the healing more than the healthy", good example from "Borat"

Here is a story about temptation :

Quote:

Tanzan and Ekido were once traveling together down a muddy road. A heavy rain was still falling.

Coming around a bend, they met a lovely girl in a silk kimono and sash, unable to cross the intersection.

"Come on, girl" said Tanzan at once. Lifting her in his arms, he carried her over the mud.

Ekido did not speak again until that night when they reached a lodging temple. Then he no longer could restrain himself. "We monks don't go near females," he told Tanzan, "especially not young and lovely ones. It is dangerous. Why did you do that?"

"I left the girl there," said Tanzan. "Are you still carrying her?"

More stories here http://www.ashidakim.com/zenkoans/zenindex.html , sorry for repeating myself with the Zen thing

Xell101 · 01-09-2007, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaptain_kwanza

DOES IT EVER OCCUR TO ANYONE THAT WE ARE NOT PERFECT, WHERE AS JESUS WAS?!?! everyone likes to leave that fact out when they try to compare a normal, fallable human being to the Son of God. just remember next time when you see a christian do something completely opposite of what Christ would have done; they are only human.

Imperfection is not Carte Blanche. Besides, you're side stepping the issue. We're not pointing out Christians aren't perfect as was Jesus so hey hey guys, whoa! It's that the teaching of Jesus run contrary to, I'd say, the bulk of what is done in his name, quite deliberately so.

SirLance · 01-09-2007, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke 7:36-48

36Now one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, so he went to the Pharisee's house and reclined at the table. 37When a woman who had lived a sinful life in that town learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee's house, she brought an alabaster jar of perfume, 38and as she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them.
39When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, "If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is—that she is a sinner."

40Jesus answered him, "Simon, I have something to tell you."
"Tell me, teacher," he said.

41"Two men owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. 42Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he canceled the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?"

43Simon replied, "I suppose the one who had the bigger debt canceled."
"You have judged correctly," Jesus said.

44Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. 46You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. 47Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little."

48Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

So not only would Jesus handle it differently, he DID handle it differently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaptain_kwanza

DOES IT EVER OCCUR TO ANYONE THAT WE ARE NOT PERFECT, WHERE AS JESUS WAS?!?!

Let's not forget that the guy were talking about presents himself as Christ's representative. See previous post as to what Jesus did in a similar situation.

Ourcrazymodern? · 01-17-2007, 06:47 PM

Xians who do not love are not Xians. Xians who take their beliefs spoon-fed might be a little dim. Jesus wasn't characterized as a god until quite a long time after he died...and wasn't it a roman emperor who instigated that?

Shadow_fire · 01-25-2007, 03:44 PM

If more Christian's were to act like Christ I might be able to stand being around more of them than I am able to. A friend of mine is the only Christian I know who I can stand being around because thats exactly how he acts.

mo42 · 01-25-2007, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ourcrazymodern?

Xians who do not love are not Xians. Xians who take their beliefs spoon-fed might be a little dim. Jesus wasn't characterized as a god until quite a long time after he died...and wasn't it a roman emperor who instigated that?

I agree- a Christian who does not love is not truly a Christian. It is my personal philosophy that accepting Christ means that you accept his teachings, not just believe that there was once a man names Jesus who was the Son of God and he died for our sins and that anyone who believes that gets into Heaven. In that way, even those who have never been exposed to Christianity (like some Pacific Islanders, or Amazon tribesmen) get their fair shot.

As for a Roman emporer instigating the belief that Jesus was God, that's only moderately close to the case. For the first 300 or so years after Jesus' crucifixion, there were two main competing views as to the nature of Christ. One was that he was the same as God, God's form on Earth, so to speak, and another view that he was merely of similar substance to God but not His equal.

In 325 A.D. the First Council of Nicaea convened (at the behest of Emperor Constantine) and all the Bishops of the Church gathered together to decide which viewpoint was correct, and to codify the beliefs of the Christian Church, a summary of which can be found in the Nicene Creed, named after the Council that wrote it.

As far as the Borat/Christian hypocrisy thing goes, I can't say I blame them for asking Borat to leave. Such a guest was clearly out of place, and he had already been quite rude to them. Sure, in theory a good Christian should be all-forgiving and try to bear with it, but in practice, people only have so much patience.

11-22-2006, 03:29 PM	#1 (permalink)
amire Crazy	Interesting Revelation about Religion brought on by "Borat" NOTE: If you have not seen the new movie Borat and don't wish for part of it to be spoiled, please don't read past this note. I recently went to watch Borat, and I found it to be very funny. But the movie was also enlightening, sometimes on purpose, and sometimes accidentally. <SPOILER> One scene that really opened my eyes to how modern religion works was the scene where Borat eats dinner with a group of influential Southerners. If you'll recall, Borat invites a prostitute over to their house as a guest to eat with him. The most interesting thing about the encounter is that, as SOON as the prostitute arrives, the minister that was also eating with the group excuses himself from the table in disgust and leaves. The group then calls the cops. It occurred to me that this is COMPLETELY the opposite of how Christ would have handled the situation. Recall that he hung out with tax collectors, lepers, and prostitutes! He loved them and tried to teach them how to be happier. He did not condemn them. Does anyone else agree that this minister's actions were completely contrary to what Christ would have done? I wonder what else modern religious leaders are doing that Christ would do differently. Now, I know that the movie probably isn't a great reflection on modern religion. I'm sure there are some pastors out there that would have sat with the prostitute. And I also recognize that Borat's entire purpose was to get people angry. But it doesn't excuse the actions of a minister who supposedly knows how Christ acted. I was interested in seeing what everyone else thought. Thanks! </SPOILER>

