FailedEagle

The poll didn't work.

The options are supposed to be:

Billions of years ago
6000 years ago

My buddy and I are in a current debate. I'm not going to say which side I am on for a week. Then I'd be excited to discuss and debate the issue. Please be honest and vote.

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CSflim

There is no honest debate to be had here. The universe is approximately 15 billion years old.

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Charlatan

Now with spicy poll flavour!


By the way, billions of years.

I agree, there is nothing to debate here.

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captobvious

Billions of years.

I also agree that there's nothing to debate here.

Willravel

As far as I know, it's 23 years, 6 days, 11 hours, and about 20 minutes old.

One more vote for billions. I see no scientific evidence to support the 6000 year theory. I see theological evidence, but that doesn't count.

Dilbert1234567

[sarcasm]
pfft you guys are just idiots... i mean look at the evidence... bible contains ALL truth...[/sarcasm]



sorry, no debate, 15 bill

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cyrnel

If it's 6000 years then a bunch of dastardly and coordinated tricks have been played on us. Otherwise it's beelions and beelions of years.

Or this could all be a dream.

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There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

ubertuber

I'm gonna go with the un-included option: all of it.

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MageB420666

As far as i'm concerned, we don't know how old the universe is, we just know how long its been since the big bang.... I'm mean, all matter existed before the big bang, it was just really, really small. Right?

But in the interest of not threadjacking, I voted for 15 billion, because the universe is at least that old.

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captobvious

I'd agree that the choices on this poll are rather limited. To me, it seems like the science vs. religion debate in disguise. As I mentioned before, I voted for 15 billion, but I wouldn't be surprised if that number isn't completely accurate. I'd be willing to bet my life that it's way more accurate than 6000 years though.

I chose billions of years because the evidence to support comes from a field that is inherently self-correcting. If scientists discover that they are wrong in the future, they will correct it or at least calculate a closer approximation. The 6000 years figure comes from a field that claims to already know the truth, which makes it hard to admit that its wrong.

Bill O'Rights

And that, folks...is why he's Captain Obvious. (Any relation to Obviousman, of Non Sequitor fame?)

Although...I don't see much there to disguise it. Nor do I see anyone debating it. Not that there's much there to debate...but still...it's fun to watch.

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"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

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Mantus

Wow...this forum is so dead

Which makes me sad cuz it's where I broke out into the TFP.

roadkill

I'm for the billions of years.

Pacifier

13,7 billion years
no debate here.

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"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death
— Albert Einstein

Jinn

This isn't science vs. religion. It's pretty clear - billions. I'm a little scared, however.. for the two people who voted for 6000. I'd ask them to pipe up, but I doubt they will.

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"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

captobvious

If it's not science vs. religion, then what do you think the debate is over?

flstf

Time is relative. I guess the latest thinking is that the universe is as old as it takes Earth to circle our Sun approximately 14 billion times at it's current rate.

frogza

It came into being on a Thursday in June at about 3:30 pm Mountain Standard Time. Beyond that we can only guess that is billions of years old.

streak_56

I would say about Infinite... but the closest thing was billions.

NoSoup

I'll vote for billions as well...

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longbough

The universe began exactly 2 seconds ago ... I can't prove it but you can't disprove it, either.

Bill O'Rights

Sure I can.
The universe began on August 4, 1962...since, as we all know, the universe revolves around...me.

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"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

John Henry

The universe is and can only be 600 yrs old and anybody who says it is older is a filthy heretic and will burn in the fiery pits of Hell!

...This is Tilted Nonsense isn't it?

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Infinite_Loser

No one knows how old the universe is. All we have are educated guesses. But, then again, I don't really care how old it is.

Slightly off-topic, but I don't think the Bible says the universe is 6,000 years old. In fact, it doesn't even touch on the subject.

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frogza

You are right. In fact the Bible says something to effect that God has always been around, that would suggest that the universe has been around forever.

SSJTWIZTA

gatta go for the billions

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CSflim

Ah. It doesn't say it straight out, but it can be worked out, just as you can prove that pi equals three.

Apparently, you can take all the people that lived from Adam right down to the time of Jesus and then add up their ages, resulting in around 4000 years. This is where the 6000 year figure comes from I believe.

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longbough

The universe all began with Kevin Bacon.

It has been proven many times over.

hotzot

I thought the universe started with 6 degrees separation from Kevin Bacon? MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmm Bacon....

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asaris

CSFlim -- Yes, but that assumes that they didn't skip any generations. From what I've heard, the hebrew used in these genealogical sequences can make it either father - son or father -descendant. And, of course, that only works if the universe was created in six days. Theologians have been interpreting Genesis one allegorically at least since St. Thomas, so why can't we?

Oh, and probably billions of years.

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"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

CSflim

Like I said, the universe is billions of years old. I was just explaining where the 6000 years figure comes from.

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asaris

Yeah, I just thought I'd explain how you could believe in the Bible as scripture, and still believe that the universe is very, very old.

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"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

nikkiana

Honestly, I think either is quite possible. Therfore, I can't really vote because I don't have a strong inkling one way or another.

I don't think the answer really matters either. It's just another thing to get into a pissing match over. It requires just as much faith to believe that either the earth is billions of years or 6000 old.

So, I say, grow up and go feed some hungry people.

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nikkiana

Pacifier

Sorry, but that is bollocks.
There are multiple evidence that the universe is billions of years old.
There is no evidence that the earth is 6000 years old.

Believing that the earth is 6000 years old is not faith, it is ignorance.

__________________
"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death
— Albert Einstein

Ch'i

Prove it.

There is... it's just not very good evidence

captobvious

With our current knowledge, we don't have a way to absolutely prove the age of the universe, so yes it is possible that either one of the estimates could be correct. However, I would say that it takes way more faith to believe in 6000 years than billions of years, because the billions of years estimate is based on the current state of our knowledge.

To put things into perspective, the 6000 years estimate comes from a time when we still thought that the earth was flat. We've made quite a few advances since then. If you're interested, this Wikipedia entry about the age of the universe does a good job of explaining our current best estimate of the age of the universe from an empircal point of view.

asaris

No, actually, we've known the earth was round far longer than we've thought it was 6000 years old.

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"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

Ch'i

It's true. Though carbon dating, and similar processes, can be called into question, we can reasonably say that the Earth is at least a little older than 6,000 years. Erosion, ice cores, sedimentary rock, the list goes on.
The bottom line is that there is much more actual evidence in support of the earth being billions of years old, than the circumstantial evidence provided by creationism, and other religous bases. Not very much room for discussion...