11-22-2006, 08:59 PM	#5 (permalink)
Lizra Insane Location: rural Indiana	Better start wearing the WWJD bracelets again! __________________ Happy atheist

11-30-2006, 10:09 PM	#6 (permalink)
soccerchamp76 Go Cardinals Location: St. Louis/Cincinnati	Another ironic point made by a movie was in "Dogma". If anyone has seen it, it makes fun of the Catholic Church a lot. The point made was that [an angel talking] God hates organized religion b/c it has taken the focus off of the true meaning of religion and focusing on well, the dogmatic practices of each particular sect. __________________ Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department. Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

12-26-2006, 08:43 AM	#8 (permalink)
Redjake I'm a family man - I run a family business. Location: Wilson, NC	I haven't seen the movie, but agree with the "revelation" you are speaking of. A lot of Christians I know do the usual "party with sin 24/7 the entire week" and then "go to Church on Sunday to cleanse" and start the whole process over. They can cuss, be racist, make fun of people, be ignorant, and just be all out MEAN to people, and then go to Church on Sunday. How can they even step foot into a church after doing that. Sure, Jesus died for everyone's sins, but he didn't die so you can take the week off until Sunday your entire life. That's why I don't like organized religion. Or one of the reasons. __________________ Off the record, on the q.t., and very hush-hush.

01-17-2007, 06:47 PM	#15 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	Xians who do not love are not Xians. Xians who take their beliefs spoon-fed might be a little dim. Jesus wasn't characterized as a god until quite a long time after he died...and wasn't it a roman emperor who instigated that? __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

11-22-2006, 04:03 PM	#3 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	I'm frequently staggered by the differences between what Christ did and what some Christians do. I don't know that I'd blame that particular minister, though. It could be that he just twigged that he was being put on and didn't want to participate any more. I saw Baron Cohen interview a catholic priest as Ali G--the guy was in the whole collar and gown getup. He asked him "Do you have any childrens? No? Is that because you wear a connie, or are you shooting blanks?" The priest looked at him for a long second and said, "This interview is over." He clearly knew he was being made fun of.

11-22-2006, 04:04 PM	#4 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	I couldn't agree more. I wish people would follow Jesus instead of Christianity. Or at least figure out there is a huge difference between the teachings of Jesus Christ and the dogmatic propoganda and mind control put out by Christianity as a whole. I've had this discussion with my dad, a Lutheran pastor, a few times. He said he understood my point, but politely asked that I not bring prostitues to dinner. I said that I couldn't make any promises.

12-26-2006, 06:34 AM	#7 (permalink)
josie Upright Location: UK	I saw the movie and found it really funny too. My impression of that scene was that the minister wanted to remove himself from the situation because he was afraid of repercussions if it was to get out that he'd been at a dinner with a prostitute. A true Christian would have been uninterested in the politics and would have wanted to help the woman, or at least try to preserve her feelings and sense of dignity and respect as a human being. That whole scene reeked of hypocricy on the part of all the people involved. The minister sat there and allowed his wife to be insulted without saying anything or leaving. It was obvious that she was hurt by Borat's comment about her lack of appeal, but he stayed there and let her be humiliated- probably because the hosts were big contributors to his church or something. I also think there was a class/racial aspect to their reaction to the prostitute. Anyone who is familiar with those type of people would know that no matter how supposedly "christian" they are- that does not extend to having certain types of people from backgrounds different than their own, as guests in their home or eating at their dinner table.

01-08-2007, 10:22 PM	#9 (permalink)
kaptain_kwanza Upright Location: The Wick	DOES IT EVER OCCUR TO ANYONE THAT WE ARE NOT PERFECT, WHERE AS JESUS WAS?!?! everyone likes to leave that fact out when they try to compare a normal, fallable human being to the Son of God. just remember next time when you see a christian do something completely opposite of what Christ would have done; they are only human.

01-09-2007, 04:55 AM	#10 (permalink)
josie Upright Location: UK	What I object to is Christians who adopt attitudes which are directly opposed to what Christ taught and consistently and arrogantly misrepresent the teachings of Christ to the rest of the world in that way, thus giving Christianity a bad name. I know everyone makes mistakes and has slip ups in terms of behavior. I'm not talking about that. I don't know if you saw this movie, but the scene that I was referring to involved people who made a point of the fact that they were Christian, but who acted in such a way that it was obvious it was their practice to treat others they deemed less worthy as if they'd never heard of three of the most basic tenets of Christian faith: 1) Judge not, lest ye be judged 2) Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you 3) Love your neighbor as yourself. I have nothing against Christians or Christianity. In fact, when it's practiced as Jesus taught it should be practiced, I'm all for it.

01-25-2007, 03:44 PM	#16 (permalink)
Shadow_fire Crazy Location: Elora	If more Christian's were to act like Christ I might be able to stand being around more of them than I am able to. A friend of mine is the only Christian I know who I can stand being around because thats exactly how he acts.